Wife says no

[JTcamp05]

Originally Posted by mbnudist

Stay in the nudist lifestyle, go more often, make some friends at the nudist resorts and you will be surprised what time and familiarity will do. This is from a AANR nudist for 15+ years and occasional swinger.

Thats good advise, just please allow me to add something.

We meet with a couple much the same as you two and lets say the hubby was less than upfront about his wife's feelings, after several meetings at a resort, we ended up at there place for a very nice dinner, this moved to the bedroom for extended forplay...when the wife announced "ohhh you know I'm not a swinger". No problem we polietly end the evening and let things kinda go, but the hubby keeps in contact and invites us everytime they go to the resort.....

I guess the point of my story is he's not able to give up on the idea of swinging and she's clearly not a swinger. Just don't try and be something you are not, everyone has to start somewhere, but don't mislead others about where your at in this lifstyle. Most everyone will understand if your upfront about it!

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

Hi Serenieders,

What I meant by that earlier in the thread: If the lady enjoyed the swing club setting (she was very horny after the short visits there), but only enjoyed it for the atmosphere and not participating with others, the husband could give her a 100% guarantee that they would only be there for the atmosphere and nothing else. He would agree to turn down any and all overtures from other people, and it would only be about the two of them. (He would HAVE to keep his word of course, or the deal would be off and she'd lose trust in him.)

As a woman - if I felt the same way as she does about not wanting to swing, but the club atmosphere turned me on, that kind of guarantee would work for me. NOT to make me swing of course, but just to make me feel comfortable about going to the club for the two of us. Hope that makes sense!

To answer your question, it would be helpful to me as the wife, to be comfortable and to be allowed to enjoy the sexually-charged atmosphere without any pressure about sex with others (knowing that my husband has my back 100% on that).

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

If a woman has been subjected to a man trying to convince her or maneuver her toward things she's not interested in, she'll be on the defensive. If she believes there is a chance that once they're in there her husband will start tying to maneuver her (break his word about the guarantee), she won't even bite. Women do know their men!

I believe we're saying the same here. I just pointed out something that catched my attention from the original post, from the choice for the word "obsessed". If that word is really representative about the OP motivations "intensity", then the guarantee is... already "void", so to speak.

In many cases it isn't about the reluctanct spouse, but about the other spouse being so eager to game that doesn't give enough space to test the waters nor to withdraw after giving up on something.

The only way you'd dare to give this a try is, if you know for sure you can take it back at any time.

[msa223]

It seems like you have gotten a lot of very good "practical" advice. I am not trying to argue with that. However, it is like a mantra in the lifestyle to "go at the speed of the slowest person" and to the extent a man continues to push an idea, it is considered selfish. This is what I question.

Obviously, swinging isn't some activity like tennis where if your wife isn't interested you can go at it with some other interested parties. It does really require both of you to participate. On the other hand, in a marriage or any relationship if one side is always backing down on their desires, it doesn't make for a very good relationship. Shouldn't there be some room for compromise? If there is something that really makes you happy, why isn't your wife interested in pursuing it to some extent? If you know she is really uncomfortable, perhaps you can live with toning down your desire somewhat. It just seems to me that the lifestyle philosophy where if she says no, that is it end of story isn't that healthy for any relationship. There are exceptions to this rule. Some things may truly be "dealbreakers" for one of the parties and if that isn't acceptable, some marriage may not last.

Just a thought.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by msa223

On the other hand, in a marriage or any relationship if one side is always backing down on their desires, it doesn't make for a very good relationship. Shouldn't there be some room for compromise? If there is something that really makes you happy, why isn't your wife interested in pursuing it to some extent? If you know she is really uncomfortable, perhaps you can live with toning down your desire somewhat. It just seems to me that the lifestyle philosophy where if she says no, that is it end of story isn't that healthy for any relationship. There are exceptions to this rule. Some things may truly be "dealbreakers" for one of the parties and if that isn't acceptable, some marriage may not last.

Well, it seems to me the wife already is making an attempt to pursue his happiness, at least to the extent she can take (and enjoying some aspects of it as well). Is seems unfair to suppose the opposite is happening here.

But, this also leads to the question of the meaning of "taking one for the team". For any activity, and this includes both tennis and having sex with another couple, even when both paries were in the same page, it is unlikely that they both have the same level of interest or enthusiasm. My wife likes the other guy more than I do like the other wife, or vice versa, but, where's the line drawn between the "it isn't such a big deal" to the "taking one for the team".

I believe the line is a subjective and private matter, that has to do with your confort level.

Should I pursue my wife happyness at the price of making myself unhappy? And if I do, why the same argument wouldn't fit my wife? She may deprive herself from that EXPECTED hapyness to avoid making me unhappy, right?

What's the difference making us advice in one way instead of the other?

Well, I believe if you married someone it is because you already put your money in what makes you happy, or what you expected to make you happy if you're not. If you're already happy and your SO too, it doesn't seems fair for some of you to lose something of that happyness to improve the other happyness. And if you're unhappy inside your marriage, it's about your own expectations, but you'd attemp to force your spouse to stick to new expectations beyond the ones fitting the original commitment, and take the burden for your own originally mistaken expectations?

That's what leads me to suppose it's selfish to push beyond that line, to ask your spouse to take one for the team.

[hubbyHere]

Thanks for the great answers and ideas. I am not looking to have the wife take one for the team. I love sex but if all I wanted was sex with different partners and my wife was unwilling to play, then I would get a hooker or find someone(s) to cheat with. Since I don't do that I am really more interested in us, her and I, exploring life together.

