Dealing With Guilt - Page 3

Runningman · 08-17-2002, 11:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Alura:
Guilt may be more difficult to address since it is likely to be deeply embedded in your psyches as a result of religious indoctrination. If this is the case, you might want to study some history as well as the bible. Some important historical truths that may help are:

Sex was not considered a sin until Saul of Tarsus renamed himself Saint Paul and took it upon himself to deride it.

Actually, *well* before Saul/Paul, Moses was given some rules, known as the Ten Commandments. One of them was "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbors Wife." Sometimes written as "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultry." So really, swinging would be a violation of God's moral direction and Will.

Further, I'm intrigued by the concept that "religious indoctrination" is soley responsible for guilt. People without a religious upbringing can feel guilt. Am I not correct? I would further suggest (though I have no empirical proof because how do you prove something like guilt?) that guilt may be "hardwired" in our very being and would suggest that our consiounce (sp) is affected for a reason.

Make of that what you will, but I couldn't let the *opinion* of the Bible teaching that "all sex is good" continue. That's just erroneous teaching. In fact, sex is encouraged between marriage partners. Any other form is considered adultry.

Sorry to rain on your parade.

OhioCouple · 08-18-2002, 10:00 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Runningman:
[QUOTE]
Make of that what you will, but I couldn't let the *opinion* of the Bible teaching that "all sex is good" continue. That's just erroneous teaching. In fact, sex is encouraged between marriage partners. Any other form is considered adultry.

Sorry to rain on your parade.

Runningman,

I am curious as to why you are even lurking around on this board. Perhaps you were just quoting religeous beliefs but your profile states you are a curious non-swinger. If you are looking to convert anyone here your efforts may prove to be a little more beneficial in Sunday School as many of us attend that too. It could be you have sat next to one of us there.

Sorry to rain on your parade.

Lori

McKinneyTwo · 08-18-2002, 10:09 AM

quote:
That's just erroneous teaching. In fact, sex is encouraged between marriage partners. Any other form is considered adultry.

Sorry, but that entire way of thinking is erroneous. By it's true definition adultery is cheating on your spouse... either mentally or physically. Coveting is the desire to take something away from someone else. If cheating is eliminated, and all actions become consentual, then it ceases to become adultery.

If you look at the big 10 as they were supposed to be viewed the you come up with what Jesus tried to impress upon people the entire time he was here: It's not how you disect the letter of the law and read in your own personal interpetaions, rather, it is all a matter of respecting Deity and respecting your neighbor. Is it morally wrong to steal from your neighbor? Sure it is. But if he loans you something thats ok. If he loans it to you and you don't give it back... then you have stolen it. Now you have ceased to respect your neighbor.

Socio-Religious philosophy will always be a matter of strong debate. And each person has the right to form their own opinion when it comes to religion. However, one mans opinion does not make it gospel...even mine. But I do know that you can obey every law of religion and still not respect your neighbor. And in doing so you have broken them all.

You could never rain on my parade...

Quin · 08-18-2002, 12:19 PM

I, also, looked at his profile yesterday after reading his post and decided at that time to just stop what I was posting to him as he's probably just some religious right wing zealot invading our boards to convert us. He's just the typical hit and run here.

But what I do have to say in regards particularly to his posting of the bible and/or religious teachings that sex between two people who are married is encouraged. Yes, it is encouraged but ONLY for procreation. It's not encouraged as a healthy thing to share between a husband and wife, two married people are to have sex to PROCREATE, no other reason. And some religious teachings would even have you to believe that if you cum and it doesn't result nine months later into a child, it's a waste of semen.

Also, there is a guy in the Bible (sorry can't remember his name, maybe someone here can) who not only indulged in sexual relations with his wife but also with his daughters. The Bible speaks of this specifically, didn't condemn his incest, in fact it didn't address it at all...so are we to then believe that the Bible encourages incest? Under your thinking, we should. Do you?

And naw, bucky...takes a little bit more to rain on my parade, especially when it comes to some hit and run.

Quin
[Smiley_sex]

frisson · 08-18-2002, 12:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Runningman:

Actually, *well* before Saul/Paul, Moses was given some rules, known as the Ten Commandments. One of them was "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbors Wife." Sometimes written as "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultry." So really, swinging would be a violation of God's moral direction and Will.

