Is it jealousy or something else?

[dewt]

Well, I gotta say I'm surprised to find myself here. Not just 'here' as in the boards, but 'here' also in terms of my sex-life. I've lurked for a while, enjoy your forum and would like to introduce myself.

Though not legally married, I've been with my 'wife' for about 7 years. In our early thirties, we have one child together and share one with my ex-wife. My wife, Dylan, and I are as different sexually as could be, though it seems that is changing. While I'm pretty much constantly thinking about it and have had many many partners and wild experiences, she has always been rather straight. I've mentioned experimenting in the past a few times without seeing much in the way of enthusiasm. So, I never pushed it and got myself used to the idea that our marriage would be pretty straight. This is no great sacrifice. You must understand that I'd dedicate my life to this woman even if the only sex I ever had was with my right hand.... (Thankfully this is far from the case)

About 6 months ago, we moved to a small town and made a few new friends. One of them, (who I get along with very well) is very attractive as far as my wife is concerned. The first time she saw him she experienced what she called a 'cunt punch'. So distraught was she by this reaction that she felt she had to tell me about it right away. She was actually upset that another man turned her on so much.

I was thrilled about it. I told her not to worry. I told her I wasn't worried. Our love and commitment to each other is beyond questioning and I was excited that she was experiencing these urges.

I encouraged the two of them to flirt. I even approached my buddy, at first dropping hints about my lack of jealosy and then as things 'developed' outright telling him what was going on and explaining that I had no probs with it.

They have been flirting for several months now. 2 weeks ago, we three were out at a bar together. At the end of the evening, when my bud was leaving, I sent my wife to see him to the door with instructions to give him a kiss goodnight. Apparently it was one helluva kiss.

A week later, everything was 'right' and I sent her over to his place, giving her a time limit of 1 hour. They didn't go all the way, instead just kissing and stroking until it was time for her to return to me.

Things are up in the air right now, and I'm being asssailed by emotions I never anticipated feeling. My wife is warming to the idea of swinging - actually she has admitted that she'd be dissappointed if this did not happen. Me too, I'd be dissappointed. My original fantasy was to have the two of us guys pleasing her. She has to 'feel comfortable' first, which means being with him alone. Though I do have some issues with this, I'm open to it. Even if we never get the three of us together, I still want her to have this little fling.

Of course there is lots more to this story, but as this is just an introductory letter, I'm wondering if I shouldn't save it for a different thread.

I guess thats all for now. I will check in later but my replies could be spotty as I have to manoever around two housemates and a child.

[JustAskJulie]

Welcome to the board. Interesting how things can turn around on you huh?

Sounds like the two of you need to talk and make sure that whatever happens you are both REALLY ok with it. If you want to be involved will you end up being jealous if you aren't? The more comfortable you both feel with things ahead of time the more likely it will all work out for the best for both of you.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by dewt

I guess thats all for now. I will check in later but my replies could be spotty as I have to manoever around two housemates and a child.

I am really confused here. Forgive me, I re-read your entire posting twice, but I don't get this last paragraph.

Are you spending your time between to households? I also don't really understand why you refer to someone casually as your wife, when you are not legally bound. Wouldn't she really be your girlfriend or the mother of your child?

I also do not understand how your fantasy of having two men please her translates into your not being a part of it as you said that you need for her to be comfortable *alone* with the other man. This could just be my thinking tho as I would be very upset if my husband put me in the positon to be alone with another man by myself. Different strokes for different folks tho.

As Julie said, you need to talk to her and make sure that everything is really okay on both ends.


Lori

[dewt]

Yes, technically she is both my girlfriend and the Mother of my child. But I do not 'casually' refer to her as wife, true we do not have papers to prove it but in our hearts and souls we are very much married. I do not spend time between households, as I only have the one. I have an ex-wife who lives about 3hrs away with my older son. Please excuse me for not being clear.

I don't really have any personal interest in sending her off to be alone with another guy. When she first mentioned her attraction to her, my thoughts were that I'd like to give her a little (read- BIG) thrill. I'd been involved in the swinging lifestyle before, loved it, and thought she might enjoy an opportunity to experiment. I love to please this woman and felt that bringing another guy into our bed would bring her twice the pleasure and many time the thrill.

