Is sex visual?

[lustylearning]

Originally Posted by widowerman

But you do see it first. Just like, I asked. First, it is a visual clue and then it is the talking. I still say, it is just like high school.

I believe you asked if it was 90% visual, which is different from asking whether or not physical attraction plays a part in choice of sexual partners.

Originally Posted by widowerman

By the way, a general question to the public; have you ever turned someone down because they were just not “your type”?
And then hook up with someone else at the same meeting, whether it is a party or club almost right in front of the person you turned down?

That's an interesting question. Are you implying, by asking it, that if you're not interested in playing with someone, that you should hide your interest in playing with someone else because the person you are not interested in playing with may note it?

[Chicup]

The conventional wisdom is that men are more visually stimulated with sex than women are.

I think this is, in general, a true statement in most circumstances. Women look for status, power, wealth, or attributes which can lead to such things such as intelligence, confidence, charisma. This is basic and genetically driven. Before someone tells me they only like weak poor shy men and married one just like that, these are just general trends. Like all trends there will be people on the ends of the spectrum. Its not that mens looks don't matter, but they are secondary.

Men look for youth and beauty first and foremost. This is then followed by other traits which tend to rate of a lower importance. I think this does lead to a rather amusing karma when very wealthy and powerful men marry the very attractive, but maybe not so bright woman and then wonder why their kids are such losers, forgetting their kids are 50% her. Again this is a trend, maybe you only go for ugly old women with multiple PhD's, but as a rule this is rather obvious.

Somewhere along those lines we tend to find people 'our level', end up getting married and hopefully are happy.

This is 'normal' life, normal dating, normal behavior for long term relationships.

Swinging is different, well kinda.

For the men, its pretty much the same. Men want youth, men want beauty, men want HOT. You can get into 'types' and the like, but it doesn't take a lot of effort to see what women would be the most popular at a given event. Yes personality does matter, but really good looks can make up for a lot of bad personality generally easier than the other way around. Yes we all have personal examples again where the girl you didn't find attractive had such a great personality etc but trends.

For the women, I think it changes a bit. Women are not looking for a long term relationship in swinging, women are looking for a fuck toy. Liking the guy is fine, having a good personality is fine, but they don't have time to find out his inner strengths, and it really doesn't matter to them much either. Looks are more important than in 'real life'.

I keep bringing up that this isn't how everyone swings/rate partners, mostly because in the past people will take their exception to the rule as the rule. Just because maybe you as a male only care about a womans personality or you as a woman only care about looks, it doesn't change the trends which are obvious in society.

On a personal note, the focus on looks in swinging by the women is why I've been hitting the weight bench and dropping the love handles. If I want to have sex with women I find sexually attractive, I need to be physically attractive to them as well.

[widowerman]

Originally Posted by Chicup

On a personal note, the focus on looks in swinging by the women is why I've been hitting the weight bench and dropping the love handles. If I want to have sex with women I find sexually attractive, I need to be physically attractive to them as well.

That is an interesting point you bring up. Now I have a follow up; since you admit what most if not all of us have been thinking anyway, how do any of you folks handle a situation where you are the object of desire and the person who wants to hook up briefly with you cannot because he or she has rules with their partner?

I know this is that drama thing mentioned on other forums. However, I believe it does fit in here. I personally have been told that I am off limits because of my status on multiple occasions by women. They want to have sex with me, or even to talk to me just in general, however, they live by and obey their rules with their partners. This translates into that jealousy factor.

Now, on many occasions I will have a partner that I do couple up with when we go to some parties. And even there, if she, my partner is not attractive enough for the male, we get turned down. As the party moves on, I will then be approached by the female who we were attracted to and she will admit she would have sex with me in a heartbeat, if only her male partner had something in it for him. So, Ken and Barbie are alive and well in swingland USA.

Now that is a phenomenon I find interesting for swingers. I do observe the rules, of others. I, on the other hand, have no rules.

Do any of you have rules on swinging? Would you prevent your partner from having a good time because there is nothing for you to gain? I will allow my partner to have sex with whomever she wants. It is her right as well as her desire. Does that make me uncomfortable with her activities? No. This is swinging to me. On a personal note, my lady friend with benefits hides the fact that she has had on occasions, had sex. I ask her in a general direct way and she comes out in a round about way that she has had sex when I was not around. Duh, this does not bother me in the least. I do not have drama queen moments. Her, on the other hand, will rear her head in the awful green monster of jealousy if I told her that I found a women attractive enough to have sex with. She is insecure, while I feel very secure. It is all about the eye candy appeal. I can pass myself off as eye candy when need be. I hit the treadmill, the weight bench; even try to read up on current events to have my own opinions. I just do not like the jealousy factor baggage that comes along on too many occasions. That is not what swinging is about, to me anyway.
I think I see that crack of lighting well in advance of it striking me on the criticism trail. So be it.

