Am I bi? - Page 2

saranmark · 08-23-2003, 06:33 PM

I absolutely agree, EBF.

I have one concern about something else... Bear, I always respect your opinions and more than half of the time agree with you. BUT, what if he chooses not to tell his wife, asks the other couple to NOT tell his wife, either, and one of them accidently lets it slip? We all know that the majority of damage done in a relationship is due to the hurt caused by dishonesty.

I would be incredibly hurt if my husband didn't tell me and also asked the other couple not to tell me. I would feel foolish and embarassed, as well as hurt. It would make the situation messier than it already was.

I agree 100% with EBF's opinion that if this is something that you want to pursue again, you need to tell your wife. If it is something that you honestly don't think will happen again, I don't feel you really need to tell her unless you are planning on playing with that couple again. I simply wouldn't be able to trust that in the heat of the moment one of them woudn't accidentally say something.

I also agree with the majority here and say that there really isn't a need to label yourself. You enjoy what you enjoy. Period. But be honest with yourself, and if you honestly think you are inclined to participate in sexual activities with men in the future, your wife deserves to know.

Just my thoughts....
SARA

OhioCouple · 08-23-2003, 07:28 PM

As the female half of this couple, I would be very upset to learn second hand that something had occured that he didn't share with me. Finding out down the road is not a cool thing to do. I think you should tell your wife and then gauge how she feels from there.

I, (personally) would not be upset if my husband said "Babe, while you weren't involved because of (insert reason), I explored a part of my sexuality that I'd like to explore it further. How do you feel about that?"

I think hiding it is the WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, thing to do.

In my opinion, you should tell her. Once you start hiding things, it just becomes worse. Maybe she won't be receptive, maybe she will. You won't know tho, until you ask.

Let's face it. We are talking swinging here, where COMMUNICATION is the key to every thing. When you fail to communicate...you fail in not only swinging, but your personal relationship too.

bear_n_bunny · 08-24-2003, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by saranmark
I absolutely agree, EBF.

I have one concern about something else... Bear, I always respect your opinions and more than half of the time agree with you. BUT, what if he chooses not to tell his wife, asks the other couple to NOT tell his wife, either, and one of them accidently lets it slip? We all know that the majority of damage done in a relationship is due to the hurt caused by dishonesty.

I would be incredibly hurt if my husband didn't tell me and also asked the other couple not to tell me. I would feel foolish and embarassed, as well as hurt. It would make the situation messier than it already was.

I agree 100% with EBF's opinion that if this is something that you want to pursue again, you need to tell your wife. If it is something that you honestly don't think will happen again, I don't feel you really need to tell her unless you are planning on playing with that couple again. I simply wouldn't be able to trust that in the heat of the moment one of them woudn't accidentally say something.

I also agree with the majority here and say that there really isn't a need to label yourself. You enjoy what you enjoy. Period. But be honest with yourself, and if you honestly think you are inclined to participate in sexual activities with men in the future, your wife deserves to know.

Just my thoughts....
SARA

Sara, I can only suggest you go back and read my earlier post again. The scenario I described (the one with the negative outcome) is real. It happens all the time. If his wife is one of those who can't handle this sort of information, she will be incredibly hurt no matter what he does; whether he tells her outright, or the other couple lets slip and she finds out that way.
A difference which makes no difference, is no difference.

You have three possible outcomes here. One is he tells her, she freaks. Second, the other couple tells her, and she freaks. The third is neither of them tell her, and she doesn't freak, because she then has nothing to freak about.

You and several of the others think this is about "honesty". It is not. It's about running the very real risk of wrecking a family, adversely impacting not only the man's life , but the wife's as well, and the lives of any children they may have.

THAT is the difference.

Honesty, as far as it goes, is fine. But there are going to be situations where unbridled honesty is not necessarily a good thing. This is one of those situations, because you are treading into an area that involves very basic, fundamental issues, of both a sexual and emotional nature. As I said before, these are very risky things to be diddling with.

