why don't we have a symbol for SWINGER

[MrkLin]

Yep - that's it! Thank you! Duly bookmarked this time...

[LOL_OMG]

I'm thinking about having a t-shirt made with 'Living the Lifestyle' written on it. I'll use common sense when asked what it means depending on who is asking. There are many 'Lifestyles'. RVing, camping, golfing etc could all be used as a response if asked by someone vanilla looking.

Mr. Omg

[Adam-n-Eve]

I think using something like: is pretty much the same as wearing a shirt that says, "I'm a Swinger!" on it, in my opinion. I think the idea is to have something only people in the lifestyle would know.

Originally Posted by cubnamy1995

I have been campaigning for this a long time. But, we just can't get folks to agree on something. My only issue with the NASCA apple is that it is copyrighted, and you have to pay $50 for a membership to get a pendant, and nothing else is offered. I have a link to a company that does the chameleon, and they have lots of products available, but again, we can't get folks to agree. Maybe we should start a campaign and send it to the swing sites, (AFF, Swing Lifestyle, swingers date club, etc.) to advertise it. That seems to be the only way we will have a mostly universal symbol.

Now we like that idea asking the sites is something to do and maybe we could come up with something we all like and make it work for all swinger

[MrkLin]

Another thing we haven't thought about is ego. Everyone thinks their idea is the best. I was teasing a girl at work last week about the color of her jelly bracelet - I told her that the color meant she was bi, and looking for other bi ladies. She freaked out and took it off right there in front of me.

It's an anecdotal example, but one that illustrates where this can go. If we adopt the apple, how many will think we're all Macintosh users and get mistaken for nerds who think it's all about iMovie?

Let's think about this for a minute - it can't be something so common that it can be mistaken for anything other than what it is. By the same token, it can't be something that the mainstream of society can latch hold of and diminish the meaning of. It also can't be something so 'out there' that the common person won't feel comfortable wearing on a daily basis.

It has to be short, sweet, and to the point. Our new SB t-shirt seems to fit the bill quite nicely....

[Adam-n-Eve]

Originally Posted by MrkLin

Another thing we haven't thought about is ego. Everyone thinks their idea is the best.

I just think the right idea hasn't been suggested yet. We need more input, and more ideas. While I like my idea, I can see that no one else loved it. I'm ready to move on.

So, more ideas!

[knb2004]

I like this concept, as it's something that can be identified by those in the know, while offering a bit of WTF is that deniability to those who are not.

Disclaimer: This is a 5 minute photoshop job by a guy who uses photoshop for photography, not graphic design...

[Adam-n-Eve]

Originally Posted by knb2004

I like this concept, as it's something that can be identified by those in the know, while offering a bit of WTF is that deniability to those who are not.

Sorry, no offense intended, but this is the same idea that has been thrown out there over and over, just a different configuration. Can we get away from the sex signs and come up with something fresh and original?

Besides, many of these multiple sex symbol designs are already on CafePress.com or a dozen other websites.

[sientrace]

Well at least with the chameleon if someone ask what it is outside the lifestyle you could get away with saying support wild life or somthing similar.

To people who dont know it just looks like a nice piece of jewellery
xxx

[twoforone100]

Originally Posted by cuzzeyesaidso

Not to bring any negativity to the topic since I have have wished for years for a way to easily recognize and be recognized by other lifestylers. I have seen this topic come up in many forums and groups on the web and never really take off. It seems the biggest obstacle is players in the game (at least the ones we know) don't want to be identified unless it's in some sort of lifestyle setting like a party or club.

I also foresee any type of symbol or other mark to call our own quickly becoming a novelty for the general public and before you know it, our teenage kids are wearing rainbow chameleon logos on their clothes without having a clue what it means. it would help if we had some sort of a system like the Free Masons but then it would be to damn difficult and people would start their own little groups and systems up and we'd end back up where we are now with nothing universal. The logo idea eems the best option for swing parties and stuff, but I don't see it going any further than that.

exactly.........

[CXXC]

Whew! Such a simple question has generated an amazing amount of energy and interest.

