Vanilla friends ever push your sexual buttons?

[VanHlebar]

This post is sort of tied in with the Playdar thread but I had a couple other questions so thought I would start a seperate thread.

Have any of you ever had any of your vanilla friends, specifically couples, that just pushed your sexual buttons? We have some friends that we have known now for a couple of years but that we just really started to get to know better this past summer. We have been playing cards with them, going to clubs, MrsVan and the wife usually meet at least once a week to have lunch and girl time together etc etc.

The wife just seems to always push my buttons. I really think she knows what she is doing I think she enjoys doing it. I can be good most times, but when someone starts to do certain things or say certain things around me I am like a shark to blood. I just start flirting back and then it is downhill from there.

This couple has said and done a lot of things that have really set off our Playdar, but to be honest I wonder how much is really setting off the Playdar and how much is us, or more likely me, wanting it to go off if that makes sense. The wife just does it for me, and I can't even put a finger on why.

This leads to yet another question for you. We all know the great piece of advice that is always given out "Make friends of swingers, not swingers friends." And we firmly believe in this advice. So what would you do if you found out that your friends of say a few months turned out to be in the LS? You knew them strictly as vanillas but then something comes out and you both realize that you both where hiding the same secret? Would that/does that change anything for you? Especially if you where attracted to them?

I think in this situation for us it might open up things and allow everyone to be a little more "open" but since in this case, they have become such great vanilla friends we would not want to risk losing or screwing up that friendship over a good time in the sack.

So what say you all?

[redgirlwithfrec]

i think that if you were both hiding the same thing and somehow you found out about it then it wouldn't be as big of a deal if any then lets say you were overtly trying to convert your friends. The funny thing is in this case if they are already lifestyle friendly she may have been testing the waters to try and convert you lol.

[turnuptheheat]

Oh, stuff like that happens all the time!
It can be very frustrating!
On a recent wine tour on a limo bus, I ended up with a bra as ear warmers. It was not my wife's but a pretty lady who was flying solo. I got a lap dance from another vanilla and oh how the gears were turning!
I think it was just folks letting down their hair and while who knows where it COULD go, I don't think it was meant to lead us to the bedroom.

[VanHlebar]

Originally Posted by turnuptheheat

Oh, stuff like that happens all the time!
It can be very frustrating!
On a recent wine tour on a limo bus, I ended up with a bra as ear warmers. It was not my wife's but a pretty lady who was flying solo. I got a lap dance from another vanilla and oh how the gears were turning!
I think it was just folks letting down their hair and while who knows where it COULD go, I don't think it was meant to lead us to the bedroom.

And this is exactly how we feel with our friends. A lot of the conversation started because they watched Swingtown when it was on CBS and somehow it came out that we also watched it. They have also had a few "slips" as we where talking to them about how we have friends that keep trying to get us to goto a local gay club, but we explained that we wouldn't be able to goto the bar because my daughter frequents the particular club with her girlfriend and well it would be strange. So then our vanilla friends have "slipped" and said to us a few times, "So have you guys made it up to the swingclub...oh wait I mean gay bar with your friends."

At nothing else we think they either know about us or have their suspicions about us. They don't seem to care if they do know. Like you said though it can seriously be frustrating...like the time we where all out dancing and while I was dancing with her in a way that most guys would not dance with a woman, I didn't think it was all that bad. Well she grabbed my crotch...but I chalked it up to the alcohol that she was drinking.

-Van

[ownerspet]

It sounds like they may be in the lifestyle or interested in the lifestyle. It could be either one. However, there is still the third possibility that they aren't involved in the lifestyle, have no interest in the lifestyle, know that you are in the lifestyle, are not judging you for being in the lifestyle, and just really drunk (when she grabbed your crotch on the dance floor).

Although I find it odd that a woman (non-swinger or swinger) with no sexual interest, would grab your crotch even under the influence of alcohol. (even a woman that is really good freinds with you and your wife) This is really a bold action for someone to take, even for heavy flirting. My conclusion would probably be that they are at least interested in swinging and find you two as a couple attractive.

It may be time to flat out ask them, What kind of "lifestyle" do you two live? with an emphasis on the lifestyle word, Or flat out ask them, when they are together in a non-threatening manner, "Are ya'll swingers?" Then wait and see what their reaction is (a casual smile on your faces might help).

Then if they say "no, why would you ask that?"

You could always respond with, "we were just wondering because it sounded odd that you mistakenly asked us about going to a swingers club."

Followed up by, "we didn't think much of it and thought it was just mis-use of verbage, until she grabbed my crotch on the dance floor... then it just made us wonder."

It's probably easier said than, done.

But, I'd think if they aren't swingers and not at all interested in the lifestyle, they are probably going to come off as apologetic about grabbing your crotch especially if they don't know you are in the lifestyle. Even if they retort with we know you're in the lifestyle, you can always respond with something like, "It was hot, but It just really caught me by surprise."

