why don't we have a symbol for SWINGER

[Adam-n-Eve]

For some reason, I was thinging about this last night. If there was a symbol, there would be two rules for me:

1) it would have to be discreet
2) it would have to have a level of plausible deniability

Also, it would be easy to put into any form: tatoo, pendant, t-shirt, whatever.

I was thinking a simple image of a couple on a swing (no, not THAT kind of swing!). It's open enough that you could have whatever artisic license you'd want, but recognizable in any form you'd see it in. If your parents or kids ever learn the symbol, you can deny yours represents swinging - you just like the shirt, tatoo, pendant, whatever.

[bitNtim]

I think the "bite out of the apple" symbol is the way to go. It is the most universally accepted. That is if you think that you really need to symbolize yourself to the population at large. Last year we were with 200+ swinging couples on a week long cruise with 3400 vanilla people and we wore white wristbands to identify ourselves to all the swingers in the group who we had not already met at the pre-boarding hotel party. After a few days I think half the other people on the ship knew what the wristband meant and I actually became a little uncomfortable wearing it. But of course it served its purpose and a good time was had by all. Come to think of it we only got to know people who wore white wristbands. Too busy to talk to the other passengers.

Why would anyone have to signal with symbolism at a swinging function among a group of swingers anyway? Conversation is cheap and effective.

[Adam-n-Eve]

Originally Posted by bitNtim

I think the "bite out of the apple" symbol is the way to go. It is the most universally accepted.

Does that still work? Do people confuse it with the Apple Mac? If not, I'm all for it. Especially since I'm a tech and I can easily tell non-swingers that it IS Mac related.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by Adam-n-Eve

Do people confuse it with the Apple Mac? If not, I'm all for it. Especially since I'm a tech and I can easily tell non-swingers that it IS Mac related.

1. Yes they do. At least I do.... I see Mac logos all the time and think "is that a Lifestyles apple or a Mac apple?" - I can't tell the difference.
2. The bite out of the apple image is trademarked by the Lifestyles Org...

[ncmd_couple]

A younger woman we know was wearing a shirt with an apple missing a bite that under the apple said "Bite Me!" I wondered... Hmmmmm

S

[BiloxiCouple]

The bite of the NASCA Apple bite is on the left side and the Mac Apple is on the right side as you are looking at it.

[MrkLin]

It was mentioned before, and I still think the concern is a valid one. Assume everyone agrees on a logo or symbol that announces to the world that you're a swinger. My concern is that some vanilla people (especially younger people) will think, "Oh that looks cool," and start wearing it. Then we're right back where we are today, and the whole subject is an exercise in futility. If you doubt me, just look at the kids wearing t-shirts with Che Guevara's picture on it - you know as well as I do that the overwhelming majority of the kids wearing them have never even heard of Che Guevara, let alone know who he really was. It looks cool, so why not...?

[Adam-n-Eve]

Originally Posted by MrkLin

It was mentioned before, and I still think the concern is a valid one. Assume everyone agrees on a logo or symbol that announces to the world that you're a swinger. My concern is that some vanilla people (especially younger people) will think, "Oh that looks cool," and start wearing it. Then we're right back where we are today, and the whole subject is an exercise in futility.

I have to disagree. I lived in San Francisco for many years where the gay community managed a wide range of signals that worked VERY well. I think they prove that it can be done.

And I disagree on the Che Guevara example as well. While they don't know who he is, the DO know that he represents revolution. His popularity started within the anarchist movement - it didn't become popular in a vacuum. At the very least, the first few that started wearing it had some idea of who he was. The rest started wearing it because the saw like-minded people wearing it.

Would there be some false positives? Maybe. But, what's the worst that could happen, you ask someone if they want to have sex with you?

[MrkLin]

Originally Posted by Adam-n-Eve

I have to disagree. I lived in San Francisco for many years where the gay community managed a wide range of signals that worked VERY well. I think they prove that it can be done.

I'll not argue that point, except to say that the signals worked well within that community. I mean as long as they stayed on familiar ground and others knew what those signals meant, then yes they worked. I grew up in the SF bay area, and I know some of the signals you're referring to.

Originally Posted by Adam-n-Eve

And I disagree on the Che Guevara example as well. While they don't know who he is, the DO know that he represents revolution. His popularity started within the anarchist movement - it didn't become popular in a vacuum. At the very least, the first few that started wearing it had some idea of who he was. The rest started wearing it because the saw like-minded people wearing it.

This is just anecdotal, but the few kids I've asked about the Che Guevara t-shirt had no clue who he was, what he did, or what he stood for. One kid told me it was a stylized drawing of the Zig-Zag man! The other kids told me that the shirt just looked cool. I don't live that far down the road from you, so I don't think you'll find much of a different result. Yeah, I'll agree that some started wearing it because they thought he represented revolution. But I think you'll be hard pressed to find many kids who know anything about that anymore. It's just another trend - it looks cool to them.

Originally Posted by Adam-n-Eve

Would there be some false positives? Maybe. But, what's the worst that could happen, you ask someone if they want to have sex with you?

Ok, you have me there. But my point remains that if the symbol caught on, became popular, and vanilla folks started wearing it, the symbol loses its meaning. If so many people are wearing it that you can't be sure a person is really in the lifestyle or not, what's the point in having it in the first place?

[Adam-n-Eve]

Originally Posted by MrkLin

This is just anecdotal, but the few kids I've asked about the Che Guevara t-shirt had no clue who he was, what he did, or what he stood for...

My point is just that there was some meaning behind the shirt that launched it into popularity. I don't think that would be a problem with us. I think we'd be flattering ourselves to say that some as yet undesigned graphic is going to be so hot that kids everywhere are going to want to start wearing it. If trends were that easy to start I'd be rich by now.

[Second of 2]

Originally Posted by MrkLin

My concern is that some vanilla people (especially younger people) will think, "Oh that looks cool," and start wearing it. Then we're right back where we are today, and the whole subject is an exercise in futility.

Yeah, till the first time they get confronted by a swinger or couple and then they'd have a choice ... stop wearing it or ...

Personally, I think if it's the right symbol (not an apple) it could work. The BDSM community has several that work quite well and I've never seen them on anyone that wasn't true to the lifestyle.

[AprilMike]

Tonys Sociables (a swing club) used to use interlocking female/male symbles in a square with males in opposite corners and females in opposite corners. I can scan a pic.

[Second of 2]

Originally Posted by AprilMike

Tonys Sociables (a swing club) used to use interlocking female/male symbles in a square with males in opposite corners and females in opposite corners. I can scan a pic.

That sounds interesting.

Maybe we should use male and female symbols in an Olympic ring pattern to represent our group atheletic abilities.

[MrkLin]

I saw a website that offered bracelets and anklets with the male and female symbols attached to it as charms in whatever combination you want. I can't find it now, of course, but if I do, I'll pass it along.

[two4youinswva]

Originally Posted by MrkLin

I saw a website that offered bracelets and anklets with the male and female symbols attached to it as charms in whatever combination you want. I can't find it now, of course, but if I do, I'll pass it along.

Is it this one?