Pardon me for thinking of this like a computer program, but this is how I break things down. Virtually every puzzle is best solved by breaking it down to the smallest factor. Once all of the pieces have been taken apart, analyzed, dissected and put back together, the solution often becomes clearer or immediate.

What are the pieces of the puzzle? Well the initial post asks, "why don't we have a symbol for SWINGER?"

The multiple threads in reply have touched on nearly every reason "Why To" and to some extent, "Why Not" to have one. This is a simple list of pros and cons.

The basic reason to NOT have a symbol is fear of being outed by vanilla society when the symbol is discovered. Secondary reasons range from, fashion, copy write, being rendered useless once duplicated by the vanilla population in ignorance and difficulty to understand.

I can only see one REAL reason "Why To". Those wanting this symbol would use it for the identification of like minded individuals.

The Cons do outweigh the Pros in this endeavor. However, this is not enough to discount the need or desire to establish a set standard in symbolism for the Lifestyle. The cons will only serve to enforce discretion by the bearer.

The next issue in this puzzle would logically be the design itself. Such a design must be so mundane, extremely common and even virtually invisible to all but those in the life style. It must blend in with nearly every social situation. It must be accepted as simply another piece of jewelry. It cannot be flashy, too colorful or extraordinary. It must be worn like any other adornment and not different than other average jewelry.

The Chameleon is nice but too colorful and will draw question when noticed as more and more people begin to wear it. The Apple is the best idea offered to date, however, copy write infringement issues and fear of being labeled a computer geek run high. There is also an issue with placement of the apple. How does one pull this design off and still remain fashionable? The male and female sex symbols are too easy to target and point out. I suggest completely avoiding this.
So what can be the best symbol?

The symbol CAN NOT represent our desires or what are we looking for in the Lifestyle or the levels of interest in certain activities. Are we Bi? Are we Full or Soft Swap? Do we play alone or only together? The list of differences is to numerous to list on one simple charm.

The symbol should be a way of communicating to others in the lifestyle that we are looking for them. Once the identification has been made, the individuals can move toward recognition or denial, based upon the present situation.

What simple, non-ornate symbol, icon, THING could represent this group in such a way that the vanilla world would over look it as a normal piece of jewelry? What symbol could be worn by both men and women that will not look out of place or inappropriate?

Each of us has our own ideas and favorites in mind. This is an ego issue. What needs to be established is that the community as a whole must agree to the same thing. It must be the most appealing yet least recognizable. It should state its purpose while not being noticed by others as what it truly represents. The majority must agree upon one standard without variation. It has to be as vanilla in its appearance as the world around it.

What common items are worn by both men and women? We all have rings. Most have necklaces. A good number of us wear bracelets. A vast majority of us wear earrings. Of these listed items the most common would be rings. The most common ring worn by us all would be a wedding band. Wedding bands are, by and large, fairly simple in design and size. Most are a basic gold band.

Colored rings of any kind should be strongly discouraged as they are too garish and look cheap upon the wearer in most fashion views.
The pinky rings, although simple and easy to replace, remove or brandish are not practical as most men and women do not wear pinky rings.
Rings on the thumb are also not as common.
Rings on the pointer finger are cumbersome and not very common still.
The ring finger of either hand is generally taken by the wearer for marriage and accessory. This finger is taken.
This leaves the middle finger. This finger is the longest and often most noticeable next to the thumb.

My vote would be for the middle finger. A small band upon this finger would be a great method of announcing to the world who and what you are. If confronted by the Vanilla world, you have the world of fashion to defend your denial. Better still, a silver or gold entwined three ring system would make the possibility of discovery even easier.

This symbol placed upon either the left or right hand will be greeted by fellow Lifestylers with a knowing smile and acknowledgement upon initial view. Perhaps a method of questioning from the greeting or the bearer should be set in place to avoid issues when a vanilla would be wearing this symbol. May I suggest, "My wife and I love your ring! We have them too!" If the individual is vanilla, the conversation will pass quickly and no one needs to be outed inadvertently. If they are in the lifestyle, they will engage in conversation and open a dialogue.

