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DocWill

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DocWill last won the day on June 22 2010

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About DocWill

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  • Birthday 10/22/1971

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  1. I apologize for the title in advance. I wanted something catchy, yet relevant to my reflection on our first full year as “swingers.” So, before you go any farther I must put out the following disclaimer first: This post will be long, full of obvious “beginner’s mistakes, touch on some swinging taboos that might draw fire from some of the purists on this forum, and boarder on the ramblings of an oversexed middle aged couple who like to share their experiences so that others may learn- or masturbate… whichever comes first That being said, there is a direct association to the title, but it’s at the end of this consolidated version of our first year. Maybe this is a little self-gratifying, I don’t know, but I love to write about this stuff- especially since it’s such a hidden part of who we really are. So, on to the reflection… If you know us, your know most of our history already. If you don’t, the only important thing you need to know is that Mrs. Will and I started dating in 1988 while still in high school. I was a consummate gentleman, and she was a lady… and that’s probably what brought us together; that mutual respect for not only each other, but ourselves as well. We started having sex in 1989, and by 1990 we both realized that we had a lot more “freak” in us that either of us knew- and we were both remarkably okay with that. It all started one day in college when we were having sex (Mrs. Will was feeling a little “dirty” that day) and I broached the subject of how she would feel if she had another man in room with us. Needless to say, she liked the idea and rest is history. It wouldn’t come to pass until 1995 when a close, single friend of ours came to visit. Up until that point, a MFM had been a recurring fantasy with us. Long story short; I asked her, then I asked him, it happened, and aside from some performance issues on his part, was probably the most sexually enlightening thing we’d ever done. For our first experience there were no worries, no odd or strange feelings… and the three of us remain close friends to this day. Call it the perfect storm if you will, but I tend to believe that we just happened to pick an individual that we both KNEW was willing to help us live out a fantasy, but more importantly, he was also someone we really trusted. Flash forward almost 15 years. It’s now 2010, and Mrs. Will and I had been reliving that ONE experience so any times that it kind of lost its sex appeal. Amazingly, one of my best friends in LIFE and his wife moved to our neighborhood. They’re a younger couple by about five years. In any case, we partied almost every weekend… and eventually the sexually charged atmosphere started to appear between the four of us. We proliferated this atmosphere during a vacation together where we had “same beach sex” in close proximity. This time it was Mrs. Will who broached the subject when she asked me how I felt about having them join us in our bed. I liked the idea, but it wasn’t the right time to move forward, so we fanaticized and that sexual tension continued to rise. What eventually brought me to this forum was what happened next. In May of 2010, at our house, the female half of the other couple propositioned us. In fact, she did more than proposition us; she stripped naked and jumped into our bed. Controlled chaos ensued that eventually ended with a little soft swap between the four of us. Unfortunately, the female half developed “buyer’s remorse” a couple days later and she struggled with her own actions. We all mutually agreed that it was a one-time thing, and that it shouldn’t happen again because our friendship was more important than the jealousy and moral issues the female half had when she was less inebriated. Shortly after that encounter Mrs. Will and I decided that we wanted to actually peruse the LS; to have an actual experience with a completely new couple. So we put up a profile and waited. After the obligatory single male hits we got, a relatively attractive, professional couple contacted us and we agreed to meet. The entire experience from start to climax (pun intended) was exceptional. We knew we were hooked. After another classy encounter with the same couple, they introduced us to a couple that they played with on a regular basis. Same results; simply outstanding. We were officially swingers at that point- full swap and all. Then came the dark period… though it didn’t start out that way. My friend and his wife eventually came back to us, gained our trust about wanting to explore the sexual side of our relationship, and told us that the only way they would agree to sleep with us was if the relationship was exclusive. Well, it seemed like a good idea. And for the first couple of months the sex and fun transcended everything we had experienced up until that point. There was no “emotional connection;” it was simply about fucking and being a little reckless with people we knew and completely trusted. Well, after a neighbor of ours caught on to the affair, the female half spilled the beans, and during a night where we all agreed to go our separate ways, our dear and trusted friends tried to get the neighbor involved in a three-way. The neighbor was offended (because she had her eyes on my wife), we felt betrayed, and the other couple’s façade just simply fell apart. And yes, the 10 year friendship we had with the male half, as well as the five years we knew his wife, came to an end. It wasn’t really ugly, but we don’t talk anymore- some of it because they never apologized for leading us on, but mostly because they tried to take advantage of intoxicated married woman whose husband was away on a business trip. That’s a zero tolerance issue with us because it bordered on sexual assault, so we simply had to cut the ties. Shortly after that sordid affair, Mrs. Will and I rejoined our on-line friends and their couple. We even brought the neighbor and her husband to a house party, and though we didn’t have sex with our neighbors that night, we eventually did… and they became part of the circle. Adding to the amusement and pleasure, they also brought in a single female who had some experience in the LS prior to knowing our neighbors. It was a good time. Mrs. Will and I tried on two occasions to hook up with couples by searching profiles, but both encounters didn’t live up to our expectations. The first couple, while very attractive, simply couldn’t fuck to save their lives. The second couple didn’t make it past the obligatory pre-sex dinner meet and greet. Enter the FMF phase. Our next experience happened when a mutual friend of ours from our past came to visit. She almost immediately caught on to our LS exploits after we ran into a LS friend at a vanilla club. Needless to say we had sex with her, only this time the poly issue reared its head. For about two months we were an exclusive trio, but due to life events and the reality of the situation, we mutually decided that exploring this change was not conducive to our family life, or her professional ambitions. We still see each other every few months or so, and we still have fun… but it’s more a FWB thing now. The focus then goes back to our neighbors. We had short stint of about three sessions with them and they were great; especially when their single female friend joined us. We also continued to see our original on-line friends at house parties which basically consisted of five couples (one of them FF, and more lesbian than bi in real life, but they partied more bi than lesbian). The second dark part occurred when our neighbors decided to end their marriage, and no… it wasn’t because of the LS. It was because the male half decided he wanted another woman when his wife was away for an extended period of training. We were assured that the LS had nothing to do with their split, by both parties, and that they had separate goals and ambitions that just weren’t conducive to being married anymore. Because it was the male who left, Mrs. Will and I were now left with the ex-wife and her single female friend. While a little tiring (I even started working out a lot more to keep up), it’s been great. The only other encounter we’ve had was a MFM arranged by one of the women in our now very exclusive circle. THAT was awesome, but Mrs. Will prefers the women over the men which makes me a highly lucky individual. So today, at the conclusion of evening rounds I decided to document our years’ worth of experiences so maybe some of you can glean a little insight on how our LS works for us. So to sum it up, we’ve basically settled on an exclusive circle of friends who are extremely mature, selfless, experienced, and now trusted parts of our alternative life style. We actually call ourselves the “Fuck Club” and since we took a play on the movie “Fight Club,” our rules are pretty much the same. We’ve learned a great deal from these boards and we are deeply thankful for the insight and advice that we’ve gained during our short stay. We’re actually pretty comfortable and our marriage hasn’t had a hiccup. In fact, we’re more at ease and comfortable together than we were when we first met and were filled with all those romantic notions that led us to marry. Call it what you will, but I believe Mrs. Will and I were meant to find the LS- we’re both now 40, and we’re having more fun today than we did 10 years ago, and OUR intimate times are somehow much more emotional and deeper than they ever were before. We like to say that sex is what brought us together, that sex is what kept us together during the rough patches, and that sex today will probably keep us together for the rest of our lives because we’ve managed to transcend the social norms and find a place where we can be wild, sexy, and completely faithful at the same time. It’s quite amazing.
