Jealousy...the green monster

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

reading this thread, What do I do now....

made me think of some questions

Spoo--

So, when Mrs Spoo has a great experience, I have occassionally caught myself dealing with the green-eyed monster...

when this happens you deal with it--

by channeling it back into my own sexual expression - both with my playmate at the time and with Mrs Spoo when we get home

The first time it happened, for the sake of argument, at some point you were discussing it with the Mrs. and the conversation concluded with things were really ok and it was just a silly feeling or whatever. Basically rationalized it and moved foward.

When that feeling appeared again, why wasn't that a signal that this is something I am not comfortable with and by continuing I am "taking one for the team" (I define taking one for the team as engaging in any activity that is hurtful to me, as not to upset my spouse).

I truly dont understand, and that goes for everyone that does this, If it happened once and you came to terms with it then the next time she was having a "good experience" then the monster would not appear (you may not be turned on yet you would not be dealing with the monster. Yet it does reappear!

I am not trying to be critical here. I actually would like to understand the thought process that allows you to be pained repeatedly (time period in between is of no consequence) yet still trudge foward. Likewise does this the Mrs. have these same feelings off and on as well?? I ask this because one of my main reasons for bringing this forum and swinging to my wifes attention was for her freedom and exploration, yet if I was placed in this situation once, ok work thru it, twice..........ok gotta change something here as to not hold her back but not torture myself mentally in the process, a compromise if you will.

[intuition897]

I was going to reply to this, but I'd only be repeating what I wrote 2 minutes ago. (What do I do now....)

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by ANGEDKY(mr)

I am not trying to be critical here. I actually would like to understand the thought process that allows you to be pained repeatedly (time period in between is of no consequence) yet still trudge foward.

I appreciate the question and am glad that you asked it.

I've posted here before about my first experience. I was pretty candid about it and have even discussed it with swing friends - most recently last week before playing. So - apparently it doesn't really freak people out.

I think the emotion of jealousy is really down played in swinging. In fact, I have read on these boards that someone who experiences it doesn't belong in swinging at all. I think that is completely wrong. I think jealousy is an expression of feeling vulnerable.

If you'll indulge me in a little "psychology of swinging" - all people feel vulnerable for different reasons. Different things trigger that. It may not always be sexual, but it does happen to everyone. My thought is that GENERALLY men respond to feelings of sexual vulnerability with the potentially violent emotion of jealousy...

We try to protect what is ours...

It is primal and stupid - but it is natural.

Our first swinging experience - I was completely caught off guard by it. I had expected Mrs Spoo to have a hard time with it, but I felt such a jealousy and rage that I thought it was really going to ruin my marriage. I didn't freak out in front of the other couple - I was able to keep my head that much - but it was a difficult thing to get through; seeing Mrs Spoo - the love of my life - with another man was not what I had fantasized that it would be.

We obviously took a big step back and did a lot of soul searching. That was when I found the root of the jealousy. I felt vulnerable. My self-esteem has always been something I struggle with and swinging magnified it. After all, if another guy could show my wife a good time sexually - why in the world would she keep me?

See? Irrational...

The problem was entirely internal. And the experience did not ruin our swinging. In fact, it has made it better. I am aware of the possibility to feel that way - but even more important, I am conquering the demons that ravaged my self-esteem and eliminating the issues that have made me feel vulnerable by improving my self concept.

Lots of it has been surface accomplishments, I'll admit - weight loss, athletic achievement, study on improving sexual technique and stamina, etc. But, the end result has been more confidence - which translates to less vulnerability.

But - do I still feel that green emotion? Sure I do. But I can identify it, recognize it and defeat it in short order.

I know - this sounds like self-help crappy talk... I'll admit that it does to me, too. But - it works... Not just to allow me to enjoy swinging, but for me to rebuild a self-esteem that allows me to have a more complete, enjoyable life in all areas.

Now - frankly - I don't feel as vulnerable in a play room. I kinda think I'm pretty good at what I do But - I also have a load of confidence at work - in social events - in unfamiliar situations. So - it has all worked out for the best. Sensing vulnerability is like a barometer that gives me opportunities to make myself stronger.

