Jealousy?

[Incomunicado]

This is very long, so please bear with me...

My wife and I have been happily married for nearly ten years. She is the more sexually open-minded of the two of us, having had mostly open relationships prior to meeting and marrying me. I was always "Mr. Sensitive Relationship Guy", so of course, I got cheated on constantly.

We have been monogomous since we met and my wife has always been considerate of my feelings and, since the beginning, has given me the confidence to trust her like I have no one else.

One day, about 9 years ago, we were reading a book about relationships that a friend of mine had bought. He had obviously not read far enough because about 7 chapters in, it got to "alternative lifestyles" and, for the first time, I started reading about swinging/threesomes and begain visualizing my wife (then, my fiance) with another man. But, this in a shared environment, not a situation of betrayal. I started thinking about how nice it would be to give up my jealousy completely for this person who had illiceted so much love and trust. When I mentioned it to her, she thought that the sentiment was very sweet and that, "of course, what woman wouldn't want to be serviced by two guys." But, despite a few very lack-luster soft swings (where we discovered my wife's bi tendencies), she has not had sex with another man in my presence.

Now, it's important to say, that my wife considers herself very discriminating in her attractions, and has only found a small handful of other men exciting enough to consider during out nearly ten years together. But, here's where it gets interesting...

A few years ago, we made friends with a guy who is very open about his sexuality during our conversations and makes my wife very horny. She wants him to be the man that joins us in bed.

My dilemna is three-fold and varied:

1) While I find the prospect of watching another man penetrate and pleasure my wife very erotic, I am concerned that my old jealousy will rear its ugly head "at the moment of truth". If it did, I know that it would only affect how I felt about the moment, not about her, and I have already decided not to stop her in mid-pleasure if I get jealous or insecure. Does the enjoyment of her pleasure usually overshadow the initial "sting" of watching another man enter your wife?

2) I have always preferred confident, independent women, but when my wife told me the other night that it had been a long time since she had been with anyone else and that she was curious about what it would be like to even kiss somebody else, I admit, I felt a little jealous. I guess it seems easier when it is my idea and she is a willing participant. But, when it becomes her idea and she shows curiosity and enthusiasm, I do feel a little less in control of the situation.

3) This is a big one...the guy she likes is married and has not always been the most faithful guy.

My wife feels that we cannot be our "brother's keeper" and that there is nothing wrong with swinging with him. I completely disagree and adamantly refuse to invite him to join us unless his wife is present (welcome, but not likely) or unless they seperate or divorced. My wife has agreed to honor my wishes, as this is supposed to be a shared experience, but she does not share my sentiment and she is disappointed that she will have to choose another partner.

So, what do you think? Am I, or am I not my brother's keeper when it comes to offering a married friend an avenue to be unfaithful?

That's it in a coconut shell. The group's insite into my questions is appreciated.

Thanks!

[danc694u]

Just our opinion. Cheating is cheating. We play together...always. And, expect the same from other couples we meet.

We might consider one part of a couple, provided that we had been with both in the past, and the other was okay with the idea. But, not very likely.

Quote: But, when it becomes her idea and she shows curiosity and enthusiasm, I do feel a little less in control of the situation. Unquote:

This is an issue you're going to have to deal with. You can't expect to "control" everything within the lifestyle. Nor do you really want to. I actually get a kick out of it, when Maggie does the planning/taking control. It would be totally unacceptable, her "swinging" just for me. If she didn't enjoy it as much as I do, I would stop today.


Dealing with jealousy This is a tough issue for a lot of people. Even very experienced couples have it "pop up" unexpectedly at times. It's something we deal with everyday. How you handle it says a lot about your relationship and your self esteem.

The trick, if you can call it that, is having a caring, stable, & secure relationship with LOTS of communication. If you know what you have, and you know it's a solid foundation, you're better able to deal with that "green eyed monster" than most couples. That said, does not mean that the relationship can handle the lifestyle, just that they have a better chance of it.

How we deal with it: We talk about it, as soon as it presents itself. Or shortly there after, if we're with another couple at the time.

Your wife, by honoring your request that you guys not take this man in, is showing you a lot of respect, in my opinion. That's a good thing Just be sure that you can return it also.

David -- the male half :p

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: danc694u ]

[LIZA]

YIKES....YIKES.........YIKES..............The red-flags are flying everywhere!

Your wife wants to "swing" with a married man, without his wife's knowledge, and she is "disappointed" in having to choose another partner?

Sounds to me like your wife wants to have an affair with this man (or is already) and is just trying to do you the courtesy of letting you know!

[Incomunicado]

No, I'd have to agree with David (on all accounts) and disagree with Liza. My wife is not having an affair nor is she seeking to. We have too open and honest a relationship for that. Besides, she wants TWO guys, not just a different one.