  2. Lizandtom, I apologize for not getting back to this thread; it's been a very hectic couple of weeks (due to work) and my free time has been limited. Since this situation presented itself, pretending that the innuendos never happened is exactly what I've done. The woman remains overly friendly (my perception), but after I explained that Mrs. Will and I don't mix work with our private lives the innuendos stopped. I don’t know if she finally got the point or just moved her attention elsewhere. I’m thinking it’s the latter simply because she’s got A LOT of options and A LOT of attention in this area (we’re pretty isolated here; lots of guys, very few single, professional women). To answer your last question: that’s exactly what I (we) were afraid of after reading one of the comments posted in this thread. For two intelligent and perceptive people, we can be pretty shallow when it comes to personal interpretations- and the more obvious they are in reality, the harder it is for us to make the connection. I don’t want to go so far as to say that Mrs. Will and I have made it our MO, but most of our trysts with a third playmate have involved casual friends that we’ve seduced (and I use that word in the old style… when seduction was more of an art; not as a means to an end as it is today). I think we would have done the same thing with her since her attraction to me was obvious and because Mrs. Will’s attraction to her was completely physical at first. Our “Neanderthal brains” would have eventually led us down “that road,” and it was simply not worth the risk. Besides, we have our hands full as it is… and taking on another lover would have been selfish, gluttonous… and quite honestly, irresponsible. Some people might think we’re being a little presumptuous, or maybe even a little conceited here, but we have far more to lose by being shortsighted. What if Vegas Lee was right; that she was simply a lonely woman looking for friends… and we made a move on her? I don’t even want to think about the negative repercussions on that one. Again, thanks for taking the time to read the thread… and thanks for your advice and insight.
  3. First, let me thank those of you who took my story seriously. I have a pretty easy time picking apart other people’s problems and offering advice, but when it comes to my own “issues,” I have a tough time dissecting the pieces and tend to look at the bigger picture. So thanks for your feedback. The first thing I looked at was: if she wasn’t attractive, would I have entertained, tolerated, or even noticed her behavior as being flirty or potentially needy? You would think that the answer was a no-brainer, but it wasn’t. I’m clearly more standoffish to attractive people than I am with average or unattractive people. If she was, say… not my type, I would have been pretty open with her, and would have even probably invited her to join us at the bar (we don’t have a senior/subordinate relationship at work so I don’t think any ethical lines would have been crossed). Now, I don’t know if I’m that way because I’m afraid of stepping into a potential situation where my professional (and personal) values could be compromised, or because I have a chip on my shoulder against attractive women. Right now I think it’s the latter, and I can trace that back as far as I can remember. No, I was never jilted by a hot woman or turned down because I wasn’t up to someone’s standards. My reason revolves around the FACT that attractive people tend to have an easier time in the workplace- and especially in the military, than the average person. I’ve seen it happen too many times to think otherwise. So I don’t think I “led her on” by any means, and in the past; when I’ve had attractive subordinates or coworkers, they usually get the hint and remain at an arm’s length. And for the record, most of my past and current lover(s) have been pretty stunning in my opinion, so I have to conclude that my actions were principal based. Besides, I would NEVER want to jeopardize my marriage… and quite frankly, I have absolutely NO reason to even consider that as an option. The second thing I looked at was her personality. She’s got it together. She dresses sharp, she’s very articulate, she’s extremely professional (at least she is in front of the staff), and she obviously takes care of herself. Basically, she doesn’t fit the “needy” bill. In my experience, needy women (or men for that matter) tend to make themselves the center of attention with anyone that remotely entertains them. She’s not like that. There are plenty of other people in my department who would GLADLY cater to her- including other physicians and physician assistants (people on her level) who are not only single, but openly cross professional standards in the work place, as well as moral standards in their personal lives. No, she picked me for some reason- and it certainly wasn’t because I was catering to an inferiority complex or a case of low self-esteem, because those qualities in a person (no matter how insensitive you might think I am) push my buttons in the wrong direction. The last thing I looked at (and it’s obvious to me now after reading some of your responses), was: is my “swinger brain” operating in my subconscious? The answer to that is YES. Holy shit! So, lustylearning wins the prize on that one. I wasn’t even aware of that possibility until I read her post. Some of you might laugh at that revelation, but it’s true. I usually catch myself when this happens and I think most of us newbies do it; like wondering who MIGHT swing, or how cool it would be to seduce another person/couple. Here’s why I think lusty was right: typically people I’m/we’re interested are sexual objects to us. Spare me the lecture because I know objectification has a negative slant to it, but it’s true. That’s why “sex sells” in this country. When the other person/couple is/are an object(s) we (Mrs. Will and I) can draw the line almost immediately. However, with this woman, there’s a lot more to her than good looks. Her conversation and ability to insert personal qualities about her into our working relationship took it to another level- and I didn’t even realize it… and neither did Mrs. Will until we had the same discussion a few minutes before I wrote this reply. She went from object to "interesting," and THAT'S what threw us off. Now, how do we deal with this? I think the answer is pretty clear, and because Mrs. Will and I have a not-so-good history with giving into temptation, enjoy the art of seduction so much, and because this woman clearly goes against one of our steadfast rules, we’re going to put our our feet down and do the right thing. Luckily I didn’t give her Mrs. Will’s card before I had a chance to read the forum. We’ve both agreed that I’ll simply tell her that my wife and I feel more comfortable not mixing our working relationships with our personal lives- which we really don’t. Again, thanks for the insight, all. I knew there was a reason we keep coming back here!
