boyfriend feeling guilt

[cara1]

I am in a relationship with a wonderful man that love and respect. From the beginning, we agreed that we would have an open relationship. He stated that he could never be satisfied with one woman, and loves women too much to ever quit pursuing them. I happily agreed to this arrangement because I do not feel that monogamy is natural, especially for men. Basically, we have the "don't ask, and don't tell policy".

I do not have intimate relations with other single men. However, I do enjoy threesomes with a married couple that I see on a regular basis. My boyfriend does actively pursue other women, and I believe that he has regular sexual relations with them. This has never been a problem for us. I have been happier with this relationship than any other in my life. I felt that the lack of jealousy, and total freedom had strengthened our bond. I felt that the love we had for one another was very beautiful and honest.

Recently he confided with me that he loves sex very much, yet, feels that it is a great sin. He feels that everytime he has sex with me or any other woman, he greatly displeases God. What bothers me so much is that I now feel that he views our intimacy as sinful, and dirty. The beautiful moments we've shared now seem disgusting, and dishonest, due to his confession of guilt.

I told him today that I do not wish to date him because I do not want to contribute to anything that makes him feel sinful. I can offer him my friendship, and anything, other than sex. He feels that this is irrational, and we should continue with our relationship because both of us are going to have sex with other people, regardless.

Can anyone offer me any advice on how I can explain to him that I do not want to contribute to his guilt, or participate in any activity that he does not view as beautiful and without sin? Do I sound irrational?

[intuition897]

Well...

It occurs to me that perhaps he should be working toward ridding himself of an irrational guilt, rather than giving up a perfectly good relationship. I'm not sure what his views are, or how open he is to changing his beliefs, but I can't understand how sex could be viewed as sinful. God created it! He told us to go forth, be fruitful and multiply! You can't accomplish the fruitful multiplication without some serious screwin'. I just don't understand what his reasoning is. I mean, sex is a very basic drive; it's there for a purpose. And in Romans 14, you'll read that "Nothing is unclean of itself." Which means that it's not so much what you do; it's who you hurt by it, and why you do it. So if he considers sex a sin, then for him, it is a sin, because he 'breaks the rules' in his own heart when he does it. For Mr. intuition and I, sex is perfectly natural and, I believe, acceptable in God's sight. What we do glorifies our marriage, which is holy. So by doing this, by extension, we honour God. We are diligently moderate and conscientious in our actions and do everything we reasonably can to be sure that our actions are not hurting anyone else. This feels perfectly right to us, and to behave otherwise, to go back to the strictly imposed monogamy - just for the sake of being monogamous - woud feel wrong to us. Not just uncomfortable, but actually wrong.

I think perhaps your boyfriend needs to ask himself some tough questions about his beliefs and be prepared to reconsider them. It's his life, but I just don't think that seeing sex as 'dirty' or 'sinful' is productive or healthy. Have you also tried communicating to him how his revelation made you feel?

[JTcamp05]

You have a few hard questions in your post. I can't expect you will find too many people in this format that will agree with your boyfriends behavior or thought process. I do however think that your response of "taking a break" from sex with him is the correct response. It sure sounds like he has many many issues to work through. I would think that you continuing so have sex would not solve anything, only continue his confusion.

Many people outsid of the swinging lifestyle I'm sure feel that we as swingers are all sinners and will burn in hell ect...ect..ect... I think this is a very much unfair and un true perception. In fact I consider myself a religious person. Do I feel that what we do is right in the chruch's eyes...."no"....Do I feel guilty for it...."no".... I just accept who I am and what I do. On the other hand do I feel that I am a sinner for these actions....."no"..... I am a good person, I live my life as a good person does, I make decisions in life based on how I feel a good person would and should make them...... Why should anyone feel guilty for living like that?

Thats my views everyone is different though.....I wish you two the best of luck....I hope he can find peace with the road he takes!!

[cara1]

Thanks for the responses. I have communicated with him about how his revelation makes me feel. We've talked hours on end about this! He doesn't understand that I feel uncomfortable with providing him with something that he feels is sinful. In his view, if I don't find it sinful, then I shouldn't have a problem with providing the sex. I just can't make him understand that by continuing to have sex with him would mean that I did not respect his beliefs, and him in general. I mean I wouldn't provide alcohol to an alcoholic, feed pork to a muslim, make a hindu slaughter a cow. lol To me it is a matter of respect for the essense of a person. But perhaps a free love person with a swinger mentality isn't supposed to hold humanity in high regard.

