"Sexually aggressive" vs "Sexually expressive"

[Mr.GeekChic]

In my past (pre-married, vanilla), I've struggled with being too much of a sexually inert, passive guy. I thought that being respectful of women meant that you didn't display your sexual interest in them. This, of course, had the side effect of making them uninterested in me because they saw me as asexual.

Now that my wife and I are venturing out into the lifestyle, I'm working on purging myself of all the baggage that I've been carrying around. I don't want to make the same mistakes in the swinging world that I made the first time around in the vanilla world.

It seems to me that there's a difference in someone who's sexually aggressive and one who's sexually expressive. I want to show off my sexual side, not act like a tool. So what are your opinions on the difference? Obviously, there are common sense things like "No means no", "Respect another couple's boundaries", "Don't be a stalker", etc, but I'm looking for something deeper than that.

Women, when you're looking for a swinging playmate, what are the traits you're looking for? What draws you in? What makes you think "I want to hook up with this guy!" ? What kinds of behaviors turn you on and turn you off? What can a guy do to let you know he's interested in you?

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by Mr.GeekChic

Women, when you're looking for a swinging playmate, what are the traits you're looking for? What draws you in? What makes you think "I want to hook up with this guy!" ? What kinds of behaviors turn you on and turn you off? What can a guy do to let you know he's interested in you?

Something I have to say from the start:

If I immediately like a guy, he can be shy, expressive, or aggressive - it doesn't matter - because I like him I am open to anything he says or does.

If I immediately don't like a guy, he can be shy, expressive, or aggressive - it doesn't matter - because I don't like him I won't be open to anything he says or does.

This may sound confusing, and it is to a degree, but I'm hoping other women know what I'm saying. I don't know that I've discussed this before, but with me, the same 'line' can come out of two different guys and with one guy - the guy I like - I think he is the funniest, smartest, sexiest guy, but when it's said by the guy - who I don't like - I think he's trite, dull, and unsexy.

You got to Be, Do, and Say what feels natural for you. Some women will think you're the greastest, others won't.

And how do I "immediately" like or not like a guy?

Beats me how it works.

LM

[Mr.GeekChic]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

And how do I "immediately" like or not like a guy?

Beats me how it works.

LM

That was my followup question for you when I was reading your post.

You got to Be, Do, and Say what feels natural for you. Some women will think you're the greastest, others won't.

This is similar to what you said in my "Confidence" thread, and I completely agree. I wouldn't want to try to be anything or anyone that I'm not, nor I am looking for people to tell me how to think or act. I'm just looking to hear about other people's ideas on the topic.

And the fact that you are responding to something in a guy shows that there's something there to provoke that response in the first place. It may just be physical, but I bet it's not.

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

If I immediately like a guy, he can be shy, expressive, or aggressive - it doesn't matter - because I like him I am open to anything he says or does.

If I immediately don't like a guy, he can be shy, expressive, or aggressive - it doesn't matter - because I don't like him I won't be open to anything he says or does.

with me, the same 'line' can come out of two different guys and with one guy - the guy I like - I think he is the funniest, smartest, sexiest guy, but when it's said by the guy - who I don't like - I think he's trite, dull, and unsexy.

You got to Be, Do, and Say what feels natural for you. Some women will think you're the greastest, others won't.

And how do I "immediately" like or not like a guy?

Beats me how it works.

LM

I'm not another woman but agree with what Likeminds321 is saying and it is a great point to make.

Since your question is 'how do I be expressive without being a tool?' as opposed to "how do I pick up chicks?" I'll offer this.
My humble opinion on what I think is key in being expressive but not being a tool or jerk is how well you can read the other person and determining whether they are accepting your approach or not.

As Likeminds said, if that person is into you, you can talk about the weather and they will think you are cute and sexy but to someone that is not into you they won't be impressed and if you keep at it they will think you are "aggressive" and a tool no matter what you are saying.

So the key IMHO is being able to tell the difference between someone that is appreciating your attentions vs someone who isn't.

