why have you rejected perfectly nice couples in the past?

[LikeMinds321]

Goodtimes hit the mark and did a good job of summing up what I think everyone else has been saying.

If it ain't there, it ain't there.

It boils down to whether the "nice" couple also fits the mark for sexual attraction. We've met tons of nice people but nice plays a small part in swinging. Rejecting people who aren't nice, that's easy and understandable. But most people are nice and they're all over the place; still, people don't play with others just because they are nice. You've got to want to have sex with them and that desire either strikes you or doesn't.

For us, I can't give a pinpoint reason why we aren't sexually attracted to them because the reasons are varied and unique to each situation and some people have given us multiple reasons others only one...bottom line,we just didn't feel like having sex with them.

Trying to break down your question into trends and common themes feels way too technical to me, and I can't get into tech stuff when I'm thinking about sharing my naked body with people. LOL Sorry, it just takes the fun out of thinking about swinging. Maybe it's because I've always approached swinging on a very instintive level and so making a list of pros and cons about a couple before deciding to have sex with them has never been my thing.

From what I've gathered from your posts thus far, I wonder if you're trying to break rejection down so that you can suggest what swingers need to do to change or improve themselves in order to avoid being rejected. Here is the problem I have with that idea. I have seen way too many swingers try to become something they are not in hopes of making themselves more unrejectable to others. This can work against them in that they actually lessen their self-esteem, rather than becoming more comfortable with themselves as a swinger they are constantly striving to improve themselves and become someone that isn't themselves. I see people trying to do one more thing better to make people want them more: boob jobs, losing weight, tummy tucks, hair removal, facial plastic surgery, hair color, building their bods into muscle, wearing clothes that they look stupid in but they think others will like them better in them (yet they look so uncomfortable wearing them) and I could go on. Some of these changes can be put in place without pressuring yourself (like waxing/shaving your genitals) but other decisions for improvement I doubt would have ever been done if they hadn't become swingers.

I have to wonder, how happy can some of these people be if after they make some of these changes they are still getting rejected? And they WILL still get rejected.

LM

[pervgeeks]

For us:

1. No physical attraction.

2. Women who seemed pushed into it.

3. Men who are disrespectful toward me.

4. People who lack honesty (such as men who claim to be strait, but aren't).

5. Different ways of playing (heavy in the BDSM scene, or on the other hand people who only want women to play or just want to watch.

6. If a nice friendship develops, fine, but people needing to be our BFF before we play or expect to be our BFF if we do play- uh, buh, buh.

[gnb4u]

Originally Posted by good times

Frankly, I think you are on an impossible mission here. The fact is, I have never rejected anyone that they could have reasonably done something different that would have made me not reject them. When we meet someone, we either find them physically attractive, or we don't. Not only is it highly unlikely that they could have done something different that would have changed our mind, but even if they could have, their is no way they could know that ahead of time. The reason for that is that their is just no universal standard for what makes one person attractive to any given other person. In other words, what I find hot, the next guy might not.

So, while I could list here a bunch of reasons why I have turned nice people down for sex, the fact of the matter is, they just didn't turn me on. As a friend of mine likes to say, some people just aren't in your strike zone. The reasons they are not in your strike zone doesn't matter. Just because they aren't in my strike zone, doesn't mean they won't be a perfect match for the next guy.

Actually, I think if someone tried to act in a way as to reduce the amount of rejections he would get, he would actually get rejected more often than if he would just be himself. Nothing is a bigger turn-off to most folks than somebody trying to be something they are not.

My mission is not to eliminate all rejection from the earth. I agree that is not possible. My interest is to learn more about why couples reject other couples. That is possible.

The truth is there are some universally accepted standards of beauty that are crosscultural and existed since there has been depictions of the human body and those standards have supported by scientific research, ie female waist to hip ratio of =< 0.7, clear skin, nice hair etc etc. So things are universal and some things are preference. Some women will prefer George Clooney and some will prefer Brad Pitt (both of which have been rejected at various times) but noone will argue that they are both attractive men.

Perhaps the same is true of why couples are rejected too. Perhaps there are universal standards of unattractiveness and behaviours that if people could become aware of they will be better prepared to avoid.

[gnb4u]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

.