She is, however, very picky about people. She, like many of the people on this board, wants the same level of physical AND mental stimulation from a potential lover that she wants from a partner, and this person fits that bill, which she finds unique.

She honestly doesn't think it's her place to force someone to be faithul to his wife, however self-serving that may appear to this audience. I simply happen to disagree (strongly) and, while I can't force him to be faithfull to his wife, I can NOT offer mine up to him, and my wife has agreed to abide by my decision. If he was single(seperated, divorced), We would have had our threesome by now.

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Incomunicado ]

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Incomunicado ]

[FromFlorida]

Originally posted by LIZA:
YIKES....YIKES.........YIKES..............The red-flags are flying everywhere!

I have to agree with Liza here, 100%. Something is not right. You should really give this some very serious thought. You are opening yourself, to the likelihood, of a very painful situation. Not only for yourself, but for another couple, also.

Mike

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: FromFlorida ]

[Incomunicado]

O.K. Mike and Liza, obviously you are both seeing a problem that isn't there.

You guys are turning this into "hey man,you better watch out, your wife is cheating on you!".

Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong.

We get back to that love, respect and committment thing that transcends a simple ideological disagreement (even if it is about what makes someone a viable 3rd sex partner).

Now... here's a question for you both and any others who wish to join in...

You are (and, we at some point will be) involved in an activity that requires complete and absolute trust of your spouse. There's no way not to encounter grey areas of ideology because the whole game, by societal standards, is an ideological grey area.

What has happened to YOU to make you so skeptical of MY situation?

[ 11-28-2001: Message edited by: Incomunicado ]

[danc694u]

I have to disagree with the others with their overall observation. But, I do agree with them in part.

The part I agree with is limited only by the fact that I do not know the "true" nature of your relationship.

If your relationship is as you say. I see nothing wrong with it.

While some people will be suspicious of this type of "wanting". I think they have failed to see the point of some "swinging relationships". It's about sexual desire for another in some cases. NOT all cases, just some.

Nothing wrong with that in our book. As long as it doesn't take place in what we consider a "cheating" environment. We both have people we would like to "jump". But we both control that urge, because the other does not agree with it, for whatever reason.

If we all go around thinking our spouse is "cheating" because they have a "desire" for someone. Then we're just going through the motions of swinging. And trying to control the relationship, in my honest opinion.

Last I heard, swinging involved many emotions between a couple. Jealousy isn't supposed to be one of those emotions. And it seems to me, while you have your suspicions, you have that under control.

The coarse of action has been left in your court, from what you've said. The only conflict I really see here, is a "moral" conflict. And you've made the decision already.

[JustAskJulie]

1) While I find the prospect of watching another man penetrate and pleasure my wife very erotic, I am concerned that my old jealousy will rear its ugly head "at the moment of truth". If it did, I know that it would only affect how I felt about the moment, not about her, and I have already decided not to stop her in mid-pleasure if I get jealous or insecure. Does the enjoyment of her pleasure usually overshadow the initial "sting" of watching another man enter your wife?

I think that for most it does. I doubt that anyone will say they don't feel a little bit of jealousy when it comes down to it. But if you've really evaluated this and really want it and she really wants it, when you see her really enjoying it (especially if you are involved as well and not just standing there watching) I think that will overshadow any jealousy issues.


2) I have always preferred confident, independent women, but when my wife told me the other night that it had been a long time since she had been with anyone else and that she was curious about what it would be like to even kiss somebody else, I admit, I felt a little jealous. I guess it seems easier when it is my idea and she is a willing participant. But, when it becomes her idea and she shows curiosity and enthusiasm, I do feel a little less in control of the situation.

Like others have basically said, that's something that you'll really have to get over. If she's going to do this she has to do it not just for you but for herself. If you can't deal with that then you shouldn't be swinging.



3) This is a big one...the guy she likes is married and has not always been the most faithful guy.

...
So, what do you think? Am I, or am I not my brother's keeper when it comes to offering a married friend an avenue to be unfaithful?


This is one area that I actually go back and forth on. You are not your brothers keeper.. it's not your job to make him be faithful to his wife. HOWEVER, it's also not up to you to give him a way to be unfaithful.

One thing to consider as well... IF at some point his wife did find out and for whatever reason (whether or not it had to do with you) decided to divorce him... your names could be brought up in those proceedings. Based on current precedents, you could even be sued by her.

So whether or not you think it is up to you to keep him faithful to his wife... you might want to look at the bigger picture and consider the "what-if's".

[Incomunicado]

Since this was the main topic of my last posting, I thought I would try to redirect responses back towards it.

First, though, I would like to offer my thanks to David for his insight into my questions (see #1 and #2 of "Jealousy?"). I think you are right on the money and I found your response very constructive.

