Please save my sanity :)

[IndyNurse]

I will try not to make this lengthy, but... here goes. Hubby and I have been together for 13 years and have been swinging for 9 of those. Up until 2004, we enjoyed swinging without any problems. However, our relationship experienced problems and my bipolar hubby went manic, met a woman and had an affair that lasted for 1.5 years. I finally found out about the affair and confronted him (it had already ended by the time I found out). The other woman was married too and my husband not only begged me to stay with him, but he spoke to that woman's husband and apologized to him for what he had done with his wife. (that blew my mind). We immediately went into counseling, my husband became a different person - a better person. Since that time, he became more attentive, more loving, more sensitive to my needs, more compassionate and he just seems to be a happier person. Although that affair was devastating, he is more lovable and selfless. He wasn't exactly a very nice husband before - he was selfish and distant. Unfortunately...since that trust was broken, I have a hard time trusting him 100% again. But We have gone back to our swing lifestyle - which we BOTH want to enjoy. The problem is that it drives me nuts to see him turned on by another woman. I fantasize about it and it turns me on, but when it happens in real life, it bothers me. I know it's wrong. If he gets really flirty or someone rubs him and he gets a hardon, it makes me wonder if that's how his affair began and my mind OVERthinks the whole thing. I bring the misery on myself. I have no reason to doubt his faithfulness since that time, and we have a fantastic sex life together, but we aren't the "talk about it" kind of couple. I've told him that it bothers me to see him with other women and he said it's only the ones that I think are prettier than me. He's right. I like being with other men as a group... me, hubby and another man. There's no one man that turns me on - it's the situation. For him, there's particular women that turn him on. I guess that's what bothers me. I really want to get past this for many reasons. What's crazy is, if we have a MFF, that's cool... he's not giving her his undivided attention. But if we're going to hook up with another couple... that's where I have trouble. Am I nuts or what? I really do not want to hear "swinging isn't for you" because I want to work this out - we love our lifestyle friends and really enjoy the atmosphere, activities and environment. Maybe I just feel like he has had his fill of "extracurricular sex" and isn't entitled to any more. ANybody out there able to swing successfully after surviving an affair? Obviously this is really bothering me and I have nowhere else to turn.

[JustAskJulie]

A couple of questions that will help...

Is he on medication for the bipolar? Are the two of you in counseling TOGETHER as a couple? If not, I would definately suggest this. You said that you aren't the "talk about it" kind of couple. That is something you need to work on (both of you together).

I know you don't want to hear "swinging isn't for you" but this isn't a forum where people tell you what you WANT to hear. This is a forum where people will give you their opinion unvarnished and honest. My opinion based on what I've read is that you don't need to be swinging YET. You need to get into some counseling and learn how to communicate and work out these trust issues you still have before you continue into swinging. If you try to swing as things are now you are only asking for more trouble. Right now you are ok with you having your cake but not with him having his. Eventually this will cause him to feel as bad towards you as you have felt towards him over his affair and you will be right back where you were previously. Work out the relationship issue THEN swing.

[IndyNurse]

Julie, I appreciate your honesty and you're right - I am okay with me having my cake and I guess I'm holding a grudge and don't want him to have any more cake. We stopped counseling about a year after the affair because we had pretty much talked it to death and it was just a matter of working through things day-by-day and rebuilding and re-establishing our relationship. He did stop his meds about a year ago which I was a little upset about, but I am greatly in tune with his moods and I believe he monitors himself very closely. The trust issue is MINE - and it's more about my own insecurity. Sadly, that damn issue is keeping me from fully embracing the relationship we have now which is better than it ever was; I am afraid of fully letting my guard down for fear of being hurt again. Strangely enough, our relationship is actually better since his affair and he is a better, kinder and more loving husband. I've actually said, "If it took an affair and the pain it caused at that time for us to live the rest of our lives together in a better and happier and more loving way, then it was worth it." (Perhaps he needed to see that the grass wasn't greener.) And when I say we're not "talk about it" people, we don't come home after a night at the club and discuss what happened. Thanks for the response. It will be interesting to see what others post.

