The Definition of "Good Sex"

[Spoomonkey]

I was reading "Men's Health" today - my favorite magazine to "clip and save" articles from. One of the articles touches on the idea of "what is good sex?"

Basically, the point they make is that "good sex" is going to be different from one person to the other. I am pretty sure this is true - and a VERY important thing for folks in the lifestyle to learn. What is good for Mrs Spoo may be terrible for someone else - and visa versa (isn't it always "visa versa" really? Do I really need to say that???)

We've posted here before that - at Spoomonkey Ranch - our sex is typically rough and aggressive and furniture rattling. We do "slow and tender" like an Ultimate Fighter might do brain surgery. But that works for us.

This weekend, I had the chance to play with a woman that I have lusted after for years. And while the experience of just being with her was incredible, I could tell that we were not on the same page ultimately. She was one of those women who finished once and was pretty much done. That is fairly unique to me, so I had to kind of "fake it" to let her off the hook (in most cases, I last a while and felt like I might hurt her if I kept going - or hurt her feelings if I didn't pretend like I had "arrived").

Her husband - a nice looking guy in his own right - moved fairly quickly from one step to the next as he rushed towards his orgasm. Mrs Spoo had to fake her way through it as well (they are a really great couple and a lot of fun to be with, please don't take this wrong). It seemed like he had simply learned to go at a pace that would be comfortable for his wife - both get to one and then bask in the afterglow.

So this doesn't sound like a dig (they don't read here, but still...) we'd play with them again in a heartbeat. They were a blast really - a lot of fun - but they just did things differently. And they make a great example for this thread.

My question is - what is "good sex"? How do you define it? Do women have a wider spectrum of interest - or do men? And how - as a swinger - do you adjust to try to be a good playmate with as many people as possible (I think it is pretty clear that you can't "please 'em all")?

If the article is correct when it says that: "the best sex is sex tailored to the person in bed with you." How do you "tailor" yourself? Or do you?

Personally - with every new playmate, I hold back - a lot. I try not to cross any unseen lines or do anything too aggressive without knowing what my playmates might like. But still, it is fairly athletic, I think. It just takes a VERY long time for me to really "be myself". In fact, I can only think of a couple experiences with playmates where I really felt like I was myself.

I am curious what you all think.

Spoomonkey

[VanHlebar]

Wow...good question. My first answer to this was going to be...is there really a thing called bad sex? I mean...really I can't think of a time I had "bad sex". Now some has been better than others but none of it has ever been bad that I can remember.

When I am with a new playmate I tend to hold back also. I think that might be pretty normal, but I am not sure. Like you, I would hate to cross some invisible line and accidentally hurt someones feelings (husband or wife). I hold be so much so that normally the first couple of times out, I won't even as my playmate to switch to different positions other than missionary unless she wants to. It's not that I don't like to, but I just feel odd requesting or attempting it at first.

I'll have to let MrsVan answer for her tastes, but for me I have a pretty wife range of what I like. It all depends on the mood that I am in. I can go for the slow, easy soft type to the really rough, hair pulling and ass spanking to even a little bit of bondage. Now, I can't imagine having the really rough type sex with a playmate, at least not until I was extremely comfortable with the couple.

I guess I can understand what you mean by having a playmate whose sexual tendencies don't quite match up with the way you are used to doing things, but again as I said at the beginning and you even touched on it...is there really bad sex? I mean you even said that with all the happened that evening...you would still play again with this couple, so really, is there such a thing?

-Van

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by VanHlebar

is there really bad sex?

For guys, probably not...



It reminds me of a Howard Stern episode I saw (at the club one night while hanging out in the office). They were having a "micro-phallus" contest and these guys were freakishly small. Howard asked one guy (and I guess this is actually an old joke, but they used it on the show) "who are you going to please with that thing?" The guy answered proudly, "me!"

Actually, though, I have had bad sex as a guy. It was so bad that my playmate - completely unable to find a single button that would work with me, and I am fairly easy to figure out - leaned over and asked Mrs Spoo, "what does he like?"

The answer, which Mrs Spoo was too kind to actually give, was, "don't worry. You can't do it..."



Spoomonkey

[graygo98]

First times are just exciting for being exciting... nothing can match that thrill of anticipation when you know its really going to happen. But, to me at least, it takes two or three times with a partner to really respond to each other and relax into great (or even good) sex. And, with some partners it just isn't going to happen anyway... the totally non-responsive types who never give the sort of feedback that leads to ultimately "great sex".

Also, the "how rough" dilemna is always something you have to be attuned to. Take oral, for example. Ms G loves direct and increasingly firm attention. (So do I!) Some women, though, cannot stand even a gentle direct touch, at least at first. So, all you can do is start gently and look for subtle signs, like her grabbing your ears and wildly humping your face.

