Are we swinging?

[snapps]

Personally speaking, and also speaking from experience.... It was NOT a good idea to allow your wife to do this with her Co-Worker!... She is with him 8+ hours a day; which is obviously more time than she even spends with you on any given work day.... Think about it!!! And try to think with your brains rather than your hormones! If you honestly think she wont be getting strong feelings for this guy, & Vice-Versa, after awhile (if she hasnt already)... then you are sadly mistaken... It may start off as just sex and fun, but trust me when i say that things can change quite easily and very quickly without you realizing. Especially in that kind of environment!... You can't control the Heart bro, and you honestly do not know what's really going on other than what she is telling you, especially because you dont even have any kind of relationship with the guy... Just like the poster before me stated, how do you know this man isnt thinking you are some kinda chump that is unable to sattisfy his wife, thus she is coming to him for sex and possibly a whole lot more!!!!... Also, seeing as your wife is seeking an "emotional" connection with this person, you really, really, REALLY, should rethink this because you are seriously playing with fire!!! Those "emotional feelings & connections" she is seeking should be reserved for you... her husband!!! Not some co-worker!!!............ What do you think would honestly happen right now if you were to ask her to cut things off with him???... It's gonna be kinda hard wont it???.... seeing as "THEY WORK TOGETHER!!!"............

Again, I'm speaking from experience, and I feel for you bro cause I recently went through almost the exact same thing and it nearly ruined my marriage, as a matter of fact, IT DID!!!...... but I am still doing my best to hold it all together and learn from that mistake and trying my best to move on............ If you guys plan to move on with this lifestyle, and somehow move past this incident.... I seriously hope that you never, ever, mess with or allow your spouse to talk to another co-worker again!...

Furthermore, if this was something you absoluetly had to allow or do... Then I just think it would've been a good idea to actually have met him before it all transpired... In person that is, if just to at least shake his hand and to let him indeed know that you are on board with the situation, and for him to know without a doubt that there is a line that cannot be crossed!... You should have at least done that before anything transpired between him and your wife at her job... This should go without saying man....

Good luck though... and I do hope it all works out for ya... But if it doesnt... you are gonna be the one kicking yourself, and be left with the short end of the stick bro... especially since you are here solely fantasizing about your wife, and not yourself; while allowing for this to happen and go as far as it did; nor are you even looking for any action of your own with another female... just like i once was...... again, good luck man...

[psycdr]

Originally Posted by snapps

She is with him 8+ hours a day; which is obviously more time than she even spends with you on any given work day.... Think about it!!! And try to think with your brains rather than your hormones!

First let me thank you for your response, I appreciate your concern, and for the record we know it may have not been the best choice, but we were not ready to try a club and we did not know where else to go. She did not want to try this with some stranger, she wanted to really get to know the person and get very comfortable with them and trust them. Furthermore there are a few things wrong with your statements/assumptions, first, my wife does not work full time, she works 20-25 hours a week, second, she does not work in the same department as he does, so their time at work is limited, third, I did think with my brain, my wife an I had long conversations about this before it even happened. Fourth, this is not my wifes career job, its just a job to have until my youngest starts school whereupon she will leave and go back to her full time job, so if she has to leave because it got weird, no big loss. In addition to this, I also use to work where she does (I helped her get the job) so I know how much she interacts with this person.

If you honestly think she wont be getting strong feelings for this guy, & Vice-Versa, after awhile (if she hasn't already)... then you are sadly mistaken... It may start off as just sex and fun, but trust me when i say that things can change quite easily and very quickly without you realizing. Especially in that kind of environment!... You can't control the Heart bro, and you honestly do not know what's really going on other than what she is telling you, especially because you don't even have any kind of relationship with the guy... Just like the poster before me stated, how do you know this man isn't thinking you are some kinda chump that is unable to satisfy his wife, thus she is coming to him for sex and possibly a whole lot more!!!!...

I must start my response to this with: I ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT, TRUST MY WIFE. Having said that though, you are absolutely correct, things can change very quickly, but my wife and I communicate regularly on this and we check in with each other on our feelings, specifically my feelings towards her and him as well as her feelings towards him and me. If it were to start to go down that road one of us would end it. If she ultimately leaves me, then there was something else wrong in our relationship that had nothing to do with our "swinging".

