What is a reasonable "expectation?"

[Newpants]

I was chatting online recently with another newbie couple and one of their (or rather, HER) biggest fears was that the male of another couple would have "expectations" of her. I understand this concern and we all have it to one degree or another but if there is no "expectation" of some kind of sexuality why be on a swinger site looking to meet up with swingers right?

It was an interesting discussion and her issue is that she doesn't find many men attractive and she doesn't want to be pressured and she doesn't want anyone to have any expectations or assumptions up front and wants to take it slow - Quote: "untill I can decide if I can look past the pot bellys and fat rolls or not." UnQuote:

My position was she shouldn't be going out with people with pot bellys and fat rolls in the first place if those things are a turn off to her.

But anyway that got me thinking about a bigger picture. None of us want anyone to have unrealistic expectations and noone wants to be pressured into doing something they do not want. But what is a reasonable expectation to have when you are meeting someone for the first time, or the second or third or 52nd for that matter?

I understand when people say they want to do things other than just say hello and get naked but once two couples have talked and discussed preferences and interests and have exchanged pictures and talked about what they would like to accomplish, what is a reasonable "expectation" to have going into a meeting?


So what are reasonable expectations provided everyone has exchanged pictures (or seen each other in the flesh at a club or party) and have openly discussed their play preferences and boundries etc and all parties have aggreed to meet?

NOTE: this is all assuming that everyone is acting in good faith and there has been no deception or false representations etc.

[Newpants]

The reason this had me scratching my head a little is I guess I would assume that if someone did not find me at least somewhat doable that they would reject us from the git-go and not meet with us hoping to "get over" what was turning them off.

IMHO I always thought that if someone has seen your pictures and knows what your play preferences and interests are and they agree to meet with you, that it would be a reasonable expectation to think that there was at least a possibility of some kind of sexual opportunity.

But perhaps I am wrong (wouldn't be the first or last time). What are your thoughts? How far do people need to take the concept of "no expectations?"

Is there a certain amount of expectation or assumption that IS reasonable and acceptable?

[LagniappeDC]

Speaking as the male half, and relating similar thoughts that I've gotten from other friends we've met, I can say that I never go into any situation with any expectations (except that I'll probably have great sex with my wife that night!).

Yes, you can read profiles, trade pictures, chat online or on the phone -- but until you actually meet in person you never really "know" whether you will actually click with the other couple. This can be for any number of reasons, and it happens with "beautiful" couples who turn you off because they have no personality, or "unattractive" couples who you end up having a blast with because you just "click."

Heck, you may even click but someone may have just had a bad night for whatever reason and it just doesn't happen (at least that night). There have been times when we've been out with couples that we've played with before and nothing has happened.

Certainly you go in hoping for the best, that you'll have a good mental connection, that all four of us click, that you find them physically attractive. You do all of the online searching and chatting and picture exchanges to help increase those odds. That is totally fair in my humble opinion.

Honestly, we've found those men or couples with expectations to be turn offs. We call them the "eager beavers" and just find them annoying.

Now every couple and even certain situations will be different, but as for us, we go in as a couple and just hope for a fun evening -- even if that means we only play together.

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by LagniappeDC

Speaking as the male half, and relating similar thoughts that I've gotten from other friends we've met, I can say that I never go into any situation with any expectations (except that I'll probably have great sex with my wife that night!).

Yes, you can read profiles, trade pictures, chat online or on the phone -- but until you actually meet in person you never really "know" whether you will actually click with the other couple. This can be for any number of reasons, and it happens with "beautiful" couples who turn you off because they have no personality, or "unattractive" couples who you end up having a blast with because you just "click."

Heck, you may even click but someone may have just had a bad night for whatever reason and it just doesn't happen (at least that night). There have been times when we've been out with couples that we've played with before and nothing has happened.

Certainly you go in hoping for the best, that you'll have a good mental connection, that all four of us click, that you find them physically attractive. You do all of the online searching and chatting and picture exchanges to help increase those odds. That is totally fair in my humble opinion.

Honestly, we've found those men or couples with expectations to be turn offs. We call them the "eager beavers" and just find them annoying.

Now every couple and even certain situations will be different, but as for us, we go in as a couple and just hope for a fun evening -- even if that means we only play together.

Right, I get that. But what I am saying is once you have seen the pictures and had the discussions and got to the point of meeting in person, don't you think it is a reasonable expectation that there is at least a reasonable POTENTIAL for some kind of sexual experience at some point???