Dylan (my wife) is not as... uh... 'liberated' as me. She's much more conservative and felt that she could not just jump into bed with the two of us and be comfortable. She felt that if she was alone with him first, it would be easier to take the next step. I can understand that even if I'm not thrilled by it.

The housemates thing: I rent a house. A few months ago, we took in a single mom and her child. She's very nosy and the center of drama in this town. Both my wife and I agree that she should be kept ignorant of our lifestyle choices. (swinging specifically included) To complicate matters, a couple of weeks ago, my dad moved in after a breakup with his girlfriend. While this is a temporary situation, it complicates things and limits my private time with the computer. So my replies may be spotty.

Sounds like the two of you need to talk and make sure that whatever happens you are both REALLY ok with it. If you want to be involved will you end up being jealous if you aren't? The more comfortable you both feel with things ahead of time the more likely it will all work out for the best for both of you.

Julie, believe me, we've been talking. For a couple of weeks there, we talked about nothing else. I do want to be involved. I don't especially wish for her to go to him without me. In my mind, this is a sacrifice I would make so that my love can experience something wicked and fun.

Will it make me jealous? Absolutely. Last week she went over to his place in the middle of the night. We'd all been out to the bar together and every thing was 'right'. I sent her over with instructions to be back in an hour. That's not much time, I know, but it was late and I wanted to take it in bite-sized pieces so that I could absorb and adjust to my feelings. I was not expecting the adrenaline rushes, the shaking, nor the sheer panic. I did not know I could feel jealous (long story) and to be honest was very pleased with my reaction. The did little more than make out and touch each other. I admit I was hoping for more, but again, my beloved's comfort level is of supreme importance to me. So yes, I would be jealous, but it is a sacrifice I am willing to make. (Certainly not one that I would be willing to make repeatedly, though.)

To be honest, I'm not even sure that my wife has any interest in having the both of us. It is possible that she's a one man kind of gal and just wants to have this experience with this other guy. That would be fine. Ultimately, my wish is to give her a neat (understated) experience. What will I get out of it? Well, besides the thrill of giving this sort of gift, I'm going through great bursts of personal growth and coming to a much better understanding of myself.

While I've had experience with the swinging lifestyle, I still feel like a newbie. My experiences were when I was a younger man living with an older woman. We never talked about it, just kind of lived an open relationship with the odd extra person joining us. I found it tough at first but eventually adjusted. Adjusting meant killing any feelings of jealousy. This was 15yrs ago and I haven't felt jealous till now. (something I'm grateful for) I am however, secure in our love and relationship and able to cope with these feelings.

It's nice to able to ramble about this and have it read by people who understand and may be able to offer some insight.

One other question... should this maybe move to another forum? It seems like it may have progressed beyond a simple introduction.

Dewt

[OhioCouple]

Thanks for clearing some things up. Now everything you said makes perfect sense to me regarding the wife/mother household situations. I understand perfectly the devotion that two people can have in which a piece of paper has no bearing.

All that said, based on what you have shared it sounds as though you both need to really sit down and talk about what you both desire....by both I mean as a couple. It sounds as though each of you are doing something that you feel would please the other and dismissing your own feelings. There is nothing wrong in doing something to please your partner but if by doing so you compromise your own feelings it can only lead to hard feelings and problems down the road.

You'll probably hear it said a million times, but swinging is not for everyone. The only way (in my opinion) for it to work in a relationship that involves two committed people is communication. I've often said over the last year that for me communication between partners is a higher priority than "no mean no" when it comes to any aspect of swinging. Without being able to communicate it is hard to say "NO" and mean it.

Hope that helps some.

Lori

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by dewt


One other question... should this maybe move to another forum? It seems like it may have progressed beyond a simple introduction.

I think you are right Dewt. I felt you would get more feedback by moving and renaming your topic here in the "Help Forum".

I am sure there are many others that have been in your shoes or are now and hopefully they will be able to give you some alternate advice that could help with your situation.

Lori

[dewt]

Believe it or not, we talk one heckuva lot. And this topic has not been neglected in anyway. But you have a point there... our conversations have centered largely around us as individuals rather than a couple.