Also, seeing as your wife is seeking an "emotional" connection with this person, you really, really, REALLY, should rethink this because you are seriously playing with fire!!! Those "emotional feelings & connections" she is seeking should be reserved for you... her husband!!! Not some co-worker!!!............ What do you think would honestly happen right now if you were to ask her to cut things off with him???... It's gonna be kinda hard wont it???.... seeing as "THEY WORK TOGETHER!!!"............

When we talk about an "emotional" connection, we are not talking about holding hands or being in love, we are strictly talking about some type of connection that allows her to trust this person. She has not been with another sexual partner in over 18 years and this was a big step for her, so she needed to trust the person, and to earn that trust, you must have some type of "emotional" connection. I should also remind you that this all started with MY fantasy, I was the one that engaged her on this type of life, she did not come to me and say, "hey can I f*** this guy I work with".. It was not like that at all...

Again, I'm speaking from experience, and I feel for you bro cause I recently went through almost the exact same thing and it nearly ruined my marriage, as a matter of fact, IT DID!!!...... but I am still doing my best to hold it all together and learn from that mistake and trying my best to move on............ If you guys plan to move on with this lifestyle, and somehow move past this incident.... I seriously hope that you never, ever, mess with or allow your spouse to talk to another co-worker again!...

I am terribly sorry you are going through this, it must be very painful and I am sure when you read my post it brought back a lot of painful feelings. Before i was married I dated a girl that cheated on me and I remember what that is like, I can only assume yours is much worse. I hope you and your wife are receiving some type of counseling, it could really help with maintaining the marriage. My thoughts are with you and your wife...

Furthermore, if this was something you absolutely had to allow or do... Then I just think it would've been a good idea to actually have met him before it all transpired... In person that is, if just to at least shake his hand and to let him indeed know that you are on board with the situation, and for him to know without a doubt that there is a line that cannot be crossed!... You should have at least done that before anything transpired between him and your wife at her job... This should go without saying man....

In retrospect that would have been a good idea, and my wife and I actually recently spoke about it. We are considering doing just that.

Good luck though... and I do hope it all works out for ya... But if it doesnt... you are gonna be the one kicking yourself, and be left with the short end of the stick bro... especially since you are here solely fantasizing about your wife, and not yourself; while allowing for this to happen and go as far as it did; nor are you even looking for any action of your own with another female... just like i once was...... again, good luck man...

Thanks again for your feedback, this is exactly why I came here, to get honest feedback from individuals with experience.

[snapps]

Originally Posted by psycdr

Thanks again for your feedback, this is exactly why I came here, to get honest feedback from individuals with experience.

Well, I'm glad you appreciated my post, and yes, reading your post did bring back those memories and raised my eyebrows, and made me respond to your post... Again, I wish you the best of luck... Communication and Trust is definitely important, and it seems you and your wife have that, so I definitely envy you!... Good Luck Bro!

[bbarnsworth]

psycdr, please keep us posted on how this develops. I think I speak for many when I say we're interested in seeing how this progresses.

[psycdr]

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

psycdr, please keep us posted on how this develops. I think I speak for many when I say we're interested in seeing how this progresses.

I will do that. I will also ask the wifey to post how she is doing and her position on everything that has been posted.

We have a lot more questions; so it does not end here.

[snapps]

Originally Posted by psycdr

I will do that. I will also ask the wifey to post how she is doing and her position on everything that has been posted.

We have a lot more questions; so it does not end here.

Hi Psy,

Can you do me a favor and read this thread... from beginninng to end!.. In It's entirety... grab some popcorn while you are at it... because its a very long read... 30+ pages to be exact... but it shows you exactly how the best laid plans can go astray... and how easily and quickly the trust you have bestowed on your wife can be abused....

Emotional & logistical problems of an open marriage

Again, I just wanna wish you good luck bro; but, I still think you should put an end to that thing your wife has going on with her co-worker, that you agreed to, asap........