My position is, and will remain (as no one has presented an argument to refute it), that it is better to keep quiet about this and so keep the family intact, than to be unremittingly honest and wreck one's family in the process.

-- Bear

Elusive BiFem · 08-24-2003, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by OhioCouple
As the female half of this couple, I would be very upset to learn second hand that something had occured that he didn't share with me. Finding out down the road is not a cool thing to do. I think you should tell your wife and then gauge how she feels from there.

I, (personally) would not be upset if my husband said "Babe, while you weren't involved because of (insert reason), I explored a part of my sexuality that I'd like to explore it further. How do you feel about that?"

I think hiding it is the WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, thing to do.

In my opinion, you should tell her. Once you start hiding things, it just becomes worse. Maybe she won't be receptive, maybe she will. You won't know tho, until you ask.

Let's face it. We are talking swinging here, where COMMUNICATION is the key to every thing. When you fail to communicate...you fail in not only swinging, but your personal relationship too.

And I understand your point, Ms. O. But that is you and the way you communicate and want to be communicated with. I think Bears arguments are with merit if for no other reason than both sides of the coin need to be presented to this man. Before total honesty gushes forth, he needs to decide if this was an isolated event that is unlikely to ever happen again, if he was just caught up in the heat of the moment, or if this is a lifestyle he will now choose on a regular basis. His comment that he is "fixated on not swinging per se but having a steamy afternoon with Mr. 2 again" was something that concerns me. If indeed, that is the case, he needs to decide, for himself, if this fixation is worth the risk to his marriage.

For the most part, I agree that total honesty is the best bet in ALMOST all circumstances. But.....and there are always buts....in the first place, we all have deep, dark secrets that we keep to ourselves and never share. Maybe things we are ashamed of, things that happened so many years ago they really make no difference, maybe things that are simply to painful to share with anyone. Even in the closest of relationships, people have things - thoughts and/or behaviors - they keep to themselves only because they don't want to risk disapproval from their SO, or....I can't think of the word...so...if you think I'm super-duper, but I make a stupid mistake one time...I don't want your entire opinion of me to change - an opinion that took years to create maybe - I don't want it to change over one mistake or event.

Before this man "comes clean" he needs to do a lot of introspective thinking to decide exactly where he is in his life. Once he makes that decision, he can then move forward with confidence in the direction he chooses. So...he elects to tell her and she isn't receptive and freaks and divorce results and a few months later he realizes this was a fleeting thought borne out of curiosity, but he has lost his wife and family. Is that really worth it? He holds tight, keeps his mouth shut, marriage and family remain intact and a few months later he realizes this was a fleeting thought but the relationships are preserved. Or, he holds tight, keeps his mouth shut, a few months later realizes he is bi and wants to continue bi relationships and she freaks and divorce results...but he is comfortable with his decision. He really gave it serious thought.

I believe in honesty, but not always at the expense of bringing unnecessary pain to others. - EBF

OhioCouple · 08-24-2003, 11:22 AM

I do understand both your and Bear's side, EBF. My comments are directly related to the fact of Hfnster01's statement that he is 'fixated on another steamy encounter'. The written words do not relay that it was only something that happened in the heat of the moment, it felt good...etc. The written words say that he enjoyed this and lusts for more. To me that is a big difference.

In my mind that means he has a strong urging for more and those sort of feelings just don't go away. To not relay it to his wife, it may result in cheating, lying and tons of guilt. Then a whole lot of people get hurt as opposed to just one or the other.