  4. Well, it’s official… I’m being stalked. Don’t ask me why I’m telling you all this; I just figured I’d bounce it off your brains for some feedback. Besides, other than a political forum, I don’t really have an outlet for this outside of my own little world. If you’ve had some experiences with this kind of thing, I’d be interested to hear your story. In reality, there are two reasons why I figured I’d post this here, but we’ll get those in a little bit. The Story: About two months ago our department got a new administrator. I She’s 36; a striking (Hispanic) woman with a pretty sharp personality and a very dry, but consistent sense of humor. I’d have to say that within a week of her arrival the nurses and clerks started making fun of her, but not in the way that one would make fun of someone because they look or act weird, but rather because she is very forward and extremely business oriented; a professional if you will. Our last administrator was an older gentlemen who was easy going and let a lot of stuff slide, and he was pretty much always AWOL when you needed him for something (probably had something to do with him moving on), so the two are polar opposites. In any case, during introductions she came into my office with her assistant to meet me. We had some brief business talk: “What do you do? Where did you go to school? How can we support your office? Stuff like that. Well, I’m not the talking type when I’m at work (I know, hard to believe when you read my thousand word essays on here, right?). My PA, two interns, and our nurse call me "Dr. Monosyllabic" because I tend to use one word to get my point across. Yes, I’m friendly, but only when it’s time to be friendly- and if you’ve ever worked in the medical field, it’s extremely busy ALL day and ALL night, so you adapt to being short because your brain is ten moves ahead of your current state, so there’s really not a lot of time for water cooler talk unless you like working 18 hour days. Anyway, after the brief conversation she looked around my office, gave me a quick blank stare and strutted off. I didn’t think anything of it until a week later when she saw me in my office doing notes. She popped in and asked me if I was busy, and I told her "not really," and that I could use a break for bit before my eyes popped out of my head. So she walks in, asks if she could sit down (which I acknowledge) and starts asking me about where I grew up. Noticing the Steeler paraphernalia around my office she asks the ultimate “blonde question:” “Are you a Steelers fan?” I say yes, and she immediately launches into a five minute story about how her father is a Steeler fan and how much she loves football Sundays. To make small talk I simply asked her what teams her and her husband rooted for- and THAT was my first mistake. “Oh, well, I’m single now… got divorced a little over a year ago. Things just didn’t work out. His career went one way, and mine the other, so we both agreed to call it quits while we were still relatively young." I kind of sidestepped the follow-up question to that and made small talk about the dismal start to Pittsburgh’s season this far. In all, we chatted for about 10 minutes before I excused myself to get back to my notes. Now, this is where it starts getting weird. Aside from the daily “Hellos” and “How you doing Doc?” I started to notice that she would stare at me: stare at me during staff meetings, stare at me when I did rounds with my team in the morning, and just generally stare at me in general! Strange! Then came the phone calls. At first they were business related; asking me how many hours for this case, what’s the prognosis for that case, or how soon until you discharge Mrs. Smith? Two weeks ago the calls start getting longer; she asks about the business, and then she asks about different stuff: personal opinions, decision making choices on her part, how to deal with the other administrators and staff- stuff like that. Not too unusual… until she starts throwing out personal bits of info here and there like; “I went out for a drink this weekend and this is a boring place, do you know of any good spots?” Or “I spent last night in my tub with steaming hot water listening to jazz- do you like Jazz, Doc Will?” And then the bombshell: “I’m seriously going crazy here. Every time I go out I’m surrounded by privates (we work work in a military hospital) who think they’re going to take me home… not that I haven’t considered it once or twice.” I thought that was a little inappropriate, but shrugged it off because my brain was elsewhere. Later in the week she “popped” in my office, which is now a usual occurrence, and asked me what there was to do around here to break the stress. So, being a polite professional I suggested some hiking trails, brewery tours, trips to the city, etc. She thanked me for the information. Last week, I noticed (after hind-sight) that we were walking into work at the same time- four days in a row. Prior to that, I never saw her, and I go to work about one hour before I’m scheduled, which is two hours before her work day starts. First red flag. On Tuesday of last week, after a staff meeting, she stops me before I go onto my office and says “Doc Will, you’re and excellent leader and the staff respects you. I just wanted you to know that I’m grateful to be working with you.” On Wednesday she substituted the word “excellent” with “awesome” and went on to tell me that men in general could learn a thing or two from me. On Thursday, she “popped” into my office and asked me what kind of plans I had for the long weekend. By this time I’m fully aware that she’s dropping the subtle hints: she wants “Doc Cock.” So in a rather long explanation I tell her that MY FAMILY and I were going camping (we have a house on a lake, so camping is a poor word) Thursday and Friday night; which led to a discussion of my children’s ages. She did not ask me anything about my wife. Red Flag number two. Taking note of that, I told her that on Saturday Mrs. Will and I were going to a bar/club about 45 minutes away to listen to some live music and dance a little with another couple (vanilla). She asked the name of the bar and I almost bit my tongue after I told her. Needless to say, she was at the club on Saturday night- alone. She was wearing a very nice evening dress with high heels, had her long black hair teased, and wore a low cut “v” that exposed her back all the way down to her hips. She looked awesome- very hot. Now, before you ask, I did tell Mrs. Will about her, Mrs. Will is not the jealous type, so she simply told me, “shit happens and you know it, just don’t go thinking you’re going on any business trips with her"- all said with a smile. Anyway, she saw us at the bar. I told Mrs. Will who immediately punched me in my arm and told me I needed to find ugly co-workers from now on. After about 20 minutes of awkwardness, Mrs. Will told me to invite her to our table. I argued, stating that wasn’t a wise decision because the girl is seriously stalking me. Mrs. Will laughed, got up, and asked her to join us. We all had a pretty good conversation about a great many things and the night ended uneventfully. Mrs. Will told me that she thought my admin manager was “hot.” I told Mrs. Will- “Don’t even think about it! So Today rolls around, and after morning rotation… guess who “pops” in my office? She thanked me and the Mrs. for hanging out with her… and then, as I KNEW she would, started commenting on how good looking my wife is and that we make a very nice couple. I told her thank you and gave her a brief 18-year history lesson on how much we love each other… fully hoping to squash any ideas she had about trying to wiggle her way into my pants. BUT! The next words out of her mouth were what blew me away. She asked me to talk to my wife to see if she would be interested in going to the gym together (something they had discussed on Saturday night). I told Mrs. Will and she simply smiled and told me to give her (my admin) her (Mrs. Will’s) business card. FIGURE THAT ONE OUT!! You may see where this is heading, but one of our steadfast rules is NOT to shit where you eat. Mrs. Will assures me that she likes the woman and saw some "friend potential," and is willing to give her a chance since she’s new to area. Here’s the kicker, both women almost mirror each other in their personality- both professionally and personally. I’ll have to keep the reins on Mrs. Will for this I think, but I thought it was interesting enough to share. Before we got into the LS this would have been a non-issue, but now that we’re both a little wilder, and that temptation is a BITCH to begin with, I’m going to have put my foot down if and when the time comes. I just hope it doesn’t. I thought this was a good example of how the LS fucks with your head. Thanks for reading!