[Cajun2Step]

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

As for trusting your wife's perception of this fellow; that's great, and I see no reason to not trust her opinion of him. That said, if she continues to play with him I think it would be a very good idea for all three of you to meet together. Often. This guy is not a swinger. Keep that in mind. Single swinging males generally understand the 'rules' as it were before getting really involved in the lifestyle. A vanilla (non-swinger) guy may not. To him, he's getting some fun sex with a beautiful lady...not swinging. There's a massive difference there and that can lead to big problems down the road. Even though your wife has explained to him just what the score is, meeting him in person may help to make it crystal clear. I've seen reports of some single guys getting into a situation like that, thinking to themselves that the husband must be some idiotic fool who can't satisfy his wife's sexual needs, and starts working on some way to get her to leave him. Worst case scenario may be, but it happens. Too often.

Another aspect to this in regards to the future; As I mentioned earlier, my wife and I are looking for a long term play partner for her. This would be someone she can have sex with as often as she likes (and he's available), and we imagine often playing solo with him. It can be very difficult (we think especially for a woman, just observation with no sexism intended) to have sex with someone many, many times without beginning to develop some sense of love for that person. We have no problem with that. If she loves her play partner, that's fine. If he loves her, that's fine too. Where we draw the line is in any form of love that smacks of possessiveness, romantic intentions, desires for exclusivity, etc. A friend is a person whom you love. It's not the love of a romantic relationship, but it's love. You should probably discuss this with your wife, and see how you both feel about the natural development of feelings.

You need to read the above quote over and over.
We knew a couple in west central Louisiana (notice we said knew a couple, they are no longer together) who started a relationship like you have described that you gave your wife permission to have play in with a co-worker.

The co-worker playmate got possessive and the wife liked his attention and possessiveness. Result the original husband and wife are no longer a couple. The wife and her play-toyboy are now together.

Conclusion: There are some, in our opinions, serious ramifications that you may face in the future if you are not very careful.

Good Luck!!
Lache pa la patate!

[jovichick]

First let me introduce myself, I am psycdr's wife. I also would like to thank everyone for all of your feedback. It has helped us continue to ask questions and redefine our rules.

So as my husband has said before, the idea of us having an open marriage has been a topic of conversation for many years. When he first told me of his fantasy, I was initially shocked and excited at the same time. I knew if I was going to walk through that door it had to be just the right situation and person and then when the time was right I would know it. This is exactly what happened. I know that there are several of you who are concerned about my boy-toy being a co-worker. If I may clarify a few facts; first, we have worked together for almost 2 years, our work environment is such that our paths cross but were are not in a typical office space. There has been flirting back and forth, which I immediately disclosed to my husband. A conversation presented itself that allowed for me to disclose that my husband and I have an open marriage. This obviously intrigued the Boy-Toy and he stepped up the flirting and teasing. I have made it clear to him that we are not to share this with other co-workers, and if I ever feel that has broken that agreement, our arrangement would end. He has agreed and I have not felt that he has disclosed our relationship to others. I feel that this relationship will run its natural course and he will eventually want to move on to a more traditional relationship with someone else, or I will want to have a new adventure, and I am not sure if I want more than one boy-toy at any given time. We have no concerns about continuing to work together. We check in with each other regularly about where our feelings are at at. However, if there was uncomfortable tension I do have the flexibility to arrange my schedule to minimize our interaction. We have had to work collaboratively since we have been together, and yes there is some intensity, which I love. I feel that none of this has had a negative effect on my work. Again, I have been completely open with my husband about any exchanges between him and I. My boy-toy has asked what does my husband say after we have been together. He appears to be comfortable with the rules. I have also asked if he would be willing to meet my husband, he is obviously nervous about the idea, but said if that is what we wanted he would do it.

Before I decided to proceed with the him, my husband and I discussed the boundaries at length. For me I needed to know the person and have some sort of connection and attraction to him. I also like that I have the upper hand in this relationship, I can meet with him and not worry if he is going to call the next day, because I don't care, there is no baggage with this relationship, no expectations, just pure enjoyment. I made it clear to both males that I needed to take baby steps and sit with each encounter to evaluate my feelings before going further. The first encounter I decided to meet with my boy-toy and we spent most of it discussing the rules, and stressing to him that this was not about my husband not meeting my needs but it was a mutual decision to enhance our marriage. He asked lots of question and clarified the boundaries. I also made sure we were in a semi-private place which would not allow it to go too far physically. The first encounter was strictly kissing. When I returned home the first moment through the door was the most intense, I felt guilty smiling and liking the attention; my husbands reaction was one of kindness, patience and and a little bummed it did not go further. The Second time we met in the same place, and again we checked in with each other, and continued to discuss the rules of this arrangement. The second time was easier, and it did go further, but not all of the way, because, again I wanted to take gradual steps. Allowing another man after 15 years to touch me sexually is a big step and I wanted to be sure that I could handle it emotionally. Again, walking through the door and into our bedroom was intense and I was hoping my husband would be pleased with the result of the second encounter, and he was. The third time was the big one, and while in the moment it was great, my new partner was completely respectful, following all the rules, and asking throughout if he was crossing any boundaries. In addition he made no requests of me. He actually got really nervous and needed some extra time before he could perform, for some reason I was pleased with that because I felt he was being real. Afterwards. he was anxious to know what my husbands response would be. I will admit I love the intensity of the whole thing,