BTW, Chicup, I like your style and your concern on being eye candy for the ladies. That is what this is all about, and that is exactly what is on this very site for multiple advertisements. Not many will admit to it, but sex is about bragging rights on the hot number that was bagged. Just look at the pop up ads right here. Do you see “normal” folks having sex or do you see Ken and Barbie, and Barbie’s friend, Stacy, having sex?

I still stand by my views; sex is 90% visual.

p.s. Please pardon the unintentional pun.

[WeUse]

There are some really great posts here!

Now for the academic:

A few evenings ago, I saw a documentary on the Discovery channel that addresses this question. British scientists from various disciplines, e.g., psychology, anthropology (physical & cultural), a psychiatrist, and an assortment of sociologists, computer graphics guys and some “dating specialists”. Their objective was to prove the scientific basis for “computer dating”.

Their first question was whether physical attraction visual, and what does this mean? To do this, they began by convening their study group of ??? single males and females in their mid-20's to early 30's (each person individually) to conjure up what the “perfect” specimen of the opposite sex would look like. A male and female computer composite was made of 3-D images that modified during the show, e.g. larger breast, smaller breast, etc.

They began by assuming that since long-term married couples often resemble each other in facial structure/appearance, that people of like kind facial structure would be attracted to each other. I was fascinated with the “facial identification” program they used to take face shots of 30 males and 30 females in their “test group” and employ graphic overlays (measures lines, angles, relationships between say the left eye brow and the chin, etc.), to bring out the differences and similarities. Four out of the 30 couples were nearly identical matches. Several rounds “speed dating” with each participant equipped with an “attraction meter” were used to test their theories.

Bottom line:

* Nobody wants to have sex with their sibling so the “similar face” idea is out.

*Women are most (and initially) attracted to guys who are taller than they are (and as a matter of fashion on this British film, curly hair seems to prevail over buzz cuts or long hair).

*Men (and to a much lesser extent, women) were attracted by the ratio between the waist line and the hip line. The anthropologist said that because historically that ratio is the biggest single factor indicating fertility, which, from an anthropological standpoint, drives sex appeal.

*In the initial first few rounds of speed dating, not ONE person gave thought to their fundamental “compatibility quotient”. - - After 3 months, only to of the couples were “friends only” and after something like six months, none of them had contact with any other participants.

My interpretation: Is sex visual? - Absolutely!

What about people who are blind? I suppose there may be a niche for blind GYOBs or urologists? How would a blind urologist “see” how acute a patients ED was? (Sounds like the making of a joke!)

[Seriously, I would not have posted anything this long, except there appears to be genuine interest in this subject. That was a good show if you can fine it. I'd be interested in knowing its name/title so I could find it again in the library. It may have been on BBC]]

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by widowerman

I personally have been told that I am off limits because of my status on multiple occasions by women. They want to have sex with me, or even to talk to me just in general, however, they live by and obey their rules with their partners. This translates into that jealousy factor.

I will have to disagree here. We primarily look for couples to play with, and if we show up at an event and there is a guy that I think is attractive...but is there as a SM...then I move on. Because I think my sweetie is jealous? Hardly...he's quite the voyeur and would probably love to watch/join in. But that's not what we are there for.

We are looking to find other couples to swap with so we both play. Otherwise play time would be very lopsided...not necessarily keeping score. But say everytime we go to a party/club and people just want to borrow him and I'm getting no play time...well that wouldn't be any fun for me after a while and I don't imagine it would be much fun for him in the opposite scenario.

We're in this to have a good time together...if we wanted to play alone all the time what would be the point of this? We could just open the relationship and do our own thing.

[sweet_tna]

Originally Posted by widowerman

Is sex 90% visual? As in, the object of your affection has to be great looking, good looking, somewhat good looking, who the hell is looking?

For me, no. Yes, a physical attraction is the initial draw. But there has to be something beyond that (personality/chemistry) for me to maintain any interest.

During the sex itself, I would still say it's not all visual. It's 90% tactile--what I feel when I touch my partner, and how I feel when my partner touches me. Sounds and visuals make up the rest of the equation.

Second, question: would you have sex with just about anything that is available?

NO. Absolutely not. Even if I'm horny as hell, and am dying to get laid and no one else seems interested . . . so what? I go home with my honey, and still have a great night.

=)

[LFM2]

For me, no, sex isn't that visual. Maybe 30%. It takes me 10 seconds at most to see if the guy is acceptable. By acceptable, I mean, hygienic, does he have teeth, does he have kind eyes, and is his smile nice? Body shape is not an issue. I'm drawn more toward bigger men. Call me weird, but six-packs do nothing for me. I'm drawn more towards personality, confidence (don't confuse that with arrogance, which is a total turnoff) and intelligence. It takes me 10 minutes to know if we mesh. This goes the same with couples.

