Dealing With Guilt

We have only been swinging for three months and while we probably jumped into "full swap" a bit to quickly, neither or us want to go back to soft-swing or end swinging all together, we just enjoy it toooo much!

However, two problems don't seem to be getting any better. One is Jealousy and the other is Guilt. They are both way too complex for one thread so I will start with Guilt because while the jealousy is almost entirely one sided (just Ding), guilt effects us both but in slightly different ways.

During our meetings with other couples, Ding is completely uninhibited. At the club dances she loves to flirt, flash, dirty dance, even perform oral on guys and gals she barely knows. At an "after-party" she once took on three men and a woman at one time and experienced 20 orgasms in the process. But after the encounters, sometimes days later, she becomes riddled with guilt.

On the other hand I have pangs of guilt while at the orgies. Sometimes I believe it has effected my performance. After the fact I am able to rationalize the guilt away and it doesn't bother me. It's a good thing I "get over it" so I can be supportive of my wife who sometimes becomes quite depressed. Our participation in the lifestyle is beginning to look an awful lot like an addiction. We enjoy the sex so much but then there is that letdown and questioning... then it is time for another party and the next thing you know Ding is giving a lap-dance and I have my head between some girl's thighs and we both end the evening fulfilling some long held fantasy in wild abandon.

Anybody else experience such a roller coaster ride? Does it get better? The sex keeps getting better and better but I am getting a little worried about Ding's mood swings. One thing I might note. While Ding is often mistaken for someone half her age and usually gets "carded" at clubs, she is at "that age" and it could be a hormonal thing.

Any comments or suggestions? Especially would like to hear from people who have been through this same sort of thing.

Thanks

[ 08-14-2002, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: L & D ]

[OhioCouple]

quote:

---

Originally posted by L & D:
We have only been swinging for three months and while we probably jumped into "full swap" a bit to quickly, neither or us want to go back to soft-swing or end swinging all together, we just enjoy it toooo much!

However, two problems don't seem to be getting any better. One is Jealousy and the other is Guilt. They are both way too complex for one thread so I will start with Guilt because while the jealousy is almost entirely one sided (just Ding), guilt effects us both but in slightly different ways.

During our meetings with other couples, Ding is completely uninhibited. At the club dances she loves to flirt, flash, dirty dance, even perform oral on guys and gals she barely knows. At an "after-party" she once took on three men and a woman at one time and experienced 20 orgasms in the process. But after the encounters, sometimes days later, she becomes riddled with guilt.

On the other hand I have pangs of guilt while at the orgies. Sometimes I believe it has effected my performance. After the fact I am able to rationalize the guilt away and it doesn't bother me. It's a good thing I "get over it" so I can be supportive of my wife who sometimes becomes quite depressed. Our participation in the lifestyle is beginning to look an awful lot like an addiction. We enjoy the sex so much but then there is that letdown and questioning... then it is time for another party and the next thing you know Ding is giving a lap-dance and I have my head between some girl's thighs and we both end the evening fulfilling some long held fantasy in wild abandon.

Anybody else experience such a roller coaster ride? Does it get better? The sex keeps getting better and better but I am getting a little worried about Ding's mood swings. One thing I might note. While Ding is often mistaken for someone half her age and usually gets "carded" at clubs, she is at "that age" and it could be a hormonal thing.

Any comments or suggestions? Especially would like to hear from people who have been through this same sort of thing.

Thanks

<small>[ 08-14-2002, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: L & D ]</small>

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L&D,

I don't profess to be an expert here, but it sounds to me as if you two need to take three steps back. Judging from all of your previous posts it seems as tho you guys have plunged into the deep end rather than wade thru the shallow waters first. Jealousy and guilt are powerful emotions and can destroy a relationship. Perhaps the question that you should ask yourselves is "Are we willing to let this destroy our marriage or relationship?".

Based on my own personal experiences, my husband and I had these issues resolved before we ever participated in any sexual activity with others. Sure we have run into a few bumps here and there, but have never had to address an outright jealousy or guilt issue.