  5. I'm just going to go with the bottom line up front first: It sounds to me like you're the only one enjoying the LS here. Here are some key elements in your OP that led me to that conclusion: 1. Every couple? That alone tells me a lot. When a person has a problem with everyone... it's that person with the problem. I take it that you already know this, but I wanted to point out the obvious because I think it needs more attention. 2. Obviously (again) that makes you uncomfortable. Once, maybe even twice... I can see a possible quirk/disconnect, but with "every couple" there's a lot more to it. It’s now a negative pattern of behavior. You either address the negative behavior or you encourage it- there’s no middle ground. My suggestion is to REALLY evaluate if you’re addressing the negative pattern here or just trying to figure out a way around it. Negative patterns, left uncorrected, lead to bigger issues down the road. That’s as close to a rule of life as you can get without it becoming a Law of Nature. 3. Stopping in the middle of something and getting up to smoke a cigarette is a sign of stress... regardless of the circumstances. 4. This alone is the first BIG RED FLAG. Again, with one or two couples it's understandable, but with "every couple" it's a problem. If one of us said that to the other, at any point, we wouldn't even entertain the idea. But that's us. If she’s not turned on, I’m not turned on… not even if the entire Swedish Bikini Team is rolling on ecstasy and grabbing lamps to satisfy their sexual desires and I’m the only the guy in the room. There’s more depth to that last sentence… but you have to read between the lines to figure it out. 5. See #3 where you get up to calm her down and "get things back on track". BIG RED FLAG #2. It's obvious (for the third time) that she's not comfortable, so why not practice the "pack up and leave" part? I’ll get to that later. 6. Why does she refuse to give up? I think THIS is the question that holds the real answer you're looking for, and somehow I don’t think it’s going to be the answer that you want to hear. Do you know what the real definition of "insanity" is? It's doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. By now you should be catching on to the cycle. Time for critical thinking and enough of the conversations and arguments. 7. This is RED FLAG #3. If something is repeatedly making someone uncomfortable, to include the other couple (because, trust me, they're uncomfortable when your wife stops to get up and you have to go calm her down), why would you want advice to sidestep or "fix" the obvious problem? Quite frankly, I would be scared of advice from someone who gave me a solution to this problem that didn’t include stepping up like a man and calling it all off until she either tells you to start it up again without you instigating it, or you get an answer that finally gives the actual reason for the dysfunction. I’m a scientist, so dysfunction is the right word to use here. Things are not symbiotic, and yet they should be in your mind as well as hers. All of your questions, wondering, arguing and uncomfortable, negative patterns of behavior are signs of dysfunction. It’s an ugly word, but the right one to describe your problem. Treat it like it sounds, not like a five year-old that steals cookies. 8. Now, this is only MY perception, but based off of your OP and your follow-up comments, it sounds to me like your wife has some insecurity issues. You're kind of passing it off as being your penis size and some others are buying that, but I'm not. You've stated that you've lost weight to make yourself more attractive. You've stated that you're well hung. You've stated that it's you who does the damage control when your wife gets uncomfortable. You've stated that it doesn't turn her on to see you with other women (). You've stated that, even though she refuses to quit, that there are recurring arguments. Lastly, you said "something went wrong somewhere". I have a guess. It’s called the “One up, One down syndrome” It’s better known as the “Passion Paradox.” Here’s an excerpt: This is one of the most common things in almost all relationships- even healthy ones… but, it’s also the thing that leads to most separations where “something just broke somewhere” and nobody involved can explain it. It eventually leads to codependency and a whole other bunch of problems until you figure out when it happened, why it happened, and how your S/O responded to it. My guess is that your wife hasn’t figured out how to respond, and if she has (which is a real possibility), doesn’t know how to tell you because she either doesn’t want to let you down, fears there’s a risk of losing you to a woman who thinks your meat is Sputnik instead of the usual space capsule you’ve been giving her for years, or that she won't measure up to the level of fun that YOU want to have- even if it's in your own mind. Julie has a great saying (and I’m paraphrasing here) where she says that, "swinging will enhance ANY relationship regardless of its circumstance. If it’s good- it gets better. If its meh, bad, confusing, troublesome, argumentative, or competitive… guess what? Those gets enhanced as well." You both are currently "enhanced." Stand noted, and then figure out the pros and cons to that enhancement. My advice: she needs to answer # 6 HONESTLY. I have a feeling it holds the key. At that point the ball will be in your court so remember my answer to #6 before you make a decision- hopefully together, as a couple... not as negotiator or a mediator. Finality is needed here before you should even think about moving on. A lot of people are simply afraid to say what they feel… for LOTS of reasons. If you love her and quit rationalizing for her, or to her, you’ll get the answer if you want it. Good luck in any case. I honestly mean that. I’ve seen too many relationships break because of this (not just in the LS) paradox- and it’s really quite simple to figure out if just ONE person is willing to make SIMPLE concessions and/or sack it up and start discussing the no-so wondeful things that DO occur in the LS.
  6. You can tell alot about a guy by the look of his cock, so while we prefer clothing on first inspection, we always request a cock photo before we play MFM. Mrs. Will likes to look at them... what can I say? For couples, we like the G rated pics. We have one of us in our bathing suits on a beach and we figure if that ain't enough... You're probably not what we're looking for.
  7. We're at a steady average of about three play-dates a month. We put our toes in the water about a year ago, but the last six months is where the average rests. All in all, it's been pretty sweet for the both of us... with the exception of two experiences. We're still looking at going to our first real club later in Feb.
  8. The fact that she keeps adding the phrases that suggest that she wants to do it because it’ll make YOU happy is the red flag here. This is my own opinion, but you shouldn’t consider moving forward until she can tell you that she wants to do it because it’s something SHE wants to do WITH you, not because of you. If she continues to keep adding that tag line it’s for one of two reasons; either because she’s not ready, or because she’s not being completely honest with you... to protect your feelings, her sense of dignity, or most importantly… her level of responsibility. I think you both are on the cusp of reality here, and there’s really nothing you can do or say to tip the scales aside from actually asking her if she wants to it for real because it’ll turn her on, and that you have a plan to make it happen. Mrs. Will was almost in the same boat as your GF until I told her that I had spoken to a mutual friend and that he had agreed to join us. Now, I KNEW she wasn’t going to get mad at me for asking him, but I also didn’t know what she would say (though I had a REALLY good idea)- so I did take a small risk. The way I did it put the ball in her court to actually make a decision without hurting our relationship- and she chose to get it on! I’m not saying that what I did was the best way to move forward… baby steps, baby steps, baby steps… BUT, you will have to JUMP eventually. I don’t believe that there’s a baby step that you can take that leads to another man fucking your GF with you. If you trust each other, are comfortable with talking about it without the sex and wine, and can mutually agree that you both WANT to do it… it’ll happen when the time is right. Good luck!