That's my 2 cents....

[ncmd_couple]

Rule #1 - Honesty.

You have a lot of leads here. They were watching Swingtown. The dancing, other things like asking about the swinger's club. When the alcohol is not a factor, ask them if they are swingers. I have been asked this question, and answered it honestly. If they aren't swingers and just playing their own fantasies, and you still want to be friends with them, the level the playing feel with honesty between the four of you.

S

[VanHlebar]

Originally Posted by ncmd_couple

Rule #1 - Honesty.

You have a lot of leads here. They were watching Swingtown. The dancing, other things like asking about the swinger's club. When the alcohol is not a factor, ask them if they are swingers. I have been asked this question, and answered it honestly. If they aren't swingers and just playing their own fantasies, and you still want to be friends with them, the level the playing feel with honesty between the four of you.

S

Oh we wouldn't stop being friends with them if we found out that they where not in the LS. We really enjoy them as friends period which is why to us, even if they where in the LS we might never go that direction with them. We value their friendship way more than the chance to get naked with them...but you just never know.

Things seems to keep coming up when we are with them and it will just go at whatever pace it goes at.

Like I said in the original post, it is more just that she pushes my buttons almost every time we are together and it just amusing and sometimes frustrating.

-Van

[sweet_tna]

One of my close girlfriends is definitely vanilla, though Mr. Sweet and I dearly wish she weren't.

As for your friends, I'd be inclined to think that if they're not in the lifestyle already, they've definitely given it some thought. I can be pretty flirtatious and have trouble remembering to dance "vanilla style", but I'd never grab a guy's crotch unless he were a playmate and I was 100% sure it was okay with him and his wife.

I'd suggest that it's time to talk to your friends. Sometime when ya'll are all together and everyone's sober, just take the direct approach and come out and ask.

Good luck,

=)

[MrkLin]

I guess my first question to you, VanHlebar, is this; all things being equal, and if they were an LS couple, would you want to move things along and play with them? If the answer for both of you is yes, read on. If no, then you have the answer already, and can just enjoy the fun, flirting, and occasional crotch grabs.

I'm the first one to admit the fact that I'm a cultural infidel. I don't watch much TV at all, so as a result, I've never seen Swingtown, and don't even know which night of the week it's on. But since it appears that all of you watch it, why not invite them over one night to watch it with you? Make it like 'movie night.' You know - snacks and drinks - things like that. Lord knows you'll probably find lots to talk about either during the commercial breaks, or after the show. It might even give you the opening you're looking for to approach the subject with them. Who knows? Swingtown night might just turn into a weekly thing, if everyone has fun with it.

If it comes out that they're considering the LS, then there you go. If it turns out that they're not, then you had a fun night with some good friends.

We've had some vanilla friends who have pinged our playdar a time or two, but none as strongly as the situation you describe. I'll admit to dropping subtle hints here and there in a non-verbal manner. I've left the Swinger's Board and Swing Lifestyle website loaded in a web browser, though minimized. Anyone looking at our monitor can look down at the taskbar and see that one of us is perusing sites that deal with the subject. I've also used swinger's terminology like 'vanilla' to describe certain things.

I do think you missed an opening when they asked about the swing club. It may very well have been an honest mistake, but it could have also been them trying to give you an opening, or get a reaction.

I do understand your concern in losing a pair of good friends if you're wrong, and agree with you completely in not doing anything to screw that up. It does, on the other hand, sound like they're raising the bar on you.

[VanHlebar]

Originally Posted by MrkLin

I guess my first question to you, VanHlebar, is this; all things being equal, and if they were an LS couple, would you want to move things along and play with them?

This would be an emphatic YES!!!!

If we had met them inside the LS first we would have already been naked a number of times!

I am think the way this is going to play out is that we might take a stab at broaching the subject if and when the sexual inuendo peaks again. Until then the flirting will remain just that, flirting...

-Van

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by VanHlebar

Like I said in the original post, it is more just that she pushes my buttons almost every time we are together and it just amusing and sometimes frustrating.

-Van

Imagine this dialogue in private from the other couple...
Husband: "How's it going? You seem frustrated tonight?"
Wife: "I've been trying like mad to send every single I can think of to Van, but he just doesn't seem to get it. Short of hitting him over the head with a sledgehammer, I don't know what else to do. I've flirted heavily with him, talked dirty I don't know how many times, grabbed his crotch, danced dirty with him, asked him if he's been to the swing club, and he still doesn't seem to get it.
Husband: "Well, maybe you need to be more blunt and just ask him straight up."
Wife: "I can't do that! You know I'm not THAT forward! I just want to have sex with him soooo badly. Why isn't he getting the message? I'm about to give up"


You know, it's possible.

