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Tarnished Halo

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About Tarnished Halo

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  1. Julie, The benefits I see of swinging doesn't necessarily mean that we are having sex with others, and that is someplace that I could see as more of a possibility than full swap at this point. As I see it: 1. Communication. Not just talking to one another, but saying things in such a way that we are sharing who we are what we think and feel with someone who is going to not necessarily "like" what we are saying, but is willing to hear it, especially since there are few people out there who are going to make this possible. 2. Being close enough that there aren't any doubts as to our own importance in another's life. I heard somewhere that to be truly loved is the most valuable thing that human beings can experience. I want the closeness with my husband, but don't want to (right now that is), have to experience it over another woman's body. Can't we have that without the others, and if we can't, why NOT? Do you have to be a swinger to be close to your spouse? 3. Being able to be in a sexually charged atmosphere without being stupid about it. Admittedly, if I dressed like I could when going to a swingers club (and there are lots of people there who don't swing), at my local bar, everyone would judge me a whore. I think that a casual atmosphere would be refreshing even though there might be some overt sexual activity I sure wouldn't see at P.J's. I am feeling a bit defensive right now, so I am going to stop trying to justify, and relax to try to get my head straight. Flassh really upset me, and I do NOT want to be abusive OR defensive.
  2. Ok Alura, to answer your question specifically, I KNOW that other men are attracted to me, and I am fairly sure that they would treat me well, but I have no emotional connection to them, and would consider it just a matter of their hormones squeaking. It doesn't matter, and they don't matter. Not in a mean or cruel way, it just doesn't phase me when other men appear to be attracted to me. It's no sort of compliment, just a condition they happen to be temporarily in. I think that my husband would be pleased to have me enjoy iother men, and I also think that he knows in his heart that I love him and there wouldn't be too much danger (you never know, it COULD happen, but I wouldn't allow it) of me becoming involved with someone else. He knows my heart. I am still operating (although not as much), under the impression that it is the young(er) thin(ner) woman who he sees that he would like to experience. He has already said that he feels that I would nix any opportunity to be with someone who is "better" (see younger, etc) than me. He's somewhat right, but still a little off. At this point, why strive to make me feel inferior? I know that on a practical level, a man who is with a woman like that is not going to want me, so I am not sure that I really have to be concerned with a no vote on some little honey that he'd like to be with. As far as enjoying any encounter that I would have, I have to say that it would be difficult for me to relax any truly enjoy it. I would be more concerned with what he and she were doing, and couldn't disconnect enough to let them "play". That's a stupid term for it by the way. I guess that I am concerned that there isn't any way for us to be with someone else, because we are going to by very definition be with "Someone Else", and thereofre can't keep that connection. Or something silly like that. If anyone can (yes...here is a dare!) explain to me how you keep connected with your spouse while you are busy with someone else? How do you keep it in perspective? Are (the one you are with, the playmate so to speak) they interested in what THEIR spouse is doing, or concentrating on what's going on with themselves and you? What about when "they" are finished? I am NOT going to go fix them breakfast! This whole thing just seems so very complicated, how in the hell did you all figure it out? Alura, did that answer your question?