I would suggest taking a break for a while and having a "heart to heart", to address and resolve these issues with each other before participating in any other sort of swing activity.

Lori

[TasteeKat]

I have to say that I agree with Lori on this one. You really need to take a step back and evaluate your relationship. If their is that much jealousy and guilt there something is not right. Hubby and I spoke about the lifestyle for about 6 years before we ever entered into it. Our relationship means more to us than having other playmates. And we both came to agreements on everything that we could thing of. Little things may come up, but it is nothing to deal with. To me the lifestyle that we all live is not to bring pain, but to bring more pleasure (physical/visual) that is already in your relationship. I would get out immediately if I thought it was going to bring dispair in my relationship. And for us, we jumped straight in the deep end (as you called it) but we had already covered the issues. So the issues that you deal with, are not there for us. I have a few friends that have talked about the lifestyle, and I have talked them out of it. Because, to me (only my observation) is that their relationship is not strong enough to bring people into their relationship. If the two of you really love each other, PLEASE.... take that step back and get your relationship right first, to avoid these issues. Or if they do come up they will be so small that you will be able to handle them. I think we all would hate to see anyone split over the lifestyle .
We wish you two all the best.

[ 08-15-2002, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: TasteeKat ]

[ILcouple]

I have to fully agree with the 2 posters above you both have to sit down and get to the bottom of this I have seen firsthand what jealousy and guilt can do to a relationship it doesnt get any better unless you both can overcome this the couple i know that is going through the same thing they are at a stage where their marriage is really rocky and it is not getting any better it started out the way you are describing and with all the advice I give them to step back and look at things with a clear mind and discuss whats going on and decide if this lifestyle is for them is not working they both see it as the others fault and dont talk now it has spilt over into the pressence of the couples they meet with as far as having a big fight in front of them and slinging words (also directed at the couples) getting the other couples involved in their petty arguments and attacks of each other so my advice for you or anyone that has this problem is to sit down and talk I would hate to see anyone else get to this stage of where they are at now.

[Brian and Jo]

We agree fully with the previous comments. Unless you are both completely comfortable with what you are doing the swinging lifestyle is not for you. There has to be a very high level of trust between you to ensure that your sexual encounters with other partners do not put your marriage at risk. This can only be achieved in our view after a deep discussion in which you both agree on the parameters of your relationship and how far you are prepared to go in sharing yourselves sexually with others. We have found that swinging has enhanced our marriage enormously and our own sexual relationship has grown through the physical pleasure we have had not only in experiencing sex with a variety of partners but also from the visual joy of seeing each other having and enjoying sex with other people. This would not have been possible if we did not have complete trust in each other and the confidence of knowing that nothing we might do would be a threat to our marriage.

Any guilty feelings we might have had were before we started to swing. We had both had affairs and were fed up with the secrecy and furtiveness which went with them. After we started swinging our interest in having a variety of partners was out in the open, we were both aware of what the other was doing and all feelings of guilt disappeared very quickly.

So we suggest you step back for a while and discuss the state of your relationship and where you want it to go in the future before you venture out into the swinging world again. We wish you all the best - please do not do anything to put your relationship at risk.

Brian and Jo

[OhioCouple]

quote:

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Originally posted by TasteeKat:
And for us, we jumped straight in the deep end (as you called it) but we had already covered the issues.

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We too jumped straight into the "deep end" and like you we had discussed and resolved all these issues among others, prior to doing so. We also spent several years discussing it before taking the "plunge". I think I can speak on behalf of both myself and my husband here, I do not think that jealousy or guilt has ever been a factor for either of us although we did have an insecurity issue...on his part not mine, which we have since resolved thru communication and understanding.

L&D, another thing you may want to ponder is the fact that not having your own personal issues resolved is that you may inadvertantly cause hurt to others who do not know or understand that you haven't done so. Judging from your post you seem to do fine in the "heat" of the moment, but one or the other suffers regret afterwards.