The endless variety of people is what makes the journey often more fun than the destination, good as that may be.

[havefuninsun]

Originally Posted by graygo98

But, to me at least, it takes two or three times with a partner to really respond to each other and relax into great (or even good) sex.

Hell, I'd say longer than that.

Great sex to me has an emotional component; good sex doesn't always have to have anything emotional to it.

You gotta remember these magazines assume you're in some sort of relationship with whomever you're having sex with ... and although I have a friendly relationship with my play partners, it's just not the same.

I will say some of the most fun I've had have been when I was double- or triple teamed. Can't get that at home

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by graygo98

it takes two or three times with a partner to really respond to each other and relax into great (or even good) sex.

I agree. That many times at least - probably more. It has been more for me anyway.

Funny story - the first time I heard someone say that, we'd been in the lifestyle almost two years. It was a single female that we'd played with twice. She told us her theory was that it took three times to get to having really good sex. "We're almost there!" we all laughed, thinking it was just a matter of time (even though the group consensus was that it was already pretty darn good already).

Then, she disappeared from our lives

So - she never got to test her theory...

Spoomonkey

[Mrs Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

Personally - with every new playmate, I hold back - a lot. I try not to cross any unseen lines or do anything too aggressive without knowing what my playmates might like. But still, it is fairly athletic, I think.

Just a quick note here...Spoo has been called a machine by more than one playmate!!! So that tells you what his "holding back" is

What is "good sex" I told Spoo that a lot of times in the lifestyle you don't get a second or third chance with a playmate. Waiting to let go or get comfortable might not always work. While Spoo and I have always wanted to have friends in the lifestyle that we can have sex with beyond a couple of times and do vanilla things with, the reality of that has fallen far short. We are not bed notchers but in looking back over the last four years we have had more one timers than we'd care to admit too. The reasons for that are many...but I have to say sadly that it probably boiled down to just bad sex. Maybe we were bad to them Nah that couldn't be it Or they were bad for us.

What makes it bad (for me) ...

No chemistry to begin with. We have a new rule after the obvious happened to us. Spoo hit it off with the wife...there was flirting, a pool game bet, dancing. With the husband while I got a little bit of flirting during the pool game there wasn't much else and it carried over to the room. When he folded his clothes on the chair (the rest of us flung ours to the floor), did his 3 point check (oral for me, put on a condom...that didn't work, oral for him and he's done), then got dressed and sat on the chair. Now that is bad sex! Spoo took care of me and his wife. So the rule is there has to be 4 way chemistry going on before we even mention heading upstairs.

If we are only going to get one chance to impress in order to get another shot with a couple or even a single then there are some things that have to be done on both my part and my playmate for both of us to have "good sex". No one is going to do what Spoo does to me, there's a connection that can't be matched. So...don't ask me what I like. I never told Spoo he just did and discovered. We're in the lifestyle not to duplicate but to experience. We've both learned lots of new things and techniques. So do what you know and watch for clues as to whether or not your playmate is enjoying it.

Enjoy your playmate!! Sounds simple but I've been with guys that are either all about themselves, pushing the wives to be together, worring about what Spoo and their wife is doing, checking the time, or going through the mechanics (yes we can tell ). I've told Spoo on the occasions that I would say I had "good sex" with a playmate that I felt like they were glad to be with me. Not that they had any special secret techniques or tricks that no one else has ever done but we just had fun, enjoyed the newness of being with a playmate that you had some chemistry and attraction too...maybe even laughing when we're trying to move around and see if we like a position that him and his wife like, or working out the logistics of 4 people on a double or queen bed. That to me makes good sex!! A connection, attraction and just enjoying each other.

Mrs Spoomonkey

[VanHlebar]

Originally Posted by Mrs Spoomonkey

I told Spoo that a lot of times in the lifestyle you don't get a second or third chance with a playmate. Waiting to let go or get comfortable might not always work.

I agree, but for me my problem comes with I really don't want to offend either the husband or the wife of our new playmates. Example-It has taken me years to be comfortable with spanking MrsVan, even though she likes that at times. Even when I know for a fact that the wife likes to be spanked, I really have a hard time doing so for fear of offending either her or her husband. I know that is a bad example, but it's the only one I can come up with right now.

Yes having more friends that we could also have some good play times with would be fantastic, but I am quickly coming to realize that I am not sure this will occur very often. We do have a few that we would consider friends AND playmates, but finding them is very difficult.

Originally Posted by Mrs Spoomonkey

With the husband while I got a little bit of flirting during the pool game there wasn't much else and it carried over to the room. When he folded his clothes on the chair (the rest of us flung ours to the floor), did his 3 point check (oral for me, put on a condom...that didn't work, oral for him and he's done), then got dressed and sat on the chair. Now that is bad sex! Spoo took care of me and his wife.