Further, I'm intrigued by the concept that "religious indoctrination" is soley responsible for guilt. People without a religious upbringing can feel guilt. Am I not correct? I would further suggest (though I have no empirical proof because how do you prove something like guilt?) that guilt may be "hardwired" in our very being and would suggest that our consiounce (sp) is affected for a reason.

Make of that what you will, but I couldn't let the *opinion* of the Bible teaching that "all sex is good" continue. That's just erroneous teaching. In fact, sex is encouraged between marriage partners. Any other form is considered adultry.

Sorry to rain on your parade.

I'm not going to address your religiously-based antagonism to open relationships, because arguing belief systems is tedious and almost always a waste of time. However, I will note that if you believe that what we're doing is wrong, then you've picked a curious place to spend your time.

Regarding the question of guilt, you are correct: religion is not the sole source of guilt. Any authority figure can induce guilt. However, those who have been brought up in the Judaeo-Christian religious traditions seem to be especially suspectible to feeling guilty, because that system so frequently uses guilt as a behavior-shaping mechanism. After a while, guilt becomes almost reflexive.

I am not clear what you mean about hardwired guilt. If you're suggesting that a sense of right and wrong about certain sexual practices is genetically encoded within us, that's preposterous. If that were the case, then sexual behavior and sexual morality would be more or less consistent from one society to another, because we know that genetically-based urges are almost impossible to overcome.

But cultural anthropology tells us that many if not most primitive societies are sexually promiscuous--guiltlessly and naturally promiscuous. That's one reason why these societies were so abhorrent to the Christian missionaries who first encountered thembecause they clearly suggested that there is no universal sense of sexual morality, and that sexual guilt and shame is not a natural condition.

Guilt and shame are rational concepts. They are learned; therefore they can be unlearned. Most of us here know that first hand. I would go so far as to say that nobody who has ever truly questioned the basis of his sexual morality would ever suggest that his sexual guilt is innate. Sexual guilt and shame may seem almost natural to someone who is steeped in Judaeo-Christian morality, but if it were natural it would not be so readily undone by the simple act of rejection.

mehim · 08-18-2002, 12:24 PM

oh boy ,im glad im not an od ball .and my feelings ,and brain fungtion just fine .i starting to have some compexes about my sexual expressions and the couples i know ,tould me im a fun person and great lover lol<put this in your pipe and smoke it >as for our part , we staying as far away as we can from L+D dont need that grab .and it will not be easy since we attant the same fungtions .we will not say anything bad about them .i think all teir so called friend going to find out in time what fruitloops are they .<could not find a better word in my german dictionary> ok i spoke me+him [Eek!]

OhioCouple · 08-18-2002, 01:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mehim:
oh boy ,im glad im not an od ball .and my feelings ,and brain fungtion just fine .i starting to have some compexes about my sexual expressions and the couples i know ,tould me im a fun person and great lover lol<put this in your pipe and smoke it >as for our part , we staying as far away as we can from L+D dont need that grab .and it will not be easy since we attant the same fungtions .we will not say anything bad about them .i think all teir so called friend going to find out in time what fruitloops are they .<could not find a better word in my german dictionary> ok i spoke me+him

mehim,

You are far from being an odd ball. Most true swingers have all their P's and Q's in check before even wading in the shallow pool much less diving in the deep end. (At least that has been my experience so far.) The odd balls are those that haven't established their own priorities and resolved their own issues prior to dabbling (sp) into this lifestyle.

Lori [kiss]

Runningman · 08-18-2002, 08:26 PM

Some excellent points have been made, and will give me some things to consider on the drive to work tomorrow.

As for those of you who are wondering, I've been lurking for a few months and the reason I'm here is because I find this whole cultural segment fascinating. I knew very little before I dropped in, but I feel much more educated than before.

I've concluded that swinging isn't for me. My reasons are my own, but after reading your many posts, I've realized it's just not my scene.

But please don't begrudge me if I hang out and read your posts. There's a lot of first hand experience available to learn from. And some good debate.

I have my Biblical interpretations - you have yours. I'm not here to tell you all to "repent or suffer the fires of Hell". I was just throwing in my two cents because I thought a prior statement was woefully misleading. I expected a lot of feedback and I got it. BOY, did I get it!

I'm just expanding my knowledge base and trying to share what I've learned in life.

I anticipate that I'll be told to crawl back under my rock and die like the rest of the hit-and-runs you get here. So be it.