Most people that we have met who swing tend to enjoy and look forward to meeting or associating with them again, but it appears that when the after glow wears off for you some really potent (sp) emotions take over. Most swingers, and this is coming from just what I have seen, have ALL (and yes I meant to shout that) their P's and Q's in check before including anyone into their private sexual lives.

Take a step back, resolve your issues and then decide if this is something you really both want to do. This lifestyle, in my eyes, is not about just sex, it is about enhancing an already strong and stable relationship, not destroying it.

Lori

[ 08-15-2002, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: OhioCouple ]

[Alura]

We agree with the previous posts but believe you should address the roots of the problems.

If jealously is a problem, that is probably a fear that one of you will "fall in love" with a playmate and leave. Once you assure the other that will not happen, this problem should abate.

Guilt may be more difficult to address since it is likely to be deeply embedded in your psyches as a result of religious indoctrination. If this is the case, you might want to study some history as well as the bible. Some important historical truths that may help are:

Sex was not considered a sin until Saul of Tarsus renamed himself Saint Paul and took it upon himself to deride it. It was not because he was particularly against sex, just that he felt the end was near and anything distracting from religious devotion was to be avoided. The power-hungry "Bloody Popes" of the Middle Ages added to the attitude that sex was sinful.

Jesus never spoke against sex. Some historians believe he had a lasting relationship with Mary Magdelene. Who knows? Sex didn't seem to be an important issue with him.

The bible was assembled under Constantine when he declared Christianity the official Roman religion, some 200 years after Jesus' death.

If you'd like to explore a different take on the subject of spiritual sexuality, you might consider reading the novel "Stranger in a Strange Land." (How do you underline, Julie?) You'll probably have to find it in a used book store. It's a wonderful read, even if you decide in the end that it's ridiculous. Be sure to get the unexpurgated version.

Neither of us is a history major. We'll call upon Quin to jump in here and add to or correct what we have written.

We do believe that if you are able to resolve these issues to both your satisfaction, you will not only have more fun swinging but will find your own marriage greatly enhanced and your ability to communicate far beyond anything you've ever dreamed of. If not, we'd suggest giving up swinging.

Alura

[ 08-15-2002, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Alura ]

[ciscosv]

My wife and I are more than interested in this type of lifestyle with all that you and we have to offer. We have done just about everything short of full swap andcould still consider ourselves newbies. The reason is because of our own limitations. We are that couple who do not actively have an ad out there looking for the full swap just met type of thing that I have seen in personals. Believe me that we do not at all have a problem with couples that are that way. Only they can choose what works and what doesn't. We stick together ALL the time! After all, she is my life partner. Never once have I felt guilt or jealousy. I think handling jealousy would be easier than guilt. We do fantasize about swapping with anther couple or group of couples my wife riding some cock but, that day has not arrived yet and need to be sure that both of us can handle it together. Gettin' a little too aroused and can't wait till I get off......work. We have met some extremely hott couples so far and continue to do so.

Everyone else seems to giving great advice to you. The guilt thing has got to get handled. I guess I could only tell you where we were at and why we have not jumped in head first.

Boy, sounds like you all think the deck is stacked against us! I sincerely hope that you are not right. I thought I stated rather imfatactly at the beginning of my post that NEITHER of us want to end the swinging and I guess I should also add that BOTH of us are commented to making it work. Perhaps I over stated the problem or perhaps I understated our commitment to each other. Ding and I are in a committed relationship! we have been married seventeen years and we are more in love and more turned on by each other than at the beginning. In seventeen years she and I have never went to bed angry or ever parted without a kiss.

That said there are the jealousy and guilt issues, but I find it hard to imagine that these aren't issues for all couples in varying degrees! Do you really mean to say that you have never questioned the ethics of your actions and never had any feelings of jealousy? Not even in the beginning?