  9. I think this is a Russian roulette scenario; there are just too many things to factor in when you’re spending the night with someone else- without your spouse. Some things to consider (and this is from my perspective only): 1. Swinging, in any form, isn’t really about one couple- it’s about all the people involved. We’ve been married for 17 years and we can honestly say that we have a hard enough time interpreting each other, let alone the couples we spend intimate times with. That’s why we keep our swinging on the sexual side only- anything more has the POTENTIAL/CHANCE (no matter how low) to actually become something more- especially on the part of the other couple. The fact that there’s a chance that something could “spark,” even if it’s with one person out the four, it’s too much of a chance for us. We’ve spent a lifetime developing our relationship and we’ll be damned if we take risks that we have the ability to control. 2. How “sexually psychopathic” are you and your husband- or the other couple for that matter? Some people have the ability to draw a distinct line between sex and emotion and some people don’t. Mrs. Will and I both have the ability to “fuck and forget” as we like to say. Both of us have been in situations before we were married where the relationship was purely sexual- and both of us were able to walk away from those relationships without remorse when the other person started to get too attached or too possessive (and we've done it in the LS as well with close friends). I don’t care what anyone says- once you raise the stakes, the more you have to lose. This is why I say it’s a Russian roulette scenario; If you KNOW, and I stress the word KNOW, that all four of you can draw that line- then fuckin’ A… have a great time and enjoy it. HOWEVER, most people can’t draw that line after the orgasms are over and they find themselves working on something besides the sex to keep them interested. 3. Consider that spending that much time with the other spouse may expose to you to something that you don’t like, and that it could completely turn you off and ruin the already great relationship you have with the other couple- or them with you. Here’s why I say this, and it may seem petty, but like I said before- you have FOUR people to take into consideration here. Before we got married I met this extremely sexy woman. I would see her from time to time and she would just captivate me- she dripped sex, class, and mystery at the same time. We eventually hooked up, had sex, and then went home separately. I was even MORE entranced- and wanted more. The second time we hooked up, I spent the night. At some point in the early morning she got up to use the bathroom- and let out an obscene, wet sounding fart that echoed throughout the apartment. That’s all it took. All the mystery, class, and sexiness that captivated me were GONE in that instant. I never slept with her again, and I had nightmares (as well as a good story) for months. Something THAT insignificant ruined it for me- and that wasn’t the only time it happened. 4. The last thing you should consider is the “why.” This is my favorite question. What need or want do any of you have that would make this experience something more than what you would get with a separate room swap? This is the red flag I have here with your situation. Swapping partners for an entire night is NOT the norm (not that swinging is the norm by any means)- some people do it and have fun with it, but I have yet to see something like that end without the relationship being, or eventually developing, into something poly. That being said, how many couples do you see in a poly relationship? There’s a reason why most swingers don’t do overnight swaps- and if they do, or did, they usually don’t make it a habit- usually because of a negative. Connect the dots and fill in the missing information before you jump in the pool. Well, that’s it. As usual I got carried away, but I believe in thinking things through. We’re relatively new to the LS, and we’ve already made one mistake by doing something we knew was risky, and just about everyone on here told us to take caution with, that ended poorly- not for us, but for the other couple and we hold some of the responsibility. There’s no doubt you’re taking a chance. Just think about how complicated a NORMAL relationship is- then multiply those complications by four and add in the unexpected before you take that path.
  10. So the long weekend came and went. Overall I have to give it an eight out of ten on the surreal meter. Two days after we confronted “L” about her shady ways we (me, Mrs. Will, J, and M) went to a house party about 30 miles from where we all live. The couple hosting the party is a couple Mrs. Will and I have played with before and we had asked if it was okay to bring our friends with us- making it clear that they were coming with no expectations or intensions to play. The hosts didn’t think twice and agreed to let them attend. When we got there we noticed three cars in their roundabout and assumed that there were going to be at least three other couples in the house. I wasn’t really ready for a fifth or sixth couple, so Mrs. Will and I got a little anxious as we drove up- anxious AND excited (though we kept that to ourselves). When we walked in we were greeted by our hostess and ushered into the living room where there were some finger foods and football on the television. We were all introduced to the following couples: couple A (the host we knew), couple B (another couple we played with in the past), Couple C (a fairly attractive couple who looked to be in their early 40’s), and Couple D... who happened to be two former female coworkers that once worked with Mrs. A. Now THAT was a surprise- five men and seven women. Our hosts brought out some wine and a pitcher of tequila mixed with beer and lemon/lime (OUTSTANDING DRINK, BTW- one full bottle of tequila, four bottles of Corona, and two frozen cans of lemon/lime from concentrate using the water). For the first two hours we all kind of mingled and talked- and surprisingly there was very little flirting, but there was a lot of looking. Everyone was very laid back and seemed to be having a good time. At one point “J” came up to Mrs. Will and asked when the “fun” would start... and Mrs. Will told her that she had no idea since this was our first house party as well. All in all, aside from what was on everyone’s mind, it was just like a vanilla party- pretty nice. Skipping forward, the hostess was the one who decided to get things going. She suggested playing what she called was old grade school game called “Suck and Blow.” For those of you who don’t know (just as the majority of us didn’t) suck and blow is played by sitting in a circle, girl guy, and passing a playing card around the circle using nothing but your lips: hence the “suck” to keep the card attached to your lips, and then the “blow” followed by your partner’s “suck” to keep the card moving. “J” was strategically placed in a “guy’s” position since we had mentioned to the hostess that “J and M” were very curious about her being with other woman. Needless to say, the game worked well to get everyone going. One second we were really trying to play the game, the next second people started dropping the card on purpose to pay the “penalty” (which was a kiss), and then the next second everyone was just making out. As if on cue, the host turned the music up, dimmed the lights... and then told everyone where the condoms were. From there I really start to lose track of what happened next because it was such a smooth transition into sex. Mrs. Will and I ended up in a room with couple “C” for the first round and then later found ourselves watching “J and M” and couple “D” on a blanket in the living room where everything started. Couples A and B were in the pool just hanging out when Mrs. Will, me, and couple “C’ came out to join them. Let’s just say that Mrs. Will and I had a lot more fun from that moment on. As the night wound down we found ourselves getting ready to leave. “J and M” joined us in the car and both of them were giggling like school girls. So, for the next hour the four of us did our best to recount what had happened and how we all felt about it. We stopped at Denny’s for a small breakfast (it was 3 AM after all) where the conversation continued. “J” was extremely excited and thanked us for getting them to the party- she had a blast, and “M” was just mute with a smile on his face since he had just had sex with three women for the better part of two hours. Talk about beginner’s luck! I told him it was too bad that was his first experience because I doubted it would ever happen again- to which he replied, “I really don’t care- seriously, I’m ready to die.” We got home and dropped them off and then Mrs. Will and I went home and had some seriously nasty sex. The next day was funny because we had all agreed to have a BBQ a few weeks back. Guess who was there? That’s right, “N and L.” I won’t bore you all with the conversations, but I do think it’s worth mentioning that “N and L” told everyone that their “swinging” days were over. We’re currently trying to set up another house party with the couples we met this past weekend, and Mrs. Will and I have agreed to just let the chips fall where they may with “J and M.” For now, they’ve only showed a slight interest in getting together with Mrs. Will and me, but I have a feeling it won’t be too long before “J” and Mrs. Will find themselves naked together- and that's due to the fact that "J" won't stop talking to Mrs. Will about how great it was to make love to another woman. Mrs. Will is getting the vibe... and I've never known her to be wrong. So life, it appears, has moved on once again. One swinger couple has retired, another has been born, and yet another has one more great memory to talk about. Cheers, and thank you all for your insight and advice. It has done us well. I'll make this the last updae in this thread since our adventures have moved on past the original topic... unless for some reason "N and L" get back into the story- and I doubt they will.