Since she is saying "no" pretty clearly, I am looking for ways to stop thinking about this as being something that could be fun and find a way to accept her answer, even though right now I think she might want to say yes but is afraid. I'm thinking "get another hobby" is the way to go. More nudism plans, maybe convince her to take up tennis or golf (she hates tennis but is ok with golf). I realize she is not being clear about why she is saying no and I would love to understand that and maybe if I give her 100% guarantee thing she will tell me eventually.

Other ideas for dropping the idea or will this always be an issue for us?

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by hubbyHere

Thanks for the great answers and ideas. I am not looking to have the wife take one for the team. I love sex but if all I wanted was sex with different partners and my wife was unwilling to play, then I would get a hooker or find someone(s) to cheat with. Since I don't do that I am really more interested in us, her and I, exploring life together.

Since she is saying "no" pretty clearly, I am looking for ways to stop thinking about this as being something that could be fun and find a way to accept her answer, even though right now I think she might want to say yes but is afraid. I'm thinking "get another hobby" is the way to go. More nudism plans, maybe convince her to take up tennis or golf (she hates tennis but is ok with golf). I realize she is not being clear about why she is saying no and I would love to understand that and maybe if I give her 100% guarantee thing she will tell me eventually.

Other ideas for dropping the idea or will this always be an issue for us?

I'd say this is a good idea, even as an eventual start point.

My wife told me "no" so ephatically more than 15 years ago, than I thought this wasn't for us. I just dropped it, never, ever mentioned the idea again, and 10 years later she bring the whole subject again, on her own. And as she told me, she acknowledged I gave up my own fantasies and desires, and the fact that I didn't insist during all this time reasured herself about the relationship enough as to give it a second tought and analyze (without my participation/disruption) why she was reluctanct, giving the fact that she had no moral issues nor solid arguments against swinging.

And your wife is aready way ahead of mine by then: I didn't even manage to contact other people and even less to bring her to a club to test the waters!

Since you're giving up, I'd suggest you to let her know that you're making a choice, losing something that you feel it'd be important for you two, as to reasure what you already have and enjoy, asking her not ot forget about this, to take her time to think about this, and to bring the subject back whenever SHE wants. In the meanwhile you commit yourself to drop the subject, but hoping her to keep working on this.

And, who knows? It may happen to you the same that happened to me.

[WeMayTryIt]

Originally Posted by hubbyHere

...I realize she is not being clear about why she is saying no and I would love to understand that and maybe if I give her 100% guarantee thing she will tell me eventually...

OK, we're quite the newbies here, but maybe some perspective "from the trenches" of working things out will help.

This statement of yours, I think, is the central issue. There are generally two reasons people do the things they do: 1) the one they tell you; 2) the real reason. Unless and until she really, truly understands why she's resistant, and feels comfortable vocalizing it to you, I don't think you're going to get anywhere. In the short time we've been deciding to swing, and now that we've had our first swinging experience, we've realized that the ONLY way we've been able to do it is by being 100% transparent to ourselves and each other. I'd say the larger issues are your wife's self-discovery, her ability to be at peace with what she finds, and her knowing that if she opens herself up to you fully, you truly will accept her for who she is. I know it may sound a bit crazy, because you're making it pretty clear that you're more than OK with potential bi-sexuality, etc. But she has to FEEL that you're really OK with all of who she really is. When we started allowing ourselves to see who we really are and what we really want, and opened up all of our deepest, darkest selves to each other, magic started happening. And we both love each other more for who we truly are than we ever thought possible.

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't mention anything related to sex outside your marriage. She doesn't need you to give her a 100% guarantee that you'll only go as far as she's comfortable--she needs to believe a 100% guarantee that you're not afraid of seeing her for who she truly is.

A bit of a ramble, but there you have it.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by WeMayTryIt

I'd say the larger issues are your wife's self-discovery, her ability to be at peace with what she finds, and her knowing that if she opens herself up to you fully, you truly will accept her for who she is. I know it may sound a bit crazy, because you're making it pretty clear that you're more than OK with potential bi-sexuality, etc. But she has to FEEL that you're really OK with all of who she really is.

Rambling my ass...

This is excellent insight and couldn't be more true. For many women in swinging, the key is trust - they need to be able to trust the motives of their husband and know that they are not there to push them into something, but to be their partner in the adventure.

Spoomonkey

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by WeMayTryIt

She doesn't need you to give her a 100% guarantee that you'll only go as far as she's comfortable--she needs to believe a 100% guarantee that you're not afraid of seeing her for who she truly is.

Well put!

[PiquedPA]

Some may think my reply is a bit crass. But I would try to take your wife to a club while she is ovulating. Hell, I'd even sleep with Dick Cheney while I'm ovulating. Beyond that, my friend, just be grateful you have a wife who loves jumping your bones! Even if she doesn't want to go all the way, it's pretty cool knowing she gets turned on by it. 85% of good sex is in the mind. Sounds as though your wife has a fine mind.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by PiquedPA

Some may think my reply is a bit crass. But I would try to take your wife to a club while she is ovulating. Hell, I'd even sleep with Dick Cheney while I'm ovulating. Beyond that, my friend, just be grateful you have a wife who loves jumping your bones! Even if she doesn't want to go all the way, it's pretty cool knowing she gets turned on by it. 85% of good sex is in the mind. Sounds as though your wife has a fine mind.

So, what you're purposing the OP here is to take advantage of his wife (supposedly) vulnrability under the hormones rush? Why not to add some alcohol to the mix to help her ease a little more?

And, what would be your advice for the next day, after the hormones rush, when she regrets what she did the night before, losing all the turst on his husband capability and good will to look after her when she's vulnerable? A lobotomy?

[twobears]

ask her why,much more there than uncomfortable,when she is ready as you talk it may come,and you get to know deep personel things,I never realy felt loved the way I loved others. Well that was the old me,I am sorry that it took 20 years for me to get it right.LOL The will only be 40 or 50 but once!! Happy Swinging!!