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Thread: Wife doesn't want to talk to me about our play with friends...

  1. #16

    Default Re: Wondering where to go from here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Newbie_Guy View Post
    I’m sure assumptions have no place in swinging. Just because I’m ok with her doing something doesn’t mean she’d be ok with me. Just because she’s ok with seeing me get a blow job, I can’t assume she’s ok with me performing oral sex on the other women.
    I would take this thought even further. Is she okay with doing things to other people? At first, this doesn't seem to make much sense. From what I've read, many "help me" posts start out like this.

    We went to a club, we were having sex doggie style. I was okay with another man having sex with my wife, so I called one over and let him have sex with my wife. Now my wife hates my guts, and never wants to swing again.

    The problem in this is that She was not okay having sex with another man. Just because you are okay with her having sex with another man does not mean that she is too. It's not just about being okay seeing your partner doing stuff, they have to be okay with doing stuff as well. The man in the story doesn't seem to care about what his wife wants to do, he's only focusing on what he's okay with her doing.

    From what I've read, it seems that when a woman is going back and forth emotionally, they are trying to come to terms with something they did that "they shouldn't be doing". Most women are brought up with a "sex is dirty and icky" mentality. It's very tough to break through that, and it takes time.

    Even if you have the conversation 5 minutes at a time because that's all she can handle, that's what you do. The communication has to happen, but it will happen in the slowest person's (her) time.

    God speed.

  2. #17

    Default Re: Wondering where to go from here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Newbie_Guy View Post
    Ummmm bbarnsworth, you really need to join us in the hot tub! Thanks so much for the advice. It's what I was looking for and more.
    Hmmm. I'm actually going to be quite close to Canada this Saturday, come to think of it Of course, that's like saying "Oh, you're from Toronto? Do you know so-and-so?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Newbie_Guy View Post
    Are cheat notes permitted?
    Crib notes permitted, licensed under CC-BY-SA with no warranty or guarantee of applicability, accuracy, or acceptability

    My wife and I have in the past talked with couples over the phone just as a source of information and advice from actual swingers. People getting into the lifestyle frequently have soooooo many questions. That's wonderful, but not every couple does well getting information from sources such as a forum.

    I caution you again to be patient. I know it's hard. Your last experience was sooo hot and sooo fun you want it to happen again yesterday. But, this car can't move forward unless the wheels on both sides of the car are moving at the same speed. Your wife is moving slower. Move at her pace, don't push, open doors and discuss, and be patient.

    A poster above noted the serious bad reaction he got from his wife when he invited another man to have sex with her, apparently without prior discussion with and consent from her. Oops. You having sex with the other wife could generate a very similar reaction in her, if it's not discussed and agreed on beforehand. The first time I had sex with a play partner, my wife and I had discussed it many times before, and I even asked her point blank, very directly (in private) a few minutes before things started happening. Just because your wife is doing something doesn't give you permission to do the same thing. Tit-for-tat scenarios, undiscussed, often enough lead to disaster.

  3. #18

    Default Re: Wondering where to go from here!

    We had/have a very similar situation to yours- close friends, drinking, sexy talk, sexy acts, soft swap, and then a quasi poly-quad relationship that’s still going strong... without the alcohol. Mind you, this progressed over a period of a year… and the beginning was very confusing and ultimately what led us to this forum.

    The best advice we got from this board is the communication piece. I won’t beat a dead horse with that, but understand that complete and total honesty is paramount, yet rarely expressed… so be cautious and sure about the signals you receive from everyone involved- especially those from your wife. The next best piece of advice we got was that the situation/relationship move at the pace of the slowest person- don’t rush things and don’t keep expecting things to happen every time you’re together as a group until you ALL talk about it together and make a conscious decision to move forward- together.

    For us, having honest conversations… and trusting what was said during those conversations has led us to sexual nirvana with another couple- but then again, we’re really just getting into this so the “final” opinion is still out there. What works for us is that there is a very strong sexual attraction between four people with extremely open minds… and little, if any, emotional possession. Could that happen- the emotion part? Possibly… but so far it hasn’t, and we don’t play alone or have separate conversations (with the other spouse) where that kind of thing most commonly occurs- and that would be my advice to you based on our experiences.

