Male Bisexuality

[JustAskJulie]

This is a carry-over question from tonight's live chat.

Why is it ok for women to be bisexual (and even encouraged for that matter) but it is looked down upon for guys to be bisexual?

(Some thoughts that came up in chat)....

Are men who are bi automatically seen as being GAY, whereas women can still be bisexual and be accepted?

Does it all come down to the way men are raised to not be touchy feely?

[Ashley]

I have had lengthy chats about this with a male friend of mine that is bi-curious. We came to the conclusion that women can be bi-sexual without having their femininity called into question but men cannot. Since in a male to male interaction, one of them has to be "receptive", it makes him seem less masculine. I'm not saying it should be that way, just is....in our opinion.

[BBgurl]

Great question. Not to knock men down, but women are always known to be multi-tasked and can deal with things in a broader way than men can. With men, they see things either black or white, plain and simple.......asking a man to see Gray is not in their nature. That is not a bad thing though, so dont get me wrong. But we as women have the gift to see the whole rainbow!!!
I am lucky to have a male friend who is not bi-sexual, but is very open to different sexual acts that just so may happen to involve having contact with another man. This is sooooooooo rare. But he doesnt consider himself bi, and neither do I.

[imsnowman]

Originally posted by BBgurl
Great question. Not to knock men down, but women are always known to be multi-tasked and can deal with things in a broader way than men can. With men, they see things either black or white, plain and simple.......asking a man to see Gray is not in their nature. That is not a bad thing though, so dont get me wrong. But we as women have the gift to see the whole rainbow!!!

Maybe the men in your life are black and white but you might reconsider lumping us all together. I've met plenty of "rainbow-blind" women BTW.

I am lucky to have a male friend who is not bi-sexual, but is very open to different sexual acts that just so may happen to involve having contact with another man. This is sooooooooo rare. But he doesnt consider himself bi, and neither do I.

Why doesn't he consider himself bi? His answer would be an answer for the original question.

[BBgurl]

imsnowman, I totally agree, there are some seriously rainbow blind women out there. Like I said, I am not knocking all men, but usually men are more straight and narrow minded, and that is not a bad thing. Keeps us balanced.

I would like to know his answer for that as well. I do know that he does not have relationships with men, or even has an interest to do so. Its just that we enjoy some complex sexual acts.......and it just flows that way.

[Bob123]

Originally posted by Ashley
I have had lengthy chats about this with a male friend of mine that is bi-curious. We came to the conclusion that women can be bi-sexual without having their femininity called into question but men cannot. Since in a male to male interaction, one of them has to be "receptive", it makes him seem less masculine. I'm not saying it should be that way, just is....in our opinion.

Why is it that being with another woman doesn't make women seem less feminine. I am sure one of them would have to be "dominant". Society seems to regulate male behavor more. Woman can wear any cloths they want but when a man wears womans cloths some seem to think he has issues.

[jen]

but when a man wears womans cloths some seem to think he has issues.

Every one has issues. Some people wear them. Some people overcome them. Some just find a way to cope.

About a bi-sex mail;

If he is happy, why shouldn't I be happy for/with/around him?

[bear_n_bunny]

I recall a discussion I had about this very subject with someone who was an old hand at swinging back when I was a newbie. Being rather naive about it all at the time, I commented on how there were quite a few bi women in the lifestyle, but wondered where the bi men were (I was thinking in terms of the politically correct times in which we live, plus my g/f at the time was bi). And I got an earful. It appears that this is one of the big double standards, not only in swinging, but in society in general. By and large it's "OK" for a woman to walk both sides of the street (people will still tend to look askance at a bi female, but generally don't get into quite the snit about it that they do over bi males). But if it gets out that a man is bisexual, he is usually declared persona non grata by the group and ostracized. The interesting thing was that apparently there are quite a few bi men in swinging, they just keep quiet about it unless they trust you, for the aforementioned reasons. Also, I was told that the women did not get quite as upset about a man being bi as other men did; apparently the dumb s.o.b.'s think it will rub off on them...

As an interesting aside, it also seems that bisexual people catch just as much grief from gays as they do straights. Sort of like "the straights think you're gay, and the gays think you're gay but faking it, "in denial", etc".


Oh well, like the man said, "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity"...

[BettyAnnMBSC]

We've considered this issue at length many times.

I tend to think that it does have something to do with learned gender roles.

A woman's cuddle instinct isn't confined to men only. She can safely express her emotions more readily. A man is instructed to maintain his masculinity from an early age and therefor isn't as inclined to cuddle with a guy at all.

As for the dominant partner idea; In some relations, there is no dominant partner -- there is a mutual pairing. So, the dominance of masculinity is not an issue. But, men are taught that they are to be the dominant partner (lest they be called wimp) -- and therefor in a MM bi-sexual encounter, perception is that one often must be "the reciever" and therefor the corrolary to the female reciever.

Considering an MM encounter though -- if both men perform oral sex on the other then which is the dominant partner? It isn't required in the mutuality that either be dominant. If one man takes the role of bottom then he has clearly accepted the traditionally feminine role while the other maintains his traditional male role. Yet, if they take turns at the bottom role then there is only a temporary dominance issue.