As for your second question -- absolutely not. There isn't a chance in hell I'm going to fuck someone just because I'm horny. To borrow sweet_tna's line, "I go home with my honey, and still have a great night".

[good times]

Hmm, hard question to answer because it really depends on what point we are in the relationship to me.

Initially, physical attraction is what I go by 100% of the time. In other words, if I am not physically attracted to a woman, nothing further of a sexual nature is going to happen. After that though, I couldn't put a percentage figure on how much of a role physical attraction plays for me. I have met many women that I was initially attracted to that my attraction went to zero after talking with them for a few minutes. On the other hand, I don't ever recall a time that a woman I wasn't initially attracted to was able talk herself into being physically attractive to me.

[widowerman]

Well, I say this much, I really must have hit a nerve.
Personally, I want to thank each and everyone for the total support of this study.
The data keeps pouring in and we are discovering some truths about what is out there.
Good dialog, keep it up.

And thank you, each and everyone of you!

Widowerman

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by widowerman

That is an interesting point you bring up. Now I have a follow up; since you admit what most if not all of us have been thinking anyway, how do any of you folks handle a situation where you are the object of desire and the person who wants to hook up briefly with you cannot because he or she has rules with their partner?

I know this is that drama thing mentioned on other forums. However, I believe it does fit in here. I personally have been told that I am off limits because of my status on multiple occasions by women. They want to have sex with me, or even to talk to me just in general, however, they live by and obey their rules with their partners. This translates into that jealousy factor.

True story. My wife has the choice of an MFM or a 4 some this weekend. Its the same guy either way, and I asked her which she would rather have. She would rather have the foursome, and thats with no female bi activities, so thats not the issue. As a couple we like foursomes better, and thats not related to jealousy. Honestly I'd rather have a 4some than a FMF, the dynamics just work better for us.

Now I'm sure jealousy is an issue for some, but our rules are we both play or neither play. Our 3somes are with selected long time friends we have played with as couples before only.

Finally, and this doesn't make me popular with the singles crowd, but really I have to wonder whats up with most singles in the lifestyle. I wonder 'why' they are single, why they choose this lifestyle where at least males are not wanted by so many, and quite frankly whats wrong with them. Rather than find out who is well adjusted we would rather just avoid the lot and that includes single females.

Now, on many occasions I will have a partner that I do couple up with when we go to some parties. And even there, if she, my partner is not attractive enough for the male, we get turned down. As the party moves on, I will then be approached by the female who we were attracted to and she will admit she would have sex with me in a heartbeat, if only her male partner had something in it for him. So, Ken and Barbie are alive and well in swingland USA.

This sounds a bit like bitter single male pity here. If the guy doesn't want to have sex with your partner, you will be turned down. Just as you wouldn't approach a couple where you had no interest in the female. This isn't only ken and barbies its just sex in general.

Now that is a phenomenon I find interesting for swingers. I do observe the rules, of others. I, on the other hand, have no rules.

You are a single male, what rules would you set on your limits? I have no rules for me, I do what I want, my wife on the other hand has some things she isn't comfortable with me doing, and those are 'my rules', its part of why singles and couples are different in swinging.

Do any of you have rules on swinging? Would you prevent your partner from having a good time because there is nothing for you to gain?

If we are both not having a good time, neither of us are having a good time. She is not happy if I'm ignored, I'm not happy if she is, as such this really isn't the issue even though to an outsider it may look like shes not playing just because there is nothing for me to gain. Its not me refusing as much as she refusing to leave me in the lurch for her own pleasure.

BTW, Chicup, I like your style and your concern on being eye candy for the ladies. That is what this is all about, and that is exactly what is on this very site for multiple advertisements. Not many will admit to it, but sex is about bragging rights on the hot number that was bagged. Just look at the pop up ads right here. Do you see “normal” folks having sex or do you see Ken and Barbie, and Barbie’s friend, Stacy, having sex?

Occasionally I've seen some adds where the people involved are not very attractive for the swingers sites but over all you are correct in that the adds are about that. That being said MY desire to look better is related to what I am attracted to sexually, and for those women it helps if I'm better looking myself. Were I to change my strike zone a bit, I could have a lot more play partners, but for me its not about numbers, hot or otherwise, but just what I like. I happen to like women who are physically fit and as such they tend to like men who are, so I better be. Its not about bragging rights at all, after all who am I, a married swinger going to brag to? I enjoy the experience, I feel a nice ego boost knowing the woman wants to have sex with me, and I have fond memories of most of my swinging partners, but I respect them too. I don't get a feeling of that respect from you.