In my opinion it is better to have it out in the open and deal with it from there.

hmr · 08-24-2003, 11:50 AM

Considering he was asking for advice on how to deal with this and it seems to have come down to a tell or not tell, I'm going to put in my 2 cents worth.
When confronted with a similar situation, with feelings, not action, and knowing my wife was Not bi, we discussed it in fantsy mode.I was not sure of my wifes reaction, so when checking out messages from bi males on the net, she commented that so and so was bi. She was definitely attracted to this guy. I told her we'd meet and not to worry on my part. This lead into a discussion on the subject over time, with me putting out feelers on her response, without any hurt feelings.
One of the reasons I had thought this might be a touchy subject, was we were out of swinging for 2 years. This was due to a bad experience we had with a couple. when we got to the room after a swingers meet and greet was when we found out the male was impotent. We should have left then, but being relative newbies, descided to try it out . It started with the female half and I having our fun and the male half performing oral on my wife. Then the female half positioned herself to take over for the husband. When my wife opened her eyes again, she kind of got upset.
Now, as I said, we were new and had not really discussed the rules between ourselves, never mind knowing to do that with another couple. Now everything is openly discussed beforehand and there are no more hurt feelings. We have also discussed all and if I want to go there it is no problem, although I have not yet. In fact, we were at a party just last night and although there were many bi women, my wife told everyone in the beginning and there was no problem after that. We just had a ball!!!
So, just feel it out, with out saying what happened. Then if she is receptive, discuss in full the details.

saranmark · 08-24-2003, 02:47 PM

Thank you, Ohiocouple-- that was the point I was really trying to make... I too, was concentrating on the statement that he was
"fixating on another steamy encounter".

If he is concentrating that much on the possibility of it happening again, than the probable outcome is that it will happen again. I stand firm in my belief that in this case, his wife deserves to know. If it happens again and he doesn't tell her, it is a cut and dried instance of deception. Deception wrecks marriages. One of the core values of the Swing Lifestyle is honesty. That is the difference between swinging and cheating. If you blur that line, you are asking for trouble.

I have already said that I understand your viewpoint, Bear. I do.
I only said that he should tell her about this one encounter IF they are planning on playing with this other couple again. There is no way he can be sure that his secret would not get revealed in the heat of a moment. If he is not planning on swinging with that couple again, and if he has decided not to participate sexually with another man again, than I agree it might cause more harm than good to tell her. But by reading his post, it is clear to me that he is really desiring to be with a man again. In which case, it is deceiving his wife by keeping this a secret.

That is my opinion as a female half of a married couple. I am simply putting myself in his wife's position and trying to think of what I would want to happen. I sincerely hope that hfinster01 lets us know what happens!

Enjoy your weekend!
SARA

bear_n_bunny · 08-24-2003, 03:40 PM

I have to admit, I am curious how this turned out. We have not heard anything from hfinster as far as I know.

-- Bear

Chicup · 08-24-2003, 03:56 PM

Personally I think the telling or not telling depends on the answer to the question 'Am I bi'.

If it was a heat of the moment type of thing, then there is little point in telling and it may well upset his wife. My wife is mildly bi, (only with really good friends), but finds male homosexuality really disgusting. If I had such an episode, I don't think telling her would be a good thing.

On the other hand if you find you really ARE bi, then telling is important and 'worth the risk'. Not telling is denying who you are, which is never a good thing.

Elusive BiFem · 08-24-2003, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elusive BiFem
Before total honesty gushes forth, he needs to decide if this was an isolated event that is unlikely to ever happen again, if he was just caught up in the heat of the moment, or if this is a lifestyle he will now choose on a regular basis. His comment that he is "fixated on not swinging per se but having a steamy afternoon with Mr. 2 again" was something that concerns me. If indeed, that is the case, he needs to decide, for himself, if this fixation is worth the risk to his marriage.

Before this man "comes clean" he needs to do a lot of introspective thinking to decide exactly where he is in his life. Once he makes that decision, he can then move forward with confidence in the direction he chooses.
I believe in honesty, but not always at the expense of bringing unnecessary pain to others. - EBF

I'm quoting myself here...

