The real reason the other couple doesn't want to play again

[The Fuse]

I started to post this in the "Do you play with single males?" thread, and then realized it was about something else.

There's plenty of discussion on this board about whether to tell another couple the reason why you don't want to play with them again. Most people come down on the side of no, in most cases it's not something they do. However, this thread is about the REAL reason. We've found out later at least twice that the real reason we aren't playing again with a couple we enjoyed is not the reason we assumed, or even the reason they told us. In both cases, the real reason was enlightening and provided opportunities for growth. This post is about one of those.

I'm not asking for advice in this thread. I am curious whether others have similar stories to share.

We have an ongoing thing right now with a single male. He was half of a couple that we liked very much. We were only with them once, and then had a non-sexual friendship with them for a year, until their relationship hit the rocks. We are really bummed that they broke up. She is living a long way away now, so we don't see her, and we're not in touch. But we still both enjoy hanging out with him a lot. He got back in touch with us after they dropped out for a while. We had watched the changes on their profile with dismay, and were sad to think we might not get to see them anymore. Mr. Fuse is more friends with him than I am, which is a situation I cherish because he tends to not have many friends on his own.

It was an unusual situation. We liked this couple very much. After our initial play date, they told us she didn't feel the chemistry with Mr. Fuse, but they enjoyed our company a lot and wanted to be friends. We felt the same way about being friends, although we were very disappointed not to be playing. Especially Mr. Fuse, because he is very sensitive about being rejected, and being a guy and less outgoing, it tends to happen more often to him than to me.

Fast forward to after their breakup. The guy told Mr. Fuse that the real reason we weren't playing anymore was that his former girlfriend tended to be fine with swinging as long as he wasn't having "too" good a time with his play partner, and she was jealous of me. We don't have any reason to think he was lying. Certainly he had no reason to flatter me, since he knew I liked him. This was a real shock on many levels. We had had a very good time, especially for a first play date, but I didn't think it rose to the level where anyone would really bat an eye. And this woman is a goddess on earth. I could have sworn she walked out of a Botticelli panting. And she is very, very sexual. They had been together several years and seemed very secure.

So now, we have seen him several times in the last few months. Until the last two times we saw him, there was no play. I've gotten to play with him twice. Everyone wishes he had a girlfriend, but until and unless that happens, Mr. Fuse has been pretty generous about letting me play with him, even though he isn't "getting" anything out of it. I happen to think he should be happy about it because it makes me happy, but he hasn't quite adopted that mindset yet. It's something we're working on.

This is a long-winded way of sharing our "the real reason" story. Anyone else have a story to share about "the real reason" you didn't play with another couple a second time, or the real reason another couple didn't play with you?

[Stevef8]

"I happen to think he should be happy about it because it makes me happy, but he hasn't quite adopted that mindset yet. It's something we're working on."

Just wondering, but if the tables were turned and he was playing with a goddess and you weren't getting anything, would you feel that you should be happy about it because it makes him happy?

[socolais]

I think "the real reason" comes in so many flavors and potentially has so many layers that there is no such thing as "the real reason". This revelation comes to you second-hand and you'll probably never know if that's the complete story. Any "no" is just as good as any other - and that's all it takes. I know the few times I've said "no" to a lady, there have been several reasons.

The insecurity about our spouse having too much fun is common among beginner swingers - or at least there is a caution about having too much fun with a playmate. Perhaps some couples take longer to get past that hurdle than others. I know my wife and I were cautious in the beginning, but I don't recall it ever being a "reason" we chose to not play with someone. There was one couple my wife vetoed and this thought could be arranged to fit that situation, at least on the surface level - but that's water under the bridge now.

[VegasLee]

Originally Posted by Stevef8

Just wondering, but if the tables were turned and he was playing with a goddess and you weren't getting anything, would you feel that you should be happy about it because it makes him happy?

No answering for The Fuse but for myself.

Me being the male part of a couple that is the case with me very much so. Laura gets way more offers and play time then I do. She is the women, that is how it works. We don't tend to play with couples. We each play with who we want to play with.

I am always very happy when she finds someone she wants to play with and I have never looked at it that I am getting nothing out of it. Her being excited and happy gives me a great deal out of it.

Just my view. Works for me.

[SW_PA_Couple]

We have reconciled ourselves to the idea that we will almost never know the real reason and, in most cases, will probably be better off not knowing. But we did, on one notable occasion, learn though a third party that our invitations were being answered with "we think we'll be washing the car that weekend" owing to the fact that "she" had developed the belief that JoAnn was "making a play" for "her man".