Kind of like the old Kenny Rogers song, "you got to know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold 'em. Know when to walk away and know when to run."

I had a few old buddies from my youth that were true pick-up artists. They weren't GQ models, professional athletes or movie stars but what they did have was a keen sense of picking up on people's signs. They may go to a party or bar and approach a couple dozen different women but only move in on the one that was giving off the possitive feedback signs.

That process may work well in a singles environment but in a swinging venue it gets a whole lot more complicated when you have to factor in the attraction and chemistry between the other partners as well.

[slevin]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

If I immediately like a guy, he can be shy, expressive, or aggressive - it doesn't matter - because I like him I am open to anything he says or does.

If I immediately don't like a guy, he can be shy, expressive, or aggressive - it doesn't matter - because I don't like him I won't be open to anything he says or does.

Absolutely; sometimes there is indifference as well. Which turns into one or the other after a longer period of time.

My tactic here is to do two things:

1. Project my sexual intent with my body language, tone of voice and eye contact. Look at her as if she was your lover. Think about what it would be like if she was {insert sexual act you enjoy}

2. Touch her. I don't mean overtly maul her, but I start touching her in innocent places while we're talking. Touching her arm, the small of her back, her leg. This is more to gauge her interest than anything else, though establishing some touching helps in the future when everyone is naked as well I think.

If she reciprocates my touching, then I know she's probably interested in me. If she allows my touch, but doesn't do anything then it's ambiguous. If she avoids it, stops me, mentions it etc., then there is a good chance that she's not interested in me. It's not a magic wand, but it's usually a good approximation. The tricky part here is doing this while engaging your wife and the other guy as well. You don't want to disrespect him, or make your wife feel uncomfortable.

[Mr.GeekChic]

Originally Posted by Newpants

I'm not another woman but agree with what Likeminds321 is saying and it is a great point to make.

Since your question is 'how do I be expressive without being a tool?' as opposed to "how do I pick up chicks?"

The question I was really attempting to ask was more along the lines of "In your opinion, what kinds of behaviors fall into the lines of being a tool and what kinds of behaviors fall into the lines of being a sexually expressive and responsive male?" It was definitely not intended to be "how do I pick up chicks?" nor even "what kind of behavior will increase my likelihood of attracting women?"

I was actually just looking to open up a discussion rather than asking for advice on how to act. One person's aggressive is going to be another person's expressive, and I understand that there are a lot of factors that go into that, the foremost of which is just the woman's feel for the guy in question. I don't want to be a tool, but honestly couldn't even if I tried... That's not who I am, and I'm not going to change that.

I see now how my initial post came across like I was looking for a do's/don't do's checklist. Again, that was not my intention, and that would be impossible to create anyway because it is so subjective. I didn't intend for this to be about me...

I'll offer this.
My humble opinion on what I think is key in being expressive but not being a tool or jerk is how well you can read the other person and determining whether they are accepting your approach or not.

As Likeminds said, if that person is into you, you can talk about the weather and they will think you are cute and sexy but to someone that is not into you they won't be impressed and if you keep at it they will think you are "aggressive" and a tool no matter what you are saying.

So the key IMHO is being able to tell the difference between someone that is appreciating your attentions vs someone who isn't.

Since I never was really in the dating pool, this is something that I'm working on developing now, and based on my (limited) experience I definitely see what you're talking about.

[realcplub2]

I see now how my initial post came across like I was looking for a do's/don't do's checklist. Again, that was not my intention, and that would be impossible to create anyway because it is so subjective. I didn't intend for this to be about me...

If this were a poll of 100 women within the lifestyle, you may come across some answers the same, but over all, the answers are going to be as varied as the people questioned. Just as LIKEMINDS said.

One persons Confidence, can be mis construde as Vanity, or worse.

The best advice is, be yourself. Thats all we really can do, in the end, If the prospective playmates find the erotic its a plus..

If they don't, like the deli counter...

