Be honest - if you have a bi male, you aren't a straight couple!

[DeesireCpl]

...
We know of a couple who recently married and claim they are in the lifestyle as a straight couple. However this couple have placed ads and attemped to meet with bisexual males while trying to hide the fact but most people have seen their pictures have realized that it is indeed the same so called straight couple in the bisexual male ad and want to know why they are hiding an important fact like male bisexuality.
It is not a crime to be bisexual ....so why hide the fact , the lifestyle is about honesty and trust. Lying and saying your straight when in fact your not is wrong in Swinging. Especially males considering most males are straight in the lifestyle with a small percentage being curious or bisexual. Most couples have a real problem with bi males mainly because most males of lifestyle couples are straight. What this couple just does not understand is people talk and word gets around that they are not totally honest which makes others feel well what else could they be hiding or lying about?
How do you all feel about this situation ....if a man is bisexual andhis woman straight should they lie in an ad or profile? for fear of not being accepted ....or when meeting other swingers say they are totally straight ? because they are nervous that the couple will run for the nearest door if they disclose that he is bi. Is that acceptable or should they be honest and say he is bisexual ,she is straight and be proud of who they are...not hiding or lying about important facts like that in the lifestyle. Who cares if people can not handle what your sexuality is just move on ...but in the long run it beats lying and pretending to be something your not. Dishonesty is not swinging , it's like kinda like cheating really isn't it ...

[yawanna]

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Who cares if people can not handle what your sexuality is just move on ...but in the long run it beats lying and pretending to be something your not. Dishonesty is not swinging , it's like kinda like cheating really isn't it ...

It might be along the same lines as posting as a couple when you aren't.

In the end... everyone has their own way of soliciting or communicating with other potential swingers as to their preferences, without being 'labelled' for occasional interests or opening themselves up to potential future possibilities.

Many threads exist here about men being accepting of bi males.

You may do well to read them.

Respect others choices and methods of meeting people when they are doing no harm and are actually a couple

[bill&sabrina]

DeesireCpl
The couple you describe is following the example of the swinging community. Present your lifestyle one way while leading one different from what you present to the public. The swinger word for what most would call lying is "discretion". I have been and always will be outspoken for swingers not hiding what they do. I don't advocate shouting it from the tallest rooftop, but don't outright lie when asked directly if you swing. Some on this very board recommend lying when asked directly if you swing. If someone hiding one thing worries you maybe you should look over this board really well, and decide if swinging really is for you. I have found that among people that I meet at clubs and parties their opinions follow those on this board. The swing community as a whole hides their lifestyle. If swingers can lie or hide lifestyle choices to relatives and life long friends what makes you think they are going to be truthful with you.
Bill

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by DeesireCpl
...We know of a couple who recently married and claim they are in the lifestyle as a straight couple. However this couple have placed ads and attemped to meet with bisexual males while trying to hide the fact but most people have seen their pictures have realized that it is indeed the same so called straight couple in the bisexual male ad and want to know why they are hiding an important fact like male bisexuality.

I've several thoughts on this. First and foremost that comes to mind is the stigma attached to male bi-sexuality. Because someone has an interest in bi-sexual activity does not mean that they are interested in that with everyone that they meet. That goes for both male and females. (As a bi-female, I can say that with full authority.) For a while we had our ads as myself (Mrs. O) listed as a bi-female. A choice that I fully regret as there then became an 'expectation' to convert others or play bi whether either of us were interested or not. Eventually we removed it from our ads as it began to become more of a headache than it was worth.

Speaking only for ourselves, we wrote to those that we thought might be compatible in different areas than we had experienced before and/or had an interest in. Were we lying? No, not our opinion. For myself, I can be listed as straight and really mean it as it takes a special someone in order for me to be interested in participating in bi-sexual activity. Should I need to tell all the straight women that "Hey, I've an interest in bi-sexuality and I've played with women before"? This expectation would not be there for a woman, yet it would for a male. A double standard in my opinion.

IMO, if you come across an ad that doesn't meet your criteria for whatever reasons, move on. No need to disect it, just move on.

