Hubby and I had a disagreement and I would like the opinion on the board whether I am being unreasonable. I expressed to him that I would be uncomfortable for him to kiss the other female. He told me that he would "try".
uh oh. For me this is a big RED FLAG, and one of the reasons I am so very hesitant to be involved in swinging. Note, we are simply at the discussion stage, and I currently am seeing a therapist while resolving some "issues" about swinging, me and our relationship.
My stance is that the statement "I'll try" wasn't good enough. I wanted him to agree that for my comfort zone that he would agree NOT to go somewhere that I wasn't ready to go. I also stated that IF the other woman, or her husband (or bf) told him DON'T KISS HER (me), that he wouldn't do it. Simple, and no questions asked.
If I am being unreasonable about going into this with some limitations of what I am comfortable, or uncomfortable about, then please let me know. I realize that this is perhaps "airing our dirty laundry", however, it seems that if we are not on the same page with what WE (after all....doesn't want I want or not want ALSO count?) then another couple is not going to take the chance with us, which is the whole point of swinging.
GADS. I am a big enough person to be told that I am wrong, and if I am, someone tell me. I am not standing on my high horse, dicating what we will or will not do (if that were the case, I am not sure that I would be even REMOTELY involved in trying to figure this all out)! zI AM saying that this would be easier for me if we could have some agreement about our activities.
Thanks for your response.
(if we ever get through all the issues, I'll be signing on as Rusted Halo. gheesh.)
When I tell someone I'll "try" to do or not do something like that...it means I might or I might not. Simple as that. In other words, I have no intention to commit. Then later, if I do it (or don't do it as the case may be), it is so easy to say, "Well, golly gee...I TRIED!"
So you now know what I think of that comment.
Gotta give ya credit! You're hanging in there...- EBF
A lot of people have the kissing issue. Some people think that they have to keep something special that they save for when they are together. And a lot of people use kissing as that line.
We personaly do not. Watching mrs naughty passionately kiss another man is a wonderful thing for me. But I am not saying you are unreasonable at all. Actualy it is a pretty simple boundry especialy just getting started. most folks seem to have a whole list of things that are off limits when starting out then cross them off the list as they get more comfortable.
Mrs naughty can do pretty much wat ever she wants with another man. The difference for me is whatever she is doing with the other man it is just sex. Just having fun.
When she does it with me it is more than sex. It is Love.
That is what we keep as our "special" thing just between us. Love
You do have every right to your limits & It is definately something that should be discussed over & over & over etc...... Most couples do have boundries..... some more then others & if your comfort level get crossed, you may loose interest in swinging & trust in your partner. If the couple your playing with knows your no kissing rule, (which is a very common one) ahead of time, there should but no "I'll try needed" because it shouldn't get to that point! If it does Move on....... stop all play instantly because that other couple dosn't repect your limits either!
Have Fun! & only do what you yourself feels compfortable doing....
If he can't give you absolutes and stick to them.. don't go there
I dont' know how many times we can say this........you go in... AS A SOLID COUPLE... who have talked and talked and researched and researched every possible scenario and even then... you will come across situations that require an off the cuff decision. Shit happens and it shouldn't land in your lap and stay there for all eternity, or long enough to wreak total havoc on and perhaps ruin your relationship.
Don't swing. Y'all are no where near a coupledom that could do that. nothing wrong with that. Enjoy each other if you can.
And..there are any number of couples who will swing with you two right now... and walk off not caring a whit about your relationship. They are more concerned for themselves, and notwithstanding the majority of swinger couples who DO care for other's relationships...this is exactly what i believe you two need to do....care more for each other and leave swinging out of it for the time being.
If you are involved with a therapist and working on 'issues' right now, maybe swinging should take a TOTAL backseat until you are more settled. That said, the no kissing rule is quite common and if you are absolut about it, then your partner should agree to it. Now, having said that, I'll tell you that when dh and I started out on our swing path, we too decided to save kissing for 'our time'...when it came time for our first experience though, kissing was just a natural part of it and neither of us experienced any jealousy. For me (AND my hubby I think), we NEED kissing to get 'warmed up'
but like I said, bottom line, if no kissing is one of your rules, then ALL should abide, including your partner
Just out of curiousity, is your hubby advocating that you BOTH swing or is he into it more for himself?