    In any case, I wish you luck and I hope everyone has a wonderful journey. It truly is enlightening, liberating, and empowering- just be careful, smart, and constantly reflect when it comes to emotions.

  4. #19

    Default Re: Wondering where to go from here!

    Just a real quick update. We're communicating! Slowly, which is fine by me! We're establishing OUR ground rules. My wife has expressed that she did enjoy herself and she does want to "play" some more.

    The other couple are also our vanilla friends and my wife has said she doesn't want to end up in bed every time we get together. I totally agree with her. She knows where I'm at boundary wise. I don't have any restrictions on her. If she's having fun she can do whatever she wants with either of them. She's still thinking about where she is at. I want to know exactly what is and isn’t acceptable for me to do with the other women. I want to be clear so there's no confusion. She’s told me she's not ready to see me fuck the other women. I'm totally cool with that. I think I’m free to do everything else. I'm not letting it go at just that. I told her I need to know exactly what is aloud. Me performing oral, masturbation, me getting oral, toys ect ect? Specifically what is and isn’t aloud. Once we know the rules I'll never break them. That way fun can be had by all. I don’t have to wonder if this or that is really ok. We still have things to discuss. My wife has asked for some time to think. When we have it figured out, we'll sit down with the other couple. If it works for them we'll continue on.

  5. #20

    Default Re: Wondering where to go from here!

    Thanks for the update! Keep 'em coming

    Sounds like you're on the right track. I was thinking about you while I was near Canada that weekend, hoping things were going well.

  6. #21

    Default Re: Wondering where to go from here!

    Do you guys think we need to sit down and officially discuss “rules” with our friends? At first I thought communication with all involved, all four of us sit down. But now I just don’t know. The more my wife and I talk the more I realize this is really about us and it’s not about these friends at all. We’ll do what we’re comfortable doing. I don’t really see why we have to lay it all out for them. I can do this she'll do that. Man, that just seems like work!

    If the other women asked me to fuck her could I not just politely say no, we’re not there just yet, and then do something else with her?

    Don’t get me wrong, of course we’ll discuss things. We’ve been doing so since the two women hooked up years ago. We're close friends so we're not shy. I’m just not sure we need to sit down and have the official TALK! I'm not sure they NEED to know EXACTLY what's going on in our heads. Isn’t that for us to know?

  7. #22

    Default Re: Wondering where to go from here!

    If we are going to play with someone new we would prefer to know their rules upfront and we ask early on in our conversations. We like to know the other couple has discussed their boundaries. There's no reason to keep your friends in the dark about what your rules are. It makes for awkward situations. Keeping your reasons to yourself is fine. Communication in swinging is really important between you and your spouse, but also between you guys and the other couple or single.

    Good luck!

  8. #23

    Default Re: Wondering where to go from here!

    What funcoupledayton said.

    It's easy to say 'no' to big things (like having sex). It's not so easy to say no to little things or be aware that the other couple has some 'little things' rule. You might (or they might) unintentionally cross a line.

    When my wife and I play, we always have a short discussion with the other couple or single male and let them know what our rules are (which isn't much). Even though our rules are virtually non-existent, having the conversation let's them know that.

    It's a good drama avoidance technique.

  9. #24

    Default Re: Wondering where to go from here!

    Quote Originally Posted by bbarnsworth View Post
    What funcoupledayton said.
    When my wife and I play, we always have a short discussion with the other couple or single male and let them know what our rules are (which isn't much).

    It's a good drama avoidance technique.
    So a short conversation with the who's and the how's should do! See my only fear (and I may be over analyzing things) is I don't want the discussion to become a negotiation. Or to feel like a negotiation! Or to come across as if our friends should feel privileged that we're willing to play with them.

    Like I said we're still a ways away. I want to have all our ducks in a line before we go ahead. We're vanilla friends so we do find ourselves in a threesome situation from time to time. (not that kind… lol) For whatever reason one of us can't make it to a social event but the other three can. What are the rules if one of the four isn’t there? Would you discuss all this with them or just the big stuff? What we can and can't do?

  10. #25

    Default Re: Wondering where to go from here!

    What makes you think this couple may not be having some of the same discussions you are having?