[mehim]

oh boy !!!!! here i am back on the board sorry folks but work kept me away.... i allways thought swinging soposed to be fun and relaxing ,atleased it is for us .and we never had a jellois moment . maby because we talked and talked for a long time bevore we tried the walk ...even now we not just go to bed with anybody . with L+d it seams like to me, there are split personallitys i would say too talk lay back and figure out what you realy want!!!!i realy dont make anybody mad at me but i can state my opinion too <me>

quote:

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Originally posted by mehim:
... we never had a jellois moment . maby because we talked and talked for a long time bevore we tried the walk...

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Hi mehim. Probably be seeing you in a couple of weeks. You are almost certainly right. We did jump in too fast but the fact remains that we did and nothing will change that. We have had some wonderful times and we have had some rough riding but we have no regrets and are committed to our marriage with or without swinging. But "with" would be lots more fun. Don't you agree? So we intend to continue to talk while we walk cuz once you have started walking, crawling is just so damn boring. Oh but buy the way. I thought this thread was about "dealing with guilt". Everybody seems to want to comment on the jealousy issue. I asked about the guilt question because it is much harder for me to deal with. I can prove my devotion to Ding and therefore alleviate her jealousy but how do you deal with guilt?

[ 08-15-2002, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: L & D ]

[mehim]

guilt!!!!!i wish i had an answere but i dont , i never or should i say ,we never had to deal with it. i would say maby in time it fade away or get unbareable ,then you know what to do . <me>

[LovelyLynn]

Hi,I am new here and am not active in swinging just yetBut if I may suggest that Jealousy and Guilt go hand in hand,which is why a lot of people seem to dwell on the Jealousy.If you look at those emotions Guilt usually comes from the feeling that you have done something wrong.Jealousy comes from the fear that either someone else has/may do something wrong,or from the fear of self-inadequacies.Now you said you both feel guilty about swinging,you during and her after.Maby the best thing for you both to do is to figure out what is causing the Guilt,like what thoughts are going through your heads when you feel guilty,and then bring it out first.If you two can rationalize the basis of and the thoughts that make you feel guilty,it should take care of both problems at the same time

[TNT]

L&D,

I guess I don't really understand why you would feel guilty if there is no emotional involvement with the people you play with and you are not doing anything behind your spouse's back.

In a swinging relationship you are supposed to have the blessing and encouragement of your spouse to do whatever is within your agreed upon boundaries.

You must be able to separate between sex and making love.

Our swinging lifestyle is kept totally separate from any other part of our life. We have sex with other people, we DO NOT make love to them. We can both honestly say that neither of us have ever felt jealous or guilty about anything we have ever done.

The only way I can see me ever feeling guilty about anything we do in the lifestyle would be if I was keeping something from Ted. As we all know, honest communication is the major key in any relationship, especially a swinging relationship.

I do not keep things from Ted nor he from me, and we do not go over any bounderies that we have set, so therefore, no jealousy or guilt. How could I feel guilty about doing something that he has encouraged me to do and given me his blessing as well?

If the problems stem from the fact that there is a little voice inside your head saying "This is wrong, this is not the way marriage is suppose to be", then I encourage you to think outside the box. There is no right or wrong way to think, it is all a matter of the way you perceive things.

If you truly believe that there is nothing bad, wrong or immoral about the lifestyle, and you are not going against anything you and your spouse have agreed upon, then there really should not be any guilty feelings.

Teresa

P.S.
Alura, "Stranger in a Strange Land" is a great book, another one is "Time Enough for Love". Both will open your eyes to a whole new way of thinking about sex and love

quote:

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Originally posted by TNT:
... "Stranger in a Strange Land" is a great book, another one is "Time Enough for Love". Both will open your eyes to a whole new way of thinking about sex and love

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You know I read both of these books a long, long time ago. (Probably before many of you were born) I don't remember that they dealt with the issue of Sex. I remember there was something about eating in "Stranger" but I don't remember it having anything to do with oral sex.

Guess I should read them again.