[lustylearning]

We've never asked. If we didn't get the green light, we moved on. I know that for us, we used to play more, but the four-way match thing has gotten to be a bigger hurdle.

On a side note, regarding insecurity, my husband is lucky, because there aren't many women who go on my personal "no" list for him. His "no" list for me is longer, but I accept it. We chose to do this for "us," not me. It's something I could and have bitched about, but it hasn't done me much good Just like a newbie, I say to myself, "we can only proceed at the pace of the slowest partner..." But what the heck? It's just a hobby

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by socolais

I think "the real reason" comes in so many flavors and potentially has so many layers that there is no such thing as "the real reason". This revelation comes to you second-hand and you'll probably never know if that's the complete story. Any "no" is just as good as any other - and that's all it takes. I know the few times I've said "no" to a lady, there have been several reasons.

Very well said, socolais.

Not once have we rejected a couple for a single reason. There have always been a number of reasons why we discontinue playing with a couple. I have my reasons, MrLM has his. Together the decision is made.

We don't say what those reasons are, and we wouldn't want to know why a couple isn't interested in continuing with us.

When a couple has broken up, as in this case, I can see why a reason would be given that could encourage the play to resume as a single with a couple, or as solo play.

LM

[Chicup]

I think its rare you ever learn the real reason.

Even when they tell you "it".

[Newpants]

Originally Posted by The Fuse

Anyone else have a story to share about "the real reason" you didn't play with another couple a second time, or the real reason another couple didn't play with you?

I can see the logic behind not wanting to hear the real reason someone didn't want to play with us, but doggone it, it's also just one of those things that I would really like to hear some time. Sometimes it can be something that would be simple and easy to fix. Other times it is something completely out of my control but either way I'd like to find out sometime.

The reason I say it could be something simple and easy to fix is one time we invited a very nice and attractive couple back to our hotel room and I thought a good time was had by all. The next day my wife said his breath was so bad she thought she was going to barf. By the time she got close enough to notice his breaht all the clothes were off and things were already happening and she didn't want to make a scene or flake out in the middle of play.

They tried on several other occasions to get together with us but Mrs New always declined. Part of me wanted to tell him to brush his teeth better and pop in some Mentos and try again but Mrs New was too embarassed and didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings and so a perfectly nice couple was left behind.

It's reason's like that that I wish people would be a little more honest about. There are many things about myself that I can either not change or wouldn't want to change that turn people off but there are probably other things that I can accomidate and improve upon.

sometimes feedback and a little constructive criticism can be good things. And I s'pose there are a lot of other times that people counterattack and throw gas on the fire and so noone wants to say anything.

[gatorvol64]

Originally Posted by Stevef8

"I happen to think he should be happy about it because it makes me happy, but he hasn't quite adopted that mindset yet. It's something we're working on."

Just wondering, but if the tables were turned and he was playing with a goddess and you weren't getting anything, would you feel that you should be happy about it because it makes him happy?

I cant' speak for Fuse either, however, swinging in our minds isn't a scorecard really. It's true we never played separately until we met the couple we are in a poly relationship with, but, even so...each encounter is just different. And no matter the configuration of play partners...MFM, FMF, MFMF...how can each person really "get" the same as the other every time. But no matter. We started swinging for fun and to see the other happy. It wasn't me wanting to see him happy only if I was happy (and vise versa). It's just to see each other happy.

Vol

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by Stevef8

"I happen to think he should be happy about it because it makes me happy, but he hasn't quite adopted that mindset yet. It's something we're working on."

Just wondering, but if the tables were turned and he was playing with a goddess and you weren't getting anything, would you feel that you should be happy about it because it makes him happy?

I would definitely be happy about it. I actually spend time and energy trying to facilitate him hooking with women he likes, who are either not part of a couple, or who play alone frequently.

The times he's been able to play alone, I have been basically cheering on the sidelines. He feels validated. That makes him happier and therefore me happier.

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by Newpants

I can see the logic behind not wanting to hear the real reason someone didn't want to play with us, but doggone it, it's also just one of those things that I would really like to hear some time. Sometimes it can be something that would be simple and easy to fix. Other times it is something completely out of my control but either way I'd like to find out sometime.

The reason I say it could be something simple and easy to fix is one time we invited a very nice and attractive couple back to our hotel room and I thought a good time was had by all. The next day my wife said his breath was so bad she thought she was going to barf. By the time she got close enough to notice his breaht all the clothes were off and things were already happening and she didn't want to make a scene or flake out in the middle of play.