I think we are all thinking along the same lines on this subject. Isolated event? Why take the risk? Lifestyle choice/decision? Then anything other than coming forth would be deception.

I still believe in the introspective thinking thing. He needs to decide what he is and where he wants to go with his life before breaking the news to anyone. Part of my rationale for that is simply that on various occasions in my life, I've thought, without a doubt, that something was what I wanted for the rest of my life...but given a little thought, decided differently.

A silly example, but...when I lived in Ohio, I was miserable in the cold and snow, etc. One Thanksgiving, I went to Florida to visit a friend. Glorius weather, sunshine, wearing shorts, beaches. Back to Ohio determined to move to Florida. Another trip down there, house hunting...back to Ohio, packing boxes with FLORIDA written all over them...came to Dallas one weekend to eat at Mia's...and realized I didn't want to move to Florida. I wanted to move back to Dallas as my plans had always been. But I got caught up in the sun and fun of Florida when the weather in Ohio was so miserable and cold. During that time of cold misery, all I could think of was never spending another even chilly day without sun. The reality was I was Texan, not Floridian and I've always thanked my lucky stars I didn't move to Florida.

This man is in the same situationand needs to decide what he really and truely wants...then male his tell or no-tell decision based on that. Don't make any life-altering decisions based on a single experience. - EBF

CABob · 08-24-2003, 10:14 PM

Tell, don't tell, lie, don't lie. bi, not bi. And all this drama from one 3-some? Do yourself a favor and come to grips with who you really are. Tell if you want to tell. Lie if you can remember a lie forever. And if sucking cock gets you off, your bi

OhioCouple · 08-24-2003, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by saranmark

If he is concentrating that much on the possibility of it happening again, than the probable outcome is that it will happen again. I stand firm in my belief that in this case, his wife deserves to know. If it happens again and he doesn't tell her, it is a cut and dried instance of deception.

You said it all right there in this paragraph, Sara. That is exactly how I view it.

Chicup · 08-24-2003, 11:33 PM

Slightly off topic here, I don't agree at all that you MUST tell.

Sometimes I think people like to unburden their souls out of selfishness. If you screwed up and cheated and feel guilty, its only hurting you. If you tell your spouse, now its hurting them instead.

Honnesty is great, but total honnesty isn't always a good thing. Next time you go to work be totally honest with everyone about how you feel about them, and what you think about them and see how popular you are at the end of the day :slam"

Tell me this, if you cheated, feel horrible, and don't want to do it again, what is gained by telling the spouse?

saranmark · 08-25-2003, 12:21 PM

Nothing, Chicup. Nothing at all. IF it is not going to happen again.

The question that most of us here seem to have is: IS it going to happen again? IF it does, and it seems that he is indeed going to do it again (as he is fantasizing about it constantly) then it is necessary to tell.

S

Chicup · 08-25-2003, 07:07 PM

Which is exactly why he needs to decide if he is bi.

(And personaly I say yes he is, but not being bi I have no real basis to decide for him)

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08-23-2003, 06:33 PM	#16 (permalink)
saranmark Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 154 Location: Elkhart, IN Status: Married Couple-female half	I absolutely agree, EBF. I have one concern about something else... Bear, I always respect your opinions and more than half of the time agree with you. BUT, what if he chooses not to tell his wife, asks the other couple to NOT tell his wife, either, and one of them accidently lets it slip? We all know that the majority of damage done in a relationship is due to the hurt caused by dishonesty. I would be incredibly hurt if my husband didn't tell me and also asked the other couple not to tell me. I would feel foolish and embarassed, as well as hurt. It would make the situation messier than it already was. I agree 100% with EBF's opinion that if this is something that you want to pursue again, you need to tell your wife. If it is something that you honestly don't think will happen again, I don't feel you really need to tell her unless you are planning on playing with that couple again. I simply wouldn't be able to trust that in the heat of the moment one of them woudn't accidentally say something. I also agree with the majority here and say that there really isn't a need to label yourself. You enjoy what you enjoy. Period. But be honest with yourself, and if you honestly think you are inclined to participate in sexual activities with men in the future, your wife deserves to know. Just my thoughts.... SARA
	__________________ You know what they say: When in Rome, do... a Roman!!