I'm not attacking you or him so please don't misconstrue what I'm writing, but swinging sounds like a real bad idea for you two right now, and I'm getting the opinion he's wanting to push you into it way against your will.
I can't believe that kissing will be your only hangup. Watching him put his bone into another woman probably will cause "limit" issues as well, don'tcha think? Anyway, if I were him, I'd certainly agree to your request. If he knows that if you can't get by that, there will be no chance of swinging, I'd guess he'll come around.
Originally posted by LikeMinds321 This statement stood out as a red flag in your candid writing.
I think you might feel better equiped to enjoy swinging after working out the issues.
Wishing you the best.
And for you original question: your limits are your limits. It does not matter if you have good or bad arguments for them or if it is just a gut feeling. If you don't want something to happen, then your husband should respect that.
You are really honest here on the board and I really appreciate it. I hope you will enjoy our honesty when saying that you do not seem ready to swing and neither does your husband.
I agree with Sexhoundog and Mrs LM - You shouldn't consider swinging at this time.
Why? In your previous posts you have stated you probably would never get into swinging and you're seeing a therapist presently to try and resolve what swinging really is and if it will negatively affect your marrage and life choices ( moral, religious, marriage vows, society, family etc). You also said previously that the swinging issue came close to breaking up your marriage. This sounds very much as if your husband persists in forcing the issue and if so that's very, very inconsiderate of your feelings. If it takes both your husband and a therapist to make you think you should take the step to please your husband think it over and over and over.
As stated many times swinging is not for everyone. Once you do it only to please your husband it's something you can never take back, and if it's not for you there will definitely arise other issues of regret between you and your husband. If it's an issue that you have to see a therapist for it's something your husband should realize may have serious complications . You and your husband really should not be mentioning it at all until your out of therapy for quite some time and only when you fully comprehend everything on your own without pressure from anyone.
As said , most people (probably 98%) do not swing and can be perfectly happy - there's enough complications in a marriage without extra pressure. I hope the best for you. You're a brave person for getting this far.
We are not swinging, but he feels that it is something that we can work out, and may possibly swing in the future. Unfortunately for me, I am a thinker, and tend to overthink many things. I am in counseling because I have low self esteem and see his desire for others as a reflection of who I am. Having said that, the opportunity for my husband to be with someone else is one desire or thought that he could not put away. Kind of like Pandora's box if you will. We had experiences that were not positive, and seem unable to resolve them without counseling for me to assist to put some things in perspective. For one, I have a great deal of difficulty in the emotional sense (not intellectual) in separating sex and love. Rationally speaking, I know the difference, I just don't feel the difference, hence, it is quite confusing for me.
I do have compassion for him in that he didn't ask to have the desires that he has, and that is part of the package that I got when we decided to spend our lives together. The communication skills necessary to address some of the issues that swinging brings up is another matter, and both he and I could certainly
improve in that area. Counseling is also helping me in that area. Swinging isn't just about the sex part, although that is the emphasis.
Had he and I both approached this before it got so out of kilter (I am referring to some unfortunate choices that he made, and my reaction to them), and given the support and love required to take those small steps while preserving our relationship, I suspect that this would not be quite so difficult for me. When one partner (those of you who are contemplating bringing up swinging, I am paying someone to help me through the damage that both he and I caused, you can get this one for free) gets ahead of the other, whether it be through knowledge, research, experience, the other partner is going to feel that they are either being set up, manipulated, or coerced. If you truly are interested in swinging, and you think your relationship can handle it, you'd better involve your partner (wife or husband) from the get go. Learn together, not wait or demand for the other of you to catch up. In some ways, that is what I am doing. He's already so far ahead of me, that it makes it seem to him that I am dragging my feet. Understandly. He's already been on all the sites, given it a lot of thought, etc. I hope what I have said is clear. I'll be happy to elaborate for those who want!
Thank you for your support. I maintain that until and unless I can make the decision as to what activity that I am comfortable with, I am going to resent the hell out of him pushing me to comply with his "desires".