From what I've gathered from your posts thus far, I wonder if you're trying to break rejection down so that you can suggest what swingers need to do to change or improve themselves in order to avoid being rejected. Here is the problem I have with that idea. I have seen way too many swingers try to become something they are not in hopes of making themselves more unrejectable to others. This can work against them in that they actually lessen their self-esteem, rather than becoming more comfortable with themselves as a swinger they are constantly striving to improve themselves and become someone that isn't themselves. I see people trying to do one more thing better to make people want them more: boob jobs, losing weight, tummy tucks, hair removal, facial plastic surgery, hair color, building their bods into muscle, wearing clothes that they look stupid in but they think others will like them better in them (yet they look so uncomfortable wearing them) and I could go on.
LM

If you are a golfer wouldn't you periodically do a little self evaluation and assessment to try and improve your swing? If you are a fisherman wouldn't you keep abreast of the latest and greatest research on fishery management and fish biology and behaviour to try and learn a few more tricks to increase your success? Why is this any different? If you could learn from other peoples experiences to help improve your success wouldn't you do it?

There is no training manual out there. We are all just following our gut instincts and flying by the seat of our pants. My gut instincts may be wrong. If I can learn some cold hard facts from some digging around maybe I can learn a few things that will decrease the number of times I fail and increase the number of times I succeed. If others benifit from that as well all the better. This is area where the more success there is for everyone, everybody else benifits as well.

[tncinmd]

In your last reply, you referenced things to which you can apply scientific priciples. Unfortunately, this has zero to do with the human condition. If we had people formulae, we'd have world peace and prosperity for all, because we'd all agree on everything.

Why do you reject couples ? Maybe they think they're perfectly nice and are confused also. We all have our preferences and prejudices, which limits our universe of couples. That's the easy part. Then comes the issue of chemistry. It's undefineable and is either there or it isn't.

People are funny. A word, the sound of your voice, some gesture, your attitude and all of a sudden one of the other parties is turned off. Can you predict this ? Not a chance in heck.

You'll just have to manage like the rest of us. Go out, have a good time with yourselves, hope some other couple clicks with you and vice-versa and don;t take it personally.

Good luck to you.

[two42lovers]

What I am looking for is to find out some specific reasons why you have turned down or not responded to perfectly nice couples that are of your desired age range and are of your stated play preference.

By our way of thinking, it never happens. Please don't take it the wrong way, but it may be that you want to argue with people's reasons, rather than accept their choices. (i.e. if only they understood, they would agree...) Short of lying from the start, there is likely NOTHING you could do to get a different answer in most cases.

What exactly do you mean by "perfectly nice"? If the attraction is nice, the communication is nice, and they are nicely within our desired preferences, as you say, we wouldn't turn them down.

After all, it's all about what is nice to you. Our best advice is to be true to yourselves, honest with others, and content with each other. Put your best foot forward in your profile, of course, but the key to having fun in the lifestyle is in being yourself.

Rejection isn't "failure" if they are rejecting you because of something accurate. In fact, it's a kind of success. For instance, you two say in your profile you don't want married guys who play alone with their spouse's permission. If we rejected you because we read that, it wouldn't be something to "fix" - it would be a good thing, right? Some couples don't want to play with other couples who won't play with solo guys. Why either couple feels the way they do is irrelevant, but neither couple should compromise their desires if it is indeed how they feel.

[jnbsmokin]

Originally Posted by VegasLee

Over the years we have not played with many perfectly nice couples that looked good.

Most of the time it is the attitude that they may have. They can be nice and still have a attitude that we did not care for.

I would say the second most reason is people that have way to many "rules" for us. Rules are ok but does not mean that we have to go along with them and play with them.

Third would be people that have wanted to "date". They want to meet for dinner, drinks and other things. We don't have the time or desire for all of that. We meet at the club, if we all like each other we play, if not there are many others there to play with. We keep it very simple.

That is the three reasons we have NOT played with people that we consider nice.

I agree! Also, people can be beautiful, but yet there is no attraction. I have seen several amazingly beautiful couples, but couldn't see myself wanting to have them. And we are into Bdsm--- not all of the time though! And we have turned down those that were too deep into it for us----read as-- only wanted bdsm activities. I turned down a single female, (yeah, a unicorn,), because of her voice. But then again, I didn't have the gagball at that time......lol just kidding... or am I

[jnbsmokin]

Originally Posted by gnb4u

My mission is not to eliminate all rejection from the earth. I agree that is not possible. My interest is to learn more about why couples reject other couples. That is possible.

