She's changing her mind and doesn't want to swing

[NandT]

We have been married 17 years; good, close relationship. We have done some "soft-swinging" in the past; very limited experience with a few different people, two with couples and one with another M. She is concerned about discretion, etc. She doesn't want it with people we know, or close by, doesn't want it with strangers. We met a great couple on line, and after 10 weeks of emails and phone calls she agreed to meet them and we had a nice picnic and talked for 6 hours. We all enjoyed each others company and we all hit it off, even she said they were attractive, intelligent and very much like us. They are beginners too. We agreed to meet again in a five weeks at our house, and to use our hot tub. We all agreed that we would keep it to light soft swinging. Now she says she doesn't want to; says that we're going too fast. She says she just wants to be "friends" with them, and maybe after a year we might go in the hot tub, and doesn't want a sexual relationship with them. I and the other couple were looking forward meeting again and using the hot tub; she says she feels like it's the three of us against her. She says if we do anything at all that she would be doing it just for me, and would be very passive about it. Do I just drop the whole thing and apologize to the other couple? Or how can I salvage this situation? It was very difficult to find this couple and we felt lucky that we all got along so well. I'm afraid if we let it go we'll never get this kind of opportuniy again.

[Alura]

from Oklahoma, NandT. We hope you'll drop by the Introductions Forum and tell us more about yourselves. We look forward to sharing more ideas with you and, hopefully, your wife.

My first suggestion would be to read your post to your wife. It would likely be the best way to express your disappointment and embarassment should you have to call the other couple to cancel.

On the other hand, assure her (and live by it) that she will not be required to do anything she doesn't want to do.

If she agrees to go ahead with the spa idea, be sure that you know exactly how far she may be willing to go. Would kissing be okay? ...a bit of touching? In the midst of the fun, how would she let you know she wanted to either go farther or to stop?

Alura

[NandT]

Originally Posted by Alura

from Oklahoma, NandT. We hope you'll drop by the Introductions Forum and tell us more about yourselves. We look forward to sharing more ideas with you and, hopefully, your wife.

My first suggestion would be to read your post to your wife. It would likely be the best way to express your disappointment and embarassment should you have to call the other couple to cancel.

On the other hand, assure her (and live by it) that she will not be required to do anything she doesn't want to do.

If she agrees to go ahead with the spa idea, be sure that you know exactly how far she may be willing to go. Would kissing be okay? ...a bit of touching? In the midst of the fun, how would she let you know she wanted to either go farther or to stop?

Originally Posted by Alura

Alura

One of the things that we have always talked about was that there was never any pressure to do anything that she didn't want. We have always discussed in detail what we would or would not do, and have never crossed any lines. The few times we did the hot tub we just had light touching, legs, breasts, rear, never any intercourse; once some oral sex that she enjoyed. But now it seems she doesn't want to do anything.

[Zoe&Wash]

Hello, NandT, and

Originally Posted by NandT

...Now she says she doesn't want to; says that we're going too fast. She says she just wants to be "friends" with them, and maybe after a year we might go in the hot tub, and doesn't want a sexual relationship with them....

...she says she feels like it's the three of us against her. She says if we do anything at all that she would be doing it just for me, and would be very passive about it....

I think Alura's given you some really good advice. Talk to your wife and have her read your post.

You really need to let your wife decide what's going to work best for her - especially if she's going to feel like it's all of you against her! That's one of the best ways of creating some serious tension in your relationship.

The woman has been your wife for 17 years. Is it worth trying to force something on her she really doesn't think she's ready for?

Your wife is obviously feeling a bit pressured right now. Maybe knowing that you're eager, but don't want to force her into doing anything she doesn't want to do may help her relax a bit more about the situation. She may yet change her mind if she's not feeling forced into a situation.

And make sure you let the other couple know exactly what's going on. They may be willing to meet with you folks again to just be friends, and may completely understand what you and your wife are going thru right now. Heck! they may even have been thru it themselves at one time. That alone could make your wife feel a little better about things.

If nothing happens in the future, you've still made some good friends. And if something does happen in the future, you'll all be glad you stayed friends with this couple!

Either way, give your wife a chance to change her mind back and forth a few times. She'll thank you for it, no matter how things turn out!

Z

[iapr]

I am afraid I respectfully disagree slightly with Alura and Zoe&walsh. I think you gave it a good honest try and it seemed like it was in a pretty reasonable manner and a good plan. The problem is your wife isn't going for it so it is pretty much case closed. Seriously, if after weeks of emails and phone calls and meeting them in person afterwhich she agreed they were nice and attractive and she still isn't interested then it just ain't happening.