Quin · 08-18-2002, 09:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Runningman:
Some excellent points have been made, and will give me some things to consider on the drive to work tomorrow.

As for those of you who are wondering, I've been lurking for a few months and the reason I'm here is because I find this whole cultural segment fascinating. I knew very little before I dropped in, but I feel much more educated than before.

I've concluded that swinging isn't for me. My reasons are my own, but after reading your many posts, I've realized it's just not my scene.

But please don't begrudge me if I hang out and read your posts. There's a lot of first hand experience available to learn from. And some good debate.

I have my Biblical interpretations - you have yours. I'm not here to tell you all to "repent or suffer the fires of Hell". I was just throwing in my two cents because I thought a prior statement was woefully misleading. I expected a lot of feedback and I got it. BOY, did I get it!

I'm just expanding my knowledge base and trying to share what I've learned in life.

I anticipate that I'll be told to crawl back under my rock and die like the rest of the hit-and-runs you get here. So be it.

If you have formally come out of de-lurking mode, that's great, Runningman, let me be the first to welcome you. And if swinging isn't for you, you'll get no argument from people here about it. Myself, as well as everyone here, will probably be the first and most vocal that this lifestyle isn't for everyone.

We have hits and runs here, we have people who come telling us we are sinners and will burn in hell because of our lifestyle...so you'll have to excuse us if we're a bit gun shy. [Eek!]

It is very difficult to discuss guilt, within regards to this lifestyle, without bringing in the religous aspect as for some, that aspect has been a very dominant force within their younger years and in the preaching/teaching of *morality* it is used by parents and confirmed by priests, preachers, Sunday School teachers, neighbors, and extended relatives which all may have and should rightly have a strong influence/impact on a young life (especially if you subscribe the the theory that it takes a village to raise a child). Even if you throw away the religious aspect of guilt, there is still a long, long history of guilt tied into people's sexuality. We're talking thousands and thousands of years, especially for women.

I'm truly sorry for my part in jumping on you and accusing of being a hit and run. I look forward to seeing you post more often, despite if we agree or disagree on any particular subject. [kiss]

Quin

Quin · 08-18-2002, 09:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mehim:
oh boy ,im glad im not an od ball .and my feelings ,and brain fungtion just fine .i starting to have some compexes about my sexual expressions and the couples i know ,tould me im a fun person and great lover lol<put this in your pipe and smoke it >as for our part , we staying as far away as we can from L+D dont need that grab .and it will not be easy since we attant the same fungtions .we will not say anything bad about them .i think all teir so called friend going to find out in time what fruitloops are they .<could not find a better word in my german dictionary> ok i spoke me+him

mehim, just want to say that I'm glad you're back with us and I have always enjoyed reading your posts. And let me add, that I have never thought you to be an oddball.

Quin
[Smiley_sex]

OhioCouple · 08-19-2002, 01:08 AM

Runningman,

I think Quin pretty much summed up my thoughts too. Everyone is welcome on this board whether you swing or don't. This lifestyle is not for everyone, but there is something on this board for everyone regardless of their preference.

Please accept my apologies for sounding so harsh. You are most definitely welcome to this board and the fact that you are honest enough to state your point of view speaks volumes. There are many good topics here that can assist in your own beliefs that do not specifically deal with swinging.

Again, welcome.

Lori

mehim · 08-19-2002, 06:35 AM

mehim, just want to say that I'm glad you're back with us and I have always enjoyed reading your posts. And let me add, that I have never thought you to be an oddball.

Quin
--------------------------------------------------
well thank you quin,i allways injoyed being here.i learned a lot.and allways eagor to learn moore.unfortunly i cant be here all the time the work in the summertime and the yardwork is allways between fun time. but like i sayed is my favored site and i allways will come here for advise <me>

Runningman · 08-21-2002, 11:17 PM

I seemed to have hijacked this thread away from it's intended purpose, and I apologize.

I was merely trying to suggest to L/D one possible source of their guilt. Perhaps they're not the type to be swinging either but insist upon it anyway.

I also had to respond to what I felt was an incorrect interpretation of Biblical scripture. We all have our own interpretations, don't we? I hadn't even considered that the word "adultry" could have more specific connotations than just having sex with someone other than one's spouse. Don't necessarily agree with that, but to each his own.

Lastly, I'd like to thank Quinn and Ohiocouple for their warm welcome. I have to say I was honestly surprised that find people open-minded enough to accept a differing viewpoint on this board, and I don't mean that as a slam on anyone. I just never expected it.