We met on Adult Friend Finders, and I felt we both held healthy views about sexuality. I guess I was wrong. I am thinking that if 40 year old, highly sexual man wants to keep me in an open relationship, and feel guilty about the sex we have, then he isn't appreciating the love and freedom I give him. I do believe that I'll stick to the no sex approach, and offer only my support and friendship. I really feel that his hang ups about sex offer me a no win situation. In fact, a man afflicted with religious guilt, having multiple sex partners is showing disrespect for all the women he is in contact with.

Thanks for letting me vent!

[cara1]

Originally Posted by intuition897

Well...

I'm not sure what his views are, or how open he is to changing his beliefs, but I can't understand how sex could be viewed as sinful. God created it! He told us to go forth, be fruitful and multiply! You can't accomplish the fruitful multiplication without some serious screwin'. I just don't understand what his reasoning is. I mean, sex is a very basic drive; it's there for a purpose. And in Romans 14, you'll read that "Nothing is unclean of itself." Which means that it's not so much what you do; it's who you hurt by it, and why you do it. So if he considers sex a sin, then for him, it is a sin, because he 'breaks the rules' in his own heart when he does it.

Like you I cannot understand how sex can be considered sinful. I was raised Christian, and he was raised Muslim. Both of us were taught that sex is only acceptable in marriage. I was able to form my own views, aside from church dogma, and as a result, I live in peace with my sexuality. Appearantly, he agrees with the religious teachings of his youth, but chooses not to abide by them. When I think about how I would feel if I was living in opposition to my values and beliefs, I know that I would feel little self-worth. As a result, I think I need to let him continue to cause himself harm. But I'll be damned if I'm going to be part of his destructive behaviors. lol

[Mr. Better Half]

Swinging is all about open communication and extreme honesty. Normally when we say this, we are talking about communication and honesty between the members of a couple. For example, being able to say, "I want to have sex with other people" or "That guy really turns me on" requires an honesty that non-swingers (I believe) don't ever quite get. Why? Because I think most couples want to have sex with other people (basic human nature); they just have not yet reached the point in their relationship where they trust each other not to go ballistic when presented with a true statement.

What is interesting about your situation is that while your boyfriend is able to be honest with you, he cannot be honest with himself. To say that having sex with you is a sin, but he will still do it because he wants to, presents an internal inconsistency that would make most people very uncomfortable. More likely, part of him doesn't believe that it really is a sin (because it hurts no one) but he is unwilling to challenge his early religious upbringing. He is tricking himself, so to speak. If he can't be honest and open with himself and resolve this internal inconsistency, I'm not sure that he would be a good partner.

However, this is just my opinion. And I admit that hypocrisy is a pet peeve of mine. Preachers that condemn infidelity but get caught in affairs, politicians that condemn corruption and then get caught taking bribes, and yes, boyfriends that say sex outside of marriage is wrong but are perfectly willing to do it anyway.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by cara1

Like you I cannot understand how sex can be considered sinful. I was raised Christian, and he was raised Muslim. Both of us were taught that sex is only acceptable in marriage. I was able to form my own views, aside from church dogma, and as a result, I live in peace with my sexuality. Appearantly, he agrees with the religious teachings of his youth, but chooses not to abide by them. When I think about how I would feel if I was living in opposition to my values and beliefs, I know that I would feel little self-worth. As a result, I think I need to let him continue to cause himself harm. But I'll be damned if I'm going to be part of his destructive behaviors. lol

I like you.

Cara, you certainly seem to have your head on straight. My views are like a mirror image of mine. I sure hope you two can sort this out. And I also agree that taking a break from sex is a good idea. I just meant that maybe you didn't want to trash the entire relationship over this. Keep us posted, eh?

[sereneiders]

Cara,

At first glance I understand your feelings and toughts. My two cents and a question here.

Couldn't he feeling the need to turn the relationsip into a monogamy, even unconciously, in such a way his expression about sins would be a way to limit himself as to make you act in accordance and limit yourself too? Or the opposite, by feeling too much commitment already for his taste, and being unable to feel himself guilty from push you away, to find (unconsciously again) something able to freak you enough as to make you into the one pushing him away and thake the blame for doing it?

Now the question. You said he was raised Muslim. As far as I know, Muslims accept polyamorial relationships between one man and as many women as he can provide a welfare. Even when he's jumping from bed to bed and there's nothing you said clarifying how much he fits to the "provider" role towards the women he have sex with, including yourself, it seems to me that what he's doing is closer to this dogma than what you do (women should have just one husband), and at least for him you'd be "more sinner" than him. I know everyone have his/her own very perception and relation with God (whoever the God is), but this seems somehow odd to me. How does he correlate his sinfull feelings with being Muslim, or at least, with these Muslim dogmas?

[cara1]

Originally Posted by sereneiders

Cara,

At first glance I understand your feelings and toughts. My two cents and a question here.

