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Larry & Michell
Registered-
Content Count
17 -
Joined
Community Reputation
15 GoodAbout Larry & Michell
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Rank
Contributor
Personal Info
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Relationship Status
couple
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Location
Florida
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Interests
The regular stuff
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Occupation
Finance
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Swinging Experience
One year
Swinger Info
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Favorite Club(s)
Trapeze, club Chic, Club Kink
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Larry & Michell started following Erectile dysfunction has led to a fear of being left out, Thoughts on plus size women and couples, Seperate Room vs Same Room... what and why? and and 1 other
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Thoughts on plus size women and couples
Larry & Michell replied to danjan's topic in Look and Feel Your Best!
Well, they are supposed to be jolly... -
Seperate Room vs Same Room... what and why?
Larry & Michell replied to r_poseidon's topic in Swingers Talk
Then Mrs. Spoomonkey said: You nailed the reason right here for us too. Part of the reason for getting in the lifestyle was partially fantasy fulfillment. If I or Spoo just wanted to have sex alone in a room with someone...it would be each other. The pile ups are so much fun and gives you so many options of play just in one session. This weekend shared a room with another couple. It was just awesome. Bodies all over the place, all sorts of combinations. Now THATS entertainment! -
I would not like that situation at all. I think its rude on their part. There have been couples Michelle and I have played with in group environments where we both played with the Mrs. but Michelle did not really want to play with the husband. But that was in group situations, and he was getting plenty from others. When we had the chance to play with them alone, we politely avoided it because even though we both would have loved to play with the Mrs., Michelle was not going to play with the husband. It just seems so obviously rude to not reciprocate. We're all curious what their response will be, but barring an enthusiastic response on their part, I think you and MrsVan should say adios to them. My novice advice would be to keep looking for a couple you both click with, and until then you and MrsVan just concentrate on each other.
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From now on I'll keep my personal written therapy in a journal in a safety deposit box... After Michelle left yesterday, she called me about an hour later. A couple we had previously had a great time with called us and asked us if we wanted to hit the beach with them. Now the truth is, I did want to get back to a "good" place with Michelle. So I thought it would be a good idea to do some fun, normal stuff (normal for this board anyway). Something I've read concerning psychology, if you make an effort to act happy, even faking it, it actually affects how you feel. Despite how what I wrote sounded, I would have never "used" another couple to get even. Its just that in the group sex environment of the club, its not hard to have a situation where one party could "get some" and the other not, without anyone's feelings being trampled on (and since Michelle didn't think that what she did was that terrible, it really shouldn't bother her the other way around, right?). And I had no intention of using the couple we were seeing during the day in any way for any payback. And I told Michelle I wasn't putting any restrictions on her; we like this other couple alot, and the truth is that all I really wanted is for my pain to go away; I didn't want to get anyone else involved in our problems. And since I really do want to get back to where Michelle and I were, that would include seeing this couple again. So anyway, we had an awesome day, which turned into an awesome night at the club with them and some other couples we knew (really awesome). Michelle said a way to push aside bad feelings and memories is to replace them with good ones. We definitely started that yesterday. And I'm out of that terrible angry place I was. (And BTW, to whoever thought I might get violent, I get violent all the time, but its in a ring, with gloves, mouthpiece and rules (and then its usually me taking the beating ). I haven't hit anyone outside of that environment since high school, and there's zero chance of it now, not when we're talking strictly emotions). And to the comments of me wanting to control her, or the situation, I don't think its too much to ask that a rule like "no intercourse" be stuck to, or discussed before it happens. Because the truth is, with the right couple, I'm pretty sure I'd have no problem with full swap. With this other couple we were with, I enjoyed seeing her please him, and him her. I even get into it verbally (do that to him, touch her there). I feel pretty safe in saying that if they (other couple) wanted to go full swap, I'd be great with it. So its not just seeing her with another guy that killed me so much, it was the circumstances. She was way too wasted and out of control. There's something about that that made it so bad. But I do trust her. While she might not feel that what she did was that terrible, she obviously knows how I feel about it, and I know she won't let it happen again. I don't think thats trying to control someone. I think its respect for the feelings of the person who you love. So anyway, to those of you following this saga, this is pretty much the end of the story. I am so glad this other couple called us yesterday. Honestly, I believe it was fate, or some positive karmic force (we've only seen them once before, its not like we get together every week), but it helped the healing process so much, its almost like it can't be coincidence (I'm a pretty spiritual guy in some regards). What happened still stings, but today, the main movie playing over and over in my head is last nights amazing, friendly, fun orgy, and I'm sure after more time passes, and more good times are had, the bad night will just feel like a movie that I saw a long time ago, didn't like, and don't even think about very often. I know the way I expressed my very strong emotions really shocked some people. Considering that I really was trying to make it work, isn't it better that Michelle really knew what I was feeling? How can you get over emotions like that if you don't acknowledge them, and share them with the person you love (and a bunch of strangers on the internet). I needed her to know what I was feeling, as ugly as it was. How else could she ever help me to get over things, assuming she wanted to try, which, painful as it was for her, I'm so thankful she did. I told her that I didn't know if I could get past it, she might be putting herself through more pain for no reason. But I did tell her I would try, its what I wanted. I'm so glad she didn't just say "its your problem, deal with it, and call me after you do." If I could have pretended that it didn't bother me that much, it would have come out eventually, at a totally inappropriate time, where it made no sense and I could see her saying "Where the hell did that come from"? Now its truly over. It still stings some. But I won't ever be throwing it in her face. I did ask Michelle last night early on to just please be careful with my heart (I'm such a girly-man). I'll probably say that to her every time we play. Thats not so bad, is it? So all's well that ends well. I'm really not a psycho. Michelle and I went home together last night, both of us happy being with each other. No one else got hurt or used, I think we even made a bunch of other people smile, and no animals were hurt in the making of this production.