[screaminggood]

It's probably not the answer you want to hear, but....you two need to go back to counseling. I know you "talked it to death" the first time, but emotions are like a spiral staircase so when you revisit the trust issues, you're both actually at a different place than you were the first time you went to therapy.

[IndyNurse]

*
*
It is important for me to mention that this affair ended in 2005.

That's why I don't understand why I can't get past this!!!! Grrrrr. It's not him, it's ME!

[tribbles]

but we aren't the "talk about it" kind of couple.

I think you might need to be that kind of couple to work through things.

I am afraid of fully letting my guard down for fear of being hurt again. Strangely enough, our relationship is actually better since his affair and he is a better, kinder and more loving husband. I've actually said, "If it took an affair and the pain it caused at that time for us to live the rest of our lives together in a better and happier and more loving way, then it was worth it."

Healing takes time. Sometimes a LONG time. Keep reminding yourself that things are so much better that the cost was worth it.

Are you bi? If yes, maybe you can find a way to do more of a foursum and not swap?

[cupl4fun]

I know I'm a newbie and maybe shouldn't give advice, but I've dealt with broken trust and I just have to advise your to take your time. Once trust is broken it takes time to heal. If you're worried about this then you probably need more time and he'll have to understand that. You've been wounded in your heart and those wounds need to be healed. If you had a broken leg you wouldn't be able to play football (or maybe dance) until that leg was completely healed. If you thought about playing football (or dancing) it would sound great and excite you but once you tried it would hurt because your leg isn't ready yet. Give yourself some grace, mercy, and time to heal there'll be time to play later just heal now. Three years is not long when it comes to this kind of wound. Not saying"swing isn't for you" it just isn't for you now. My counselor gave me a great piece of advice that I'll share with you "what would you say to a friend in your situation? then do the same for yourself." I imagine you would be patient, kind, and understanding with your friend if they were in this situation do the same with yourself? Are you seeing an individual counselor that you can talk honestly about these things with? If not I would highly recommend seeing one.

[ncmd_couple]

IndyNurse,

Ok, I don't have the medical training that you do, but what jumped out at me is that he has stopped his meds. I'm a Doctor's kid, and I have had to deal with a couple of ugly situations with folks that are bi-polar. My gut instinct is that you are concerned with his "self regulating" what ever that means. I'm not an MD or an RN, but being bi-polar isn't something that is pretty when not properly controlled.

Honestly, I think that your instincts are telling you that there will be a repeat based upon your medical knowledge. Trust them. You have warning flags going up in your sub-consious, listen to them. Your love for your husband, and your desire for swinging are a side issue that you need to table until his medical issues are properly controlled.

Good Luck!

S

[couplers]

Hi, Petra here. Maybe I'm way off base, but from my experience, the opposite of what you are thinking may be the answer. You say that your relationship is better and you are happier with your husband since the affair. Then go with it; allow him to swing and even play alone, but have him tell you about it and face it head on. Once YOU are the one granting the permission and have it under your control it takes on an entirely different feel. That is what I did, but from the opposite side. I was the one with a lover, playing mostly alone but always with my husband's knowledge. He didn't ask for reciprocity and I wasn't about to give it. To say I was jealous would have been an understatement. Not only was I jealous if another woman flirted with him, I was jealous if he mentioned a past girlfriend. (And yes, all the while I had a lover.) Long story short, once during a conversation with a girlfriend of mine where she complimented my husband, my jealousy suddenly came under MY control. I asked if she would have sex with him given the opportunity. She said sure and I made it happen. Part of it is my competitive nature. Suddenly, rather than competing to keep hubby to myself, I get competitive (and tremendously excited) knowing I am going to be trying to out-sex the girl I run/cycle with and play tennis against. Admittedly, I have absolutely no fear that my husband is going to leave me, and your situation sounds the same. So get into it - knowing he is having a good time (even if there is some emotional involvement), knowing that you can out sex her, knowing he is yours, knowing you can enjoy the sexual freedom as well. It is never boring, never ordinary, never like the vanilla women complain; being in the lifestyle is being perpetually newly in love with your husband and having intense sex all the time. Hubby has enjoyed the women I have brought to him, but I have enjoyed it more.