-RM

mehim · 08-21-2002, 11:35 PM

I was merely trying to suggest to L/D one possible source of their guilt. Perhaps they're not the type to be swinging either but insist upon it anyway.

--------------------------------------------------
im going to have to face them next weekend and shure could use some advise,

what to do .me with my temper im affraid if he say something stubid i scratch his eys out [Sad]

OhioCouple · 08-21-2002, 11:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mehim:
with my temper im affraid if he say something stubid i scratch his eys out

mehim,

It is unfortunate that it has come down to this. Remember tho that first and foremost you are a lady and an "honest" one at that. That alone says a lot. Just don't let 'em get to ya. Go with the attitude of heck with ya. Remember they caused their own problems, you didn't. Do not let the actions of another spoil your fun. Go and have a good time and do not allow yourself to feel tense. Should a situation arise that is provoked....well you are German..... [LOL]

, I have that in my blood too so I am not one to be tangled with and I definitely wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of yours! [LOL]

Lori

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08-17-2002, 11:46 PM	#31 (permalink)
Runningman Active Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 10 Location: MI	quote: Originally posted by Alura: Guilt may be more difficult to address since it is likely to be deeply embedded in your psyches as a result of religious indoctrination. If this is the case, you might want to study some history as well as the bible. Some important historical truths that may help are: Sex was not considered a sin until Saul of Tarsus renamed himself Saint Paul and took it upon himself to deride it. Actually, well before Saul/Paul, Moses was given some rules, known as the Ten Commandments. One of them was "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbors Wife." Sometimes written as "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultry." So really, swinging would be a violation of God's moral direction and Will. Further, I'm intrigued by the concept that "religious indoctrination" is soley responsible for guilt. People without a religious upbringing can feel guilt. Am I not correct? I would further suggest (though I have no empirical proof because how do you prove something like guilt?) that guilt may be "hardwired" in our very being and would suggest that our consiounce (sp) is affected for a reason. Make of that what you will, but I couldn't let the opinion of the Bible teaching that "all sex is good" continue. That's just erroneous teaching. In fact, sex is encouraged between marriage partners. Any other form is considered adultry. Sorry to rain on your parade.

08-18-2002, 10:00 AM	#32 (permalink)
OhioCouple Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,619 Location: Ohio Status: Married Female	quote: Originally posted by Runningman: [QUOTE] Make of that what you will, but I couldn't let the opinion of the Bible teaching that "all sex is good" continue. That's just erroneous teaching. In fact, sex is encouraged between marriage partners. Any other form is considered adultry. Sorry to rain on your parade. Runningman, I am curious as to why you are even lurking around on this board. Perhaps you were just quoting religeous beliefs but your profile states you are a curious non-swinger. If you are looking to convert anyone here your efforts may prove to be a little more beneficial in Sunday School as many of us attend that too. It could be you have sat next to one of us there. Sorry to rain on your parade. Lori
	__________________ Remember that human beings are complicated creatures. We like our bedtime routines but dislike routine in our bed times. - Sallie Foley, M.S.W.

08-18-2002, 10:09 AM	#33 (permalink)
McKinneyTwo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 1 Location: McKinney, Texas	quote: That's just erroneous teaching. In fact, sex is encouraged between marriage partners. Any other form is considered adultry. Sorry, but that entire way of thinking is erroneous. By it's true definition adultery is cheating on your spouse... either mentally or physically. Coveting is the desire to take something away from someone else. If cheating is eliminated, and all actions become consentual, then it ceases to become adultery. If you look at the big 10 as they were supposed to be viewed the you come up with what Jesus tried to impress upon people the entire time he was here: It's not how you disect the letter of the law and read in your own personal interpetaions, rather, it is all a matter of respecting Deity and respecting your neighbor. Is it morally wrong to steal from your neighbor? Sure it is. But if he loans you something thats ok. If he loans it to you and you don't give it back... then you have stolen it. Now you have ceased to respect your neighbor. Socio-Religious philosophy will always be a matter of strong debate. And each person has the right to form their own opinion when it comes to religion. However, one mans opinion does not make it gospel...even mine. But I do know that you can obey every law of religion and still not respect your neighbor. And in doing so you have broken them all. You could never rain on my parade...