I have to says this whole experience has opened the lines of communication between my husband and I to a level I didn't know was possible. I love being able to share these experiences with him and explore new adventures to enhance our sex life. I am now very excitedly anxious for my husband to have his own encounter. I am also hoping that this will allow me to work through my own insecurities and eventually true acceptance of myself. I am also excited about the possibility of going to a swingers club with my husband and engaging in some voyeurism (which a personal fav of mine) and then having at it with him at the club.

Looking forward to your feedback.

JoviChick

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by jovichick

First let me introduce myself, I am psycdr's wife. I also would like to thank everyone for all of your feedback. It has helped us continue to ask questions and redefine our rules.

First, a great big :WELCOME: and we are VERY glad you're here! We're happy to help in any way we can.

Originally Posted by jovichick

I have also asked if he would be willing to meet my husband, he is obviously nervous about the idea, but said if that is what we wanted he would do it.

At this point, I wouldn't make it optional. It needs to happen for a variety of reasons.

Originally Posted by jovichick

... and stressing to him that this was not about my husband not meeting my needs but it was a mutual decision to enhance our marriage. He asked lots of question and clarified the boundaries.

Referring to earlier posts, explaining what the rules are and why you are doing this is very different than seeing you and your husband together in front of him, obviously happily in love with each other. Saying it to him is one thing. Him seeing it is quite another.

Originally Posted by jovichick

I was hoping my husband would be pleased with the result of the second encounter, and he was.

My wife and I have discussed the 'why's many times. We've both made it clear to each other that we are in swinging because we each, individually, want to be. It is also something that we do for each other, because both of us enjoy the other's desire to be and play in the lifestyle. But, the first is more important. I'm not detecting any sense that you're doing this for your husband, but that he does enjoy it so much is a benefit to you as well. That's good. Make sure it stays that way.

Originally Posted by jovichick

Afterwards. he was anxious to know what my husbands response would be.

And here's where I see newbie written all over him. Being a newbie isn't bad. I am concerned though that he doesn't fully understand what it means to be a swinger. As I noted earlier, there is a big difference between a non-swinger having fun with some guy's wife, and a swinger having consensual sex with a married woman. His understanding of himself in this regard may be very limited. I'm not saying don't play with him because of this. I'm saying there's a big learning curve in this for him too.

Originally Posted by jovichick

I have to says this whole experience has opened the lines of communication between my husband and I to a level I didn't know was possible. I love being able to share these experiences with him and explore new adventures to enhance our sex life.

This is a very common outcome of swinging experiences. It's the great taboo; so many marriages can't talk about sex in any depth, though they might have lots of sex in the marriage. They can't talk about fantasies, how great something feels or doesn't feel, etc. Swinging crashes through those barriers. You have to have great communication before swinging to have a decent chance of being successful swingers. But, once you start swinging the communication really opens up even more.

Originally Posted by jovichick

I am now very excitedly anxious for my husband to have his own encounter.

Don't count on it. Women in the lifestyle have a relatively easy time finding encounters, people to play with, etc. Your husband finding a single female to play with is unlikely. It is much more likely that most, if not all, of his encounters with other women will be in the context of a foursome.

That doesn't imply a problem. That's just the way the lifestyle is.

Personally, if the rest of my swinging experiences in my life all had to do with my wife getting to play and me not having any like encounters with women, I'd be ok with that. I thoroughly enjoy participating in MFMs and solo play, enjoying it vicariously through her pleasure. There are many men who deeply enjoy their wives being 'naughty', having a boy-toy on the side, etc. I'm one of them. I suspect your husband is too.

