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LadyCleo

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About LadyCleo

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    F half of married couple
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    Oregon

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  1. That sounds great! This is the 1st time we have ever dealt with drama in the lifestyle. Thank for the advice. My husband and I are goingto take all of this wonderful advice and run! LC
  2. Thank you all for telling me what I already knew was the answer. Oh, and extra kudos to you for reading it all! (kiss) I think that we put up with a lot because there are so few couples our age in our community but you all are right, we need to run away from this couple. How should we handle seeing them at our local club tho? LC
  3. Buckle your seatbelts because this will be a long drive! A little more than a year ago, we met this couple; we'll call them Bill and Hillary. We met a married woman, who I'll call Monica (husband = Mark). Both of these couples have profiles on SLS. I chatted quite a bit with Bill. Bill introduced me to Monica. We chatted a bit as well. Bill invited us out to a bar to meet and socialize but we could never get our schedules straight as we all have kids. A couple of months after chatting with him for the 1st time, I find out that Bill is sleeping with Monica and neither Hillary nor Mark knows about it. Red flag to me. I asked why their spouses knew nothing of their affair. I can not understand why someone in the lifestyle would choose to cheat. But I digress; Bill told me that Hillary was slow to come around. I told him that you really should go at her pace. Monica told me that Mark doesn't like to meet new people and wants to keep it to their small circle. I told her I thought that was weird. I don't have a problem with someone keeping it small but when you don't know anyone, to not want to meet anyone else, what does that say? I became friends (as best as you can just online) with Monica. She told me how she was ready to get a divorce. I was trying to be supportive. We had a lot in common otherwise, kids same age, same vertical hobbies etc. We finally were able to meet last October or November. We went to a bar and there were 7-10 other swinging couples there. By this time, the affair was over or close to over. Bill and Hillary were there. Monica was there without Mark. Several of us were invited back to one of the other couples homes to play. My husband went upstairs to join Bill, Hillary, and Monica, while I stayed downstairs. Perhaps, 45 minutes later, Bill, Hillary and Monica run out without even saying goodbye. Hillary had quite a bit to drink, too much if you ask me. The way they left really was rude and it changed the mood of the house, so we left immediately after. When questioned about it the next day, Bill said that Hillary was upset because she was not interested in playing with the host, who was downstairs chatting with me, and needed to leave at that very moment. Ok. A couple of months later, we got together with Bill, Hillary, Monica, Mark, and another couple to go bowling. We had a good time. From there, we went back to Monica and Mark's home to play. It was really uncomfortable because it was a room of newbies who thought it was a good idea to play spin the bottle. :rollseyes We did a lot of 2-minute separation stuff. I put a stop to it because I am not bi and the people who were left behind in the living room we suggesting that we (the gals) play. I told them that I was uncomfortable playing without my husband within reach. The lights dimmed and we got busy. Again, Hillary was really drunk. My husband played with her and she was not verbally responsive to his touch but had enough of a sexual response to not be labeled a cold fish...or is it a dead fish...can't remember. During the following week, there was some drama online about the male half of the other couple not being attractive to the ladies. I told them that they should just tell him no. No still means no. But it was a big to do and frankly I was irritated at the childishness that was going on. I told them that if they can't tell him no, then don't invite him. Also, during that week, Bill told me and Monica that he did not want to kiss or be kissed because it was too personal for him. I told him that was ok with me and thanked him for sharing his boundary. We also discussed Hillary's interest in my husband. It was very nice to find someone that was interested in him that he also was interested in. The next weekend, we got together at Monica and Mark's house to play without the "offending" couple. When we arrived, the drinking had been going on for at least a couple of hours. Hillary kept calling herself the drunk girl and Bill said some disparaging remarks to her. It was becoming obvious that she needed to be drunk to do it and he is a control freak. Monica was broken, so she was just a giver that night. Before we sat down to play a sexy board game, I suggested that we talk about each couple's boundaries. That way there would be no uncomfortable parts of the night. The other 2 couples balked at the conversation making it a dead point. I know as you are reading this, you are wondering, WHY did you keep seeing these people? Cuz, I'm asking myself the very same thing right now. For a little background, we are all under 30 and in our community, swingers under 30 are an extreme rarity. We paired off in the living room, my husband and Hillary (because she had no