08-18-2002, 12:19 PM	#34 (permalink)
Quin Swingers Board Addict Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,136 Location: Ohio Status: Single Female	I, also, looked at his profile yesterday after reading his post and decided at that time to just stop what I was posting to him as he's probably just some religious right wing zealot invading our boards to convert us. He's just the typical hit and run here. But what I do have to say in regards particularly to his posting of the bible and/or religious teachings that sex between two people who are married is encouraged. Yes, it is encouraged but ONLY for procreation. It's not encouraged as a healthy thing to share between a husband and wife, two married people are to have sex to PROCREATE, no other reason. And some religious teachings would even have you to believe that if you cum and it doesn't result nine months later into a child, it's a waste of semen. Also, there is a guy in the Bible (sorry can't remember his name, maybe someone here can) who not only indulged in sexual relations with his wife but also with his daughters. The Bible speaks of this specifically, didn't condemn his incest, in fact it didn't address it at all...so are we to then believe that the Bible encourages incest? Under your thinking, we should. Do you? And naw, bucky...takes a little bit more to rain on my parade, especially when it comes to some hit and run. Quin
	__________________ One thing about me is that I'm consistant in my behavior, my thoughts, and my posting. I don't sell out or change for any reason outside of my own self wanting to. What you see is what you get: today, tomorrow and every day after that.

08-18-2002, 12:22 PM	#35 (permalink)
frisson Here to Stay Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 80 Location: East Central Kansas	quote: Originally posted by Runningman: Actually, well before Saul/Paul, Moses was given some rules, known as the Ten Commandments. One of them was "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbors Wife." Sometimes written as "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultry." So really, swinging would be a violation of God's moral direction and Will. Further, I'm intrigued by the concept that "religious indoctrination" is soley responsible for guilt. People without a religious upbringing can feel guilt. Am I not correct? I would further suggest (though I have no empirical proof because how do you prove something like guilt?) that guilt may be "hardwired" in our very being and would suggest that our consiounce (sp) is affected for a reason. Make of that what you will, but I couldn't let the opinion of the Bible teaching that "all sex is good" continue. That's just erroneous teaching. In fact, sex is encouraged between marriage partners. Any other form is considered adultry. Sorry to rain on your parade. I'm not going to address your religiously-based antagonism to open relationships, because arguing belief systems is tedious and almost always a waste of time. However, I will note that if you believe that what we're doing is wrong, then you've picked a curious place to spend your time. Regarding the question of guilt, you are correct: religion is not the sole source of guilt. Any authority figure can induce guilt. However, those who have been brought up in the Judaeo-Christian religious traditions seem to be especially suspectible to feeling guilty, because that system so frequently uses guilt as a behavior-shaping mechanism. After a while, guilt becomes almost reflexive. I am not clear what you mean about hardwired guilt. If you're suggesting that a sense of right and wrong about certain sexual practices is genetically encoded within us, that's preposterous. If that were the case, then sexual behavior and sexual morality would be more or less consistent from one society to another, because we know that genetically-based urges are almost impossible to overcome. But cultural anthropology tells us that many if not most primitive societies are sexually promiscuous--guiltlessly and naturally promiscuous. That's one reason why these societies were so abhorrent to the Christian missionaries who first encountered thembecause they clearly suggested that there is no universal sense of sexual morality, and that sexual guilt and shame is not a natural condition. Guilt and shame are rational concepts. They are learned; therefore they can be unlearned. Most of us here know that first hand. I would go so far as to say that nobody who has ever truly questioned the basis of his sexual morality would ever suggest that his sexual guilt is innate. Sexual guilt and shame may seem almost natural to someone who is steeped in Judaeo-Christian morality, but if it were natural it would not be so readily undone by the simple act of rejection.

08-18-2002, 12:24 PM	#36 (permalink)
mehim Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 143 Location: ks Status: couple	oh boy ,im glad im not an od ball .and my feelings ,and brain fungtion just fine .i starting to have some compexes about my sexual expressions and the couples i know ,tould me im a fun person and great lover lol<put this in your pipe and smoke it >as for our part , we staying as far away as we can from L+D dont need that grab .and it will not be easy since we attant the same fungtions .we will not say anything bad about them .i think all teir so called friend going to find out in time what fruitloops are they .<could not find a better word in my german dictionary> ok i spoke me+him
	__________________ sex is like math, first you subtract the clothes,add the bed, divided the legs and hope you do not multiply at the end "