As for the issue you brought up of no kissing, but maybe an okay on sex. I may disagree with everyone , I don't know.
To start off Love is an emotional binding involving trust and faith in one another and does not necessarily involve kissing or sex. There are ,however, many times one could kiss someone without an emotional attachment. You may kiss friends on greetings , with joy, or when parting without emotional ties. If you have sex with someone in a cheating situation that is something very personal and goes way beyond just kissing. Therefore , if you would swing with your spouse you would have to separate the difference between sex and love. That said , i don't think kissing is nearly as personal as sex. After all aren't body fluids exchanged during sex. In society not much is made of kissing , but sex is another story( by many sex is considered your ultimate gift or pleasure to you mate). If a spouse only kissed people I doubt you would have concerns. Again, I wish you well.
Going back to what has been said before in your other threads. You guys really should not even be TALKING about swinging. There are way too many issues that need to be taken care of and I personally don't think they are YOUR personal issues but issues between you as a couple. I know that you are seeing a therapist on your own. Have you talked to him about going with you? Marriage counseling?
And beyond that, even if everything else was ok, "I'll try" is definately not good enough.... and to be honest I don't think your guy is good enough for you. You deserve someone who will actually treat you as a person and as someone who has a say in the relationship not someone who has "issues' that need to be cleared up so that HE can have his way.
Julie, you are too kind. However....I married my husband and intend to do everything that I can to make our relationship work. Part of the marriage vows for us was through thick and thin. He did go to the counselor once, but felt as though he might be at the disadvantage and have to be defensive. He also tends to get upset when someone challenges him on his thoughts and beliefs. We thought that it was better that I have the opportunity to grow in understanding of myself, rather than put him on the hot seat about his views of relationships. Other than this one teeny tiny area (other women), we DO have a great relationship. We have been married a long time, and I do not want to dissolve our relationship over something like this. I personally do not understand him, or men in general and their ways of thinking about love and sex. That's something that I am trying to change.I know that I am old fashioned, and I really believe in our vows. I think that it is harder for older women, and women married for a long time to adjust to the idea that their husbands may harbor thoughts and desires that they perhaps were unaware of. Oh sure...there were ocassional hints and signs, and I ignored them as best I could, hoping that they would either go away, or he was just "being stupid", for lack of a better description.
In a realtionship, it doesn't always work for one partner to say no dear, I'm not interested in that, now don't ever mention it again. Basically, that is what I did. I didn't say don't mention it, but he got the message. If he would have tried to talk to me to explain what was going on, if I would have tried to talk to him instead of shutting the idea out, then maybe we could have talked about it and either made the decision to explore it together, or to abandon it as not workable for our marriage.
I know that I am not alone in this, many women do exactly this, and many men decide to try to explore either behind their wives backs, or coerice them into agreeing to join them. My husband does not want to lose our relationship either, but this is very important to him.
It is going to be easier for me to discover what it is within me that holds things as I do, to find out the things that represent love, committment, etc., than it is for him to just "forget about it sweetie"! I am NOT going to counseling to find a way that I can just swing to make him happy. Getting counseling's not a bad deal in my book, and what I can glean from it is all the better for not only me, but for him too.
We are not going to be swinging anytime soon, but the conversations about his desires almost has to take place for him to feel more complete. I don't know that he will go out and cheat (again ?), or get involved with someone online. I DO know that if I don't at least try to give him the opportunity to express himself, and do a little work on me so that I at least have a better basis of understanding why this is so difficult for me to accept, that we will both lose, and that isn't going to be something that I am going to do without doing everything that I can !
Thank you all for your support and kind comments!
I can appreciate your wanting to do anything in your power to make your marriage work and to make your husband happy. What concerns me is that he doesn't seem to want to make that same effort. His excuses for not going to counseling with you are not good reasons, only excuses. Perhaps he needs to be challenged? He needs to have someone tell him he is wrong, something that it doesn't seem you are willing to do, because you want to make him happy.
Sometimes doing what is best for people IS NOT giving them what they want. What it comes down to is that he NEEDS to be in marriage counseling with you, whether or not he wants to be... and his response of not doing so just shows that he doesn't have the same desire to do what is best for your marriage that you obviously have.