  11. Just some clarification to make this a little easier to digest. After I reread my post even I was confused. 1. “M and J” were never a part of the group as far as sex was concerned. They are neighborhood friends we met via “N and L.” Though we’ve known them for about 2 years our friendship really consisted of nothing more than hanging out on the weekends to party. 2. The ONLY reason the original four of us agreed to stay exclusive was because we were having unprotected sex. Also, according to “N and L” in the beginning, they were only comfortable with us and led us to believe that they would not be exploring on their own. Before we hooked up with them Mrs. Will and I had already been swinging with two other couples, so we simply decided as a group to keep it between the four of us to avoid any situations where someone might have felt left out- or picked up a bug. 3. Both Mrs. Will and I are very principals based people- meaning that we take our promises seriously and believe a person is only as good as their word allows them to be. We also pride ourselves on being honest- with each other and with our friends. Sex for us isn’t something we take lightly… and we know that kind of contradicts the LS, but we put a lot of thought and time into making those decisions and feel that giving yourself to someone sexually is serious business; that there has to be a level of respect and trust there. “N and L” pretty much stepped on all of those things when they made a play for “J,” especially since it was them who brought up the idea of being exclusive in the first place. Not only did “L” deceive us, but she manipulated a vanilla friend into doing something that she wasn’t really comfortable with- while she was intoxicated. To us, that’s simply inexcusable- and considering our view on sex, it’s also something we’re not comfortable being a part of simply because it was impulsive and somewhat vindictive. So yes, it was easy for us to walk away from the situation. Also, this is something that happens all the time in the LS. I’ve read countless stories on here where one person’s feelings get hurt, or a couple feels like they were taken advantage of, or another couple has an issue with another couple in the same circle. More often than not they just stop speaking to each other which leaves a void- and it also allows couples who are doing the WRONG things to believe that what they’re doing is acceptable- and then they move on and do it again with someone else. We could have just not said a word and moved on- like I said before, it was really no skin off of our noses. However, we both decided that telling “N and L” that what they did was wrong was the right thing to do simply because we didn’t want to leave that void or let them believe that what they did was acceptable. They'll either get over it and move on or they won't. That's on them- not us. We have no problem being around them in a social setting because it WAS just sex to us, and they led us to believe that it WAS just sex to them also. 4. We both agree that the group thing is complicated, but it was never our intention to form a group and play ONLY as a group. We just decided to keep our contact with “N and L” exclusive until it ran its course. Now that it has, we’re not planning on getting involved like that again. Yes, we did invite “J and M” to a small house party- and hopefully they’ll get a better feel for this. If they like it, then we’ll probably play, but by no means are we going to try and keep it exclusive. Mrs. Will and I both have really taken a liking to the LS- and though we’re not even close to going to clubs or events, we do want to meet other couples like us and have sex with them. If that includes “J and M” so be it, but we’ll be much more careful not to place any restrictions on the relationship and there will be a clear understanding that each couple is free to do what they please as long as that honesty and respect is still valued and given.