    If you and your wife are comfortable with things the way they have played out the last few times...things being more playful, happening as they may...then just let it flow that way...because some people are fine just letting things go where they may. You start talking rules and regulations...it might flip your friends out on some level because there are some that like to play around as much as the next...but tell them what they are doing is swinging and watch the sparks fly. lol Kind of like "oh it just happened, so that's cool" not "we've thought and planned this out, what kind of people are we?!"

    As others have said...get square between you and your wife what your comfort levels are. Then reach out to the other couple..."hey we've had fun the last few times we've gotten together and its really gotten us talking about what we are comfortable with happening...we just want to see if you are on the same page" sort of thing.

    Be prepared to deal with their boundaries as well. You are okay with the other hubby having sex with your wife...but they may feel that since you are not able to have sex with the other wife, then the hubby can't have sex with your wife. Discuss that possibility with your wife. Heck, the other couple may be completely cool with what has been going on and may not want to have intercourse, but be find with the sexy time and maybe just watching each other have sex with their own spouses. But you won't know that unless you talk to them at some point. Just you know...don't bring a million rules to the table because someone will forget something along the way. Or they may feel like "well that was fun, but breaking things down to section 8 paragraph 3 line 6 states...just sucks all the fun out of what has been happening"

    Good luck sounds like the communication with your wife is going well!
    Maria

  11. #26

    Default Re: Wondering where to go from here!

    Quote Originally Posted by sexcupid View Post
    Or they may feel like "well that was fun, but breaking things down to section 8 paragraph 3 line 6 states...just sucks all the fun out of what has been happening"

    Good luck sounds like the communication with your wife is going well!
    That's exactly what I was thinking!

    This much I know, our friends are the aggressors. (And you can group me in with them) My wife is the slowest moving member of the four of us, not that there's any problem going at her pace.

    How do I balance our rules without making them think OMG, is it even worth it. Who wants to be considering 18 rules when you’re suppose to be enjoying yourself?

    Though not set in stone yet as my wife and I have more talking to do this is where I think things will end up. We don't want to swing every time we get together. If everyone is in the mood fine but it's not to be expected by either couple. The women will be free to do what they want together. It's not fair but women rule in this world. If they're both good with it, go for it. The other man is to follow my wife's lead. He's not to be the aggressor. If she goes from blowing him to fucking him it's fine with me. I don't want him to just mount her from behind if she's doing something with me or his wife. It's ok for him to do whatever as long as my wife is calling the shots. Right now, my wife isn't comfortable with me fucking the other women. Our rules may change. We may throw rules out or add rules in once things progress. That’s it... easy and too the point. Then obviously we'd expect to listen to any rules they have.

    This is about my wife and I. I don't feel I should have to break everything down for them (other couple) and I really don't need to hear about how or why the other couple got to where they are. Lets just have fun!

    If it can work (in a drama free way) we'll play. If not, we're still friends.

  12. #27

    Default Re: Wondering where to go from here!

    Well I would encourage you to search here for threads on rules. There are tons of them. Most people start out with tons of them and most end up tossing them out the window after the first few playtimes. However, you've already had those first few times...so I'm curious (or perhaps nosy lol) if anything that happened...particularly in the second event, since there was more interaction between the men and women and not just the ladies putting on a show...that has now been ruled out?

    One more thought on rules...the more of them there are, the more likely they are to be forgotten in the heat of the moment...or if its something that has been in your repertoire (like idk...kissing someone's neck or shoulder while they ride you) and that is now crossed off your list...well there is a greater chance that you will "mess up".

    And yes it is about you and your wife...but it is also about the other couple as well. So while it doesn't have to be a long and involved conversation...it is wise to see what they are interested in happening. I know there are some threads here also about couples where the guy wanted to play...but didn't to start off and all play was focused on the wife...and like 3 or 4 years later he's still sitting on the sidelines because she was still having difficulty wrapping her mind around him having sex with someone else while she had already had sex with a small battalion of someone else's in that time.

    Your wife is the slowest moving one at this time and I am not saying make her do something she doesn't want to do. But it would be wise while you are having these discussions to dig into the reasons she isn't comfortable with you having sex with someone else while she is being given the freedom to do so. Things don't always have to be "fair" or even so to speak...but I think it would be beneficial to find out if her reasons trend along the fear of the unknown and she will be okay with time...or if its more on the end of hell no and why.
    Maria

  13. #28
    Swingers Board Addict Coupleerotic22's Avatar
    Status
    M. Male - MrsCoupleErotic's other half

    Default Re: Wondering where to go from here!

