Hubby against full swap

[Seria]

Wow, my hubby and I are discussing bringing others into our sexual life. Sounds great to me! I am very secure with our relationship and his feelings for me. It turns me on to no end to see him with another woman...watching or hearing how he pleases another woman and especially how she pleases him! For many years now, I have wanted to experience another woman also. He is ALL for this! He is ok with bringing a woman into our life, together and as separately. However, when I approached him with the idea of swinging...soft swap to begin with etc...he abhors the idea of me with another man. We've discussed this numerous times and he just says he's too jealous to accept another man having sex with me. And that if I desire another man, then he himself isnt doing what he should be and I must not be satisfied with just him. Is this normal? It sounds hypocritical to me - he can do what he desires (regardless that I want him to be with another woman ). Does this mean he isn't as secure with my feelings with him? Is he insecure?

I've asked him those questions directly and he insists that it's not either of those. He says that he's a man and knows what a man is after, what they're capable of etc...Im not pushing the issue, I figure he'll talk to me when he's comfortable with it (or not comfortable ) But in the mean time, I would like to see if any of you have gone through this or a similar situation and what's your take on it?

Thank You All!

[Sweet_Candy]

Where to start? This has to rank as the number one issue in swinging. Accept your husband's position and talk, talk, talk. The "green monster" can arise in either so its not just a male issue. We worked through my concerns with lots of talk and you both may never get through it. The fact that your talking about others is a good sign and continue to talk...its like a seed, you must plant and then nuture...if all goes well then there might be a harvest or not.
Your relationship is your primary goal...swinging with others is secondary. Both together or not at all is our rule. Good luck!

Sweet

[intuition897]

Knowing something and believing it are two different things. It sounds like he hasn't come to the realization yet that it's not sex that keeps the two of you together. Ask him to think about why the thought of it bothers him so much? He said "if I desire another man, then he himself isnt doing what he should be and I must not be satisfied with just him", and "He says that he's a man and knows what a man is after, what they're capable of etc..." This says to me that yes, he feels insecure in his place in your heart. He seems worried that 'if I don't please her just exactly the way she wants to be pleased, she'll find someone else who can.' And the other thing it says to me is that he hasn't yet grasped that it really doesn't matter what another man's intentions are; it's whether or not you're open to being persuaded by them.

[jedi6942]

Yes! It is normal. Yes. It is hypocritical. Yes. Hes is insecure. Yes. I understand it completely! It takes time and a lot of discussion. Very open discussion on your part.

If this is something you want to work you must be open and honest about everything he is insecure about.

[Chicup]

For a male a FMF isn't swinging, its every fantasy from age 15 on up. He might never be open to a swap.

[EvilMJ]

Some people are not able to handle seeing their SO with a member of the opposite sex. There isn't anything wrong with that, you husband is just being honest when he said he would not be able to deal with that.

If you are both okay with bringing another woman into the realtionship then, hey have fun with that. If you think that you are going to want more and feel cheated on this, then don't swing, and tell him why.

I think you need to do a lot more talking before this goes any futher and leads to hurt feelings or resentment. You have to be on the same page before you begin.

[corkwan]

we thought for the longest time that we wouldnt do a full swap, but then when the time came, it seemed like no big deal.

it is important to listen to the fears, and indeed, the fear can sometimes add to the excitement, but afterwards, you need to listen, and understand. getting over insecurity and jealousy is pretty crucial. getting over that is one of the main bonuses of swinging, the trust that breeds. but not getting over it is the fuel that'll burn the house down, leading to resentment and feeling ignored/uncared for.

my view is that the harder you push for somethign, often, the more the heels dig in. i think the other people are right, enjoy what is ok with both of you and see how it goes. if you're insistent and focus on the hypocricy, you're only going to make your partner more defensive (digging of heels) and less likely to explore things. give it some time, and resepect each others worries.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by corkwan

getting over insecurity and jealousy is pretty crucial. getting over that is one of the main bonuses of swinging, the trust that breeds. but not getting over it is the fuel that'll burn the house down, leading to resentment and feeling ignored/uncared for.