For all you other experienced guys out there, what's it like to watch your wife with another guy for the first time? (or second, or third etc.) Particularly, first penetration?

What's the jealousy v.s. erotic balance?

What's the relational balance as your wife takes a more assertive interest in swinging? As I mentioned, my wife has gone from "sure, who wouldn't want two guys, I'm up for it." To "I wonder what it's like to even just kiss some else, after ten years of marriage, "

I'm really interested in learning what feelings are illicited in men on these two particular issues.

Thanks again!

[danc694u]

Against my better judgement, I'm going to give you a response. LOL I'm not working today So I have time.

Our first time...there was NO jealousy at all. We were all having a great time.

We have had bouts (actually only one) with jealousy. Nothing that we couldn't talk about, then move past. I can't say this is the norm, only that it's how it is for us. The thing that triggered our reaction. SOUND... the women moaning in pleasure. Which is really silly, when you think about it! LOL

I've always prided myself at being able to keep my jealous feelings under control. This doesn't mean that I/we don't have them. It just means we're able to control them, then talk about them at a later time.

IF, it looks like we may repeat the same feelings (jealousy) with that same couple. We've elected not to see that couple any more. It's too easy to find another couple to play with, than to find another soul mate.

Erotic Balance is something you'll have to find for yourself. We're all individuals here.

Your comment about your wife moving from..."okay"...to "I wonder what it would be like" is normal, VERY normal. It's part of the fantasy we all have and, I think that's what brings a lot of people into the lifestyle myself (just my thoughts).

Personally, I think your being a bit too focused here. Your rushing yourself.

While I have been in the lifestyle for a number of years. Maggie has only been in it for a little over one year. When she finally expressed an interest. It took another 6 months before she was comfortable enough to actually get with another couple. Even though we had been attending socials the whole time.

AND then!! It was with 2 couples. She knew one of the women from school, but not the others. I didn't know any of them at all. We've all gotten to be good friends since.

Pace yourself...enjoy yourself...don't suspect ANYTHING! If you're going to suspect every person that your wife expresses an interest in. It's going to be very difficult for you to enjoy yourself.

We have noted the attraction that comes from meeting some people. We've used that to our advantage though If we think they're game, one of us will bring it up. After talking to each other of course.

Bottom Line Eventually, you are going to see someone that really gets your attention. Then the ball will be in your wifes court, as to how it is handled. THAT'S what we all have to deal with.

Good Luck

[Incomunicado]

David, thank you both for your input, which I agree with, and for helping be re-direct the topic in the right direction. Julie, we are definitely on the same page, and, your comments on the potential legal repercussions is very valuable and something we had not considered.

Thanks to you both!

[Incomunicado]

David, I appreciate you "going against your better judgement" and sharing this with me.

I suspected that any jealous undertones, if they showed themselves, could be controlled and dealt with later if necessary.

When the moment is right and the person/people are right, I think we are going to have a great time and I am definitely looking forward to her enjoying herself.

I will pace myself and I definitely won't suspect anything. There would be no way for me (or anyone) to survive in the lifestyle if I (they) did.

Once again, thanks.

[LIZA]

Well to answer your question to me, we have never been involved in a situation with a person who swung outside their marriage (also known as cheating)
You speak of absolute love, trust and commitment, yet your wife is willing to compromise another couples marriage because of her desire for this particular man. While true you are not his keeper and you say yourself he cheats regularly, I think the very fact he does compromises the whole experience.
In general in the swinging community cheating spouses are looked on with disdain and this is an expereince couples share TOGETHER, not just one of the couples!

[Incomunicado]

Liza, I would certainly agree with you on your last note. It is cheating, it is frowned upon in all walks of life and though my wife be relaxed in her attitued because it is not one of us cheating, I think the most important issue is that she won't do it out of respect for me and my beliefs.

That said, I think the issue most importance, is the possibility being named in a divorce case that Julie brought up. This is an obvious deal breaker on this one.

[FromFlorida]

Originally posted by Incomunicado:
O.K. Mike and Liza, obviously you are both seeing a problem that isn't there.

You guys are turning this into "hey man,you better watch out, your wife is cheating on you!".

I neither implied nor said anything about your wife cheating on you. I aplogize for not pointing out what I thought should be obvious. Others have already covered the potential legal problems.

But I will add this. I would not want to be in any way responsible for a divorce or for hurting the spouse, that was effected by my or my wife's actions. Would this not bother you?

What has happened to YOU to make you so skeptical of MY situation?

• 1. Personal experiences with cheating spouses.
• 2. Observations of the drastic results of cheating spouses, in other marriages.

I could come up with more, but that is enough.
Does someone elses marriage mean so little to you, that you are willing to risk trashing it?

Mike