I guess I have an expectation that if I am too fat/skinny/bald/hairy o r that our play preferences are too different that I will be rejected BEFORE a meeting is scheduled. I realize I can always say the wrong thing or blunder the meeting in a million different ways once we are face to face but do you truly go into a meeting with absolutely NO expectations??

If you jumped through all of someone's hoops and sent pictures and spent time and energy discussing preferences and interests etc and got a babysitter and worked out a time that all 4 people could get together and at the end of the evening you made an offer and they rejected it and stated that they knew they weren't going to be attracted to you from the git-go, wouldn't you be a little miffed??

I realize you may not "know" that you WILL be interested untill you are face to face. But people often "know" that they WILL NOT be interested right from the start.

I also know that sometimes things take a little time to develop the comfort and trust to move forward and actually get to the bedroom.

My question is in how do you define when it is time to have some reasonable expectations and not just be spinning your wheels.

[Newpants]

Here's another real-life example. We knew two couples that were both very attractive and pleasant and both freely stated a mutual attraction for each other. They "dated" almost weekly for months and months and all that time they declared "no expectations" as their battle cry.

At what point does someone have the right to say, "enough already, let's have some expectations and quit sitting on our hands!"?

[realcplub2]

Two facts remain, If you worry about living up to another persons expectations BEFORE you bother learning, you will worry yourself to death.. Not rushing is fine, but use that time to flirt, and learn..

The other is, perfection is in the eye of the beholder.. Her statement about Male Appearances and Body Types.. its her choice, and honestly her loss..

Ron Jeremy is well known for his "super powers" in bed.. But lets be honest.. perfection? Svelt? Hell no

Never fall into the trap of trying to figure out someone elses psychosis

[slevin]

Originally Posted by Newpants

Here's another real-life example. We knew two couples that were both very attractive and pleasant and both freely stated a mutual attraction for each other. They "dated" almost weekly for months and months and all that time they declared "no expectations" as their battle cry.

At what point does someone have the right to say, "enough already, let's have some expectations and quit sitting on our hands!"?

That sounds more like no one having the guts to step up and say "Why don't we all go back to the hotel and have some fun".

If you say that, everyone agrees and you go back to the hotel then I have some expectations:

- I expect that if we all agree to get naked and have some fun that it is ok for me to pursue what we've all agreed to be the boundaries.
- I expect that it is ok for anyone to change their mind in the moment

Other than that, it is definitely best to not have any expectations. Which is not the same as not pursuing what we're all there for. It should always be ok to suggest moving forward; just like it should always be ok for someone else to say no. I don't expect that after a few drinks we'll get naked and I don't think there is a presumption that it's a possibility. It's too hard to tell if you'll click with someone until you meet them. After you have met, flirted and decided you want to move forward you find out if they want to move forward as well.

[LagniappeDC]

I agree with Slevin's take on your example. Making the move from the talking and flirting and dancing to getting naked can be incredibly hard for some couples - us included. But that is a topic in and of itself.

As to your question, let me put it a different way. I would say that there is a different between "expectation" and "possibilities." Yes, if you agree to meet a couple, it should be generally accepted why everyone is there - to play. If that isn't accepted then something is wrong and that is when drama comes into play (yes, another topic!).

So, in that sense, we go into a date or a club with an understanding between us (my wife and I) about what is possible that night as we may have our own thoughts about how far we want to take things (ie, just flirting and kissing or actually playing).

That is different than expecting something will actually happen.

Indeed, I posted about a date we had with another couple. It was our third date with this one particular couple. The first night went very well and we ended up making out with them. Second date was a follow up dinner to talk more, and as it turned out a couple of us were under the weather so we called it an early night. We went into this night pretty much expecting that we would play. Long story short, absolutely nothing. We took step back to analyze them and the situation and decided they weren't the right fit for us.

So, to your question as I understand it, yes, it's fair to go in thinking what is possible, but when you go in expecting something, you set yourself up for disappointment.

[LFM2]

Originally Posted by LagniappeDC

<snip> I never go into any situation with any expectations (except that I'll probably have great sex with my wife that night!).

Yes, you can read profiles, trade pictures, chat online or on the phone -- but until you actually meet in person you never really "know" whether you will actually click with the other couple.

Heck, you may even click but someone may have just had a bad night for whatever reason and it just doesn't happen (at least that night). There have been times when we've been out with couples that we've played with before and nothing has happened.

