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  1. #46
    Here to Stay snapps's Avatar
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    Default Re: Real issue...we want patient and honest help please.

    Wayy too long man, but the main problem i see here is jealousy. You were way too controlling early on. And as you said what goes around comes around... Good luck though...
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  2. #47
    Swingers Board Addict padoc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Real issue...we want patient and honest help please.

    When someone looks up the word "drama" in the swinging dictionary, your photo must be there. Swinging is not for every couple and it is clearly not for you two. You bring too many rules and no apparent joy to your encounters and that can't be fun for you or your playmates. I suggest you take up bowling or some other form of recreation cause recreational sex is definitely not your forte.

  3. #48
    Canadian, eh? intuition897's Avatar
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    Default Re: Real issue...we want patient and honest help please.

    OMFG. I just spent half a fucking hour typing up a reply to this and it was a good one. I forgot to Ctrl-A/Ctrl-C it and now it's gone. SHIT!!
    Fear is a symptom of ignorance. Knowledge is the cure.

  4. #49
    anc
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    Default Re: Telling my wife and the other husband to stop...Was I wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigginIt View Post

    It takes a lot to stop play. I have seen two couples quit the lifestyle because one or the other couldn't tell the other they were uncomfortable. Its tragic.

    If you wanted my advice, you probably don't but going to give it anyways, lol. I would say that you suffered a panic attack brought on by some simple jealousy. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is your wife and you can't help but feel the way you feel.

    It wasn't jealousy in the normal sense but jealousy of what "might" have been happening. While you were with the other wife, you were not able to "supervise" (just a way to describe it) the action and you became upset over what might have been going on, what your wife might have been allowing to happen or what you thought the other man might have been doing or wanting.

    When your in the mix (threesome or group), it's you, your wife and another man then you have a measure of control over the situation and in what you described above, you didn't.

    I could be way off base but I think what you experienced is normal and time and communication will continue to improve your experiences. Keep working on them and best of luck.
    DigginIt,
    You replied to our post (http://www.swingersboard.com/forums/...lp-please.html) before with good points that we both liked. We've since been browsing around and trying to learn from others experiences. We have decided to take a break for now although we both know each of us desires to do the lifestyle again in the future. We would appreciate any advice you have to offer! Your above quote explains my (husband) problem to the tee. The only difference is "Oilsnake" stopped the play and I didn't. I endured the whole thing. I was ready to walk out on two occasions and the other husband told me to relax, which I did like a dumb ass because I was trying to prove to myself and my wife I could do it when, in fact I wasn't ready. My wife has not spoken up when she was not comfortable in the past as well. We have learned that we both hold each other so high on pedestals that we only hurt ourselves in the process of trying to please each other. Lesson learned!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DigginIt View Post
    When you have a MFM encounter and you can sit back without any intervention, enjoy the fact that your wife can freely enjoy a sexual encounter with another person and you feel happy for her then you will probably be ready.
    I have always desired to do a MFM and have come to realize it's because I've never been ready to lose control of the situation, or better yet my wife. I do however have high hopes of one day being able to do that for her. Problem is my wife DOESN'T want a MFM at all! She wants a four-some where she plans to put the female as a priority, me second, and the other guy last. I don't think that will work though.
    She's even willing to do a FMF but we all know how hard that is to find. I don't really want to do a FMF because I know I would feel greedy since I can't do the opposite for her (like I owe her something). Any suggestions???
    Last edited by LikeMinds321; 07-01-2010 at 02:48 PM. Reason: insert link to referred to thread by Oilsnake

  5. #50
    Swingers Board Addict DigginIt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Telling my wife and the other husband to stop...Was I wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by anc View Post
    DigginIt,
    You replied to our post (http://www.swingersboard.com/forums/...lp-please.html) before with good points that we both liked. We've since been browsing around and trying to learn from others experiences. We have decided to take a break for now although we both know each of us desires to do the lifestyle again in the future. We would appreciate any advice you have to offer! Your above quote explains my (husband) problem to the tee. The only difference is "Oilsnake" stopped the play and I didn't. I endured the whole thing. I was ready to walk out on two occasions and the other husband told me to relax, which I did like a dumb ass because I was trying to prove to myself and my wife I could do it when, in fact I wasn't ready. My wife has not spoken up when she was not comfortable in the past as well. We have learned that we both hold each other so high on pedestals that we only hurt ourselves in the process of trying to please each other. Lesson learned!!!