08-23-2003, 07:28 PM	#17 (permalink)
OhioCouple Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,619 Location: Ohio Status: Married Female	As the female half of this couple, I would be very upset to learn second hand that something had occured that he didn't share with me. Finding out down the road is not a cool thing to do. I think you should tell your wife and then gauge how she feels from there. I, (personally) would not be upset if my husband said "Babe, while you weren't involved because of (insert reason), I explored a part of my sexuality that I'd like to explore it further. How do you feel about that?" I think hiding it is the WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, thing to do. In my opinion, you should tell her. Once you start hiding things, it just becomes worse. Maybe she won't be receptive, maybe she will. You won't know tho, until you ask. Let's face it. We are talking swinging here, where COMMUNICATION is the key to every thing. When you fail to communicate...you fail in not only swinging, but your personal relationship too.
	__________________ Remember that human beings are complicated creatures. We like our bedtime routines but dislike routine in our bed times. - Sallie Foley, M.S.W.

08-24-2003, 11:22 AM	#20 (permalink)
OhioCouple Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,619 Location: Ohio Status: Married Female	I do understand both your and Bear's side, EBF. My comments are directly related to the fact of Hfnster01's statement that he is 'fixated on another steamy encounter'. The written words do not relay that it was only something that happened in the heat of the moment, it felt good...etc. The written words say that he enjoyed this and lusts for more. To me that is a big difference. In my mind that means he has a strong urging for more and those sort of feelings just don't go away. To not relay it to his wife, it may result in cheating, lying and tons of guilt. Then a whole lot of people get hurt as opposed to just one or the other. In my opinion it is better to have it out in the open and deal with it from there.
	__________________ Remember that human beings are complicated creatures. We like our bedtime routines but dislike routine in our bed times. - Sallie Foley, M.S.W.

08-24-2003, 11:50 AM	#21 (permalink)
hmr hmr Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 421 Location: Roanoke,VA Status: Couple Swing Lifestyle Name:hmr	Considering he was asking for advice on how to deal with this and it seems to have come down to a tell or not tell, I'm going to put in my 2 cents worth. When confronted with a similar situation, with feelings, not action, and knowing my wife was Not bi, we discussed it in fantsy mode.I was not sure of my wifes reaction, so when checking out messages from bi males on the net, she commented that so and so was bi. She was definitely attracted to this guy. I told her we'd meet and not to worry on my part. This lead into a discussion on the subject over time, with me putting out feelers on her response, without any hurt feelings. One of the reasons I had thought this might be a touchy subject, was we were out of swinging for 2 years. This was due to a bad experience we had with a couple. when we got to the room after a swingers meet and greet was when we found out the male was impotent. We should have left then, but being relative newbies, descided to try it out . It started with the female half and I having our fun and the male half performing oral on my wife. Then the female half positioned herself to take over for the husband. When my wife opened her eyes again, she kind of got upset. Now, as I said, we were new and had not really discussed the rules between ourselves, never mind knowing to do that with another couple. Now everything is openly discussed beforehand and there are no more hurt feelings. We have also discussed all and if I want to go there it is no problem, although I have not yet. In fact, we were at a party just last night and although there were many bi women, my wife told everyone in the beginning and there was no problem after that. We just had a ball!!! So, just feel it out, with out saying what happened. Then if she is receptive, discuss in full the details.
	__________________ hmr

