Interesting thread. I must state from the start that we are not swingers, but I have for years envied them. I also have to state that most women I think do feel like Dave's wife, they cannot dissociate sex and love and that it is easier for men in general to do so. Though I agree with just about everything that has been stated here, it is a giant step to bridge from seeing sex as purely an expression of love to viewing it as one would a game of mixed doubles. I think this is one reason I envie you guys, because this is a step I don't think my wife is capable of making. If more women were able to, I think we sure would have a lot more swingers out there.