Certainly you go in hoping for the best, that you'll have a good mental connection, that all four of us click, that you find them physically attractive. You do all of the online searching and chatting and picture exchanges to help increase those odds. That is totally fair in my humble opinion.

Honestly, we've found those men or couples with expectations to be turn offs. We call them the "eager beavers" and just find them annoying.

Now every couple and even certain situations will be different, but as for us, we go in as a couple and just hope for a fun evening -- even if that means we only play together.

We've gone out and hoping for something to happen. Our expectations don't equal sex and fun. We have no expectations because something will eventually prevent something from happening. Why not just go and have fun without expecting anything in return except a good time?

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by Newpants

I was chatting online recently with another newbie couple and one of their (or rather, HER) biggest fears was that the male of another couple would have "expectations" of her. I understand this concern and we all have it to one degree or another but if there is no "expectation" of some kind of sexuality why be on a swinger site looking to meet up with swingers right?

It was an interesting discussion and her issue is that she doesn't find many men attractive and she doesn't want to be pressured and she doesn't want anyone to have any expectations or assumptions up front and wants to take it slow - Quote: "untill I can decide if I can look past the pot bellys and fat rolls or not." UnQuote:

My position was she shouldn't be going out with people with pot bellys and fat rolls in the first place if those things are a turn off to her.

In this case I would wonder, like you, why she is doing that. Is her husband pressuring her because he likes the other wife? Has she not told him what kind of looks are not okay with her? Does he expect her to take one for the team? If so, her not speaking up and being clear about what she wants and doesn't want, at least with him, is a potential problem.

Originally Posted by Newpants

But anyway that got me thinking about a bigger picture. None of us want anyone to have unrealistic expectations and noone wants to be pressured into doing something they do not want. But what is a reasonable expectation to have when you are meeting someone for the first time, or the second or third or 52nd for that matter?

I understand when people say they want to do things other than just say hello and get naked but once two couples have talked and discussed preferences and interests and have exchanged pictures and talked about what they would like to accomplish, what is a reasonable "expectation" to have going into a meeting?


So what are reasonable expectations provided everyone has exchanged pictures (or seen each other in the flesh at a club or party) and have openly discussed their play preferences and boundries etc and all parties have aggreed to meet?

NOTE: this is all assuming that everyone is acting in good faith and there has been no deception or false representations etc.

There are several possibilities to what's going on when a couple or woman says this. I'll try to think of a few.

Sometimes "no expectations" simply means they think they might be attracted to you and want to have sex, but know that sometimes it doesn't work out that way. They don't want someone to go in thinking it's a sure thing and then get irritated when it doesn't happen. This is usually my position when going on a date. With a new couple, there's at least a hope that all parties will feel attracted. This should be based on pictures (in my opinion, not everyone will agree) or previous meetings in person. With a couple we've been seeing already, there's at least a hope that everyone will want to have sex. Sometimes at least one of the four will not want to for some reason.

Sometimes, "no expectations" is code for when another couple is scared and may think they want to swing, but really don't want to or can't overcome whatever is stopping them. Perhaps the man and the woman are not really on the same page, and one is hoping the other will decide they want to swing. Or they may want to think they are swingers, or to feel desired, or to have sexy titillating times but just don't want to actually swing. They may not have admitted this to themselves.

Sometimes "no expectations" is the line of people who like for things to "just happen". There are lots of these people. I have never understood this. This may be a silly thing to say but I just don't think the situations that lend themselves to swinging "just happen", at least not with people you meet on a swinger's site (they may "just happen" between two vanilla couples who hang out a lot anyway). They take planning. Location, absence of children, condoms, no one on their period, everyone relaxed and in the mood.

There's another breed of swinger who don't seem to care if sex actually happens, but are okay if it does. They say "no expectations" and may not go out of their way to create the right mood or situation, but are fine if someone else does.

Yes, reasonable expectations that something will happen, but no expectation that some specific act will take place.

Example:

I have a reasonable expectation of being inside her pussy, but I have no expectation of doing her doggy while she does oral on my spouse.


So it's just breaking the ice, getting the ball rolling, kick-starting things, etc. which holds up my reasonable expectations from being met.

[padoc]

Simply put, we have found that swinging isn't about someone else's "expectations". Instead, it is about what we expect or what we want to share. if we meet a couple and can't find common ground or achieve a comfort level, we just don't give a damn about their expectations. We're outta there!