Part of the reason for that relates to the boundries we've discussed and agreed upon. One of which is that before she would even consider being with the both of us (me and a new but very close M friend) at the same time she would have to be comfortable with each of us individually. Obviously she and I are comfortable together, but she's made it clear that it's important to be with him alone first.

Consequently, as this progresses (they've been on a few dates, but no consumation) the emotions that we are riding are based on separate experiences. And so our converstations have tended to follow the same route. I will keep this in mind as tonight she and I have a date with our own selves up in the 'inner sanctum' (bedroom with door locked and enough music to drown hushed voices) to lounge, chat and just generally be with each other.

I certainly am not dismissing my feelings. Well, I'm trying like heck not to anyway... I've spent an enormous amount of time introspecting and journaling. Rather than dismissing, I'm sorting and catagorizing, immersing myself in them at times and at others, I remove myself and analyze myself. I'm being plain and honest about my feelings as they come, with disclaimers abounding for the roller-coaster aspect of it all. Regardless of the outcome- even if everything stopped right now, the personal growth I've experienced is mind-boggling.

I get no thrill out of her being with another man without me there. That being said, the idea doesn't cause me trauma either. I would gladly go through a temporary period of discomfort in order to rock my wife's world.

My biggest issue right now, I guess is the dates they are going on. I intensely dislike being stuck at home knowing they are being intimate in ways that go beyond the purely sexual and then not knowing, as the evening progresses if my period of waiting is finally over. I'm not afraid to admit to being a little selfish and I'm getting impatient. I'm very uncomfortable with them having their own private/intimate relationship. Dylan and I have talked about this and agreed that there will be no more 'dates'. If they are going to have 'time alone', it will be more carefully planned out and structured. That kind of kills the erotic build up that would make this a lot easier for my wife to get into, but she understands that I'm only going to volonteer for a certain level of discomfort. Could it be that I'm having trouble with the line between swinging and her having an affair with my permission? (please let me reassure you again that our devotion to each other is legendary)

BTW, as far as our communication goes, Dylan could read any of this and not see anything new. She has in fact been following this thread.

Swinging sure isn't for everyone. I'll agree to that. There have been times over the past few weeks where I've wanted to stop everything. There have also been times that I've been ready to pick her up and carry her over there. This is an issue that could use some perspective. My problem isn't sharing her physically... it's the emotional bonding thing that's got me uncomfie. Don't get me wrong... I don't picture the three of us together in a raw-sex-nasty-ass-porn scenario. It is important for me that my friend appreciate and respect my wife and that if we all get together we are making love rather than just slurping and pounding.

Not that I mind slurping and pounding....

Mmmmmmmmmm.....

Slurping and pounding....

See what I mean? I'm all over the place!

Dewt

[Fire_and_Air]

Instead of having your wife spend time with your friend alone, how would she feel if the three of you spent more time together, to let the bond between all 3 of you develop? Since she's not as experienced as you are, is it her uncertainty that makes her want to spend time alone with him? Does she feel like she'd be inhibited by your presence? How about if the 3 of you just play a little bit all together... you don't have to go all the way, just enough for her to get used to the idea and the feelings of having 2 men at once. Who knows, she might like it and become comfortable enough to no longer have to be with him alone as a prerequisite.

[OhioCouple]

Dewt I am glad that both you and Dylan are reading this.

I can only take this from my experience as a couple but due to the emotions both of you are having (jealousy and insecurity) those two coupled together are twice as jeapordizing to your relationship as just having one and you should stop seeking to make this happen.

I don't think either of you are ready or prepared to enter into a swinging lifestyle. I couldn't handle it if my husband were "dating" in a sense, another woman, just to become comfortable with them. If we can't do it together, we aren't going to do it period.

If you are so intent on proceeding anyway I would follow Fire and Air's advice. Take it slowly but most importantly do it together.

Lori

[JustAskJulie]

Both Lori & Fire&Ice have given you some great advice. I too have to wonder if you both aren't focusing more on what each other wants than on what would make you BOTH happy. I particularly like Fire & Ice's idea of the 3 of you spending more time together in general, whether it involves playing or not. The fact of the matter is that if you ever hope to have a 3some then all 3 of you need to be comfortable with each other.