It seems to me then that the dominance of role issue is one of perception and not practice. It's an issue too, that many men who are not bi are concerned that they will have their man card taken away if they accept the very role that they prefer their women to accept.

There is that further concern among some men that MM sexuality must always include either providing oral sex for the other man or (forbid) recieving anal sex. I think that many men have heard from we ladies enough about anal sex that they're affraid of it. And then, there is the safety issue there....

I think too that many men are concerned about how their SO will respond to their desire to be with a man. Unless the woman has made it clear that she finds MM stimulating to her -- he will be concerned that she will think he is a wimp. For the most part, media and men in general have made it clear that two women is their No.1 fantasy -- we ladies have little to worry about if we express an interest in women, we've been taught that "he'll think that's hot" while he's been taught that if he has sex with a man then we'll think he's effeminate.

Maybe it's a function of media and an unlcarified gender role issue. I personally think that any man that wants to have anal sex with a woman (me) should recieve anal sex first. He might even get some ideas on how to do it even better.

[MattMann]

It is definitely a societal thing. Women in our modern society have broken free from gender roles imposed on them and have a multitude of options available to them, while men don't seem to be afforded as many choices without fear of society frowning on those choices. I don't think the inequities are mentioned much because most men don't really want those choices, but to be fair: women can wear their hair short or long with no stigma but even today men with long hair get at least razzed about it, women can wear "mens" clothes: pants, dress shirts, even ties if they want - there is no limit, but of course men are strictly forbidden to stray outside the men's section, even wearing pink is iffy. Women can pursue any career, but if a man wants to be a nurse, there is still a stigma he faces, likewise a babysitter or child care giver, he is mistrusted. The same goes on and on for jewelry, makeup, showing emotion, showing affection for friends of the same sex, etc.

As for bisexuality, I have heard many women say they don't think two men together is pleasant to even think about much less a turn on, but I have heard other women say they would find it a turn on. I think if men knew it turned women on, and other men wouldn't disapprove, they would be all for it, as that is a motivating factor for men doing all kinds of things.

[St. Augustine]

I personally think that any man that wants to have anal sex with a woman (me) should recieve anal sex first. He might even get some ideas on how to do it even better.

[Mike] Good point.

[BettyAnnMBSC]

Women can pursue any career, but if a man wants to be a nurse, there is still a stigma he faces,

my husband was an RN in the 80's and early 90's -- he used that gender inequality issue to move up in that world very fast. It seems that men in nursing could then move into administration with far less trouble than the women.

But, considering gender roles and perception of men....

If I told you that:
my husband is a retired disabled veteran of the first Gulf War. He served in the Army and Army Reserve for 18 years before his injuries from the war forced him to retire. In the Army, he attended both the Infantry and Engineer schools among others. He has a class A commercial driver's license too -- shame he can't do that work any more, it pays very well. After he retired he was a coach at an NCAA-II college but then we moved here so I could go back to school.

then our initial perception would be "masculine" -- probably outdoorsy and definately not the least bit fem

If I were to tell you instead:
My husband was an RN for more than a few years. He's also a very accomplished musician, he plays flute and piccolo very well. On top of that, he knows how to do hair and makeup! His theatre experience in costuming taught him to sew and to size a woman on sight. He's great to take shopping for clothes, he's got fantastic style sense...

then our initial perception would be he's gay "Barbara Streisand ticket holding, friend of Dorothy"

Yet both of these statements about him are true. In his case, he has used those perceptions to his advantage -- but I know that he still takes issue with the "appearing gay" thing. It's a matter of gender role expectations -- many men believe that they are "less man" if they are percieved as bi or gay.

[MattMann]

You have a valid point. My wife is an RN and has mentioned several times to me that the male nurses were consulted more and taken more seriously by the hospital (I assumed she meant the male doctors) than the female nurses. So I agree the stigma male nurses face lies more in the general public than in the actual medical community.

I applaud your husband's using others unfair perceptions of him to his advantage, I believe there are several groups and subgroups of people who do the same thing when they can.

[alabamafuntonig]

Male bi-sexuality in the minds of society is looked down upon due to the negative media attention it gets. While just the opposite for the ladies. Movies always portray cute skinny young women in lusty f/f scenes. Hollywood is fascinated by bisexual women so until Hollywood makes a rave about bi-sexual men were screwed.

I think it may be a visual thing, for a lot of people, seeing two woman together certainly seems alot more attractive and natural than two men. I really don't know anyone who isn't gay including woman that find the idea of two men together a turn on.

Of course there's always exceptions but for many woman any fantasies they have dealing with two men seem to involve them pampering her.. not each other

Actually we got together with a group of friends recently and we got into one of those question asking modes where you go around and ask any questions you want of anyone there. The woman present were asked about their thoughts on the MMF threesome, and they seemed to think that any guy that would even participate in a MMF is gay.

Thou they were non-swinging friends (to the best of our knowledge). And I'd think it would be fair to say that they were not necessarily speaking their true feelings in that setting.
(I know this as even my wife went along with their comments for fear of getting labeled!)