    I have always desired to do a MFM and have come to realize it's because I've never been ready to lose control of the situation, or better yet my wife. I do however have high hopes of one day being able to do that for her. Problem is my wife DOESN'T want a MFM at all! She wants a four-some where she plans to put the female as a priority, me second, and the other guy last. I don't think that will work though.
    She's even willing to do a FMF but we all know how hard that is to find. I don't really want to do a FMF because I know I would feel greedy since I can't do the opposite for her (like I owe her something). Any suggestions???
    Wow, I feel honored that you asked. This is where I preface the conversation though with the fact that Mrs. Diggs and I are far from experts and there are many people here on this board (who have helped us) that have so much more wisdom than the two of us. We talked about this a little bit and here is what we came up with. I'm not going to give any real suggestions but just some food for thought.

    Taking a break is good advice but we think you are going to find it easier said than done. That's just our opinion but something kept you two going long past the point where two reasonable people, in love, would have stopped. That's what put you two where you are right now. You like what you are doing but it's eating away at you both for different reasons but you keep going because you like what you both are getting out of it.

    It still seems like you two have a lot to talk about as you are still caught up on the wrong things like MFM, FMF or another couple and it's becoming a contest. In a contest, there is a winner and a loser and you two are making this a contest and nobody likes to lose. In a relationship, you do things to please the other person because you enjoy seeing them happy; not because you expect any kind of reciprocation. I know you two know that but we all forget sometimes.

    You can't control the situation when you swing. Yes, you may have a small measure of control with a threesome but still that's limited. You have to let go of that fear or you will never enjoy swinging and it will just build more resentment when things don't go the way you expect. In my mind, if my wife wants a MMMF (she doesn't, not yet, lol) but the point is I would be supportive and say, "sounds fun!" We find that we get more pleasure when we do things for each other unselfishly. That also means that she should be understanding to your desires and wishes as well but you should be doing it because it's what you want and not because you think you can control it.

    Take time to distinguish the difference between jealousy and envy. Something we learned early on is that you can't compare your relationship with swinging. My wife and I have really fantastic sex because we know how to please each other but the first time she was with another man who knew what he was doing, she moaned differently, screamed, bit, scratched and had sex like we haven't had since we were first married. You have experienced this first hand and the side effects were you going limp. It is a little overwhelming and many of us (including me) take things like Cialis because there is a lot going on and it's distracting. My wife looks at me every once in awhile to "wink" and give me that "I still love you" look but then she is back to giving her partner the full experience. It's what I'm trying to give the other woman, my full attention and hopefully a fully functioning cock, lol. The benefit is that I have gotten to do things that my wife normally will not do for me. There were many points in your other post where I think you two were less than honest with each other and was a big part of the problem.

    Getting back to my point, we were not jealous of each other but there was that envy of something you have not had in awhile. We talked about these things and even tried a few of the things that had made us envious and we actually laughed a few times because while it was fun with the other couple, it just wasn't as fun with us and we realized that it was only the excitement of the moment that made it fun. That was the exact reason we got into swinging in the first place to get those "wow" feelings again. Once we realized that, it was like an epiphany and our experiences have only gotten better and better ever since.

    You are seeing your wife for the first time, the way you remember her from your past, not the way she is today and it's unsettling because your fearful of losing her. I heard the term in another post the other day "New Relationship Energy" and that is a perfect description. Swinging and your relationship is like apples and oranges; you can't compare them. Yep, the sex we have with others is really sexually charged way beyond ours but it is not a replacement nor can it ever be a replacement for the intimacy of our love making and the closeness we have built over almost 14 years.

    No experience is ever going to be like you imagine it. Take the scripts out of your head and go with the flow. You might find yourself in a position where you can't get it up, it happens, if your first thoughts are "great, he's going to get to fuck my wife and I can't screw his" then you are not thinking about your wifes happiness and putting it before your own. If she is with a guy that can't get it up, she should be happy to watch you have sex with the other wife. That's what it takes to swing successfully, in my opinion.

    As we look back over the last year and reread some of our posts, we laugh to ourselves and say "wow, we were very naive!" That's because swinging is an evolution and everyday we continue to change with each new experience and so will you if you continue in the lifestyle.

    It all starts back with trust and communication.
    Last edited by DigginIt; 06-28-2010 at 06:42 PM. Reason: added more thoughts.

  6. #51
    Swingers Board Addict DigginIt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Telling my wife and the other husband to stop...Was I wrong?

    One final thought, I know I have edited the post like 10 times so I'll put this thought by itself.

    You need to seriously consider that swinging may not be right for you two. You are both liking something about it but it will destroy your marriage if you can't figure how to make it work for you.