[heandshecpl]

DeesireCpl

Very interesting post, we too have run into similiar type of situation, that left us shakeing our heads. A couple answered our ad looking for a bi-female str8 male, we discussed our interests with them and likes/dislikes, and decided to meet them at a club. We met had a drink, danced a few songs, talked a bit more at which time the couple informed us that the male 1/2 was bisexual, now having a few gay and lesbian and bi friends, that was not a problem with us at all, just not what we are looking for in a "Play" sense couple to couple. We asked them why they had answered our ad, that clearly stated what we were looking for, and there response was that they liked our pics and thought they would take a chance. We told them that as swingers we are in it tough enough, and to be upfront with couples with what they were looking for and there approach to finding the right couple.
We only meet with couples who answer our ad at the club we attend most every Saturday night so we had not gone out of our way to meet this couple, but just felt a little miffed at there dishonesty, because we feel that as swingers we can be upfront about fantasy's and desire's.

P.S. DeesireCpl it was great to finally meet you two at club Abstract a few weeks back, you both are very attractive, by any chance will you be attending the club for Valentines this Sat? if so I am bisexual and want to dance with you both!! the Mr.heandshecpl wants a dance with MrsDeesireCpl

[NewTemptations]

Just my 2 cents worth on this whole thread....

I dont see why anyone would even care if this couple had 2 (or more) ads out there looking for different things.

If you reverse the situation and the couple had had a "straight" ad and bi female ad would anyone really care?

Could be lotsa reasons for the different ads...and as far as i can tell, no one posting here has contacted the couple in question to ask. Maybe he is truely bi and knows the general feeling of the swinger community about that so chose in the straight ad to tell them later if they should click. Could be hes simply bi curious and decided to run an ad and think about it. Could be that is wife is the one curious to see him with another guy and hes at least trying this for her, might be that theres an entirely different reason that i havent thought of..... My point is, without asking, nobody really knows.

My official opinion is that each couple or individual is into/curious about their own things. Their particular situation or how they handle or advertise it is really not anyones business unless a person/couple happens to be interested in one of those ads...then questions are ok so they can make their own decisions from there. If someone is not interested, then i dont feel its their place to judge one way or the other.

To the couple with the two different ads....all i can say is (quote from an old candy bar commercial) "sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you dont"

Laura

[Amy and Mike]

This is Mike, the male half.

I really dont see how it's any of your busines whether or not someone is "bi". They have no obligation to disclose anything about their sexuality to you or anyone else. I absolutely agree that this type of lying is really just being discrete. If I was having sex with males (which i dont, by the way) and someone asked me, I would most likely deny it if I knew they might be biased against me because of it.

You go on to say:
"Most couples have a real problem with bi males mainly because most males of lifestyle couples are straight." Yeah, well so what? If you have a problem with that then its YOUR problem, not theirs. And if they lie and tell you otherwise then I say good for them. It really amazes me that swingers (who you would think would be very open minded) can be so uptight. And to think that someone owes you a full disclosure of their sexuality just because you swing with them is beyond uptight –_its ridiculous.

[wrnakedru]

Can't help but wonder if we've got two couples here who have been so extraordinarily blessed that they have never before run into this kind of situation. That would be so unusual.

I would think anyone who meets folks utilizing on-line profile ads has meet those who were different in some way than they either presented themselves to be - or were perceived by the reader to be. Sometimes this is good news, sometimes it is not.

It is far more disagreeable when you meet those whose photos are, although theirs, from as much as ten years ago. Sometimes the change has been so great, it is difficult to believe they are the same people. Now in that instance, it isn't really an outright lie as the photos are of them - but then again, not what you might have been expecting to see. And that may have been a large part of the attraction you felt.

Likewise a couple who bills themselves as "soft swap" who gets contacted by another of the same category. Yet when met in person, confess they really prefer full swap - and list themselves as they do as they find the expectations are not so difficult. Well, for those who truly only want soft swap - this can be disturbing. And since the other's preference is really for full swap, it would seem for both parties a bit more email or phone discussion could have covered the areas of possible differences.