I do have one question for you. When she comes home from her "dates" with this guy does she tell you all the details? If so, Do you enjoy hearing about it?

[dewt]

Wow... I asked for insight and I sure got it. Thanks all. These points are good ones and I think I might get Dylan to read this with me before I (or we) respond.

Our friend was over last night and we brought him up to our bedroom where we all watched a movie together. Nothing happened, there were no vibes, it was just really nice.

I'll be back later.

dewt

[J & K]

Yes---all 3 of you spend time together. Hell---if I let my wife go off solo in my eyes it is like giving permission to have an affair, but you give permission to. Any guy who does my wife I better know him and be around or in view. Funny thing---that guy better have a lady for me---hehehehehe. I feel for you brother. Just the thoughts that go on while you sit at home waiting must be terrible. I bet the same thought folks have when they think their S/O is cheating on them. She wants it alone with him---why? I would think she would want you there since you give her permission to see him. If I was in your shoes I would stop the solo act and make it more a social act of you 3 so everybody gets comfortable. take your time!!! Good Luck!!!!

[Additude]

I will tell you that what you are doing is OK and fine just as long as your both in agreement to it. The one thing you didn't mention was that if you and your wife had talked and set any ground rules.

You need to have ground rules, you need to work within comfort perimeters for both of you.

It's best to set the limits high at first and expand them later.

Rules should include things like Swing as a couple or not, single dates or not, same room or not, both have to be comfortable with the other partners or not, single men or not, single women or not, and so on.

Just be sure you have your rules and you have your understandings. Sort of like do a situational analysis and decide between you's what is best for both of you.

Good Luck and enjoy your time together.

[marsman]

What you are facing is not uncommon for some men. The fantasy and idea of having one's wife be with another man is great while it remains in the mind. Many men see it happening in a specific way and reherse it over-and-over in their mind. However, when faced with the reality of it actually happening or it not happening the way they envisioned it, they become jealous, uneasy, scared, etc. Like everyone else has said- honest, open, communication is paramount. I detect other issues at work for the two of you. Her sudden turnaround from being cool to the idea to ready to do it needs exploration. Also, it has been my experience that a significant number of married women in committed relationships (married or like the one you have), at first, prefer the safety (emotional and otherwise) of a threesome with their partner than going off with someone they do not know all that well. You say that she is reading this thread, is she willing to post her side of this issue?

When you talk in terms of your making a sacrifice, that suggests this is not what you really want. I hear a lot of contradicting things in what you say. This is why talking about this indepth and setting some groundrules is very important before letting the Genie Out Of The Bottle first. Once the bell is rung, you cannot unring it! My suggestion is to slow down, hopefully your partner is willing to do the same, talk about your mutual and individual desires and needs, and then set mutual groundrules. Although some people may reduce swinging to a simple act of entertainment like watching TV, it can be complicated; as you have discovered it involves emotions and goes to your core. I hope things work out. Good Luck

Marsman

[dewt]

Ok. The young one is off at school and I have a few moments. I saw my friend on the way home and he is expected to drop by so I may have to bail on this post. When he does I plan on sending my wife up to the shower so that he and I can ‘talk’. It is possible that my next post will be very juicy, but then again maybe not. We shall see. (pitterpatterpitterpatter)

Fire_and_Air: There’s a good portion of your post that my wife should actually be the one to answer. The three of us hung out last night in our bedroom. Nothing happened or even came close to happening. It was just comfortable and fun. We three do actually spend considerable time together. They have flirted in front of me and I don’t have a problem with it. (kind of fun to watch though)

As for my experience… I’m starting to question how much value it has in terms of this situation. While I cared about the woman I was with, there was no question in my mind as to my ‘place’ in the relationship. I was her ‘boy toy’ (as she used to call me) a sexual fixture in her life rather than a life-time partner. There were emotional issues only very briefly but they were kind of blown out of the water when she made her position clear. “Get over it or get out.” Now THERE is communication. I got over it and had 2 years of the best sex a teenaged boy could ever hope for. I thought that experience permanently killed any chance of my feeling jealousy ever again. That is why, perhaps, I can have these uncomfortable feelings now and be ok with it. Besides the fact that I do feel very secure in my wife’s love for me, on a certain level I am so grateful that I have these jealous twinges because it’s proven to me that I’m not made of stone.