    My final thought:

    Debriefings ... that's where we sit and talk about the experience. What we liked, didn't like and this is not a time for judgement or ridicule. This is where you solidify the experience in a positive way. Color coating is fine to a degree but don't lie. You should expect that with swinging you are going to come across partners that do some things better than you and you need to accept it with a smile, learn from it, have fun getting better at it yourselves

    If you continue to live under the premise that the sex isn't going to be better at times then you are both fooling yourselves. Some men are going to be bigger, thicker, longer, have more hair, have less hair, kiss better etc. Some women are going to be prettier, thinner, bigger boobs, better at oral, like to swallow, like anal (whatever floats your boat).

    Swinging is an opportunity to keep what you love and cherish with excellent benefits from others.

  7. #52
    anc
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    Default Re: Telling my wife and the other husband to stop...Was I wrong?

    DigginIt,

    Thanks for the advice. We have started to figure a lot of the things you said out during our break from the lifestyle. You are right, we have realized that we are not completely honest with each other out of fear of hurting each others feelings.
    We have never been so honest with each other since that experience. I (husband) never really got hurt before, she has numerous times. I now understand fully how she felt and I'm glad I've experienced it. The experience before the one we last wrote about I had a hard time getting hard too. It was not the same because she didn't let completely loose like the most recent one. I was on cialis that night and it did absolutely no good for me. I believe it's because I really don't know what she wants out of the lifestyle. I do know in time I will find out as she discovers what exactly it is that she wants.
    I believe we are both getting closer though.
    Thanks again for your help and we hope you don't mind if we ask you more questions in the future. As a matter of fact if you have anything to say about what we just wrote please feel free to say it. We welcome it!!!

    Thanks,
    anc

  8. #53
    Swingers Board Addict ClosetSwinger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Real issue...we want patient and honest help please.

    I am confused. Why is it that you don't want your wife pleasured by another man? That is part of swinging. Do you expect her to lay there and have someone licking her or even having sex with her and pretend or act bored? I don't get that part at all. If you don't want to see another man pleasuring her then DON'T SWING...simple as that.

    You have WAY too many rules....how on earth can either of you relax and enjoy things when you have rules to that extent. Half your rules are things that are NATURAL to do during sex so having to think in your head "oooo I can't do that...oops I can't do that either" would totally RUIN the whole thing for anyone. When you say "no seducing" what does that mean?

    It seems to me that your wife is able to handle seeing you with another woman EVEN THOUGH you ignored her the first THREE TIMES you played with a girl. You on the other hand were totally devastated that your wife dared to enjoy another man. 99% of people would have assumed it was okay as you were kissing and pulling her hair. I would have thought you were really into it.

    Honestly I am shocked after ALLL that went wrong with swinging that you continued. If you WANT TO KEEP SWINGING then you BOTH need to sit down and have a BRUTALLY honest chat about what you are doing. My suggestion is to throw your book of rules out the window. It's too much and too hard to follow all those in the heat of the moment.... I don't really see an issue here with your wife...she seems to handle it fine although she does seem to get angry when you break a rule but then again for a while the rules were rather one sided in your favor so I would probably get pissed if I was following all 800 rules on me and then you broke your ONE rule.

    So in my opinion YOU (the husband) are the problem in this. You have a jealousy issue and you are right THIS IS NORMAL. We too had jealousy issues AT THE START and we both were able to work through them and get past it, now jealousy is a thing of the past for us.

    I think that you need to work on your jealousy issues and if you can't get past them then you need to leave the lifestyle. It's not fair to your wife OR the couples you will play with if you keep trying to force it but continue feeling jealous and doing things to make yourself feel better in the moment. It will make the girl you are with uncomfortable as she will definitely pick up on it AND the guy will likely see it too. This makes for a really awkward experience for all involved.

  9. #54
    Swingers Board Addict knb2004's Avatar
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    Default Re: Real issue...we want patient and honest help please.

    Not much to add here that hasn't already been said, but one thing did stand out for me. Ya'll are approaching this like it's a contest, and you are KEEPING SCORE. He did this, she did that, he DIDN'T do this, she DIDN'T do that.

    This is not a lifestyle in which you are competing, you are complementing each other on a journey of pleasure and (if you're lucky) perhaps even picking up some life-long friends in the process. And, as so many others have said, if you do not genuinely enjoy your spouse getting pleasured by another person, perhaps this isn't the lifestyle for you.

    Regardless, stop keeping score.

  10. #55
    anc
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    Default Re: Real issue...we want patient and honest help please.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClosetSwinger View Post
    I am confused. Why is it that you don't want your wife pleasured by another man? That is part of swinging. Do you expect her to lay there and have someone licking her or even having sex with her and pretend or act bored? I don't get that part at all. If you don't want to see another man pleasuring her then DON'T SWING...simple as that.