  3. Yes, he has mentioned that quite a bit. At first many many years ago, I thought that he was trying to "give me away", for lack of a better explanation. That he didn't care who fucked me, as long as he could watch. As far as me WANTING to get with someone else, I don't know. I do know there have only been a few men that I have even wondered about. I don't know if it's that I am picky, (I mean, at some point, you notice things about even the most attractive man that might not be just perfect.), not to mean that I am expecting perfection. NOT to be mean, but my husband is as far from perfect if that's what I was looking for, as I could get. After all, look at the mess we are in. If either of us were perfect, then wouldn't life be just rosy? I could prolly' be attracted to someone, but what I meant when I said that I hadn't cheated was to see someone that I JUST HAD TO HAVE sexually that is, and then gone after it. Personally, I think that if someone were to try to seduce me using a very personal approach rather than hey baby, I've got a cock for you, that I would be more inclined to stray, as it were. No I haven't cheated in either body or soul, and have no desire to. I think that if things were different I would be more inclined to at least check it out. One of the things that I am concerned about is that while's he's doing her, he is going to forget that I am there (until I pull his hair that is I guess that I figure that I should be the most important one here (of the females, I mean), not her. Her husband or boyfriend or whatever can and should be taking care of her, making sure that she is alright. I am hoping that he will see others opinions, and realize that perhaps he doesn't have it figured out, that there are workable ways to do something (like swing) without tearing your relationship apart, and to realize that some of my concerns are considered somewhat common, and or natural. Because we fought so much about this, and said really cruel and hateful things to one another, we both tend to remember the things that we said to hurt one another. For instance, in one argument, he said that the reason he wanted to swing so that he could fuck someone else, not me. Well...I KNOW he wants to swing so he can fuck someone else. Good grief! No kidding. Isn't that what swinging is all about? These arguments were NOT conducive to communication, and I am hoping that his posts and others will facilitate this. I guess that I am looking for the more romantic (shsshh...what a loon, romantic between my husband and ME not us and them) way to swing and not become mired down in the confusion of trying to keep our relationship straight while we are figuring out who's going to be fucking who, or is that whom? Tarnished.
  4. Julie, to answer your's and other's question, I don't believe that I would have been the one to bring the question up. I have never cheated on my husband. And given who I am I doubt that I ever would have. That simply isn't in my makeup. However, surprisingly, swinging is something that I think is "possible", with a lot more things that are resolved. I have tried to "imagine" looking at him while he is with someone else, but it hasn't been from a vantage point of US doing that, but simply him having the access to someone else. I understand (and am hearing that a lot more now that I am listening a bit more carefully), that he is bored with me. That doesn't make him bad, and it doesn't make me a moron either. I am beginning to understand (and disillusioned by it I suppose, if I am to tell the truth), that men get bored with their wives, and the prospect of having sex with someone else can be quite exciting for them. To have him "involved" with someone? ABSOLUTELY FREAKING NOT. It's one thing for him to want to fuck someone. It's a way different thing for him to be involved in the context that we are leaning toward polymory. THAT I WILL NOT BE INVOLVED IN AT ALL NO WAY NO HOW. I had stated that it might be possible, if we could clear some things up between us. I still have and simply don't know how to separate sex from love, on an EMOTIONAL basis. Please note this. I know and realize that on the common level, or call it the intellectual level, that when he is with someone else, that he is NOT making love to her. I do know that. I just don't know how to get my head around it. For awhile, when I was going through a depression about this, I had decided (ever notice how we make decisions when we are really down?) that love was a four letter word and it sure didn't begin with "L". I am not sure I know how to love him and to let him be with someone else, to fuck her brains out while he's cooing at me all the time I love you sweetie! How does she feel when he's doing that (I mean if he was doing that?) These are things that I just don't know, don't understand and no one seems to be able to answer my questions. It's almost like he has said to me "I love you so much, I am going to fuck someone else, just to prove it to you." I know that's a little extreme, but I am feeling a little down today. Last night when I went to bed, I thought about Julie's question to me. Did I want him to be involved sexually with someone else, and did I want to be involved sexually with another. I found it a tad depressing that we have so much energy into trying to find someone else to be with sexually to make the one that we are with either more exciting, or something. Oh well. For those reading this, my husband has joined the board. NOT as a he said, or she said situation. I think he REALLY needs to be in touch with people who are living the life that he wants, and they can help him with their insights. Swinging doesn't come with a manual, (trust me on this, I would have found it online. There may be some books out there, but I live in a small town, and no credit card for online shopping. Most of the "instructions" that you do read are somewhat generic and don't really give you an idea of what swinging might mean to YOU personally! I have encouraged him to read the getting started articles, and to overlook the really hard core stuff (no offense to those this applies too, but some of you are nasty about it, especially to a beginner. ugh.) I am looking forward to him hearing opinions other than his or my own, and hope this opens dialogue between us. Thanks! Tarnished.