I think thats part of the single male turn off. If you are just looking to increase your personal counter by one, to basically use my wife with out respecting our relationship, I don't want you to touch her. She is my wife first, mother of my children, love of my life, not the catch of the day.

[lustylearning]

Originally Posted by Chicup

True story. My wife has the choice of an MFM or a 4 some this weekend. Its the same guy either way, and I asked her which she would rather have. She would rather have the foursome, and thats with no female bi activities, so thats not the issue. As a couple we like foursomes better, and thats not related to jealousy. Honestly I'd rather have a 4some than a FMF, the dynamics just work better for us.

Now I'm sure jealousy is an issue for some, but our rules are we both play or neither play. Our 3somes are with selected long time friends we have played with as couples before only.

Finally, and this doesn't make me popular with the singles crowd, but really I have to wonder whats up with most singles in the lifestyle. I wonder 'why' they are single, why they choose this lifestyle where at least males are not wanted by so many, and quite frankly whats wrong with them. Rather than find out who is well adjusted we would rather just avoid the lot and that includes single females.



This sounds a bit like bitter single male pity here. If the guy doesn't want to have sex with your partner, you will be turned down. Just as you wouldn't approach a couple where you had no interest in the female. This isn't only ken and barbies its just sex in general.



You are a single male, what rules would you set on your limits? I have no rules for me, I do what I want, my wife on the other hand has some things she isn't comfortable with me doing, and those are 'my rules', its part of why singles and couples are different in swinging.



If we are both not having a good time, neither of us are having a good time. She is not happy if I'm ignored, I'm not happy if she is, as such this really isn't the issue even though to an outsider it may look like shes not playing just because there is nothing for me to gain. Its not me refusing as much as she refusing to leave me in the lurch for her own pleasure.





Occasionally I've seen some adds where the people involved are not very attractive for the swingers sites but over all you are correct in that the adds are about that. That being said MY desire to look better is related to what I am attracted to sexually, and for those women it helps if I'm better looking myself. Were I to change my strike zone a bit, I could have a lot more play partners, but for me its not about numbers, hot or otherwise, but just what I like. I happen to like women who are physically fit and as such they tend to like men who are, so I better be. Its not about bragging rights at all, after all who am I, a married swinger going to brag to? I enjoy the experience, I feel a nice ego boost knowing the woman wants to have sex with me, and I have fond memories of most of my swinging partners, but I respect them too. I don't get a feeling of that respect from you.

I think thats part of the single male turn off. If you are just looking to increase your personal counter by one, to basically use my wife with out respecting our relationship, I don't want you to touch her. She is my wife first, mother of my children, love of my life, not the catch of the day.

well said

[fun4Ds]

Originally Posted by widowerman

Well, I say this much, I really must have hit a nerve.

Well your not hitting my nerves, just trying to stay on board....

Personally, I want to thank each and everyone for the total support of this study.

This takes on a whole new meaning now doesn't it. Who's the research for ?

The data keeps pouring in and we are discovering some truths about what is out there.

Who is we ? I thought you have been swinging enough (single/ and with a partner) to have seen whats out there

I might have missed something, How long have you been swinging ?

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by WeUse

There are some really great posts here!

Now for the academic:

A few evenings ago, I saw a documentary on the Discovery channel that addresses this question. British scientists from various disciplines, e.g., psychology, anthropology (physical & cultural), a psychiatrist, and an assortment of sociologists, computer graphics guys and some “dating specialists”. Their objective was to prove the scientific basis for “computer dating”.

They forgot the important one. Evolutionary biologists.

Bottom line:

Nobody wants to have sex with their sibling so the “similar face” idea is out.

I would dispute this. In cases where siblings father/daughters are separated at birth, they are MORE likely to fall for each other when they meet. On the other hand unrelated children who grow up together are less likely to marry and has been documented in Israeli Kibbutz's. It seems that the genetic urge against incest is not based on looks but on a sort of imprinting on who you grow up with.

*In the initial first few rounds of speed dating, not ONE person gave thought to their fundamental “compatibility quotient”. - - After 3 months, only to of the couples were “friends only” and after something like six months, none of them had contact with any other participants.

I'd call swinging closer to speed dating, but really speed dating has very little to do with real human interactions for long term relationships.

[djjwp]

For him, yes. If she is not HWP and attractive, it will be the anti-Viagra! I want her to be submissive as well but that is the other 10%

For her, he must be HWP and attractive and well groomed with manners.

[tojoe59]

The mind is the best sex part.....I love to watch the action then jump in and keep it going. A BBW can be as hot as a porn star if she wants to . she just need to bring an A-GAME. I'm no George Cloony but I do try to being my game to the play.