08-18-2002, 01:16 PM	#37 (permalink)
OhioCouple Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,619 Location: Ohio Status: Married Female	quote: Originally posted by mehim: oh boy ,im glad im not an od ball .and my feelings ,and brain fungtion just fine .i starting to have some compexes about my sexual expressions and the couples i know ,tould me im a fun person and great lover lol<put this in your pipe and smoke it >as for our part , we staying as far away as we can from L+D dont need that grab .and it will not be easy since we attant the same fungtions .we will not say anything bad about them .i think all teir so called friend going to find out in time what fruitloops are they .<could not find a better word in my german dictionary> ok i spoke me+him mehim, You are far from being an odd ball. Most true swingers have all their P's and Q's in check before even wading in the shallow pool much less diving in the deep end. (At least that has been my experience so far.) The odd balls are those that haven't established their own priorities and resolved their own issues prior to dabbling (sp) into this lifestyle. Lori
	__________________ Remember that human beings are complicated creatures. We like our bedtime routines but dislike routine in our bed times. - Sallie Foley, M.S.W.

08-18-2002, 08:26 PM	#38 (permalink)
Runningman Active Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 10 Location: MI	Some excellent points have been made, and will give me some things to consider on the drive to work tomorrow. As for those of you who are wondering, I've been lurking for a few months and the reason I'm here is because I find this whole cultural segment fascinating. I knew very little before I dropped in, but I feel much more educated than before. I've concluded that swinging isn't for me. My reasons are my own, but after reading your many posts, I've realized it's just not my scene. But please don't begrudge me if I hang out and read your posts. There's a lot of first hand experience available to learn from. And some good debate. I have my Biblical interpretations - you have yours. I'm not here to tell you all to "repent or suffer the fires of Hell". I was just throwing in my two cents because I thought a prior statement was woefully misleading. I expected a lot of feedback and I got it. BOY, did I get it! I'm just expanding my knowledge base and trying to share what I've learned in life. I anticipate that I'll be told to crawl back under my rock and die like the rest of the hit-and-runs you get here. So be it.

08-18-2002, 09:21 PM	#39 (permalink)
Quin Swingers Board Addict Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,136 Location: Ohio Status: Single Female	quote: Originally posted by Runningman: Some excellent points have been made, and will give me some things to consider on the drive to work tomorrow. As for those of you who are wondering, I've been lurking for a few months and the reason I'm here is because I find this whole cultural segment fascinating. I knew very little before I dropped in, but I feel much more educated than before. I've concluded that swinging isn't for me. My reasons are my own, but after reading your many posts, I've realized it's just not my scene. But please don't begrudge me if I hang out and read your posts. There's a lot of first hand experience available to learn from. And some good debate. I have my Biblical interpretations - you have yours. I'm not here to tell you all to "repent or suffer the fires of Hell". I was just throwing in my two cents because I thought a prior statement was woefully misleading. I expected a lot of feedback and I got it. BOY, did I get it! I'm just expanding my knowledge base and trying to share what I've learned in life. I anticipate that I'll be told to crawl back under my rock and die like the rest of the hit-and-runs you get here. So be it. If you have formally come out of de-lurking mode, that's great, Runningman, let me be the first to welcome you. And if swinging isn't for you, you'll get no argument from people here about it. Myself, as well as everyone here, will probably be the first and most vocal that this lifestyle isn't for everyone. We have hits and runs here, we have people who come telling us we are sinners and will burn in hell because of our lifestyle...so you'll have to excuse us if we're a bit gun shy. It is very difficult to discuss guilt, within regards to this lifestyle, without bringing in the religous aspect as for some, that aspect has been a very dominant force within their younger years and in the preaching/teaching of morality it is used by parents and confirmed by priests, preachers, Sunday School teachers, neighbors, and extended relatives which all may have and should rightly have a strong influence/impact on a young life (especially if you subscribe the the theory that it takes a village to raise a child). Even if you throw away the religious aspect of guilt, there is still a long, long history of guilt tied into people's sexuality. We're talking thousands and thousands of years, especially for women. I'm truly sorry for my part in jumping on you and accusing of being a hit and run. I look forward to seeing you post more often, despite if we agree or disagree on any particular subject. Quin
	__________________ One thing about me is that I'm consistant in my behavior, my thoughts, and my posting. I don't sell out or change for any reason outside of my own self wanting to. What you see is what you get: today, tomorrow and every day after that.