Originally Posted by jovichick

I am also hoping that this will allow me to work through my own insecurities and eventually true acceptance of myself.

My wife had some insecurity about her physical beauty before we started swinging. This is quite common. She wasn't insecure in any other respect. Once she saw how many men wanted to have sex with her, and how many men wanted to have sex with her again after she'd played with them, her insecurity vanished.

Originally Posted by jovichick

I am also excited about the possibility of going to a swingers club with my husband and engaging in some voyeurism (which a personal fav of mine) and then having at it with him at the club.

Sounds like good times

[jovichick]

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

First, a great big :WELCOME: and we are VERY glad you're here! We're happy to help in any way we can.



At this point, I wouldn't make it optional. It needs to happen for a variety of reasons.



Referring to earlier posts, explaining what the rules are and why you are doing this is very different than seeing you and your husband together in front of him, obviously happily in love with each other. Saying it to him is one thing. Him seeing it is quite another.

I want it to be natural and not forced, we fully anticipate this will happen, there will be opprotunities for my new friend to observe my husband and I. I also openly talk about my husband with him so he is not the person in the dark corner.



My wife and I have discussed the 'why's many times. We've both made it clear to each other that we are in swinging because we each, individually, want to be. It is also something that we do for each other, because both of us enjoy the other's desire to be and play in the lifestyle. But, the first is more important. I'm not detecting any sense that you're doing this for your husband, but that he does enjoy it so much is a benefit to you as well. That's good. Make sure it stays that way.




And here's where I see newbie written all over him. Being a newbie isn't bad. I am concerned though that he doesn't fully understand what it means to be a swinger. As I noted earlier, there is a big difference between a non-swinger having fun with some guy's wife, and a swinger having consensual sex with a married woman. His understanding of himself in this regard may be very limited. I'm not saying don't play with him because of this. I'm saying there's a big learning curve in this for him too.

I guess him being a newbie is ok, because we are newbies, and I very much like the natural progression of things. it is a turn on for me to know I have the upper hand and control what happens. He is a very level headed individual and easy to talk to about this process. He has been doing his own research and learning about the lifestyle. I did not chose him lightly, I happened to have a background in social work and psychology, as does he. We have a better understanding of human behavior and what makes people tick. I continue to take small steps evaluating and analyzing every encounter, with myself, my husband and him. I am not so nieve to think that there could not be negative ramification of engaging with a single male. But again I feel comfortable with the current situation.



This is a very common outcome of swinging experiences. It's the great taboo; so many marriages can't talk about sex in any depth, though they might have lots of sex in the marriage. They can't talk about fantasies, how great something feels or doesn't feel, etc. Swinging crashes through those barriers. You have to have great communication before swinging to have a decent chance of being successful swingers. But, once you start swinging the communication really opens up even more.

This is my favorite part. Not only do I feel closer to my husband, but I actually feel like we are friends, and been able to tap into something so unique and amazing.


Don't count on it. Women in the lifestyle have a relatively easy time finding encounters, people to play with, etc. Your husband finding a single female to play with is unlikely. It is much more likely that most, if not all, of his encounters with other women will be in the context of a foursome.

That doesn't imply a problem. That's just the way the lifestyle is.

It does not have to be a single female. We are going to explore the possibilty of engaging a couple and seeing where that goes. I just want him to experience a new sexual partner.

Personally, if the rest of my swinging experiences in my life all had to do with my wife getting to play and me not having any like encounters with women, I'd be ok with that. I thoroughly enjoy participating in MFMs and solo play, enjoying it vicariously through her pleasure. There are many men who deeply enjoy their wives being 'naughty', having a boy-toy on the side, etc. I'm one of them. I suspect your husband is too.

This is my husband as well. There is something about knowing someone else has been there, it makes me want him more, sort of a competition thing. Survival of the fittest.



My wife had some insecurity about her physical beauty before we started swinging. This is quite common. She wasn't insecure in any other respect. Once she saw how many men wanted to have sex with her, and how many men wanted to have sex with her again after she'd played with them, her insecurity vanished.

I have come a long way and I am enjoying feeling more confident.