Couldn't he feeling the need to turn the relationsip into a monogamy, even unconciously, in such a way his expression about sins would be a way to limit himself as to make you act in accordance and limit yourself too? Or the opposite, by feeling too much commitment already for his taste, and being unable to feel himself guilty from push you away, to find (unconsciously again) something able to freak you enough as to make you into the one pushing him away and thake the blame for doing it?

Now the question. You said he was raised Muslim. As far as I know, Muslims accept polyamorial relationships between one man and as many women as he can provide a welfare. Even when he's jumping from bed to bed and there's nothing you said clarifying how much he fits to the "provider" role towards the women he have sex with, including yourself, it seems to me that what he's doing is closer to this dogma than what you do (women should have just one husband), and at least for him you'd be "more sinner" than him. I know everyone have his/her own very perception and relation with God (whoever the God is), but this seems somehow odd to me. How does he correlate his sinfull feelings with being Muslim, or at least, with these Muslim dogmas?

Hi! You raised excellent points. I haven't been visiting this site, or any site, for a while because I've been feeling a bit blue. I am sorry that I didn't update you previously.

Actually, you read this relationship quite well. He has been demanding monogamy from me. Of course, he isn't willing to do the same. It looks like this relationship which is perfect in so many ways will not last.

[WesternSwing]

That sucks, cara1. Unfortunately much of Western religions is based on the very double standard you are experiencing. Good luck to you, and I hope you stay around here regardless.

Mr. WS

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

Unfortunately much of Western religions is based on the very double standard you are experiencing.

I don't know I could blame religiongs for the double standards. I believe double standards came from people who have conflicts with the relgions dogmaes and their personal interests and desires.

Let say, upon the Muslim dogma, this guy have the right to have multiple partners... but he should marry them all, and he should be able to provide for them all as to marry them. We may say the standard isn't the same for both genders, and it is true, as much as in other aspects of life there are standards granting women some rights males doesn't have. For people inmersed in this culture, this isn problematic. The problem arouses when different cultures collide and we start making comparisons between the adventages certain culture give to some individuals, in such a way that in the other culture these individuals are being seen as deprived from these "adventages", isolatedly (i.e. without taking into account other adventages that their culture have that may compensate the deprivings for people inmersed in that culture).

The problem isn't about Western religions, isn't about this guy being Muslim, insth'a bout this gal being not Mulsim, but about combining this facts, without noe of them being able or up to negotiate values.

[curiousagain]

Originally Posted by cara1

Actually, you read this relationship quite well. He has been demanding monogamy from me. Of course, he isn't willing to do the same. It looks like this relationship which is perfect in so many ways will not last.

It doesn't sound like it's his religious views that are the trouble. I think his double standard BS is the trouble. Run, away, fast, never look back. It's the tip of the iceberg of a whole lot of baggage and issues that you can't help him with at this point in his life.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by cara1

He has been demanding monogamy from me. Of course, he isn't willing to do the same. It looks like this relationship which is perfect in so many ways will not last.

Agreeing on whether you're both going to be monogamous or not is pretty fundamental to a relationship, no matter how "perfect" it may seem in other ways. There ARE things that, alone and by themselves, are "deal-breakers."

There's this guy I work with...very conservative, a little naive...grew up on a farm in Ohio, but travels all over the world now. A few years ago, he was on an overnight trip to New York City, when he got lucky with a woman he met in a bar near his hotel. Things were getting pretty heated at the bar, so he decided to take her back to his room at the old Milford Plaza. They were in the elevator, headed for the 22nd floor, when the last person got off at the 10th and the doors closed. Alone now, he turned to engage her in one last kiss. As he did so, he reached up under her dress and learned that "she" had a big, fat, DICK!

"Bigger than mine!" he later reported.

Alas, a relationship which, like yours, was "perfect in so many ways," but that did not last...

[cara1]

Originally Posted by JnCC

Agreeing on whether you're both going to be monogamous or not is pretty fundamental to a relationship, no matter how "perfect" it may seem in other ways. There ARE things that, alone and by themselves, are "deal-breakers."

There's this guy I work with...very conservative, a little naive...grew up on a farm in Ohio, but travels all over the world now. A few years ago, he was on an overnight trip to New York City, when he got lucky with a woman he met in a bar near his hotel. Things were getting pretty heated at the bar, so he decided to take her back to his room at the old Milford Plaza. They were in the elevator, headed for the 22nd floor, when the last person got off at the 10th and the doors closed. Alone now, he turned to engage her in one last kiss. As he did so, he reached up under her dress and learned that "she" had a big, fat, DICK!

"Bigger than mine!" he later reported.

Alas, a relationship which, like yours, was "perfect in so many ways," but that did not last...

lol...so I guess that was a deal breaker