I wouldn’t say that it’s uncertainty that has her wanting to be alone with him first. She has explained to me that it is insecurity rather. An uncomfortability with herself on a physical level. If she is with him alone first, she will be more comfortable getting nekkid when it is the three of us. Part of me thinks that this is not the whole story though. Part of me thinks that she just wants to be alone with him first because that is her fantasy. She’s said to me that she was never attracted to the thought of a threesome. I also know that she is not easily attracted or affected by most men. He happens to have chemistry with her and that is rare for her. Part of me believes that she wants to have him once without me around because I’m simply not included in that fantasy. While that may come across as harsh, it seems perfectly natural to me. For my part, if I was in her situation, I could see myself feeling the same way. The first time with another woman part of me would NOT want my wife looking on. It would be hard to relax and let go- I’d be worried about how my reactions would affect her. Tell me if this is not a normal kind of feeling for first timers.

I’ve already suggested that the three of us start off together, as you said, slowly. There’s no need to go wild-sex-fest the very first time. I’m thinking along more sensual lines… like the two of us giving her a massage or something like that. The idea was not discounted, nor was it met with any great enthusiasm either. I plan on going into some of the other forums to look for other ideas. Any ideas or links to helpful threads would be appreciated.

OhioCouple: there is very little that could seriously jeopardize our marriage. While it’s true I’m having jealous feelings, I’m grateful that they are there, because they sure weren’t before – and haven’t been for many years. Even so, they are at a manageable level and not enough to make me call it off. Also, I’m aware of what makes me jealous and what doesn’t and through communication hope to avoid or minimize the bad feelings. For example… knowing that they are out together dancing, flirting, and connecting intimately without me there causes me great discomfort. I made Dylan aware of this and presto, problem solved.

Also, I am so secure in her love for me that it’s not even funny. We’ve been through such crap together, and come through it stronger and more in love. I’m insecure in her lust for me, but that is not a new issue. It does bother me that she’s had such a strong physical reaction to this guy, but at the same time I have to admit that since this started our sex life has reached a high I never imagined possible.

It is very possible that we are not ready for a swinging lifestyle. In fact I’d have to agree with you whole-heartedly. There will most likely never be another woman in our bed. (I’m ok with that. Not that I don’t have fantasies, but a) I’ve been there done that and b) she is not at all comfortable with that and how can I not respect her feelings)

It’s not so much a ‘lifestyle choice’ as a desire to try something new. I am not so ‘intent’ on pursuing this. Well, on one hand I guess maybe I am, ‘cause as of now, I believe my wife wants to have this guy (which was totally unexpected, btw) and it was me who kind of started this whole thing. Even if I didn’t want this to happen, I’d have a hard time leaving her out in the cold so to speak. On the other hand, one of the ‘rules’ we have is that either of us can call the whole thing off anytime.

Julie: We will all certainly be spending more time together. We were friends first, and I’d really like to keep it that way, so no rushing and plenty of hanging out is our new motto.

As for the details…. Yes I get ALL the details. Do I enjoy them? Well… er… actually, no. The main reason for that being that, well, they’re kind of boring. Look at it this way. They’re out together at the bar with the intention of having a few drinks then leaving together for something a bit more private. Except for once, that’s as far as they’ve gotten. So the details are about flirty things, sexy dancing, the odd kiss and who else was out. The one time they did get together privately (for a predetermined 1 hour) it was mostly kissing and light petting. Details about my wife passionately kissing another guy I don’t find all that exciting. There was the bit where her hands went into his boxers… (I did definitely like that detail) but it was very brief (scuze the pun) and didn’t lead anywhere. For the most part, I spent my time uncomfortably waiting and received very little nasty in return. That came out wrong… I don’t want to rush this, but at the same time I’m anxious for the seduction to be over and done with. (IMHO- the seduction is more ‘charged’ and powerful than the sex itself)

I have more to add to this post/reply. (I guess I should warn you all, I have difficulty discerning between writing a post and writing a book)

dewt