I'll take that.

Have I ever - except for that first time - "taken one for the team"? Nope. Again - I am confident enough to simply say "no" when I feel I need to.

Have I ever - except for that first time - been "pained" by an experience? No. If I did, we'd have walked away long ago.

I enjoy what we do - I think those who have played with us would attest to that. Jealousy and drama are not a part of who we are as a couple - as swingers. Mostly because we deal with issues, discuss issues and find solutions together.

Spoomonkey

[imsnowman]

Wonderful response. Thanks

[Mrs Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by ANGEDKY(mr)

Likewise does this the Mrs. have these same feelings off and on as well?? I ask this because one of my main reasons for bringing this forum and swinging to my wifes attention was for her freedom and exploration, yet if I was placed in this situation once, ok work thru it, twice..........ok gotta change something here as to not hold her back but not torture myself mentally in the process, a compromise if you will.

Yes I have occasionally had twinges of jealousy. Not in the same way as Spoo, since I do believe as he mentioned in his answer post...

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

We try to protect what is ours...

It is primal and stupid - but it is natural.

....that men and women are different in their reactions and triggers regarding jealousy. Men do tend to be territorial. For women I think it might be more of a security thing. For both though I think the main internal trigger is a self-esteem issue.

You see him/her having a great time with a playmate and you internalize it and tell yourself "I'm not that good" - "He/she is better looking or more confident". It's irrational self talk. We do it at work, at parties, at the gym, and in swinging situations. I don't think it's something that is "painful" and should cause you to get out of the lifestyle. I do think it is something that if more people in the lifestyle were willing to evaluate their thoughts and feelings instead of reacting (and sometimes blowing up in a dramatic show that no one wants to be a part of) they might enjoy the lifestyle more and be better and stronger personally in all areas of their life.

As Spoo indicated in his post, we thought I would be the one to get jealous and upset because I was worried about seeing him with another woman as we started in the lifestyle. I think I've had less issues of jealousy because we have worked through this together and used what we learn to better both of us, so I sort of got a chance to pre-evaluate my issues and work on my self-esteem ahead of time.

Originally Posted by intuition897

I won't deny him the experience just to soothe my ego. If I have a pang of jealousy, I'll just have to deal with it and realize that it's only my own insecurity talking. A quick talk with Mr. about this usually resolves it in a hurry.

I think intuition said it very well here. It is just the fear that someone else can do something better and you get insecure over it. A quick talk and for me and Spoo it is quick. We don't let anything hang over us, if we have to we'll go find and empty room at the club and talk about it. Usually we realize just what has been said here... it's an irrational response do to unfounded insecurity. Then we are good to go and a lot of times those nights have ended up to be some of our best.

Mrs Spoomonkey

[notsosure69]

Yeah, that green eyed monster. This topic brought me here from AFF where my wife and I have been gold members for just three months. We have yet to taste the fruit of a live experience. We have played with many couples on cam and clearly my wife and I love doing this, particularly with hundreds of voyeurs watching us.

The desire is there for the both of us to take the next step. However there is one slight little problem in doing so…..ME…..Am I overreacting? Am I the jealous insecure type?

We are a very attractive couple and I realize that she is the star of the show as most women are who swing. I also understand all the emotions and mix feelings that will accompany this new found venture we are about to embark upon. Clearly most who have done this for the first time may have had an anxiety level that was new and strange not only to us men but to women as well as written above. I understand that.

My problem is this. I am lost for words. It’s not that I don’t trust her after 15 years of marriage, the problem is that ….she has what I will call ‘independent behavior’ patterns that disturb me. She will seek out men on AFF to cam with and masturbate with but she will not get personal to the point of agreeing to meet in person.

How do I know all this? Well, I am somewhat ashamed to admit this but I installed a keylogger on the computer to monitor our teenage daughter’s online activities without discussing it with my wife. I found some things that disturbed me about my daughters online chat sessions that prompted me to do this. (She left open a window one day)

It was the very first day after that installation that I found mommy having a bit of side fun as well. So I haven’t said anything to her about it, rather I read and view her online activity and all that she does while I’m away at work.