Sounds like good times

This is experience has been so liberating and has allowed me to work through some issue, enjoy some great sex, and feel more connected to my husband. I am excited to see what the furture holds.

[psycdr]

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

F
Don't count on it. Women in the lifestyle have a relatively easy time finding encounters, people to play with, etc. Your husband finding a single female to play with is unlikely. It is much more likely that most, if not all, of his encounters with other women will be in the context of a foursome.

That doesn't imply a problem. That's just the way the lifestyle is.

Personally, if the rest of my swinging experiences in my life all had to do with my wife getting to play and me not having any like encounters with women, I'd be ok with that. I thoroughly enjoy participating in MFMs and solo play, enjoying it vicariously through her pleasure. There are many men who deeply enjoy their wives being 'naughty', having a boy-toy on the side, etc. I'm one of them. I suspect your husband is too.

bbarnsworth,

Thank you very much for your insight and advise. We are taking it very seriously. I do have a few related questions and since what I am looking for seems to be similar to what your looking for maybe you can answer our question; I am going to assume you go to swinging clubs, when involved in a "foursome" is there ever a time that its not a foursome, but a twosome, essentially your wife goes off with the male, but you do not go off with the female? In order to meet my wifes fantasy, would it be possible for us to go to a club and I end up "playing" with a female while my wife does not participate in any way shape or form? We thought of going to a club or even posting on a swingers board, but we were not sure if etiquette would not allow that.

I hope that makes sense

Regards

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by psycdr

I am going to assume you go to swinging clubs, when involved in a "foursome" is there ever a time that its not a foursome, but a twosome, essentially your wife goes off with the male, but you do not go off with the female? In order to meet my wifes fantasy, would it be possible for us to go to a club and I end up "playing" with a female while my wife does not participate in any way shape or form? We thought of going to a club or even posting on a swingers board, but we were not sure if etiquette would not allow that.

My wife and I have been to three swinging clubs, multiple times with two of them. We're hoping to make the third a multiple time, but logistics are in the way (>1500 miles). Anyway...

All sorts of combinations happen at swing clubs. It's more common for two couples to go off together than for one couple to grab the male or female of another couple and head off, but that does happen too. I've not personally seen this though. Sometimes a male A/female B pair can go off to play separately while the other male B/female A pair don't play together. I would venture to guess that scenario is more common than an MFM leaving the F behind, or FMF leaving the M behind.

We once came close to setting up a play date with a couple where the wife of the other couple and I were just going to be spectators while my wife and her husband had fun. Didn't work out, but it would have been fine with all of us.

The choices are yours; you won't be violating any etiquette in trying for such pairings. It's up to you and your wife. If you find willing partners, then great. If not, then great too. You should never go to a swing club expecting you're going to have sex with somebody new. Instead, go with the hope of having a good time, and that's it. Swing clubs can be electric (except Amish ones...ha! couldn't resist ) in their atmosphere. It can be fun just to watch all that goes on when there's a big crowd.

Sidebar; the first time I went to a swing club I knew quite a bit, on paper, about swinging. But, I had an experience which dramatically qualified what swinging is all about. Shortly after we arrived, I witnessed an attractive woman go up to a stripper pole and do a wonderful strip dance. Run of the mill stuff you would see at a strip club you might say. But, this was radically different. She wasn't being paid to do it. She was doing it for the pure enjoyment of doing it.

There's an excellent article on here somewhere (somebody help!) covering going to a swing club the first time, what to expect, etc. Great article. I can't find it right now though.

[fun4Ds]

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

There's an excellent article on here somewhere (somebody help!) covering going to a swing club the first time, what to expect, etc. Great article. I can't find it right now though.

Is this the thread you are referring to ?

There are many good posts in the Swinging at Home/Clubs/Parties/Resorts - The Swingers Board forum.

But I agree with bbarbsworth, there are many possible outcomes at any clubs.

Are you looking into the possibility that finding you a female swing partner would be simplified at a club ?

[fun4Ds]

Thank you for joining us here on the Swingers Board, jovichick

I find your thoughts and communication skills, fasinating....Actually, that goes toward both of you

fun4ds

[psycdr]

Originally Posted by fun4Ds

Are you looking into the possibility that finding you a female swing partner would be simplified at a club ?

Yes that was my thinking.. Is there a chance that this might occur?