interest in Mark), me and Mark and Bill and Monica. There were a couple of times that Mark tried to enter me without a condom, so I stopped playing with him. It didn't seem at the time, to be an overly aggressive thing, just that he was so excited that he couldn't get his shit straight. I brushed it off. My husband was using my toy on Hillary. His arm was really tired and she had not finished yet. I suggested to Mark that he tag my hubby out. He did. Mark and Hillary played for a while after that. The next day online, Bill IM's me to say that we will not be getting together with you anymore if Monica and Mark are there. What it boiled down to was that Hillary said that Mark went further than she wanted to go. I asked Bill if she told Mark no. He said she shifted her body and he spread her legs and kept going. And she let him. This got back to Monica and Mark, with Mark feeling devastated because he was accused of rape when he was in high school. It got really ugly. Unfortunately, Bill and Hillary are not open people. You cannot get a straight answer from either of them. I told Bill that Hillary needs to learn to say no. He said she's afraid of what others will think about her. I told him, does she really care what someone who forces her thinks? We would support her. But I don't think that is what really happened because a couple of days later, Hillary was over it and wanted to get together again. In hindsight, it's one of 2 things: 1. She is so submissive that she played with Mark and did not say no (he's not a mind reader), Bill asked her how it was, she commented to him that she was a little uncomfortable and he blew it all out of proportion making it to more than it ever was and she finally set him straight or 2. She changed her position on the subject because of pressure from Bill because he still wanted to play with us and Monica. Still not sure. Also, he complained that Monica kissed him after he made it clear that he didn’t want to be kissed. She maintains that he kissed her so she kissed him back. Who knows who did what. In the ensuing weeks, I spend a lot of time instant messaging with Bill and Monica. Mark and Hillary do not get online much. Monica tells be about what happened between them while they were having their affair. She tells me that he said that he and Hillary were getting a divorce and he was moving back to another state. He went so far to tell her what his flight number and time was. But he didn’t go. He also started flirting with one of Monica’s co-workers. They went out on a date and he offered to drive her home. He found her house without her telling him where she lived. It creeped her out. She assumed that he had been stalking her. Fast forward to 2 months ago, there is a new club in town that caters to couples only. It’s quite a nice place to go. We suggested they go out there sometime. We made plans to meet there. The whole time they were there, Hillary looked miserable. She drank a lot as usual. She sat on the couch. My husband asked her to play and they went into a playroom and played. Then she came back out and sat on the couch looking miserable. It was noticeable to the many others that went to that party. But it wasn’t just Hillary that was miserable. Bill was too. He commented several times about the ladies that he was interested in and I kept encouraging him to go for it but he said all he wanted to do was play with me. I wasn’t interested. He had gone from being fun and confident to very needy. We had to leave early because of a baby sitting arrangement. I heard from some of our other friends that were there that she didn’t leave the couch until they left and he didn’t leave the bar. The following weekend, we went to a social at a bar. We met Bill and Hillary for dinner beforehand. It was Hillary’s birthday so my husband told our server who brought Hillary dessert and sang to her. Hillary looked mighty uncomfortable and had protested about being sung to. We thought that it was a playful protest, but it really bothered her. We went to the social in 2 cars. We were already there when they arrived and the tension in their car looked so thick, you could cut it with a knife. They held up the wall at the social, not chatting with anyone and abruptly left about 2 hours later without saying goodbye. Soon after they leave, I get a call from him asking if we would take Hillary home if he brought her out to us at the club. I told him I would. After I got off the phone call, my husband and I both shook our heads and said that is definitely not the way to handle their situation. We didn’t want her to come out without him especially considering the circumstances. My husband and I had spent a great deal of time talking about Bill and Hillary. The main topic was that they didn’t seem to play with anyone but us. We didn’t want to become their crutch. We wanted them to be able to branch out and meet others. During that next week, there was a get together at a local comedy club. We could not make it but Bill and Hillary did. Apparently, they had a great time. Things were starting to look up for them. They were coming out of their shell. That weekend, we went to the new club. It was Bill’s birthday. He spent the whole night with a sour look on his face. Hillary actually got her butt off the couch. They took Monica with them to the club without Mark because he was out of town. Monica spent the whole night alone. I felt so bad for her, I kept checking on her. Bill and Hillary were incredibly rude. They took Monica as their guest and left her hanging. During