[couplers]

Hi, me again. PS - I doubt that many couples come to the types of wonderful marriages/relationships we here have through "counseling." I suspect most marriage counselors would discourage any type of nonmonogamy. We have come to our happy state through the recognition that people can be more fulfilled by rejecting traditional mores and thoughtfully, respectfully and sensitvely exploring.

[cupl4fun]

Gotta disagree here; my wife and I owe our marriage to counseling. My wife betrayed my trust and I went to counseling for 3 yrs. Before counseling I couldn't let go of the betrayal and a lot of it was my own personal insecurities. my counselor helped me get to a place where I felt safe and secure so I could love my wife unconditionally. Plus she actually encouraged us to start exploring our sexuality. But I beg you don't force yourself to just do it. If somethings bothering don't ever just make yourself that's abuse.

[Tarponn]

Lots of simple answers to a very complex issue, that in the world of psychology is dangerous. Having only one source of counseling is sometimes dangerous also. Information, lots of it, will send both of you on a path that can truly go many directions. To become peaceful within your marrage will need a balance of truths at many levels. One of the most difficult emotions to come to grips with is jealously-trust after it is broken. Time, talk, consistant actions over long periods, the brain repairs one molecule at a time. Swinging is not for shaky-doubting lovers, it is like running an icy log over a raging river. Slip back to your marriage's first couple of squares to retool your emotions. My comments do not do justice to your situation, I apologize.
T

[tribbles]

Originally Posted by couplers

Hi, me again. PS - I doubt that many couples come to the types of wonderful marriages/relationships we here have through "counseling." I suspect most marriage counselors would discourage any type of nonmonogamy. We have come to our happy state through the recognition that people can be more fulfilled by rejecting traditional mores and thoughtfully, respectfully and sensitvely exploring.

When we first started swinging, issues came up and we found a counselor who mostly worked with GBLT counseling but understood we wanted someone with a very open mind.....she was great. I think any GBLT counselor has an open mind and can work with swingers who want to keep swinging......just my 2 cents....

And somewhere here I think I posted a link to a site with counselors--gotta go to work so maybe someone can find it or I'll try when I get home.

[screaminggood]

There are some of us in the lifestyle who are licensed therapists. We just don't advertise it widely so that we don't get negative publicity from the vanilla world.

[sexcupid]

A few issues I saw in your post:

Hubby being off his meds. Yes, they are a pita...but if they help, they help...and sometimes people stop taking them because they are working and they think they can deal. With you being a nurse, maybe you see this type of thing happen (say someone that stops taking BP meds because their BP is now 'normal' or something of the like).

If you feel you have gone as far as you can with a couples counselor, then go to individual counseling.

If it makes you more comfortable...look for a certified sex therapist (AASECT)...you can flat out ask if they are lifestyle friendly. If they aren't, call another one.

It doesn't matter that the affair ended in 2005...grief/rebuilding trust can take a while.

This is my unprofessional take on it: you basically created a situation where sex with others was out in the open...many people might assume that would 'affair proof' their relationship because monogamy is not being enforced. When that (potential) theory came crumbling down, it really rocked you to the core. I mean, the affair lasted a year and a half and was over and done when you found out about it. So, you have a hubby that cheated on you, even when there was basically an 'open bedroom' policy.

On some levels, I can see being more upset about it than someone who was expecting a monogamous relationship (yet in no way am I trying to belittle that experience, been there, done that, burned the t-shirt lol).

Even though you may not be 'talk about it people', after being in therapy for a year, your therapist should have taught you good communication techniques. Use them. One partner being hurt or upset by something and basically being told by the other partner 'well it's only because she's prettier'. Yes, it may be your 'issue' so to speak...but him trying to minimize you feelings doesn't help the situation.

Go back to therapy...individual and probably some general follow up couples counseling wouldn't be out of line either.

Good luck!