08-24-2003, 02:47 PM	#22 (permalink)
saranmark Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 154 Location: Elkhart, IN Status: Married Couple-female half	Thank you, Ohiocouple-- that was the point I was really trying to make... I too, was concentrating on the statement that he was "fixating on another steamy encounter". If he is concentrating that much on the possibility of it happening again, than the probable outcome is that it will happen again. I stand firm in my belief that in this case, his wife deserves to know. If it happens again and he doesn't tell her, it is a cut and dried instance of deception. Deception wrecks marriages. One of the core values of the Swing Lifestyle is honesty. That is the difference between swinging and cheating. If you blur that line, you are asking for trouble. I have already said that I understand your viewpoint, Bear. I do. I only said that he should tell her about this one encounter IF they are planning on playing with this other couple again. There is no way he can be sure that his secret would not get revealed in the heat of a moment. If he is not planning on swinging with that couple again, and if he has decided not to participate sexually with another man again, than I agree it might cause more harm than good to tell her. But by reading his post, it is clear to me that he is really desiring to be with a man again. In which case, it is deceiving his wife by keeping this a secret. That is my opinion as a female half of a married couple. I am simply putting myself in his wife's position and trying to think of what I would want to happen. I sincerely hope that hfinster01 lets us know what happens! Enjoy your weekend! SARA
	__________________ You know what they say: When in Rome, do... a Roman!!

08-24-2003, 03:40 PM	#23 (permalink)
bear_n_bunny Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 465 Location: Houston, Texas Status: Happily Married Couple Swing Lifestyle Name:bear_n_bunny	I have to admit, I am curious how this turned out. We have not heard anything from hfinster as far as I know. -- Bear

08-24-2003, 03:56 PM	#24 (permalink)
Chicup Not a potential *** Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 4,093 Location: Under the bed Status: Tired	Personally I think the telling or not telling depends on the answer to the question 'Am I bi'. If it was a heat of the moment type of thing, then there is little point in telling and it may well upset his wife. My wife is mildly bi, (only with really good friends), but finds male homosexuality really disgusting. If I had such an episode, I don't think telling her would be a good thing. On the other hand if you find you really ARE bi, then telling is important and 'worth the risk'. Not telling is denying who you are, which is never a good thing.

08-24-2003, 10:14 PM	#26 (permalink)
CABob Here to Stay Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71 Location: CA, Bay Area Status: Swingle Man	2b, or not 2b......bi Tell, don't tell, lie, don't lie. bi, not bi. And all this drama from one 3-some? Do yourself a favor and come to grips with who you really are. Tell if you want to tell. Lie if you can remember a lie forever. And if sucking cock gets you off, your bi
	__________________ Every so often, I try to masturbate a large word into conversation, even if I'm not really sure what it means.

08-24-2003, 11:33 PM	#28 (permalink)
Chicup Not a potential *** Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 4,093 Location: Under the bed Status: Tired	Slightly off topic here, I don't agree at all that you MUST tell. Sometimes I think people like to unburden their souls out of selfishness. If you screwed up and cheated and feel guilty, its only hurting you. If you tell your spouse, now its hurting them instead. Honnesty is great, but total honnesty isn't always a good thing. Next time you go to work be totally honest with everyone about how you feel about them, and what you think about them and see how popular you are at the end of the day :slam" Tell me this, if you cheated, feel horrible, and don't want to do it again, what is gained by telling the spouse?

08-25-2003, 12:21 PM	#29 (permalink)
saranmark Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 154 Location: Elkhart, IN Status: Married Couple-female half	Nothing, Chicup. Nothing at all. IF it is not going to happen again. The question that most of us here seem to have is: IS it going to happen again? IF it does, and it seems that he is indeed going to do it again (as he is fantasizing about it constantly) then it is necessary to tell. S
	__________________ You know what they say: When in Rome, do... a Roman!!

08-25-2003, 07:07 PM	#30 (permalink)
Chicup Not a potential *** Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 4,093 Location: Under the bed Status: Tired	Which is exactly why he needs to decide if he is bi. (And personaly I say yes he is, but not being bi I have no real basis to decide for him)

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