[VanHlebar]

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

Imagine this dialogue in private from the other couple...
Husband: "How's it going? You seem frustrated tonight?"
Wife: "I've been trying like mad to send every single I can think of to Van, but he just doesn't seem to get it. Short of hitting him over the head with a sledgehammer, I don't know what else to do. I've flirted heavily with him, talked dirty I don't know how many times, grabbed his crotch, danced dirty with him, asked him if he's been to the swing club, and he still doesn't seem to get it.
Husband: "Well, maybe you need to be more blunt and just ask him straight up."
Wife: "I can't do that! You know I'm not THAT forward! I just want to have sex with him soooo badly. Why isn't he getting the message? I'm about to give up"


You know, it's possible.

This made me just about spit my lunch out of my mouth when I read the email today! I can't really see the other wife saying anything like that, but that is only because I am an ugly bald guy. She might say some of the earlier items of hitting me over the head with a sledgehammer and to be honest, I am pretty slow when it comes to woman flirting with me. Even when they are obvious I tend to miss it and MrsVan just looks at me like I am a dork.

-Van

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by VanHlebar

This made me just about spit my lunch out of my mouth when I read the email today! I can't really see the other wife saying anything like that, but that is only because I am an ugly bald guy. She might say some of the earlier items of hitting me over the head with a sledgehammer and to be honest, I am pretty slow when it comes to woman flirting with me. Even when they are obvious I tend to miss it and MrsVan just looks at me like I am a dork.

-Van

Haha!

Well, it's easy sometimes to get unintentionally wrapped up in our own perspectives and not be able to step off our thought train for a moment and consider other vantage points. Reminds me of a book I read in college called "Ways of Seeing". As I recall, the book had passage after passage describing the same, simplistic, everyday scene...and each passage told it from a completely different perspective.

I agree with others here. If you value this couple's friendship, attempting to raise the subject might be dicey and crash the friendship. If you can readily imagine not having them as friends, and losing them as friends doesn't have significant consequences beyond losing a friend, then maybe it's worth a shot. Only you and MrsVan can evaluate that.

My wife can be fairly oblivious at times. She's a very intelligent and readily capable of multi-tasking...which she frequently does. The result of that is it's hard for her to notice things sometimes. I've used this to my advantage around Christmas and birthdays before We've had great chuckles out of some of the things she's been oblivious to. I've pointed out men's reactions to her sometimes, and she just didn't notice.

Being bald, by the way, doesn't make you ugly. My wife just today was remarking about how she'd gladly hop in bed with Patrick Stewart. His bald head added to it for her. Looking at your profile; you gotta get this monkey off your back that you're ugly The monkey is ugly, not you You and your wife seem an attractive couple.

[knb2004]

Generally, I agree with the sentiment that you don't try to turn friends into swingers. However, as has been so amply noted here, there are definitely signs on the wall that you wouldn't be turning friends into swingers, you'd just all be admitting what everyone already suspects but is afraid to say out loud.

My advice: Tell them you're in the lifestyle. Make it clear that it need not change the relationship if they are not, nor will it change things if they are, but for whatever reason taking it to the next level is not going to happen.

We make no secret about our lifestyle to our real friends, and have never damaged any relationship as a result. We've never swung with anyone that we didn't meet via a traditional lifestyle venue, though there is one couple that we've come close with. I think sometimes we swingers perhaps go a bit too far with the discretion thing. No, I don't want my boss to find out because I don't know what the reaction would be and I must assume that it could be extreme. No, I don't want my mom to find out because I DO know what the reaction would be, and extreme wouldn't even begin to cover it. However, people who are granted friend status, which is a big deal, all know. If you are our friend, you know the real us, not some facade we put on.

If anyone ever did have a problem with it, that's okay as it simply means they're someone I don't want to associate with in the first place.

She grabbed your cock, fer Chrissake, I can't imagine they'd react with shock and horror knowing their preexisting assumptions are accurate, even if a little drunk cock grabbing is as far as they'd ever be willing to take it.

[ratimadan]

To us it sounds like the couple (or the female) is trying to feel you out as to whether or not you swing as a couple, or, whether or not you would be open to swapping mates for sexual intercourse and /or fucking each other's spouse.

I would ask them if they have considered swinging and swapping mates with another couple for social fun as well as having sexual intercourse with another couple's spouse or mate. At the minumum I would ask what they think about the swinging lifestyle where couples do go outside of normal societal marital bounds and enjoy sexual intercourse by swapping mates with another couple/s, or more plainly what they think about fucking someone else's wife or hubby. If they revolt at the thought they are confirmed vanillas.

There is very little to lose by way of friendship if you pose the question diplomatically so that does not elicit a simple yes/no answer. If they are ambivalent about the swinging lfestyle that still leaves the possibility of you swapping mates and getting the opportunity to fuck his wife.