Now it was her idea (rule) that said she prefers we both not masturbate with somebody using the webcam and chat feature without being together. I told her I didn’t give a shit if she got off while I was at work watching some guy jack off on a webcam and she in turn agreed that it would be OK for me to do the same if I had such desires.

BUT NO WEBCAM and no personal IM with that other person without consent so to speak …..Just watch.

She has broken her own rules many times. I have confronted her about this without disclosing the fact that she is being monitored. She has never once lied about it, nor has she ever been willing to meet any of these guys in person. She tells them all that she is a happily married woman just goofing off while hubby is at work.

My thinking is this. In my humble opinion I feel that what she is doing is not right considering she would be upset if I were to turn on the webcam and personal chat feature with strange women without her.

Because of this sideshow of hers I feel we are not ready to take our first live swing yet. I feel that if she acts this way with a webcam, she may do the same live.

Your thoughts?

[Mike and Jan]

You know? Reading this made me realize that I never experienced jealousy. Odd, but I really didn't.

The very first time was with a couple that we'd known for a while. The wife of the other couple and I both knew that my wife and her husband had the hots for each other. They always danced the slow dances together at every party. The other wife and I joked about it a lot and were both OK with it.

The night it happened the other wife and I simply waited while her husband went to my wife's bedroom. The feeling I most remember was hoping that my wife went along, and enjoyed the situation. No jealousy at all.

After they let us know that it'd been consumated the other wife and I had our time alone but we both quickly wanted them to join us in the bedroom. I have to admit enjoying watching my wife and the other husband having 'seconds' as much or even more than just having the other wife. Not a moments jealousy, just complete enjoyment.

After that night we had about five other couples that we shared with and I never felt anything other than pleasure and enjoyment. Before, during, or afterwards.

But, my wife did feel jealousy each time she saw me or knew I was with someone else and, as much as she enjoyed the flirting before and the sex, each time she had much regret afterwards.

How many of you have, like me, really never thought about or felt jealousy?

[good times]

Welcome to the board notsosure69,

I agree with you notsosure69, from what you posted above you do not appear to be ready to go forward with swinging. The two most important things a couple must have to be successful in swinging is trust in each other and excellent communication, in my opinion. From what you said it doesn't sound like you have either. Another thing you will find people around here repeating a lot is "go with your instincts or gut feelings", in other words, if you don't feel you are ready, you probably aren't.

I would suggest that you step back from the idea of jumping into meeting others including ceasing the web caming for a bit and spend the time communicating with your wife in an open and honest way. You might start by leveling with her about the key logger. Once the lines of communication are completely open then you can clarify your rules and guidlines to the satisfaction of both of you and then work at building trust with one another.

That being said, if I am reading your post correctly, it sounds to me like your wife is doing something that you said was alright with you, so I am not positive that I see what the problem is on your end. So If I missunderstand please come back and clarify.

[Ofrdcple]

Good thread....

But Mr. Spoomonkey wrote, "It is primal and stupid - but it is natural." in regards to the feelings of jealousy

Being natural, I can't believe that emotions are stupid. We get these for a reason. They are defense mechanisms. The fact that we can step back, evaluate and act in an intelligent manner on these emotions is great. That's what sets us apart from our primal ancestors. Where did the times of dragging women around by the hair go? (JUST KIDDING) I believe that these emotions are important and vital to our lives and relationships. It's like when the check engine light comes on in the car. You can check it as suggested, even though it might be nothing. Or ignore it, and hope it doesn't ruin the car.

Notsosure, you sound like you have a trust issue to me. If I were you I would address that before I went any further. I think Good times is right. Listen to that primal gut feeling you have. Step back and look this situation over. Don't be afraid of it. The Spoomonkeys have already explained it might just be how you are approaching this that's sending up the warning, not the act itself. Good luck in your journey.

Mr. Ofrd

[Sweet_Candy]

Originally Posted by notsosure69

My problem is this. I am lost for words. It’s not that I don’t trust her after 15 years of marriage, the problem is that ….she has what I will call ‘independent behavior’ patterns that disturb me. She will seek out men on AFF to cam with and masturbate with but she will not get personal to the point of agreeing to meet in person.