They tried on several other occasions to get together with us but Mrs New always declined. Part of me wanted to tell him to brush his teeth better and pop in some Mentos and try again but Mrs New was too embarassed and didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings and so a perfectly nice couple was left behind.

It's reason's like that that I wish people would be a little more honest about. There are many things about myself that I can either not change or wouldn't want to change that turn people off but there are probably other things that I can accomidate and improve upon.

sometimes feedback and a little constructive criticism can be good things. And I s'pose there are a lot of other times that people counterattack and throw gas on the fire and so noone wants to say anything.

That brings me to the other time we got the real story after we assumed something else. This is embarrassing, but the guy half of a couple thought I had too strong a smell on my "lady parts", and wouldn't play after that. I was clean (of course I was clean, I had showered and washed probably a few hours before), but I tend to have an actual "woman" aroma there, unlike his wife and a few of the other ladies we've known, who seem to have no smell at all. Something like that is easy to fix with a baby wipe in the bathroom after arriving at their place, before play.

We had assumed a different reason. The guy's wife and Mr. Fuse had become close, and the guy had also suffered a big career setback. We figured he felt diminished and threatened. But I went out to lunch with her a few weeks afterward (I really liked her too), and she told me the real reason.

Okay, it was an awful thing to hear. I'd never heard that from anyone before, husband or playmates. We've been swinging for four years and have had several longer-term playmate relationships, and no one ever expressed any thoughts to the effect that there was an issue in that area. But.... if one guy thought it, how many others were turned off and never said anything? So, after feeling horribly embarrassed, I used it as an opportunity to improve.

I know it's not fun to tell someone you think their hygiene is bad. Believe me, it's not nice to hear, either! But now that I know one partner was bothered by my natural smell, I am really really meticulous about not only being clean, but using wipes shortly before play. I'm also taking a probiotic that is marketed to diminish feminine odor.

The thing is, they did me a huge favor by telling me. Now going forward I am different and better because of it. But... that didn't help Mr. Fuse and the lady, who both really wanted to be together again. The couple moved away shortly afterwards. I felt horrible, because there are so many times Mr. Fuse doesn't "get the girl", and this time the problem was me. I know it won't happen again, though, at least not in that way!

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by socolais

I think "the real reason" comes in so many flavors and potentially has so many layers that there is no such thing as "the real reason". This revelation comes to you second-hand and you'll probably never know if that's the complete story. Any "no" is just as good as any other - and that's all it takes. I know the few times I've said "no" to a lady, there have been several reasons.

I'll gently disagree with this. The story we got wasn't second-hand, it was from half of the couple. They had discussed the situation between the two of them more than once. I consider that firsthand, especially since I trust his judgment and interpretation.

And I also don't think any no is as good as another. I think it was Ben Franklin who said something to the effect of 'our critics are our friends, for they inform us of our weaknesses'. I wouldn't want to know the real reason every time, or share the real reason, because most often it's the obvious -- someone didn't have a good time, someone just doesn't feel attracted anymore, someone likes a different body type, personalities don't mesh, etc.

But if there is something we're doing wrong, or that we can improve, we feel better off if we are informed. It's up to us all whether we want to share those reasons.

I should add, we've never asked a couple directly why they don't want to play anymore. If someone wants to volunteer the information, that's up to them; we'd never ask outright or even obliquely. The times we've been told, it's because we had a real friendship, or the beginnings of one... the type where we really talk to each other.

[AskMeOk]

Most people will never *really* know.....

I think, maybe, you got an honest "why." That was enough to indicate they wouldn't make it and such was underscored by their separation...

If you and the wife are ok doing him, do it.... otherwise, let it go.

Jealousy is SUCH a buzz kill and it was good that you were spared that drama. Consider yourself lucky.....

[socolais]

Originally Posted by The Fuse

I'll gently disagree with this.

Your tact is impressive. I think I made some assumptions that didn't pan out. Yes, when we can use the new information to make a trivial change and it results in things generally being better, that's a smart move.


It is interesting that you mention 'taste'. I've declined a repeat opportinity with a lady and I guess the most significant reason was her 'taste' - not really objectionable, just not my preference. I wonder if things might have turned out differently if I had gently mentioned something about it. She had no shortage of playmates at the party, so perhaps this broadly falls under "chemistry" compatability.