Very well put corkwan. Your relationship is always going somewhere when you swing: either straight up like a rocket, or straight down the tubes. Jealousy, trust issues, and poor communication are absolute poison if you want to swing. They can't be ignored. The really do need to be addressed and dealt with head-on.

[WesternSwing]

Welcome Seria. What your husband is feeling is not uncommon. It is jealousy and he seems to recognize it as such. He is insecure, but not about your you but about himself. It's just easier to project your feelings on to others than face them yourself.

It is a fear that another man would be better than him at whatever, and that you'd run off with them. He really doesn't see why you are with him; that he could be inadequate sexually and that you could be lured away if another guy has better technique, bigger dick, etc. He doesn't see why you are with him besides his dick. He isn't seeing what makes the relationship work when you're not having sex. The stuff that makes it so you would never leave him because no other man could provide that for you. In simple terms, the soul mate stuff. He knows you love him, he just doesn't know why or how.

Although he can probably seperate love and sex if he had sex with another woman, he doesn't see how you could do it because he might not be as good as another man. Deep down in his subconscious, he sees this as a competition. So, he's not being hypocritical, he just sees you involved sexually with another woman as less threatening then you involved sexually with another man.

Men are by nature very competitive, especially with other men. Hence professional sports, fights, etc. Even about cars, homes, motorcycles, boats, etc. Men have an innate need to be better, and have better than the next man. When they can relax and get over themselves, then the competitiveness goes away and they can enjoy life a bit more. In fact, one of the things I love most about being in "the lifestyle" is the fact that there is very little pretentiousness and posing among men at clubs and parties. There is none of the alpha-gorilla chest-beating that goes on at vanilla clubs.

A couple my favorite quotes are:

"A competent and self-confident person is incapable of jealousy in anything. Jealousy is invariably a symptom of neurotic insecurity."

and

"In jealousy, there is more self-love than love."

Both are related, I think, in that someone who isn't fully confident in themselves doesn't see why you are attracted to and love them. Therefore they try to protect themsleves (self-love) by sheltering you from anything that might seem threatening to them.

I am a very self-confident person, but I had some real jealousy issues after our first experience (which reading this board really helped me with, thank you folks!). And this really, really bothered me. I couldn't understand why I was fealing jealous because I still think I'm 10 feet tall and bulletproof. When I figured-out finally that it related to my ex-wife sleeping with my best friend and then leaving me for a coworker of hers, I was able to start solving my issues.

My ex once said to me in counseling "you're more concerned with the fact I'm having sex with him then the fact that I love him." And she was right. It didn't dawn on me that it wasn't the sex that lured her away. I couldn't seperate sex and love. I've said it before on this board, purportedly the guy she left me for has a smaller dick and most of the time couldn't keep it up most of the time because he is a hardcore drinker. So it must not have been the sex, huh?

Now I can seperate the two, and I realize that Mrs. WS loves me unconditionally, wholey, and completely, and that will not change because she has sex with another person. Hell, she had sex with other men before me, and still married me! That alone tells me I'm better than all other men! *grunt grunt grunt* So besides the great sex we share there must be allot more about me that keeps her here than any of the other men ever had.

Mrs. WS says it is because we are so committed to each other, and are so totally in love with each other, that we can swing. Not the other way around.

So give him time, talk allot about it, when he wants to talk about it. You can't force him to face his ownself. It's tough because it's admitting a flaw, which is the whole fear that causes jealousy to begin with. But it really is something deep inside him that is protecting himself because he doesn't want to lose you. He's got his man-shield up because he feels he'll lose you if another man is better than him in one way or another. Which be both know, for you is a bunch of horse-hookey. For you, no man will ever be as good as him in any way, shape, or form.

Mr. WS

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by corkwan

getting over insecurity and jealousy is pretty crucial. getting over that is one of the main bonuses of swinging, the trust that breeds. but not getting over it is the fuel that'll burn the house down, leading to resentment and feeling ignored/uncared for.

Very true. Another of my favorite quotes is "Jealousy, that dragon that slays love under the pretence of keeping it alive."