  5. I do apologize to those who seem confused by me. I don't think that our relationship has been "fucked" up, he does. He takes responsibility for the mistakes that he has made and some of the decisions that have led us to this point in our lives, as have I. I have stated before that I was "miffed" that he would even consider it, but that was in the beginning. I have learned a lot of things about him and myself that I would have never dreamt possible. I DO find swinging a very confusing thing for me to understand and am still finding what my "comfort zone" is. Like I explained with kissing, at first it was just don't do it, but I couldn't explain the "why" part. I do understand the mechanisms going on with me now. That isn't to say that we will never kiss, but going in, it's not going to be something that I would be willing to do. Yes, I have talked my head off to him, and I'm sure that he feels that I've talked HIS head off too. Yesterday we agreed to have these talks in smaller increments, and not to try to resolve anything in a marathon session. We both tend to start getting antsy when we are discussing anything that could be an emotional breakdown as neither of us want to argue. He's tried to explain to me in various ways the allure of swinging. I don't really get it. What I do get is that it is something that he feels we could do without endangering our relationship, which is my primary concern. I WILL NOT do anything knowingly that is going to undermine us. The funny thing is the arguing about it has had a detrimental effect of us. I had resolved not to argue which was really kind of pointless, and to try to discover what was going on with him. At first when he brought this up 20 years ago, if we would have talked (we both bear the burden of this mistake) about his thoughts and my horrified reaction to them, we wouldn't be doing this now. I have told him and am stating to you that I would love to see the benefits that swinging entail. Is is possible to have these without swinging? I don't know. I do know that I love my husband, and really like our relationship. This is the ONLY area that we have any discomfort talking about. For my part, I interpreted his desire to swing as a negative reflection on his happiness with me, and for quite a while could only compare myself to the women that he wanted to be with. While I am still not entirely comfortable with saying that, I do understand that he has separated his feelings for me and his desires for others. I don't know that I can do that, but I see not only from him that you too do that, and perhaps I can also at some point. Hope this makes sense.
  6. Hello Everyone, My husband and I were talking about some of the subjects on the swingersboard, and he asked me "what do you do when you've fucked up your relationship by wanting to swing? To further complicate the problem, when you STILL want to swing? How do you start over? I then explained my thoughts on this, and I encourage you all to add your thoughts. This is what happens when one (either the husband or the wife) gets ahead of the other. IF you both take the necessary steps to reassure the other that NO...THERE ISN'T ANYTHING WRONG WITH YOU (or whatever the issue may be), and to discover this together, then you have a much better chance of either determining whether this is something that your relationship could either benefit from, or not. I obviously did not have this realtionship advantage. My advice to him was to slow down. Way down. We have to now talk about all the things that he had thought about just in regards to himself (while keeping me out of the loop so to speak), and to determine what kind of "swinging" our relationship, should it come to that decision that WE make. I believe that he feels the women in the lifestyle have the power to make the decisions, and the men simply have to either agree, or they don't get to swing. He knows that I am slower and would therefore would or could take advantage by just saying no, I don't want to do that, or I don't want HIM to do that. He feels he has no power of veto, or of making the decisions. Unfortunately, I think that the person, regardless of the gender, who is either more cautious, or going at a slower pace unavoidably is the one to determine at what speed the couple will go. I also explained to him about my discovery about kissing. Previously, I could not have told him the "why" I didn't want him kissing someone else, but have since figured out and explained to him I wasn't just saying NO because I could control him. It seemed a tad more acceptable that even though my reasons were "goofy", I could articulate them to him instead of him just thinking that I was controlling the situation by forbidding something he saw as a natural reaction when "fucking". Cheesh. We may never (and that might be appropriate for us) swing. There are others out there that are swinging and shouldn't and still more who would like to but either can't (due to objections), or won't. These people may or not be able to state with any clarity the "why" of their situations, but for those who are swinging, could you tap into your wealth of experience, and perhaps suggest ways to me that we may "begin again"? I obviously subscribe to the theory, that a bell cannot be unrung, but surely there are measures that he could see were effective, and at the same time be of some help to those whose realtionships have crashed and burned. I have suggested that he read the various threads, but frequently, he is angered by suggestions that he isn't doing it for the "right" reasons, and feels that some swingers feel morally superior to him. I personally have no qualms about learning from someone who has more experience than I. You are all a font of wisdom for me, and I have gained more insight from your comments than I could begin to acknowledge. Thank you all. Tarnished.