    You have WAY too many rules....how on earth can either of you relax and enjoy things when you have rules to that extent. Half your rules are things that are NATURAL to do during sex so having to think in your head "oooo I can't do that...oops I can't do that either" would totally RUIN the whole thing for anyone. When you say "no seducing" what does that mean?

    It seems to me that your wife is able to handle seeing you with another woman EVEN THOUGH you ignored her the first THREE TIMES you played with a girl. You on the other hand were totally devastated that your wife dared to enjoy another man. 99% of people would have assumed it was okay as you were kissing and pulling her hair. I would have thought you were really into it.

    Honestly I am shocked after ALLL that went wrong with swinging that you continued. If you WANT TO KEEP SWINGING then you BOTH need to sit down and have a BRUTALLY honest chat about what you are doing. My suggestion is to throw your book of rules out the window. It's too much and too hard to follow all those in the heat of the moment.... I don't really see an issue here with your wife...she seems to handle it fine although she does seem to get angry when you break a rule but then again for a while the rules were rather one sided in your favor so I would probably get pissed if I was following all 800 rules on me and then you broke your ONE rule.

    So in my opinion YOU (the husband) are the problem in this. You have a jealousy issue and you are right THIS IS NORMAL. We too had jealousy issues AT THE START and we both were able to work through them and get past it, now jealousy is a thing of the past for us.

    I think that you need to work on your jealousy issues and if you can't get past them then you need to leave the lifestyle. It's not fair to your wife OR the couples you will play with if you keep trying to force it but continue feeling jealous and doing things to make yourself feel better in the moment. It will make the girl you are with uncomfortable as she will definitely pick up on it AND the guy will likely see it too. This makes for a really awkward experience for all involved.
    ClosetSwinger,
    All points you gave are dead on. We appreciate your brutal honesty. We have come to realize all this and have been in the recovery phase ever since we wrote the initial post. Since then we have been more and more honest with each other and it has only helped us! We have been on a break since then and don't know how long it will last. We have a lot of complaints about each other that we both have had pent up for a very long time. Jealousy is, without a doubt, a major issue on my part! She is very jealous too although she's been working on hers ever since I lifted the rules. I'm about a year behind her on this.
    We have a lot to work on and we both have taken into consideration that swinging may not be for us. We do however both think it is as we both are who we are...crazy sex freaks. Lots of work to do....

    Thanks again to you and everyone that has responded to our initial post. All points have been read and discussed between us and it's helping!!! More advice is welcomed!

    anc

  11. #56
    Swingers Board Addict ClosetSwinger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Real issue...we want patient and honest help please.

    I had one more question, I didn't understand this particular rule:

    "We agreed on no rules except that if one guy cums the appropriate wife had to finish the other man off."

    So say one man cum's, say the other two are hot and heavy and the woman has NOT cum yet. In THIS situation the other woman would have to stop what she is doing immediately..get off of him....and let the MAN'S WIFE finish him? Her husband has already cum so the other woman is left frustrated....that really sucks for her!?

    I don't quite get why this is a rule though, it does not make sense to me. I've looked at it from several angles and I can't see it as a jealousy thing either...? CAn you explain it?

  12. #57
    Swingers Board Addict DigginIt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Real issue...we want patient and honest help please.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClosetSwinger View Post
    I had one more question, I didn't understand this particular rule:

    "We agreed on no rules except that if one guy cums the appropriate wife had to finish the other man off."
    I think, if I understood this rule correctly it's basically a "tit for tat" type of rule and only directed towards the guys. If anc's wife was screwing the other guy and she took it to the point of the guy getting off with her then anc's wife should expect that her husband isn't going to stop until he gets off from the other wife.

  13. #58
    Swingers Board Addict bbarnsworth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Real issue...we want patient and honest help please.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigginIt View Post
    I think, if I understood this rule correctly it's basically a "tit for tat" type of rule and only directed towards the guys. If anc's wife was screwing the other guy and she took it to the point of the guy getting off with her then anc's wife should expect that her husband isn't going to stop until he gets off from the other wife.
    Yeah, but I still see it as a ridiculously convoluted rule. If there's problems about with whom someone cums, after swinging as many times as this couple has, there's other deeper problems I think.

  14. #59
    Swingers Board Addict ClosetSwinger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Real issue...we want patient and honest help please.

    I took it as the opposite of that. Either way I might be stupid but I still don't quite get it lol! oh well!

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