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I'm using this board as some sort of therapy for myself; Everything I'm saying here I've said to Michelle, in all this same detail. Yesterday I wanted to find a way to hurt her back. Not just once, because that would just make us even, so I wanted to hurt her twice, so she could really know how I feel. I know how sick and twisted that is. I hated being in that place. It hurt, and then it hurt some more. She told me I couldn't love her if I wanted to hurt that way. I disagreed. I wouldn't care, I wouldn't hurt if I didn't love her. Like I said, I know how sick and twisted and dark my heart was. I told her that over the phone in the morning. We spoke later that day. I didn't want to hurt her anymore. I just wanted my own pain to go away. I don't know how to make that happen. I told her that since, to a large degree, our lives revolve around the club, since this all happened in the club, I think if there is any possible healing for me, I think it would have to involve the club. I said that I don't know if it will make me feel better, help the pain, but without some kind of making things "even", I don't think I can ever move past it. The fact is I don't know if it will help. I'm saying I need these activities like a doctor making a diagnosis. I feel no pleasure or excitement in saying them. I don't even think I want to do them. But I don't know if its possible for me and Michelle to get back to where we were without it. But let me say now that I'm not doing this to hurt Michelle. I don't know if it will make a difference. But I don't think I can move past this without it. Its like Terry Bradshaw used to say in the huddle "You might lose with me, but you can't win without me". I had dinner at my house with my daughter and mother last night. I invited Michelle. She came. It was tough. Later that night, Michelle and I sat on the couch. I cried on her shoulder so much. And then I cried some more. We made love. But it still hurts. I woke up this morning angry. So angry. I walked her to her car after breakfast. I told her that all I felt was anger. We're planning on going to the club tonight. Kind of like going for radiation treatment. Thats how much I'm looking forward to it (luckily I fake things pretty well - you should have seen me in business meetings this week). I told her maybe she doesn't want to do this, to deal with me this way. I don't even know if it will make a difference. But like I said before, without it, I know we can't win. But I told her how angry I was. (I much prefer straight out aggression to passive-aggressive behavior). I told her she really might not want to go through this with me. She wants to try. My heart is so dark. Just pain, anger. I hate being me right now.
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Thanks to everyone for your responses. I know what I should do, which is forgive and forget. But I'm just not there yet. She tells me she doesn't remember any of it, that it was all the booze. I believe her when she tells me it would never happen again (I'm not so sure about not remembering any of it. Its a little frustrating. She says she remembers me talking to her after the first time, and then thats it. If she doesn't remember, she can't tell me why, what she was thinking, what was going through her head. Although I'm pretty sure the brutally honest answer would be that she was just real horny and didn't want to stop. So thats just my insecurities bubbling to the surface). She's upset that I can't move past it. She and I are very different that way. She does get past things like this easier. They linger longer with me. I'm sure its my problem. It probably is my own insecurities. But I just can't shake it yet. I know I wasn't ready for this "what-if". Its a movie I play over and over in my head. Michelle is my GF, not wife. So we don't live together. So I'm not forced to share a bed, which might force us to hash it out. I'm not really looking for any more advice. Its something I need to come to peace with one way or the other in my own heart. I don't know how this story ends. To those of you who think I am totally unfairly punishing Michelle, and I am being a total asshole, I don't disagree with you. I know she doesn't love me less. I know at this point its my fault for not being able to handle this in the way I should. But I'm not doing this (at this point anyway) to punish her. If I blow this, its my fault now, and my loss. But a solution that makes so much sense on paper just isn't making it from my brain to my heart. Maybe it will, but this type of thing always takes me a while to deal with. General depressive personality I guess. Usually when I want to, I can fight these moods. I don't think I'm trying too hard right now. Thanks again for everyone's responses. Larry
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I did tell her. I told her how much it hurt. I cried to her. She doesn't think it was that big a deal. It was a crazier time then we've had up until then...six people, maybe more...She said "You were eating her, You were getting a blow job from another"...all true, but I never crossed that line. Maybe that line was more for me then her. It probably was. But it changed everything for me. Maybe I'm just exhausted. I didn't sleep. Maybe 8 hours and I'll be fine. Or maybe I need to get some action on my own, to square my head away. I don't know...
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We were staying soft swap, everything except intercourse. I was ok with absolutely everything with that limitation. But she went past that last night...she had too much to drink...I knew I wasn't ready to see certain things...I have to take some of the blame for not controlling the situation better...I always made it a point to tell any woman who I was eating, or who was sucking my cock "we don't do full swing"...she didn't...and at first I wasn't sure, so when they were done, I took her aside and asked if he fucked her...she said no...I said I was so relieved, I told her that thinking it was happening was ruining the night for me...then she went to the bathroom, came back, and said, she thinks maybe it did happen...OK, I can probably deal with that, he's aggressive, she's drunk...but then it happens again, she climbs on top of him...I knew I wasn't ready for that...it was so out of control...another guy there...It hurts so bad...Maybe in a few days I'll be totally over it...maybe I need to fuck a bunch of strangers...But right now it hurts so bad...I know a bunch of people are going to tell me its my own insecurities, I was asking for trouble, I want it to be all about me...whatever...It just hurts so bad...I know she loves me very much...Up till now I was planning on spending my life with this woman...It just hurts...so bad...