Even if you never swing, you have to face that dragon and slay it, or eventually it will slay your relationships.

Mr. WS

[corkwan]

nice post ws.

i've been thinking about my demons (or dragons, fears, etc) recently, and i've come to terms with the fact that it is probably impossible to slay them. nay, i sit down with them from time to time and we have a face to face. then i explain, they will go over there, and i will go over here, and we'll try not to disrupt my life...

i think it is when you believe you have conquered them, that often, they sneak back in without you noticing, only for, bam!, dragon in your face. those dragons, they're sneaky... myself, i just try and keep an inventory of them, and ask myself from time to time, who is making these choices in my life?

[jon&roberta]

I'm no expert on this subject, but here is a little background information on my experience.

My ex and I discussed swinging several times over a 5 year period. We had a couple of offers and I said NO. Why -because I knew I couldn't handle seeing her with another guy. I was too jealous of her and too afraid to lose her. We had been married for 12 years and at that time she developed a great relationship with a women she worked with. As couples we would go out all the time. The husband and I got along great too.

Well - this couple moved to Houston and after they had been gone for a year - the wife came to stay with us for a week. By the third evening we 3 were kidding about a 3-some (something I always wanted to do). We decided to watch the movie "Behind the Green Door" in our bedroom. Before half the movie was over, the 3 of us were having sex - my ex and her girl friend did the Bi thing for the first time. It was wonderful. The last night her friend was with us - she invited my wife to spend a week with her and her husband. I thought about if for a few minutes and said yes - go and have a fun in and out of the bedroom. I worried about her when she was gone and when she telephoned me after the second night there and told me she and TY (husband) had wonderful sex and that she LOVED me, all of my jealousy was forgotten.

So - what I'm saying - after having my wish - I agreed to her have hers - and we started in the life style. We divored 6 years later - but swinging was not the issue.
Maybe your husband will change his mind like me.

[DJTriad]

Originally Posted by Seria

He says that he's a man and knows what a man is after, what they're capable of etc...Im not pushing the issue, I figure he'll talk to me when he's comfortable with it (or not comfortable ) But in the mean time, I would like to see if any of you have gone through this or a similar situation and what's your take on it? Thank You All!

It's good that you are not pushing the issue, it shows that you have an understanding in what your husband can handle and cannot. Any form of jealousy would fall under being insecure and not being able to trust completely. Reassure him of your love for him and from my experience, my hubby went through some form of insecurity especially when he saw and heard what this one guy did for me, took me to another level. It must have been that "upward" curve and hit my "G" spot perfectly! Anyway, my hubby knows that I adore him and am very much in love with him. He knows the difference between just the physical, mental, and emotional. With him, he falls under all of it and it's definitely a different level that nobody else can come close to except for my wife.

[driveajeepnaked]

Seria-

Mr Jeep felt the same way!! It was perplexing for me that he didn't get it...sex with other people is just a physical thing - fun, feels good, then you go home with the one you love...

Since I am bi, we agreed to experiment with single bi-females. The bi part was important, because that was what kept me in the loop. After a few encounters with FMF, he became more comfortable seeing me with someone else, even if it was another woman.

We began to meet and play with select couples with a bi-female, and once had a couple and a single BiF all together. All this time, I had very little interaction with the other male. In time, he became more comfortable, and we since have had a full-swap.

Like all have said before me, keep talking and if you are willing to try a few other situations, he might come around and realize that it's not a big deal... You do need to be prepared for him liking it just the way it is... then you need to decide if you can comtinue to play under those terms.

Val

[goyaahhs]

Being the male half of a married couple I may shed some lite.
1. Unless you are sure, as sure the sun will rise, about your marriage, never let another man touch your wife.

2. If the sun rises make sure no one touches MYwife!

3. If someone touches MY WIFE. KILL THEM!!!

that is the first part of marriage.

Until he gets used to the idea it is a good thing for the both of you to share then it wont happen. Like previously said a seed gently and subversly planted and nurtured will bring a harvest.

(mention how exciting it would be if while he was with another lady and watching you having another man how excited he would be.)