    First, let me say I am guilty of not reading this thread from the beginning, but you last comment about the talk I wanted to address.

    It does not need to be a negotiation. It can just be part of the conversation.

    After some small talk, chit chat, whatever, but when the conversation turns to play or BEFORE things start heating up, just bring up your ground rules.

    For example:

    You: Hey guys, before we get to far down the road, I just wanted to know if what the ground rules are, the boundaries so to speak.

    Them: Well, we are good with just about anything. No animials, though (laughing by all)

    You: Well, WE are new to this and want to ease into it so everyone is comfortable. So we have a couple of things we want to get out there. If that is okay.

    Them: Sure, fire away.

    You: No intercourse, oral is fine, but lets stay away from penetration for now. Maybe another time, maybe not, we just have to feel our way through this.



    It can be as easy and laid back as that, just know what you want to say and work it into the conversation. No need to make a big show of it.

    We have almost always worked out any big issues BEFORE we even have met, but we still go over the ground rules before we play. For example, I might say to the guy "You have enough condoms? I would hate for things to bog down, because we don't play without them, if you needs some more let me know, I have plenty."

    Last note: as you make your rules think about WHY you want those rules. We made a book full before we started playing. It did not take long to get rid of most all of them because we realized we did not need them. SO think about why you want the rules. Try to keep them to a minimum, but enough so you feel comfortable. It is sex, if you have too may rules to remember, you end up thinking about rules and not having fun.
    Last edited by Coupleerotic22; 08-18-2010 at 05:48 PM.

  14. #29

    Default Re: Wondering where to go from here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Coupleerotic22 View Post
    First, let me say I am guilty of not reading this thread from the beginning, but you last comment about the talk I wanted to address.

    It does not need to be a negotiation. It can just be part of the conversation.

    After some small talk, chit chat, whatever, but when the conversation turns to play or BEFORE things start heating up, just bring up your ground rules.

    For example:

    You: Hey guys, before we get to far down the road, I just wanted to know if what the ground rules are, the boundaries so to speak.

    Them: Well, we are good with just about anything. No animials, though (laughing by all)

    You: Well, WE are new to this and want to ease into it so everyone is comfortable. So we have a couple of things we want to get out there. If that is okay.

    Them: Sure, fire away.

    You: No intercourse, oral is fine, but lets stay away from penetration for now. Maybe another time, maybe not, we just have to feel our way through this.



    It can be as easy and laid back as that, just know what you want to say and work it into the conversation. No need to make a big show of it.

    We have almost always worked out any big issues BEFORE we even have met, but we still go over the ground rules before we play. For example, I might say to the guy "You have enough condoms? I would hate for things to bog down, because we don't play without them, if you needs some more let me know, I have plenty."

    Last note: as you make your rules think about WHY you want those rules. We made a book full before we started playing. It did not take long to get rid of most all of them because we realized we did not need them. SO think about why you want the rules. Try to keep them to a minimum, but enough so you feel comfortable. It is sex, if you have too may rules to remember, you end up thinking about rules and not having fun.
    +1

    Just to caveat off of what Coupleerotic wrote: keep the conversation light. After all, the four of you are being intimate with each other on a sexual level, so talking about what happened, what might happen next, and your “rules” shouldn’t be a problem. In our situation it took all of about five minutes to have the conversation with the other couple- and we agreed that we should have had it a lot sooner than we did.

    One possible reason for your wife’s apprehensions is that she might be rationalizing the situation AFTER the experience. Mrs. Will did that- in the heat of the moment she’d be willing to take on a football team and be completely uninhibited while doing so, but after the sex was done she’d rationalize between her “normal” behavior and her “wild side.” This gave her pause when we’d discuss the situation in a non-sexual environment. Like you, I was ready for everything, but I just sat back to let her figure out… almost to the point that I stopped talking about it during sex (she was actually the one who would bring it up nine times out of ten). Then one day, out of the blue (and nearly 10 years after our first threesome), she told me that she wanted to swing- and we had a great conversation about our limits and got involved in the LS together. Again, patience and conversation at HER speed will pay dividends, but don’t be surprised if it takes a long time to get there. Women are a tricky animal when it comes to processing feelings, desires, and emotions.

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