08-18-2002, 09:24 PM	#40 (permalink)
Quin Swingers Board Addict Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,136 Location: Ohio Status: Single Female	quote: Originally posted by mehim: oh boy ,im glad im not an od ball .and my feelings ,and brain fungtion just fine .i starting to have some compexes about my sexual expressions and the couples i know ,tould me im a fun person and great lover lol<put this in your pipe and smoke it >as for our part , we staying as far away as we can from L+D dont need that grab .and it will not be easy since we attant the same fungtions .we will not say anything bad about them .i think all teir so called friend going to find out in time what fruitloops are they .<could not find a better word in my german dictionary> ok i spoke me+him mehim, just want to say that I'm glad you're back with us and I have always enjoyed reading your posts. And let me add, that I have never thought you to be an oddball. Quin
	__________________ One thing about me is that I'm consistant in my behavior, my thoughts, and my posting. I don't sell out or change for any reason outside of my own self wanting to. What you see is what you get: today, tomorrow and every day after that.

08-19-2002, 01:08 AM	#41 (permalink)
OhioCouple Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,619 Location: Ohio Status: Married Female	Runningman, I think Quin pretty much summed up my thoughts too. Everyone is welcome on this board whether you swing or don't. This lifestyle is not for everyone, but there is something on this board for everyone regardless of their preference. Please accept my apologies for sounding so harsh. You are most definitely welcome to this board and the fact that you are honest enough to state your point of view speaks volumes. There are many good topics here that can assist in your own beliefs that do not specifically deal with swinging. Again, welcome. Lori
	__________________ Remember that human beings are complicated creatures. We like our bedtime routines but dislike routine in our bed times. - Sallie Foley, M.S.W.

08-19-2002, 06:35 AM	#42 (permalink)
mehim Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 143 Location: ks Status: couple	mehim, just want to say that I'm glad you're back with us and I have always enjoyed reading your posts. And let me add, that I have never thought you to be an oddball. Quin -------------------------------------------------- well thank you quin,i allways injoyed being here.i learned a lot.and allways eagor to learn moore.unfortunly i cant be here all the time the work in the summertime and the yardwork is allways between fun time. but like i sayed is my favored site and i allways will come here for advise <me>
	__________________ sex is like math, first you subtract the clothes,add the bed, divided the legs and hope you do not multiply at the end "

08-21-2002, 11:17 PM	#43 (permalink)
Runningman Active Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 10 Location: MI	I seemed to have hijacked this thread away from it's intended purpose, and I apologize. I was merely trying to suggest to L/D one possible source of their guilt. Perhaps they're not the type to be swinging either but insist upon it anyway. I also had to respond to what I felt was an incorrect interpretation of Biblical scripture. We all have our own interpretations, don't we? I hadn't even considered that the word "adultry" could have more specific connotations than just having sex with someone other than one's spouse. Don't necessarily agree with that, but to each his own. Lastly, I'd like to thank Quinn and Ohiocouple for their warm welcome. I have to say I was honestly surprised that find people open-minded enough to accept a differing viewpoint on this board, and I don't mean that as a slam on anyone. I just never expected it. -RM

08-21-2002, 11:35 PM	#44 (permalink)
mehim Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 143 Location: ks Status: couple	I was merely trying to suggest to L/D one possible source of their guilt. Perhaps they're not the type to be swinging either but insist upon it anyway. -------------------------------------------------- im going to have to face them next weekend and shure could use some advise, what to do .me with my temper im affraid if he say something stubid i scratch his eys out
	__________________ sex is like math, first you subtract the clothes,add the bed, divided the legs and hope you do not multiply at the end "

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08-21-2002, 11:55 PM	#45 (permalink)
OhioCouple Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,619 Location: Ohio Status: Married Female	quote: Originally posted by mehim: with my temper im affraid if he say something stubid i scratch his eys out mehim, It is unfortunate that it has come down to this. Remember tho that first and foremost you are a lady and an "honest" one at that. That alone says a lot. Just don't let 'em get to ya. Go with the attitude of heck with ya. Remember they caused their own problems, you didn't. Do not let the actions of another spoil your fun. Go and have a good time and do not allow yourself to feel tense. Should a situation arise that is provoked....well you are German..... , I have that in my blood too so I am not one to be tangled with and I definitely wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of yours! Lori
	__________________ Remember that human beings are complicated creatures. We like our bedtime routines but dislike routine in our bed times. - Sallie Foley, M.S.W.

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