You said she has had a couple experiences before so it is not like she is a total neophyte who knows nothing about the lifestyle. She knows enough to know she isn't interested and anything you do is going to come off as pressure. If you show her this post she is just going feel bad that she isn't living up to your wishes and hopes and it may even come off as a ploy to get her to give in.

Also she stated even if you did have an encounter with this couple that she would just sit there and take one for the team for you. Is THAT what you really want?

You made an honest, good faith effort and it was done in a reasonable and methodicall manner and she still says no. You made your case and now she has made hers. Let it go.

Go out and buy her a dozen roses, fix her a candlight dinner, giver her a good foot rub and back rub and then turn all the lights down and turn on some romantic music and slow dance with her in the living room and tell her how she is the most important person in the world to you and that as long as the two of you are happy together that is all that matters to you. Then don't bring it up again and find ways to enjoy monogamy.

As far as the other couple, take the attitude of who gives a rats ass. your marriage comes first and foremost. If you sweat and fuss over what their reaction will be your wife will think you are more concerned with them and their feelings than you are with hers. WRONG APPROACH! If they ask just tell them that you are not pursuing anymore meetings with anyone for an indefinate period and tell them that you did enjoy your time together and wish them well in their pursutes. We all get rejections and change of plans all the time, they'll survive.

[WesternSwing]

NandT, your wife doesn't want to do it and she just isn't being upfront and honest about it. Instead she's finding every way possible to sabotage it. In my opinion you need to be honest with her and call her out on it but with giving her a safe out, like by saying "honey, you really don't want to do this, do you? And it's okay if you don't, I understand, it's a huge deal."

It is only fair to you two and to the other couple.

Mr. WS

[iapr]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

NandT, your wife doesn't want to do it and she just isn't being upfront and honest about it. Instead she's finding every way possible to sabotage it. In my opinion you need to be honest with her and call her out on it but with giving her a safe out, like by saying "honey, you really don't want to do this, do you? And it's okay if you don't, I understand, it's a huge deal."

It is only fair to you two and to the other couple.

Mr. WS

Wow, we are reading two completely different things into this. I think she has totally laid it on the line and HAS been upfront and honest about it. I think if the OP "calls her out" on it she will call him out of the house.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by iapr

Wow, we are reading two completely different things into this. I think she has totally laid it on the line and HAS been upfront and honest about it. I think if the OP "calls her out" on it she will call him out of the house.

This is why I think this:

Originally Posted by NandT

She doesn't want it with people we know, or close by, doesn't want it with strangers.

Than who does she want it with? She's ruled-out everyone. "Can't be anyone we know." "Can't be a stranger." "Can't be anyone that lives close by." Who's left? Even Santa Claus isn't a possibility.

Originally Posted by NandT

We met a great couple on line, and after 10 weeks of emails and phone calls she agreed to meet them...

10 weeks just to meet? Even for newbies that are unsure about swinging taking ten weeks to meet someone is more than a bit excessive.

Originally Posted by NandT

We agreed to meet again in a five weeks at our house, and to use our hot tub.

FIVE MORE WEEKS AFTER TEN ALREADY?! Wow. We've gone nearly four months now and haven't even made it into a hot tub fully clothed together!

I really don't think she's on board with it and she's doing everything in her power to keep it from happening, hoping he'll just give-up rather than just telling him "I know this is your fantasy, but this is one I can't do."

Mr. WS

[FloridaFlirt]

In my opionion, original poster, your wife has made it clear....she is NOT ready to do this.

You gave it a good shot. Maybe one day, if she brings it up on her own, it might become a possibility....

Good luck to y'all...

[Tybee Swing]

Hi N and T,

I agree with Western Swing. I would have quoted the same points and said the same things.

Originally Posted by NandT

...even she said they were attractive, intelligent and very much like us. They are beginners too. We agreed to meet again in a five weeks at our house, and to use our hot tub. We all agreed that we would keep it to light soft swinging. Now she says she doesn't want to; says that we're going too fast.

I would ask her why she changed her mind. She was attracted and interested, and now suddenly it's going too fast. But to go any slower, she'd almost have to be moving backwards.

Originally Posted by NandT

....and maybe after a year we might go in the hot tub...

She says if we do anything at all that she would be doing it just for me, and would be very passive about it.....

Some women are extremely passive about giving a straight yes or no answer. I think that she may be saying no to swinging in an extremely passive way. WHY is she saying no? Only she can tell you that, and you'll have to pry it out of her. If you're really a close couple, it's important for her to talk to you, whether you two end up swinging, or not.

Originally Posted by NandT

Do I just drop the whole thing and apologize to the other couple?

Yes, your wife clearly isn't ready, for whatever reason. She's not even ready to get into a hottub with a couple, let alone have sex of some sort. With her not being ready and with her statement about how she'll only do it for you and just be passive, this is considered "drama" and undesirable/uncomfortable for other people to have to deal with.