The truth is there are some universally accepted standards of beauty that are crosscultural and existed since there has been depictions of the human body and those standards have supported by scientific research, ie female waist to hip ratio of =< 0.7, clear skin, nice hair etc etc. So things are universal and some things are preference. Some women will prefer George Clooney and some will prefer Brad Pitt (both of which have been rejected at various times) but noone will argue that they are both attractive men.

Perhaps the same is true of why couples are rejected too. Perhaps there are universal standards of unattractiveness and behaviours that if people could become aware of they will be better prepared to avoid.

I will argue that one! I don't think Brad Pitt is attractive in any way! Not even in Interview with a vampire or legends of the fall! He does nothing for me.

No one person on earth can truely answer this question. It is all about perception and preference. The reason one says no, may be the reason another says yes. Life would be extremely boring if we all liked and wanted the same things.

[tribbles]

What I am looking for is to find out some specific reasons why you have turned down or not responded to perfectly nice couples that are of your desired age range and are of your stated play preference.

I hope by play preference you mean we see no 'red' flags, like impending drama or a rule like no kissing?

Probably the only time that would happen would be if we had already agreed to go to a party and ONLY play together...an US only night out.

We also would tell them that is the reason and that we hope to meet up soon and offer our email so we can plan a different party to meet at.

[rtb111]

We have not been attracted to couples because of their attraction mentally. Meaning it was not all about the outside look but the flirt.

Why is a woman not attracted to every man that is her age, etc. and vice versa.

We have felt at times that one party is more interested than the other. We do not need any drama!!!

[arvcpl]

Originally Posted by gnb4u

The reason I am looking into this is I believe rejection is a ubiquitous part of the lifestyle landscape and I think if were to look into it more we can find some common themes and trends and we can all learn from each other and hopefully avoid some common mistakes and pitfalls.

Please do not just say to "get over it" or to "move on". This is not about me or anyone or any incident in particular.

So here is the question, What are some of the reasons you have rejected perfectly nice couples, of your age range and of your desired play preferences in the past?

I think people are getting a little off track here and not answering the actual quesition that the OP has posed. He has stated this is not about him but is wanting to hear some reasons that other people have rejected seemingly compatable people. I think it is good idea and that we can all learn something from each other if instead we share some of our experiences instead of telling him why he can't do what he is trying to do.

Some of the reasons we have rejected people in the past are -

One very nice couple the male reminded my wife of an old boyfriend.

A couple different times all seemed well untill my wife got close to the other guy and he had bad breath.

We have had several people that were nice and attractive but they were looking for long term friendships and were wanting to do vanilla things on a weekly or more basis.

There have been several couples that were really only wanting F/F play even though they initially said they weren't.

There have been lots of times the female half was nice but the male half just sat there and couldn't or didn't want to talk to either of us.

And we have had about a million and half couples that appeared somewhat interested but my wife did not find the male half physically attractive.

And by comparison there was one couple that the male was attractive and nice and my wife liked him but the female couldn't keep her mouth shut for for more than a couple seconds and drove everyone nuts.

We have also not responded to many peoples emails because their profile pics were gross. Gross as in graphic sex and close-up pics.

Hope this helps.

[NumbskullsX2]

Me - Bad teeth, hairy backs, can't hold a conversation

HIm - Bunions (or ugly feet in general)

People who bring a lot of drama or are "forcing" their partners to do this are not "nice" in our book, so they don't qualify as "perfectly nice couples"

[Pensacolapair]

Some specific reasons we have said, "No Thanks":

- One member fully (sometimes overly) engaged, the other just along for the ride
- Those who consider "Hi, nice shoes..wanna F**k?" to be the upper limit for conversation.
- Those who need their libido jump-started by liquor or drugs.. and proceed to indulge beyond the ability to perform or enjoy themselves.
- One's 'hot'..the other's not, but they seriously think the 'hot' one more than makes up for it
- Obvious differences, ie; stated preferences, play style, safe-sex, etc. We actually read other's profiles and heed what's in them - we are constantly amazed at how many people don't!

Unfortunatly, many people take rejection personally..or perhaps more accurately, as being about something negative on their part. It can, in fact, be as simple as you just don't make the other folk's hearts beat faster!

[good times]

Originally Posted by arvcpl

I think people are getting a little off track here and not answering the actual quesition that the OP has posed. He has stated this is not about him but is wanting to hear some reasons that other people have rejected seemingly compatable people. I think it is good idea and that we can all learn something from each other if instead we share some of our experiences instead of telling him why he can't do what he is trying to do.