NEXT!

Its your job not to get hung up in someone elses idea of perfection.. Just offer them the best OF you, you have to offer.

[Mr.GeekChic]

Originally Posted by realcplub2

If this were a poll of 100 women within the lifestyle, you may come across some answers the same, but over all, the answers are going to be as varied as the people questioned. Just as LIKEMINDS said.

One persons Confidence, can be mis construde as Vanity, or worse.

The best advice is, be yourself. Thats all we really can do, in the end, If the prospective playmates find the erotic its a plus..

If they don't, like the deli counter...

NEXT!

Its your job not to get hung up in someone elses idea of perfection.. Just offer them the best OF you, you have to offer.

Yes, that's what I'm doing. All I have to offer is myself, and they'll either be interested or not.

[Mr.GeekChic]

Memo to self:

Stop looking for objective answers to subjective questions. You know better than that!

[Mr.GeekChic]

Thanks for the replies, everyone! I just wanted to say that I re-read your posts and the lightbulb finally came on.

When I created the thread, my mode of thought was that this would be subjective to the person being approached. That different people would have different ideas about what behavior is acceptable and what crosses a line. I was thrown off by your replies because I was approaching them from that standpoint. However, I now see what you were all trying to say, and I realized the main focus is on the person doing the approaching.

Like Likeminds originally said, it's all about how open she is to that person. So it's not so much a behavior itself that would be unacceptable, it's all about being able to tell if they're receptive to it.

Thanks again,

--Mr.Geekchic, whose brain grows new wrinkles everytime he visits this site

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by slevin

My tactic here is to do two things:

1. Project my sexual intent with my body language, tone of voice and eye contact. Look at her as if she was your lover. Think about what it would be like if she was {insert sexual act you enjoy}

2. Touch her. I don't mean overtly maul her, but I start touching her in innocent places while we're talking. Touching her arm, the small of her back, her leg. This is more to gauge her interest than anything else, though establishing some touching helps in the future when everyone is naked as well I think.

If she reciprocates my touching, then I know she's probably interested in me. If she allows my touch, but doesn't do anything then it's ambiguous. If she avoids it, stops me, mentions it etc., then there is a good chance that she's not interested in me. It's not a magic wand, but it's usually a good approximation. The tricky part here is doing this while engaging your wife and the other guy as well. You don't want to disrespect him, or make your wife feel uncomfortable.

Slevin is spot on here. Follow what he says.

The men that have impressed me most (if I take an instant liking to them) are those who give me great eye contact, a smile, and hold their attention on me to see how I respond. In that moment you can tell if you have a chance with a woman. Be a good observer and test the water by doing/saying things that become more intimate (the touching slevin talked about). If the woman accepts what you give her and returns it, something wonderful can result.

LM

[JustAskJulie]

I have to ditto LikeMinds as well. I don't know what the X Factor is that makes me like a guy or not. But, there are lots of guys who do go from "in the zone" to "tool" once I start talking to them or spend more time with them... and typically the factor that pushes them is being too aggressive.

I think someone above mentioned body language and that is part of it. Read some books (or websites) on the subject and study it. Another big part of it is the attitude. If you come off with an attitude (which I can't see you doing) that you are automatically "IN", it is a turn off for me. If I can't walk by you without you grabbing me every 10 seconds, it will turn me off as well. I don't do needy or clingy.

[Mr.GeekChic]

Thanks again, JustAskJulie and LikeMinds321!

I feel like things are really starting to click now in my head. My wife and I were just talking last night about how there are so many things that are new to me because I never really dated before I got together with her. I've just got that much more to learn!

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

If you come off with an attitude (which I can't see you doing) that you are automatically "IN", it is a turn off for me.

I've got less than 30 posts and it sounds like you've already got a handle on what I'm like... Yeah, that kind of an attitude's definitely not me. I feel so much better about myself now, and I know that I am an attractive guy with great things about me that women will like, but I'm never going to see myself as automatically "IN".