  7. On an intellectual level, I think that I might understand your reasonings, but the very differences in how men and women hold sex seems to almost invite disaster at least to relationships, while trying to satisfy those urges. You say that men simply want sex with a woman that they find attractive. You then say that women are satisfying urges based on a more emotional level. It is when these two different urges are acted upon within a stable relationship, with consideration that you are not going to seek any further satisfying your urges with someone else's wife, and your wife, while satisfying her urges, is not going to seek to continue to take those emotionally satifying to a further level with someone else's husband. Whew!!! Did I get that right? So....if I did get that right......You can have sex with someone else? She (your wife that is), can have sex with someone else, but when you come down to it, aren't you still just having sex? IF you are still "making love" and find that the sex with your wife or husband is satisfying, then why are you seeking others to have sex with when you are already having sex? Now...I know that I didn't throw this into the mix, and I think that this is the crux of swinging. Yes....you make love to your spouse. You love your spouse. You don't want to get rid of your spouse. You simply want to have sex with your spouse, and ocassionally have sex with someone who is not your spouse, but not mess up your relationship? Now please hold on a minute. I am not stupid. Or at least no one has given me a sign yet. I obviously can't separate sex and love, although intellectually, I can say that there is a difference between wanting to spend the night between some hotties' legs, and getting a chance to go home with the person you have had children with, are buying a home with, the one that you are going to wake up with. BUT....with few exceptions, most people seem to mess up their relationships by trying to include others sexually in that relationship. Either they are inconsiderate, cross a line either intentionally, or accidently, don't have their head screwed on tight, or myriad other reasons. Just look at all the questions about how to avoid damaging their relationships, or repairing the damage to their relationships, etc etc. Unfortunately, there isn't a "right" way to swing, but there are things that you can do that are either going to make it more "workable" or are going to guarantee that the only swinging experience many are going to have are going to be their last. These are the things that I look for, and the reason that I stay on the board. For those who are not aware, swinging caused some serious damage to my relationship, although the possibility of swinging happening has not been completely ruled out. Most of the rules are too vague or of a general nature to be of much help. Perhaps someone who is experienced (not write a book mind you, there seem to be plenty of those, yet as "how to" manuals, they seem to fall a tad short.) could give us some very real tips on successful swinging. Oh well.......... still struggling. Tarnished.
  8. I find this very curious that there are no responses from the ladies point of view. I am not sure what that means as far as the ladies motovation. Doubt?, unsure of why you are swinging? Perhaps an unimportant question? T.H.
  9. Rett suggested that this question be asked, so I'll ask it. Most of the time as I understand it, it's the guys who suggest swinging. What are your reasonings, and what do you tell your wife/girlfriend? Is it the sowing of oats, or the harem, or is there something else that is the prime motivating factor? Tarnished
  10. I am one of those wives whose husband "really wanted" to become a swinger. I thought that you might be interested in my point of view. As I am now in counseling, I have discovered that I am a "pleaser". I like to please people, it makes them happy, it makes me happy making them happy, and on and on and on. I think you get the picture. The emotions that I had were overwhelming, and I should have had the strength to tell him an outright NO....I am NOT interested, this isn't something that we should be doing. It wasn't that I was leading him on, or anything like that, I just wanted to give him what he said he wanted that would make him happy, and darned near destroyed myself in the bargain. Our marriage nearly came to an end over this, and some of the things we said to one another in anger will echo endlessly. I have to struggle to try to keep a balance in my life, knowing that this is still something that he wants to do, and knowing that at this point, this is something that I cannot do. Maybe you should really step back, try not to make any harsh judgments, as both you and she have obviously had some heated exchanges, and consider where you are, as opposed to where it is that you thought, or hoped to be. Doesn't sound like you are anywhere near that. Some professional assistance might be what is wanted and needed to give you both the tools to help rebuild, or restructure your relationship. You may have irreversably done damage to your marriage, and I urge you to consider counseling both for you, your wife, and your marriage. By the way...the counselor that I am seeing is also a sex therapist (lucky me, I guess). So far, she is hesitant to endorse the "hobby", for those who were wondering. Tarnished Halo
  11. Hi Everyone, I am still here (surprising some), but wanted to add that I too "freaked" out, but not in a good way. I didn't know how to handle it, and my husband didn't know how to either, which led to some major problems. I was relying on him to be the one who could provide the firm ground on which we could then re-establish ourselves, since mine was shaking pretty bad. Perhaps if people could anticipate (which I didn't, nor did he) a possible reaction and be prepared for it, things would not become such an issue? Hope I made myself clear. T.H.