I agree, and it is probably, at least partly, my fault that this topic has taken the journey that it has. But I have to say, while you answered the original question well in your above post, I don't see any possible way this can help someone reduce rejection (with the exception of doing something about their bad breath, but that really is a no-brainer), or how it can help someone hook up with others more reliably. The fact is, while we have all rejected folks for many, if not all, of the reasons you mentioned, their is nothing those people who were rejected could have done about it to have changed our mind at the time. For whatever reason, we just didn't feel attracted to them.

The points I am trying to make is based on the following quote from th OP.

Originally Posted by gnb4u

The reason I am looking into this is I believe rejection is a ubiquitous part of the lifestyle landscape and I think if were to look into it more we can find some common themes and trends and we can all learn from each other and hopefully avoid some common mistakes and pitfalls.

My point is, their are no common mistakes or pitfalls that result in our being rejected by others. Furthermore, this is nothing like improving your golf game. With your golf game, their is a skill set that can be more easily mastered with help from others. In this case though, you are the way you look, and your personality is pretty much set by the time you are an adult. Additionally, your preferences are pretty much determined by your interests and aren't going to be changed just to have a better success rate at hooking up. And if you are one of those couples that are too much drama for others, you probably don't know it, I have never met one of "those" couples that did. So, their really is nothing you can do about how others perceive you.

Would I like to be able to emulate the results of some of the "Don Juan" types I have met, that are able to hook up with seemingly anyone they want at the club? Sure, but it isn't going to happen, because that is just not me.

My philosophy, when it comes to improving my chances of hooking up with others for sex is, rejections are not really such a bad thing. The reality is, most folks don't get many rejections, because they are so afraid of rejection that they never ask in the first place. Of course, those same folks don't have much success at hooking up either. Instead, the best approach is to ask everyone you find interesting if they want to play with you, if you get rejected, so what, you are that much closer to the one that will say yes. From my observations, the people who have the best success at hooking up with others are those that aren't afraid to ask. Heck, we are not the sexiest couple to grace this planet, but we have had far fewer rejections than people who agreed to hook up with us. When we do have a slump, it has rarely been because we got rejected by people, it was usually because we just didn't ask anyone.

[gnb4u]

Originally Posted by good times

My point is, their are no common mistakes or pitfalls that result in our being rejected by others. Furthermore, this is nothing like improving your golf game. With your golf game, their is a skill set that can be more easily mastered with help from others. In this case though, you are the way you look, and your personality is pretty much set by the time you are an adult.

I can already tell that you are thoughtfull and wise but I strongly disagree with the above statements. I DO think that there are common mistakes it is just that since this is such a taboo subject and people are always so quick to brush it off with a "get over it and move on" that people may not be aware of some of the common things. My wife too has rejected people strictly on bad breath and while you would think it was a no-brainer it obviously isn't since two different people from halfway across the country have delt with the same issue.

I also disagree strongly that we can't learn from others. Isn't that the whole point to the existance of this message board? If there are mentors and coaches in every other walk of life why can't there be coaches and mentors in the lifestyle? None of us were born swingers, we all have had to learn and rather than just floundering around on our own and learning through getting kicked in the teeth again and again why can't we learn from the experiences and tribulations of others?

Much of who we are in the lifestyle today is the result of a very special mentor that took to the time to talk to me and show me the ropes and impress upon me the importance of things like assertiveness and flirting and interacting on a personal level with people.

I agree with you, if you do not ask people to play they probably aren't going to play with you and that the more you ask the more you will be rejected. Trust me, I am not afraid of rejection. On any given party night I probably get rejected in one form or another handfulls of times. I am right back the next week going at it again so it is not stopping me or slowing me down a bit. However I make no bones about the fact we want to play more and get turned down less.

I also believe if the awareness level was higher out there that other people could improve their game as well and the more people that are on the playing field and doing a good job the better off we will all be.

Think of that like this. We get rejected a lot but we reject others a lot too. A lot of those reasons we reject others are simple things like bad breath or dirty nails or unkempt hair and people not taking the time or energy to even trying to be nice or charming. Those are simple things but yet they occur again and again and again.

I know I am not going to change the world but I might make one person wake up and smell the roses and in this business one person can make or break a whole night.