How do I know all this? Well, I am somewhat ashamed to admit this but I installed a keylogger on the computer to monitor our teenage daughter’s online activities without discussing it with my wife. I found some things that disturbed me about my daughters online chat sessions that prompted me to do this. (She left open a window one day)

It was the very first day after that installation that I found mommy having a bit of side fun as well. So I haven’t said anything to her about it, rather I read and view her online activity and all that she does while I’m away at work.

Now it was her idea (rule) that said she prefers we both not masturbate with somebody using the webcam and chat feature without being together. I told her I didn’t give a shit if she got off while I was at work watching some guy jack off on a webcam and she in turn agreed that it would be OK for me to do the same if I had such desires.

BUT NO WEBCAM and no personal IM with that other person without consent so to speak …..Just watch.

She has broken her own rules many times. I have confronted her about this without disclosing the fact that she is being monitored. She has never once lied about it, nor has she ever been willing to meet any of these guys in person. She tells them all that she is a happily married woman just goofing off while hubby is at work.

My thinking is this. In my humble opinion I feel that what she is doing is not right considering she would be upset if I were to turn on the webcam and personal chat feature with strange women without her.

Because of this sideshow of hers I feel we are not ready to take our first live swing yet. I feel that if she acts this way with a webcam, she may do the same live.

Your thoughts?

Wow, we read this and realized we're not jealous either. Secretly installing a program to monitor your families activities online how bad can it get? Regardless of the actions of what your wife and daughter are doing your actions are reprehensible. You're not ready for swinging. Your actions express a lack of communication in your relationship. We would suggest you remove this immediately, tell your wife, accept the repercussions your actions have caused. If you can work thru this issue you will be on the right track for open honest communication. Communication is the foundation of swinging, without it you will never succeed. Deal with this issue, back off from swinging. Get your house in order. We detect from your post your unease with what you've done. Put this behind you before attempting to move forward. Good luck!

[ANGEDKY(mr)]

Sorry it took so long to get back here....

After reading all the replies, I came to the realization that it is more than JUST sexual arrangments that fall into that "whatever works for you" category. I say this because I do actually understand what the Mr & Mrs Spoo and Mrs Intuition are saying. Each time jealousy shows itself, it is a little less significant allowing you to change a bit (internally) and move foward. My hat is off to all of you that do this in your personal life... the ability to look inward, evaluate and objectively grow from each experience to the next is difficult (at best) and for you to repeat it making yourself a better person (and thus a better spouse) each time is monumental.

I myself sort of feel like Sweet_candy

we read this and realized we're not jealous either.

but that is just my mind going thru all the scerarios, and who knows what I will feel if the situation ever arises and at that point it is time to dig into self evaluation.

Ofrdcple too, had a good point about the check engine light in your emotions...I think the important part is when that light comes on FIRST look at your own car , not your SO's car nor the road you are driving..............I think there are some valuable lessons in this thread, thanks for the education

A final note... Somewhere on this board the question was asked, "Why do people come here to a swinging board looking for relationship advice?" I think the answer is in this thread, Look at the type of people here and their successful relationships AND they swing as well ??? Wow, who wouldnt want their advice ??!!

[CALICPL]

See Thats My Fear ! I Am Kinda Jealous And Im Afraid That The Playmate We Find May Satisfy My Husband More Then Me And Then He Will Become Sexually Dissatisfied With Me.this Is Something I Wanted To Do And We Have An Ad Up And Are Starting To Talk To A Couple But Hes Making More Of A Personal Thing With The Wife As Helping With Resources For His Job.so They Have Had 1 Private Call And Shes Waiting For Him To Call Her Tonight To Discuss It Further.and The Thing That Got Me Was He Couldnt Wait Til I Got Home To Talk To Her.and I Did Call Her After And We Talked But He Seemed To Have Talked To Her For Hours On End And Left Half Of The Conversation Out.so Im Sure I Would Like To Explore The Swinging Thing But Not With A Cpl Who My Hubby Will Know More Then Me And Their Rules Are The Husband Will Do Me Orally But But Enter Me But My Husband Can Enter Her.lol So Am I Just A Lost Cause For This.cuz I Want Some New Stuff Since I Have A Great Taste For Sex ::p:

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by CALICPL

See Thats My Fear ! I Am Kinda Jealous And Im Afraid That The Playmate We Find May Satisfy My Husband More Then Me And Then He Will Become Sexually Dissatisfied With Me.