These rings are quite inexpensive and can be found at most silver Kiosks in Malls. These rings average from $15.00 to $25.00 depending upon size. In my travels to Mexico, I find them ranging from $3.00 to $12.00, depending upon size. Gold is not as common. I have actually only seen a handful of jewelry stores that carry this design in gold. Having them made in gold will run approximately $450.00 per ring based upon the size and thickness of the ring.

This is just my take on the matter. Perhaps this will help.

[BiloxiCouple]

Good post, but I don't wear rings.

[CXXC]

Not wearing a ring is ok. At the very least, you can be the one to initiate a conversation with those wearing the ring.

[knb2004]

I like this idea, but it is flawed, as is every other idea, including mine.

For any symbol, be it a piece of jewelery, a bumper sticker, a tattoo, or all of the above to work at helping us identify each other it must be one of two things: either universally known (or nearly so) within the swinging community, or fairly obvious.

Your ring idea is good, and would allow plausible deniability, but until the idea really, really catches on it won't help. I'm not going to go out tomorrow wearing a ring on my middle finger, because I figure even if I do run into a fellow swinger they won't recognize it for what I intend it to be. Likewise, were I to see someone wearing one, I'd figure it was random, and the chances of that person being a lifestyler is only slightly elevated over that of any random person, as even with the popularity of this board by tomorrow morning your post will have been read by, at most, a couple of thousand people mixed into a population of 300 Million. That's true of a chameleon pin, colored bracelets, or any other completely innocuous symbol that's been proposed or discussed.

The theme of using some combination of 2 male and 2 female symbols is something that's going to cause any swinger to at least wonder if they see someone wearing it, even today without any significant momentum behind it as an "official" swinger symbol. But therein lies it's flaw, as it could very easily cause vanillas to have a moment of pause as well, and while that doesn't bother me in the least, it's clear that it bothers a significant enough subset of swingers that they'd never wear it, thus rendering it pointless.

So we can have something that one must be "in the know" to recognize, or something that's somewhat obvious.

We can't have the first until someone champions something and gets sufficient momentum that it starts to feed upon itself. Clubs will have to be willing to publicize it, as would websites such as Swing Lifestyle, it would need to have a presence at resorts such as Hedonism and Desire, because there's nowhere you can go to buy a "database of known swingers" in order to market directly. The problem is many of the places that would need to be asked to publicize it likely would not do so without compensation, but until the idea has enough momentum there's no money to be made selling the symbol, thus investing in advertising is unwise.

We can't have the second until we as a group decide to care about discretion a little less, or until our little hobby is less socially ostracized. Or both. Personally, I think sometimes we worry a little too much about what the outside world thinks, but I've never been one to care about what others think, nor would I begrudge anyone the right to make that decision for themselves.

Finally, even if we did have a completely innocuous symbol, we run the risk of it becoming known by the general population. I haven't seen one in awhile, but I think we all remember the rainbow bumper sticker and know that it's a symbol for homosexuality. At first, perhaps, non-homosexuals didn't know that, and it was just a random sticker that some people had on their cars, so it wasn't given a second thought. But there came a time that it was common knowledge, so a gay person who wished to remain "in the closet" could not risk using it.

I could see the teaser now. "Have you noticed your neighbor wearing a ring on their middle finger? Find out what it might say about them at 11..."

So what's the answer? There isn't one really. Someone, Nasca, a big swing club or resort somewhere, heck even us folks here on SB has to get serious about publicizing something everywhere swingers, and only swingers go, or we have to have a radical movement within our own ranks. "We're here, we swing, get used to it!" OK, that's not as poignant as the original, but you get my point.

[knb2004]

As I sat here reviewing my previous post, it occured to me that those of us who participate here could actually make this happen. How?

By picking something, anything, going out of our way to wear it, and when in swinging situations, telling everyone who will listen. This weekend folks who have read this post will be in hundreds if not thousands of clubs throughout the country, indeed the world. Sometime soon, some of us will take a trip to Hedo. We could do it. If we decided to try, and gave it the right effort. And I don't mean wearing a ring on the middle finger and waiting for someone to ask what it meant, I mean being proactive about telling everyone you speak to.

Thoughts?