  12. Well, I have an update… and the story gets deeper and stranger as it unfolds. I hope you all don’t mind me venting here. Aside from bouncing this off of other like minds, it does me well to vent- and it’s not like this is something I can talk about around the water cooler. Anyway, “M” stopped by today after work to take a look at our new floors (had some new hardwood installed and he wanted to check out the work because he’s considering an upgrade himself). Mrs. Will was still at work and our youngest was in the game room immersed in a PS3 game- so we had a little privacy. He was the first one to bring it up. It turns out that he was the one who originally thought that we were having “fun” with “N and L.” When he brought it up to his wife she was pretty blind to it until he started pointing some things out to her; like how we, or them, always lingered after everyone else started to go home from our card games or socials. Then came the trips to the city, and then it was some of the eye contact between the four of us. What got his wife so keyed in on the whole idea was that she couldn’t believe Mrs. Will would be into to something like swapping- even though she had originally thought something was "cool" about her when we all first met. So, after a few weeks it was his wife who asked him what he thought about the idea of swinging. You’ll never guess what his answer was (okay, maybe you will), but he said he’d be willing to check it out if it was with me and Mrs. Will and the circumstances were right. Now, this is where it gets a little complex. “J” and “L” live right across the street from each other… so they talk a lot more than Mrs. Will does with either of them. They even workout together most days after work. It was during one of their runs that “J” brought it up to “L.” According to “M,” “L” avoided answering the question directly and said that it was something all three of the women should talk about together. At that point “J” stopped running and basically said “It’s true, isn’t it?” You can figure out the rest because “L” suddenly got diarrhea of the mouth. Well, to make this long story a little shorter, the two of them started talking about the details a little more and that’s when “J” told “L” that she had been having fantasies about Mrs. Will (I have NO idea what it is with my wife that makes bi or bi-curious women THAT attracted to her. Mrs. Will is VERY sexy, very effeminate, and very demure- so that might be part of it- but it blows my mind). In any case, “L” got bit by the jealousy bug and sort of made an off handed remark that she (“L”) was more experienced in that area. “J” pretty much said, “Thanks, but no thanks” and that it was just a fantasy- and that was that. A few days before “M” went away “J” asked him if it would be okay if she played with us if she was invited. He told her okay, but only if it was girl on girl- no more, not without him. “M” went on to tell me that “J’s” original plan was to get Mrs. Will and I alone to actually ask our thoughts… but it never materialized because “N and L” kept hawking her the entire night- and that it was “L” who ultimately asked “J” If she wanted to join in- which matches the story I wrote here a few days ago. So my response to all this was, “Why did she end up going to bed with ‘N and L’ if it was us she was after?” Well, sadly to say, she was a little intoxicated… and when they left, “L” convinced her to talk about it more because they really weren’t ready to go home for the night. At that point “N” went home. One thing led to another and “J” found herself kissing “L” and participating in some grinding on the couch. That was when “N” came back over… and that was also when “J” stopped the action and asked them politely to go home- and they did. So now, after getting the real story, there was no three-way. “L” pretty much lied to Mrs. Will about that one which explains her constant flood of e-mails and texts to Mrs. Will- in some respect “L” was trying to monitor the communication between “J” and Mrs. Will because she kept asking her if she had spoken to “J” yet (and if you only knew “L” for a week you’d know that’s her MO). “J’s” only correspondence to Mrs. Will was to apologize for putting us on the spot like that and that she had been so excited, and that it was the closest she ever was to REALLY wanting to fool around with another woman, that she couldn’t NOT make an attempt, but before she could do that she had to know if “N and L” were sticking around or not. That’s when “L” took it one step further by; one, KNOWING full well that “J” has the hots for Mrs. Will; two, asking that “J” join us ALL knowing full well Mrs. Will would never go for it; and three, make an attempt to get “J” to fool around with her- and maybe even “N” which explains his initial walk home followed by a 20 minute return. It was exactly like I thought yesterday; typical female competition issues… only those issues include my wife- which I must say, while a little sophomoric in their actions, REALLY turn me on! But I digress. After “M” had explained all of this to me “J” came over to confirm it (and to see our floors). They were about to get going when Mrs. Will (enter the Dragnet theme song) comes up our driveway (which is like almost a half-mile long). The air got still and both “M and J” stood there quietly waiting for her to pull up. Well, she got there and then got out of the call, all smiles, and welcomed them, asked them what they thought about the floors, and asked them over for dinner since just happened to have enough Chinese food for all of us. Mrs. Will’s smile, her new hair cut (something I’ll never understand because I could buy a new power tool for how much those run her twice a month), and this excess amount of food told me she has something up her sleeve. Well, they happily agreed to come back in 15 minutes after they went home and changed and paid the nanny. When they left, I smiled and kissed Mrs. Will on the cheek- in a very taut and formal manner, and I said, “You know, don’t you?” To which she replied, “I know everything… and even some things YOU don’t know.” For the next two minutes I asked her to fill me it but she refused with a smile on her face. That’s when I knew I’d know soon enough. Dinner came and went and we had small talk because the two young ones were with us in the dining room, but when everything was cleared and our day-help got to work in the kitchen, we sent the boys back down to the dungeon, which they love, to play more video games. When we all settled on the back deck I took up my weekly cigar (a Pardon 25th Anniversary for you aficionados out there) and got ready for the talk. Mrs. Will came out with beers for the three of us and a glass of wine for “J.” She moved next to me and looked at “J” and said, “Do we tell them now?” “J’s” reply was, “Please do.” Mrs. Will goes on to explain that it was “J” who had originally put the idea of swapping in “L’s” head after she heard about the “naked beach thing” some one year earlier, but really just forgot about it because “L’s” reaction was completely negative (Yes, Mrs. Will and “J” had lunch together today… which explained why I didn’t get my usual lunch time call). When Mrs. Will had mentioned to me, in the beginning, that the beach night could have been more interesting had the four of us (N,L, me, Mrs. Will) somehow ended up in the same bedroom- she didn’t really think it would happen because of my dislike for “L” and her “bleh” attraction to “N” even though she thinks he’s cute and nice. No, the mistake happened when “L” told “J” about it the WEEK we got back and “J” said that she would have jumped at the idea- much to “L’s” disgust. But, when “L” saw that Mrs. Will and “J” had A LOT more in common during the following months- she got jealous, or a better word would be that she got insecure- which NOW explains how quick she was to all-of-a-sudden be willing to jump in bed with us, have a little soft exploration, and then have buyer’s remorse the next day. It ALL makes total sense to me now. “L” wanted what “J” wanted… just because she knew “J” would get it eventually. So she forced herself on us to get to us before “J” could. Then, when she was having the remorse, she figured out that “J” would probably still be in the picture- which NOW explains her conversations with “N” and her sudden willingness to try and seduce us again. Only that time we fell for it… and for the past two months have been humping each other’s brains out. After all this revelation dies down I turn to “M” and ask him what his thoughts were about all of this. The FIRST words out of his mouth were, “I really, REALLY, don’t like “L.” We all laughed. So we kind of just finished our beers and continued talking about how blind we all were to “L’s” manipulations- even over the littlest things- that would keep “J” and Mrs. Will from getting TOO close. Now here’s the kicker- at THAT moment “J’s” phone rings- guess who? “Where are you guys, “N and I” want to have a talk- try to figure out what happened this weekend.” And “J,” like a pro simply said, “We’re all over here now talking about it, you guys should come by.” Her phone went dead. Five minutes later “L” (alone) drives up and walks in the house with a look of sheer horror on her face. “L” starts by apologizing to “M and J,” saying something along the lines of “I was drunk and hot… and I figured we could play since you were so turned on at the idea of being with your first woman that