the next week, I Imed with Bill and Monica. Monica said that they invited her to go to the club in 2 weeks with them. I asked her why. Why would they invite her and why would she want to go. It was obvious they weren’t taking her there to play with her. They spent absolutely no time with her. What was she gaining from being there? She said that we both know that they are not upfront about what they want. I told her that if it was me, I would straight-out ask them what their intentions are. That way, she knows. Bill and I went to a swingers get together at a bar 2 weeks in a row without our spouses. They both knew we were going. I would have gone without Bill but it was more fun to have someone I knew to talk to. We had a really good time. During the week, I IM Bill and ask how their weekend was, how Hillary was doing etc. Bill got super irritated with me for being so personal. I told him I wasn’t asking because I wanted to have sex with her or because my husband wanted to have sex with her, just because I care that someone is having a bad time. He was an asshole to me and I got off line. Come to find out, he said that he was upset that several weeks ago, my husband took his wife to a play area without him the 1st time we went to the club together. He said that from now on, they only play together. I told him that was fine. I was glad that he told me. Otherwise, we would never know. We aren’t mind readers. I told him to put himself into my shoes. He said he can’t because he doesn’t care that much. Asshole. I told him that I figure that now that they have new swinger friends, I guess that they have no need for us anymore and he’s pushing my buttons to piss me off enough to avoid them. I think that he was starting to feel something for me and perhaps being an asshole is his way of backing off. It is definitely reminiscent of how he treated Monica after they stopped seeing each other privately. So, this past Saturday, I get a short IM from him making sure we were bringing alcohol to replace some that we drank a couple of weekends before. I said yes and he logged off. We are at the club and Bill, Hillary and Monica walk in. I caught a glimpse of them as I was walking downstairs. They got the tour and came downstairs. They stood not more than 2 feet away from me and neither of them said anything to me. Cold shoulder. Monica said hi. I thought, GREAT. I spent most of my time that night avoiding them as I just wanted to avoid drama. So, now, I’m feeling uncomfortable. They are friends with the people that we are friends with. They are seeing the nice Bill and Hillary not the asshole that he’s being to us. And if I say anything, I’m causing drama. I don’t want that. I think that he doesn’t want to play with me anymore…that is perfectly ok with me because all he does is piss me off. But, I think that Hillary is still interested in playing with my husband but Bill has put his foot down and made it impossible to do so. Plus, I saw Bill playing with someone else at the club while his wife was upstairs. So much for only playing together. So, I guess my question is twofold, what the hell am I doing? Why can’t I stop worrying about this and have a good time? Why do I keep going back for more? I know that he will show his true colors to our friends sooner or later. How do I cope with it b4 they figure it out? Bill and Hillary are the new meat, so everyone is interested in meeting them. Thanks for reading this.
  4. I agree with the above post suggesting role playing with your wife. I am not and have never been shy. So, if my advice doesn't work, I'm sorry. But, sometimes you have to lie to yourself until you believe the lie and start acting as though the lie is true. What I mean by that is, tell yourself that you are having a good time. Tell yourself that you are desirable (even if you don't believe it) Pretend that you are an aggressive person. When she laughs at your terrible joke, ask her if she'd like to go play. Initiation sometimes take practice. What is the worst thing that could happen? She could say no. Then you move on. If you are kissing for 20 minutes, slide your fingers into her panties, if she moves your hand away, she telling you no. If she moans, you've done the right thing. When you can feel her wetness, remove her panties. If she grabs your erect penis, ask her for a condom. If she gives you one, she's telling you it's ok to have sex with her. DO IT! The more you live acting like an aggressor and an initiator, the easier it becomes. And you are right about lack of confidence being a total turn off. Until you really feel it. Fake it. Good luck to you!
  5. I had several sexual partners prior to this relationship. My husband, on the other hand, had not. In fact, I was his second partner. I don't think that promiscuity necessarily leads to swinging. I think that having an open mind leads people to swinging.
  6. Several weeks ago, my husband, two other couples and I went to a local bar to flirt and play pool. There was a lot of ass grabbing and a couple of stolen F2F kisses. We all had a great time. It was the type of flirting that singles might do...maybe a little bit more. Apparently, we got some looks and compliments about how fun we all looked. It was really too bad no one came up to introduce themselves rather than just having us for eye candy! LC BTW, to answer your question, I wouldn't have a problem with the F half of the other couple dancing or flirting with my husband. If someone saw it that you didn't want to, you could always blame it on having too much to drink...