Did anyone check to see if this guy still had a pulse? Did anyone ask if he might be more bi than straight! I mean come on...for those that have had the pleasure of meeting Mrs Spoo, you all know what I mean!

-Van

[good times]

Originally Posted by Mrs Spoomonkey

Enjoy your playmate!! Sounds simple but I've been with guys that are either all about themselves, pushing the wives to be together, worring about what Spoo and their wife is doing, checking the time, or going through the mechanics (yes we can tell ). I've told Spoo on the occasions that I would say I had "good sex" with a playmate that I felt like they were glad to be with me.

This is exactly it for me, I like a woman who shows some enthusiasm, who when you are having sex with her is obviously enjoying being with you. Nothing is more of a turn off for me than the woman who, once you get in the room, strips and says in a bland uninterested voice, "where do you want me?". This has happened more than once and it never gets any better from there.

The only other problem we have encountered is similar to what happened to you and involves how long or the time span you are used to having sex. I have probably told this story before but it goes along with the example you gave above. Their was a woman that we saw regularly at the club that I had lusted after for some time. Finally the opportunity came to play with this couple. It happened really fast and I was totally unprepared, Mrs. GT came up to me when I was talking to some other folks and said, "come on, your finally going to get your chance to play with June (not her real name)". So we went in the play room and got started, but before I was even completely undressed, maybe 5 minutes if I am generous, the husband climaxed and he and Mrs. GT were done. June says to me, "Oh well, maybe some other time" and gets up and starts getting dressed. Then when we were back in the bar she starts telling me not to worry about it, "it happens to everybody". I am thinking, "what the heck is she talking about". She obviously sees my confusion and says to me that even her husband has had problems getting it up once in a while. Up to that point I never had, "trouble getting it up" or at least I didn't think I did. But that one statement from her ruined me for months. Because after that I was so self conscious about it, and worried about being able to get it up fast enough, that I did start to have performance problems with almost everyone we hooked up with. In retrospect, after having many more sexual partners that are more in tune with my way of having sex I learned that it is as you have said, they were used to each other. There idea of good sex is sex that lasts only 2-5 minutes and I just can't do it that fast, heck, it usually takes me 10-15 minutes, to get enthused enough to get a good woody.

edit - Are you a real swinger when it takes you 15 minutes to think of a fake name for your story on the swingers board that doesn't match any of the partners you have had. I am pretty sure I have never had sex with anyone named June, but I can't guarantee it.

[mrs good times]

Originally Posted by graygo98

But, to me at least, it takes two or three times with a partner to really respond to each other and relax into great (or even good) sex.

I have also made this statement to Mr. GT. I find that I tend to be somewhat fake the first few times. I am busy trying to figure out what my partner likes and dislikes rather than just getting into the moment. I don't generally really let go and enjoy myself until the third time. The unfortunate part of the story is that I can count the number of couples we have played with three times or more on one hand.

I have had "bad" sex, the kind that you wish you could wash away forever but like a horror movie the scene won't go away. Fortunately that is a minority or we wouldn't still be in the lifestyle. I have had lots of "good" sex and some "great" sex so I am willing to keep searching for more of the latter.

[SW_PA_Couple]

My Dad, a WWII and Korea Conflict pilot, says that, "Any landing you walk away from is a good landing." I will loosly paraphrase. Any sex from which you walk away feeling satisfied is good sex. I hope I do not make myself seem insensitive. If a sex partner wants something different or perceives something I could be doing better, I expect she will, in some way or another, communicate it. To sum it up, sex is selfish.

[graygo98]

Originally Posted by SW_PA_Couple

To sum it up, sex is selfish.

Well sure, it can be. At least you can look at the less than great encounters that way. "I got off and that's good enough".

Good sex, and especially great sex, though is more like a fire to me than a mechanical process. It feeds on oxygen. A partner that really gets into it is like that oxygen. It gets me hotter and more intense. And that can feed back to and drive your partner higher too. Its simply not comparable to "meat and friction" sex. Unfortunately, it is also a bit rare but happens often enough to keep an optimist like me believing. But, I suppose that seeking out those experiences for what it does for me is kinda selfish to, isn't it?

(I apologize if the metaphor is a bit (lot) lame. Just seemed to be the closest I could come up with. Need to work on the English language more)

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by SW_PA_Couple

To sum it up, sex is selfish.

Good sex isn't...

Good sex is a fun balance of give and take - like the perfect motion of a well balanced machine. In comes the energy - out goes the energy in equal measure.

It may be considered a good landing if you walked away from it, but how was it for the plane?

Spoomonkey

[SW_PA_Couple]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

Good sex isn't...
It may be considered a good landing if you walked away from it, but how was it for the plane?

Touché

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by SW_PA_Couple

Touché

Spoomonkey