  12. My husband has often said that a man who had a foot fetish would love mine! I do have really cute feet, and like to wear sandals in the summer just to show them off, but I never really thought much about it. Maybe I should reconsider, and post a photo of my toosties!
  13. I think that as a whole regarding our children, that we wish to be seen in the best light possible with our children, and at the same time, as human beings, with all our faults. HOWEVER... to involve our children in the lifestyle (by the way...this really bugs me, we all have a lifestyle, what makes this so different, is that we are involved with other sexually, while maintaining our relationships with our spouses, and respecting the sanctity of others relationships, therefore, I really don't like the term "lifestyle",), is nothing short of perverted. Our children do not need to know what our personal relationships involve. Do we love them? Are we raising them to be responsible, loving adults, knowing that there are consequences to our actions, that we care about them as human beings to attempt to expose them to the things that can harm them.? How many times have you seen a post of a woman (or man), who is heartbroken because of a decision of their spouse made that does not fit into the established realm of a loving nurturing relationship, that is simply reflective of an urge to satisfy a lust that is based on a hormonal influence? Personally, I would die a thousand deaths to have to look into my child's eyes and try to justify why we are doing this. How could I possibly explain? Therefore, I will keep this secret. To protect my family. THIS IS SO IMPORTANT TO ME.....to protect my relationship (even if that includes me telling my husband NO...we are NOT going to do that), to protect my child from seeing me as anything as a loving, responsible sane person who is trying their damndest to give them the very best possible chance in life to guarantee as much as we can a good basis for forming relationships, and self image. Go ahead and slam me for not being willing to mess up my child's opinion of me. He already knows that I don't have all the answers, but he knows that every decision that I have ever made has been made fully aware of how this might come back and bite me in the butt. I hope to God he never finds out what we are doing. One...it really isn't any of his business, but if he does, I hope that he will be able to judge me with kindness and compassion. And for those who are wondering NO WE ARE NOT SWINGING!
  14. Having been in the position where my "introduction" was less than charming, loving and presented in a way that my heart almost leapt out of my chest, I would STRONGLY agree that to proceed with caution. A GREAT deal of caution. Had we (or he) done things a whole lot differently, I wouldn't be going through some of the mind bending things that I had to. The bottom line (not to be mean) is that you do want to have sex with another woman, but hopefully, you can do so in a way that doesn't demoralize and endanger your relationship. Having been married for 20+ years, it is very important to let her know (assuming that she is important to you and you don't want to lose her or your relationship over being anxious to start swinging) that this is something that you BOTH can do, and there are benefits to her (I am still trying to figure that one out, I am very well aware of the benefits to my husband). Perhaps you can avoid the pit that I fell into. Yeah everyone....it's been a rough weekend so far. I just had to add my caution too.
  15. My GOD! This must truly be a nightmare come to life. Another factor to consider in if we should be doing this. I am struggling with many issues, and didn't even condsider what if someone gave my husband a call and said guess what! Good luck to you, I don't even know what to say!
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