If this does happen, you have bigger problems than swinging. If your relationship is sound, and there is deep mutual trust and respect, you get to a point where you just don't CARE if someone else can do your partner better than you can. You just think, "Woo-hoo for him/her!" Because the fact of the matter is, we do this as an add-on to our sex life, not a solution to it. This means no one is out there looking for the Bigger Better Deal. Ergo, we stop worrying about it.

Originally Posted by CALICPL

...Hes Making More Of A Personal Thing With The Wife As Helping With Resources For His Job.so They Have Had 1 Private Call And Shes Waiting For Him To Call Her Tonight To Discuss It Further.and The Thing That Got Me Was He Couldnt Wait Til I Got Home To Talk To Her.and I Did Call Her After And We Talked But He Seemed To Have Talked To Her For Hours On End And Left Half Of The Conversation Out.

You've got an awful lot of red flags here. And one is enough that it should stop you until you get things sorted out.
1) Getting personal crosses the relationship boundary. The other couple has their relationship, you have yours. Unless you're into polyamory, striking up new committment-minded relationships is a big
2) There shouldn't be anything they discuss that can't be discussed in front of you. Why the secrecy? When one partner wants to cloister him/herself away with his or her swing partner, it definitely should ring some alarm bells.
3) If he "couldn't wait", it shows impulsivity and lack of self-control. This is like trying to tip-toe through a minefield with an elephant in tow.
4) The long-winded telephone conversation reminds me of two lovesick teenagers making goofy-ass "I wuv you" noises at each other.
5) And then he didn't want to discuss their conversation in detail. Being vague about such an obviously moving conversation seems a little suspect to me.

Originally Posted by CALICPL

so Im Sure I Would Like To Explore The Swinging Thing But Not With A Cpl Who My Hubby Will Know More Then Me And Their Rules Are The Husband Will Do Me Orally But But Enter Me But My Husband Can Enter Her.lol So Am I Just A Lost Cause For This.cuz I Want Some New Stuff Since I Have A Great Taste For Sex ::p:

You should change this phrase to:
so Im Sure I Would Like To Explore The Swinging Thing But Not With [a husband who doesn't understand that I don't want to be cheated on]. I feel if these things you described are actually going on, cheating isn't too far off if it hasn't happened already. The tendency toward secrecy and vagueness are hallmarks. Just because you are interested in sex with other people, it doesn't mean that you want to be lied to and have your trust abused. The lop-sided rules of the other couple also is a possible indicator of unresolved issues between the other couple, which is not a good thing if you're dealing with this kind of thing yourselves.

Lost cause? No, no one is a lost cause. But you've got your work cut out for you, that's for sure. Good luck to you both.

[destin-ez]

Wow, good thread, I must have missed this one back in December. I agree with Mr. Spoo, but as usual, I couldn't have put it so eloquently.

I'm going to show this one to the wife when she gets home. We had a similar issue this past weekend at our 1st on-premise party. We've talked it out, things are even better than they were before facelick

I will add that this has to be the biggest problem to overcome in the swinging world, isn't it?

Mr. D

[Coupleinidaho]

Originally Posted by intuition897

you just don't CARE if someone else can do your partner better than you can. You just think, "Woo-hoo for him/her!"

Are you honestly telling me that swingers are perfectly ok with the above? How does that really feel? I mean, to know that some other woman or guy "does" your spouse better than you can, even after you've been with them for years, and supposedly know them inside and out?

I seem to remember a thread in which a similar question was asked, and most responded that their spouse was always number one in the bedroom, and swinging was just "really hot foreplay."

Mrs.