night.” “J” immediately ripped into her and said that she never once wanted to be with “L” and that “L” took advantage of a situation that she, admittedly, should have used better judgment with- which is why they never got passed the kissing on the couch. Meanwhile the rest of us are just sitting there with smiles on our faces- wondering what’s going to happen next. After a brief minute of silence “L” looks at Mrs. Will and says, “I’m sorry, I know I went against the rules, but I just wanted something for myself for once.” Mrs. Will responded by saying, “Well, you got something- you got labeled as a liar, you got labeled as having no self respect, and you got labeled as not being trustworthy- especially since you told “N” to come back to the house 15 minutes after he left in the hopes of having a three-way… WHILE “M” was out of town.” She didn’t stop there. She went on, “L, you NEVER try to seduce someone without their permission, or without them knowing what your expectations are… and you NEVER do it when they’re alone and vulnerable. You have some serious growing up to, and I suggest that you go back home to your husband so you two can figure out just what you had hoped to get out of all this. In my opinion, you two were only thinking of yourselves. You didn’t consider OUR feelings, and you certainly didn’t consider their feelings. This was never supposed to be about YOU- it was supposed to be about US as a group.” Then the tears came—oh, and trust me, they were as fake as a set of 44D’s on a 4’11” Asian stripper. At that point “M” spoke up for the first time and said, “L, I really don’t think you’re the kind of girl to cry when you get caught. Besides, it’s not working here. We all know what you did to manipulate everyone, so just suck it up and drive on little trooper.” I spoke last, and I told her that this has nothing to with my friendship with her husband- he is what he is- but our friendships as couples has probably come to an end. I said, “Had you been honest- none of this would have happened, and had you not been selfish, this “thing” could have been a lot more fun because I know you like it now, but you’re just not ready for it because your insecurities and emotions get WAY too involved. Go home and talk it out with ‘N’ and maybe in a few days you’ll have the answers you need.” And with that, she said her goodbyes and left. Skipping the processing that we all did after she did leave- it was “J” who moved back to the original topic of swinging. She asked us questions, we gave them answers… and I would have to say, Yes, we’ll probably end up playing with them as well once all the dust settles- there are no reservations with them, and after all, it was them who wanted us in the first place. Mrs. Will is open to the idea, but she doesn’t want to go as fast. We have our “date” this weekend, which we told “J” and “M” about… and as I finish, Mrs. Will has informed me that “J and M” will be going with us to meet two other couples this Saturday under a “no pressure to play” environment. We think it’ll be good for them to see what this is about- and then they can decide how much of their feet they want to get wet- and they agreed. The saga continues…
  13. There is that possibility, but that's going to have to rest on Mrs. Will's decision. Right now she's more concerned with damage control until that potential storm either develops or never comes- and I agree with her. “L” is a trophy wife, and unfortunately she’s always got some kind of drama in her life. A lot of it has to do with the fact that she’s the only one in the group who is not a professional (I think she has a GED actually), and I think she keeps a big chip on her shoulder when it comes to female competition. Mrs. Will is pretty damn nice to look at, and while I’ll admit that “L” runs a close second, she usually always gets lost in the conversations- especially the ones that take place among our circle of friends. I think she saw a chance to seduce “J” and went for it… maybe to try and “one up” Mrs. Will on the seduction scale. Who knows? In any case, she (as well as “N”) need to weed this all out and deal with the ramifications- as superficial and petty as they seem (unless “M” is pissed, then they have a lot more problems). Again, I’m not too worried about it simply because we didn’t have anything to do with it. “M” is not the type of guy to play guilty by association. Besides, he never really liked “L” either… and if you can remember me saying it- I really can’t stand her as well. Wow, now that I think about it… “J” has been coming over to our house quite often recently. Mrs. Will and “J” DO have a lot in common… and I think “L’s” attempt at seduction was, in fact, a way to employ some kind of misguided power over the situation. Yes, I have a psychology background which I treat more as a hobby than a practice- but I do analyze EVERYTHING. It’s a fault, but it allows me to be prepared for just about every situation- that and my .45 Yeah, what bizarre love triangle (to quote the famous song)! Again, it’s the girls at the heart of this whole thing and I think “J” was looking for an “in” with us… but ended up with them. Well, only the future will tell. I talked to “N” today and he said “L” is pretty bummed out that we’ve decided to go our separate ways for a while… he didn’t have any info on the other couple which means I’m talking to both, but they’re not talking to each other. Yeah, could be some uneasy moments between them- but again, it’s not really any of my business. They’re all adults over there. Damn, I made Mrs. Will and me out to be sociopaths! Sex with other people is really is just sex for us… and we like it that way. I would even argue that a lot people who call themselves “swingers” don’t really have the emotional maturity to really enjoy it, and this was the second time that we underestimated “N and L.” You know what they say… fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Well, now we know. Time to take the party on the more conventional route, but DAMN, it was fun while it lasted.
  14. Well, if the guy gets pissed... it'll be with his wife and the people who had sex with her. I'm only going to assume that she told him about the original four of us. Best case scenario: she told him, he said, "cool, go have fun" and the drama is over. Worst case scenario: she didn't tell him, or if she did… she told him and he said, "No way in hell." Enter drama. Now, we have known this couple for about two years. They're a few years younger than we are but pretty "open" about their sex lives. In fact, we thought they were in an open relationship for a while until "M" said they were not. They're a very happy couple... very professional (she's the overall IT manager for a company about the size of Walgreens, and he's a transportation coordinator for a company with roughly 3000 trucks and drivers- so they make upper class $$) and are very responsible people. Their only drawback is that she is wild- I mean puts her hand on your ass wild after a few drinks, and he's pretty conservative. Hell, she might not have even told him for all we know. As of today, they're acting completely normal with us. No matter, Mrs. Will and I did the right thing- and we had nothing to do with the sex that involved his wife. The easy fix would be to simply ask about the elephant in the room, right? Well, that's something "N and L" need to do- not us, and that's Mrs. Will's plan and I support her. It's none of our business- they did it on their own and they can work out any drama on their own. Mrs. Will has a very commanding presence among other women, a quiet confidence that emanates the “You REALLY don’t want to fuck with me” attitude. That’s one of the reasons I fell in love with her- because she can put people in their place when they cross the line, and because she can hold the line without much inner turmoil. So, as far as bringing our names into it... go for it. We have nothing to hide. Let me tell you something about that statement: it’s the SECOND most rewarding thing a person can have- complete transparency based on plausibility. Had we instigated it, or taken part- we’d also be the first ones to take the heat. The good friends thing does make a point, but all of our personalities are too "A type" to go off and sulk about it. Mrs. Will and I knew that coming into this. We're giving them some space to figure it out. Like I said, the rule was exclusive (for health reasons), and they broke that rule. I don't think we'll have any problem remaining friends- but the sex will probably have to come to an end as far as Mrs. Will and I are concerned. Remember, there was really no emotional connection there- it was the excitement of sex with people we could trust and respect. Now that that’s gone… we have plenty of other friends to have vanilla good times with if they want to create a soap opera out of it. Seriously, it’s really no skin off of our noses. “N” and I will remain good friends regardless of the outcome and Mrs. Will, aside from the bi-sexual stuff, won’t really miss “L” all that much- they just don’t really have anything in common. I will keep you informed if anything changes, but I do know Mrs. Will and I are going out this weekend to meet up with some old playmates who were NOT our friends before we had sex. Our rules a different with them- and while I’m sure we’ll still have a great time, it’ll be a little more boring for the obvious reasons.
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