As Mrs. O stated, the acceptance of male bisexuality is an uncertainty at best - even within the so-called wide open acceptance of lifestyle choices that swinging is supposed to be. I do see ads that are forthcoming on the category, but know of many others who do not mention it in their profiles. I believe the activity with those is on an infrequent basis, and not the sole objective of their activities.

I would think that those who desire any certain category of activity to be considered MANDATORY in their playtime are going to include that information in their profile.

We have found that their are many factors about folks that are not included in a general profile listing. The onus then falls to the reader; if there are "deal busters" for you - you owe to yourself to list the "no-no's" in your profile. If you don't, perhaps you should ask the necesswary questions prior to meeting with a couple.

If you didn't ask about something that is of crucial importance to you, shame on you. Responsibility is a two-way street. Don't attempt to absolve yourselves by pointing fingers at others who are guilty only of allowing you the opportunity to make new friends, and perhaps expand your own horizons along the way. If you do not subscribe to a level of activity, no one forces your participation.

Give credit for information being shared once personal contact was made. You were allowed the opportunity to make a decision and choice for yourselves.

If you cannot at least on a social level accept those who vary in some way from yourselves, perhaps you should re-examine your own profile's self description. Does it include "open minded"?

[Vjklander]

I think if someone advertises as straight and then comes out as bi when you meet, yes, that is being dishonest. If they advertise as straight with the intent to play straight, then I don't see a problem. I am straight, but wouldn't have a problem playing with a bi-male couple with the caveat that I wouldn't be involved with the male. We have done that, no problem. We are also nudists and BDSMers as well as swingers. There are a lot of crossovers, but mostly not. So we don't advertise we swing to dungeon denizens, but don't hide it either. We don't advertise that we swing or bdsm to nudists, but don't hide it either. Basically, we will play to the comfort level of whomever we are with. We're really not all that scary.
J

[JustAskJulie]

The way I gather this, you know the couple personally and you know them as a straight couple but you ran into an ad where he says he's bi. This is a pretty common occurance just due to how most people tend to still be anti-bisexuality amongst guys. You'd think in a lifestyle as open as swinging that people would be a little more open-minded in regards to what others choose to do sexually. Unfortunately that isn't the case, which leaves many people often feeling like they still can't be completely open about their interests.

I tend along the lines of what Mrs.O said regarding how often people make assumptions based on your ad. Could be that while he is open to bisexuality he knows that those around him would not accept him as such and might not play with them because of the fact. You said yourself that bisexuality among males in swinging doesn't tend to be accepted. So it would make sense that that would not be something that would open to everyone. However, he may be either bi-curious or bisexual and wish to explore that side as well and would prefer to do so outside of the club scene amongst those who will accept him as such.

So it comes down to, are they a couple you play with and you feel they are lying to you personally? Have you asked them what the deal is? Why not? Just talk to them and say "hey ya know we were looking at these ads sites and found a few ads where the pics look like you and the guy was looking for bi males, so what's the deal."

[heandshecpl]

Originally posted by Amy and Mike
This is Mike, the male half.

I really dont see how it's any of your busines whether or not someone is "bi". They have no obligation to disclose anything about their sexuality to you or anyone else. And if they lie and tell you otherwise then I say good for them. It really amazes me that swingers (who you would think would be very open minded) can be so uptight. And to think that someone owes you a full disclosure of their sexuality just because you swing with them is beyond uptight –_its ridiculous.

Hi Mike, well when it comes to sharing my husband and sharing myself with another couple, being upfront and honest when answering an ad, and then speaking to them directly and they still are not upfront about the fact, waiting until they get you in person to disclose there information, then only they lose and have to deal with the rejection.

You said you are amazed that swingers can be so uptight maybe it is just for that reason that us as swingers ARE openminded and get miffed at the fact that a couple would just not be upfront and say that the male 1/2 is bi.