Originally Posted by NandT

It was very difficult to find this couple and we felt lucky that we all got along so well. I'm afraid if we let it go we'll never get this kind of opportunity again.

By her actions, your wife doesn't seem to feel the same as you, about how lucky you are and what a wonderful opportunity it is. If she did, she wouldn't be backpeddling so fast. She wouldn't be so unwilling to participate.

I agree with everyone who suggested that you have her read this thread. Let her know that it's she who is important to you (far above the swinging), and that the two of you really must talk and be fully open with each other, regardless of swinging. Don't accept this passive way of wheedling out of situations with you. It's confusing and it's very unfair. When it comes to involving other people, she needs to "pee or get off the pot". It's not fair of her to lead you and other people on like that for weeks, and then play the "let's wait a year to get in the hottub" game. Best wishes to you.

[lovinher]

Holy smokes guys! Is this the same Swingers Board I've been reading for a year now?
Probably one of the most quoted pieces of advise said around here is "move at the pace of the slowest person". I don't think it matters how slow she is going. That is her comfort level and that should be end of that. If the OP's wife posted here saying pretty much the same thing but from her point of view, the majority of the advice given would be much different. Then, I think most would be advising; "don't let him talk you into anything you don't want to do" How many different ways can you say no? I don't think she is being unfair, dishonest or moving TOO slow. There is nothing wrong with talking to her about it. But talking about it is much different than trying to change her mind.

You say she feels like the three of you are against her. I'm curiuos about why she feels that way. IMO, this discussion (to proceed or not) should be between you and your wife only without any input from the other couple at all.

If I had to talk my wife into anything the reasons I'm here would mean much less to me.
Worthless actually.

[Alura]

Cyber Swing suggested:

Let her know that it's she who is important to you (far above the swinging), and that the two of you really must talk and be fully open with each other, regardless of swinging.

Lovinher wisely observed:

There is nothing wrong with talking to her about it. But talking about it is much different than trying to change her mind.

I think Cyber Swing plowed through to the most important concept of this issue. It is not about whether or not they can swing but whether or not they can talk out problems and solve them. Swinging is only one of many "challenges" couples deal with; each must be solved by gaining a full understanding of our partner's opinions while giving a full understanding of our own.

As Lovinher suggested, the purpose (for both of you) of the discussions should be to learn, not to convince.

To quit communicating on any subject at all without solving it to both partner's satisfaction would put more strain on my marriage than I'd care to deal with.

I stand with asking his wife to learn some things with him on this board, this thread to begin with.

Alura

[lovinher]

Originally Posted by alura

I stand with asking his wife to learn some things with him on this board, this thread to begin with.

I couldn't agree more on that.
I think anybody considering swinging, even if somewhat against it now, would do well to visit this site.
I read a lot about astrophysics. That doesn't make me a physicist.

IMO, he should just introduce her to this site and let her take it from there. Anything beyond that is an attempt to convince. Inevitably, they will talk about specific threads and you know how it goes from there . She has gone this far and I'd put money on it that after she reads here, understands things better and gets conditioned to the idea, she will be more open to it. After all, the seed has been planted.
Then again, she may not.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by lovinher

Holy smokes guys! Is this the same Swingers Board I've been reading for a year now?
Probably one of the most quoted pieces of advise said around here is "move at the pace of the slowest person". I don't think it matters how slow she is going. That is her comfort level and that should be end of that.

Hi lovinher, you didn't say who you were responding to, but if it was me, I wanted to make it more clear: my advice is not to push her up to the speed of the others. It's for her to say "NO" if she means no. Her actions are saying no (she won't play with people she knows, yet won't play with strangers , she wants to wait another year to get into the hottub). These tend to be signs of a woman just stringing people along because she doesn't know how to open her mouth and just say NO.

I'm respectful of moving at the pace of the slowest person, if they are moving very slowly in a direction they actually want to go. But I think we all know women who are so damned passive, that they won't say NO even if that's what they really want to say...so instead, they just string people along, hoping it will all just go away before they ever have to actually utter the words "no, I don't want this". My point is that this is drama and it's unfair to involve others in this game.

Hope this makes sense, and explains the difference between being patient and loving, vs. accepting flaky behavior and non-answers.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by NandT

I'm afraid if we let it go we'll never get this kind of opportunity again.

You will. There is an old saying in real estate that applies here too: "The deal of the century comes along about once a week."

Slow down, really talk about it together, listen to what others have said here about bringing her to the Board to do research together or even by herself if she wants. But if it is right the right couple will come along, whether it is this one or another one. Trust me.

Mr. WS