  7. Dito We have had an experience from the other end. We met a great couple that was considerably less well off than us but we couldn't care less about their money or lackthereof. Unfortunately, it was an issue for them and they dropped out of the lifestyle...at least with us. I miss them. I wish them the best.
  8. To each his own. *WE* won't play with a couple that is in it just as voyeurs/exhibitionists. We don't have a problem with people who feel that way. If you think you are a swinger, then you are. We just are looking for something more.
  9. There's no way to determine that he was a virgin. Who's to say that he isn't selling it to everybody?
  10. First thing, please suggest strongly that your wife read this thread. I think that you have made yourself perfectly clear. It hurts you when she is out with people other than you, particularly THIS man who, it seems, is trying to carry on a romantic relationship that steps over your boundaries. For your wife to argue that you are being controlling sounds to me that she is trying to shift the blame for your predicament squarely onto you rather than accepting her share of the blame. I agree with the above poster who suggested that it is indeed your WIFE that is controlling in this relationship at this time. It sounds like if you push the situation, she will leave. But, do you really want her to stay if she shows such little regard for your feelings? She obviously has more invested in the relationship with this other man than she is letting on. It needs to stop and it needs to stop NOW! There is never any sex that is better than the relationship between a husband and a wife. If she'd rather be the 3rd wheel in their marriage than be a wife to you, or perhaps break up their marriage as well, you are just going to have to let her. Cut your losses and heal yourself. Only you can make sure your best interests are met. Perhaps, I am underestimating your wife. Perhaps she will come to her senses. Perhaps not. You need to STOP :slam" rationalizing this situation. You need to STOP head bang trying to "compromise" since you are the only one that seems to be compromising anything. Good luck to you. BTW, just curious, what part of OR are you? Please feel free to answer that question in an IM or private email. LC
  11. While I do agree with most of the posts here regarding the bad behavior of Ampussy, there is blame to be shared. Once Newbie couple realized they were over their heads, they should have opened their mouths and said something! They are adults. If they were too uncomfortable to stay, by all means, use the door. It was not Ampussy's responsibility to escort them somewhere else. Yes, it would have benn a WONDERFUL thing had they done so, but definately not a requirement and I wouldn't consider them a heel for not doing so. I also have to agree with Ampussy's statement that the wife of the newbie couple probably was not into him. BUT she needs to open her mouth and say so. I know how difficult it can be to say no or tell someone that you are not attracted to them because you feel a sense of obligation to a degree or do not want to hurt their feelings, but just be open and honest about how you feel. It doesn't do anyone any good to be strung along. But, that's just MY opinion...
  12. EBF, ever is a REALLY LONG TIME. I have cheated while in a relationship, but it was a long time ago. I learned my lesson and have not done it since. In fact, it was in a relationship previous to the one I am in currently. He cheated, I cheated, we divorced. I learned my lesson and remarried. I am tons happier now,even on the bad days,than I was on the great days of my previous marriage. Hope this helps, LC
  13. Only one complaint about the bevy of options, there wasn't a DEPENDS. My answers all depend on WHO... If it's 2 incredibly sexy men going for it, HELL YEAH! I am all into that. If it's 2 nasty fat, hairy, greasy baseball cap wearing guys missing teeth with mullets, then the answer is HELL NO. Actually, even most average looking guys would be a HELL NO too. I was watching MTV yesterday, they unveiled Danny's (Real World New Orleans) boyfriend who was blurred during the episode because he was a military man. DAMN...he's HOT!!!! And to watch those two men kiss made me want to jump inbetween them. As for F/F bisexuality, I'm not really into that either unless *I* am attracted to both women. That is quite rare as well. The difference is, I rarely find watching women to be disgusting but think that I might be more disgusted by men. Bias on my part? Yeah. Sorry. But that is not to say that I wouldn't find it hot to see my man involved in a trist with an oh so sexy Josh Duhmel (from Las Vegas on Monday nights at 9pm e/p on NBC) Or Danny and his man, for that matter... Have a good one! LC
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