And to wrnakedru2...yes after being in the lifestyle for as long as we have, we have run into ALL kinds from people sending us there highschool pics to one couple even sent us there wedding photo, forgetting to state that it was 37 years old etc...we have every form of ad out, we have come to the conclusion that people never read them, just see a pic and answer it, so we generally just stick to the club scene
as far as the bicouple that we met that were not upfront even during an hour phone call with regards to likes/dislikes, we felt we handled the situation correctly that night, introduced them to our friends at the club, etc.. so there is no need for us to do any examination of our own profile's self description, because we do both have very open minds, just ours are not used to being lied too

[MrYaWanna]

Deal busters! I like that term. Thanks wrnakedru. Most ad services offer the categories of likes and dislikes but I like the term "Deal Busters" Perfect! I've never thought of it that way.

I think the next time we re-write an ad we'll include that. Given that we are an open and playful couple that are open to most anything with the right couple, I think we'll put in the "Deal Busters" section "Couples who's "Deal Busters" section contains more words then their "Likes" section!

Back on topic tho, Male bi-sexuality is such a touchy subject for some narrow minded people I can see why couples don't mention it. As long as they are honest when asked, no harm, no foul.

[DeesireCpl]

We find it really interesting to see people interpret things the wrong way ....now nowhere did we say ...it was bad to bi ...or to be a bi male .....or to be discreet

But we did say it is unacceptable to lie. This couple is quite funny the female cuts up cross dressers and single males she totally attacks them and does not seem to be the open minded type. But she feels it ok to lie to her fellow swingers in the lifestyle that her hubby is straight all the while is bisexual.

And to those who say it's not our business wanna make a bet oh yes it is especially when this couple plays with some people we do as well. We all worry about people who are not honest.

As for being open minded to be open minded you must be honest and open not a bold faced liar as these two are.
Yes you should disclose what your sexuality is , it's no different then disclosing your marital status.

If the male being bisexual doesn't matter to you that's your choice , I know for us it doesn't matter at all ....
However the lying does matter to us.
And the total dishonesty and total hypocrisy of this couple is just wrong.
Being Discreet is one thing but lying to someone is another. The couple should disclose that the male is bi or at least curious and then it's up to the other couple to be discreet about the information that was given to them. And then act accordingly.

Lying is not appropriate or acceptable in any forum.
Discretion is a totally different story.
How can anyone condone dishonesty ?

[Alura]

Well, I'm just a hick Okie, but it seems to me that discretion within the lifestyle is warranted. I'd hate for the Youth Sports Assn. to ban me as a pervert. Seems like total honesty, however honorable, might have to take a back seat to keeping a job (or staying out of jail) in some communities.

This thread has reminded me why we don't run ads for playmates.

Alura

[wrnakedru]

I do not deem as dishonest the lack of information regarding that which may or may not ever have transpired in the course of play unless as a result of that activity I am to some degree affected. I believe that it is proper and fitting I should receive that information if and when it becomes possible I may be affected.

I do not feel that which is not going to be a part of time spent with a person, or a couple, to be any of my business unless it is of a nature that puts my well-being in jeopardy.

That said, I offer the following additional opinion.

My husband and I have profiles on several sites, and we normally utilize some variation of a tag line that reads: "Happily MWC ISO same for mutual pleasures." It is our wish that a responding couple has read that profile and is within the requested definition we seek. If they are NOT married, we would certainly seek those who are in a long term, commited, exclusive relationship of a stable nature.

We have reasons for our preference. Among those reasons is a belief our chances for a "good match" are increased if all are bringing the same thing to the table, so to speak. That all are putting the same thing at risk, and therefore are mindful of the other's relationship as well. That all are operating from the same base or foundation, and therefore the same level of commitment to their own relationship will guide their behavior.

The misrepresentation of their status is something we would consider dishonest, or to use your words, a lie.

We would be extremely offended by their erroneous representation as it is the basic definition of their relationship.
It is, for us, a statement of who THEY ARE in the most crucial sense.

We do NOT in any way consider that on an equal level with a "curiosity" that they might have, or an activity they may have no objection to, indeed may not have participated in or have any intention of participating in. Those are details of activity and can be discussed as we get to know each other, and learn more regarding one another.

The basic definition of WHO they are is not a matter for interpretation, and should never be spoken lightly - as if it has little or no meaning.

It is instead one of the basic cornerstones of the interplay both may seek. To pretend otherwise is a prevarication of the highest order. It places the liar on the same level as a philandering spouse.