Interracial Sex, taboo or natural.

[Chicup]

Greg & Sheryl's comments were racist.

They used race as a determining factor and implied that white men were somehow inferior to black men sexually.

Not sure why anyone would get worked up about it though. My penis is a racist too, I find most black women unattractive. My wife is even a bigger sexual racist where she ONLY wants to play with white men.

Its just our sexual preferences and play no part in our day to day lives. Her best friend in college was Asian, even though shes not attracted to Asians sexually.

To me it doesn't feel any different than discriminating on body type or height or whatever when it comes to sex.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by Pepper & Drew

I'm not sure where you live, but it's certainly an oddity. I could give you some SLS handles, and I could also tell you some stories that would make your hair stand on end. Our profile now mentions that I'm not a Disney ride for that very reason. Lots of people have contacted us because of the taboo factor.

The swinging world will evolve no slower or faster than the rest of the world.


Pepper

I hate to say it but it's all still too alive and well in the south. I know there are even still (swinger) clubs around that don't allow people of certain races to attend.

[Pepper & Drew]

Hey, it's deja vu all over again! I believe this happened the last time too...

Jeez, people, get a grip. All she said was that she wasn't going to have sex with white men any more. You see, it smarts a bit when people say they're not interested in you--no matter what the reason may be. But, really, what you have to learn is that 1) you aren't going to change anyone else's mind, no matter how much you curse at them or type in caps 2) not everyone thinks you're hot, whether you're a white guy, a black woman, a little blond chick, an Asian male, etc. 3) people will have preferences and prejudices. We all come with baggage. Getting your knickers in a twist only raises your blood pressure and does nothing else constructive.

Do I pop a blood vessel when people say they're not attracted to black women? Hell, no! As it stands now, it's just weeding people off of my dance card. So many men and women, so little time....

Pepper

[sweet_tna]

Originally Posted by havefuninsun

I had a feeling this thread was going to go to hell in a hand basket.

Greg, thanks for keeping your cool and being the polite person I've gotten to "know" through this forum. I think you guys rock.

READ CAREFULLY: Everyone has a right to their preference. It's that simple. And that's all this was supposed to be about. It's not uncommon for people to want to experience something they've never had before, and it feel sorta "taboo"-ish ... sorta sexy and maybe even a little naughty. Maybe you grow up in a household that thinks "your kind should stick together" so when you get to grow up and make your own decisions and KNOW that skin color doesn't mean anything more than SKIN COLOR, it's a turn-on to seek out something different.

Attraction is a fickle thing. Some people just don't think lilly bright white skin people are attractive. Some people just don't think very dark skin is attractive. Certain looks just don't do it for some. And some looks just DO.

This board does not lend itself to folks who are racist. Look at the contributors. Look at the posters. So if black men just do it for Sheryl, and that's all she's interested in, YOU GO GIRL. If some 40-something year old women only want to swing with 25 year old guys and they can attract those hot young hunks, YOU GO GIRL(S). There's no difference. Why is that hard to swallow? (is that a pun?!?)

Can we please drop this now?

(and I copied this post because I felt it bore repeating)

[Greg & Sheryl]

Originally Posted by NumbskullsX2

I agree that this thread is going to hell in a handbasket. I would be happy to debate the subject of interracial sex, but like everybody BUT Greg, I just don't give a rat's ass about it.

For someone who claims to not care, you certainly have expressed a long of anger in this thread. We think most of our colleagues in this forum would agree that you are solely responsible for sending this thread into that direction.

Besides which, I can't discuss a subject with somebody who throws out flames then hides behind his wife saying "she said it, not me"

The source of any statement in this forum shouldn't matter. If you feel that a rationale is flawed, simply so say and state why. Even if you feel that a statement is inflammatory, a calm, well-reasoned response is much more effective than a personal attack.

Greg, this "interracial sex" thing is obviously a very big part of your reason for being in the lifestyle.

You are drawing conclusions about Greg without knowing anything about his history. Greg's swinging experience dates back to college when he and a girlfriend dabbled in the lifestyle. He also delved into swinging with another girlfriend who was responsible for his move from Austin to Denver, and with his first wife to whom he was married from 1991-1998. Each of these women were black. Sheryl was the first white woman to ever serve as Greg's swing partner, and the two of us played freely with couples of all colors for the first four years we were together, so the desire for interracial sex is not a motive for his participation in the lifestyle.

So because of that, and because you like to incite people, I'm going to leave some of your comments about the subject here. That way, anybody who stumbles upon them in the future can decide for themselves if you're racist or not.

You're the only person in this thread who was incited, so if our intent is to incite people, we aren't doing a very good job. Besides, we didn't earn a positive post rating over the course of six years and 500+ posts by inciting people.

"Sheryl finally decided to stop swinging with white men because they have consistently underperformed in bed -On the other hand, black men would almost always leave her satisfied"

"You have no idea how many white couples contact us because they have this fetish for the BBC"

"we personally know one black man how has made a virtual career out of being the big black cock for horny white wives"

and saving the best for last,

"With white men, the problem usually falls into one of two categories. Either they cum too early (after only four or five strokes during intercourse) or they can't get an erection at all (and then make some lame statement like, "This has never happened to me before!"). This has happened at least 60% of the time during swinging encounters with white men. Black men, on the other hand, rarely seem to have these problems."

Anyone who wants to research our points of view can look up our posting history, so quoting us out of context here doesn't accomplish much. To clarify, quotes 1 and 4 speak specifically to Sheryl's experiences with white men and should not be taken as a general statements for all white men. Quotes 2 and 3 are factual statements of what we have experienced and seen in the lifestyle, so they aren't even subjective!

If you wanted to take a swipe at white guys, you succeeded. If you wanted to stir up some shit that would provoke me into saying something bad about black people, you failed. I still believe in the Hells Angels creed, "Treat me well, I'll treat you better. Treat me badly, I'll treat you worse"

We still maintain we did not take any swipes at white guys, and the fact that no other white men in this forum has reacted in your manner proves that to our satisfaction. For reasons we do not understand, you alone choose to take offense and tried to attack our character. We have tried our best to clarify our statements to you, but we don't think you've taken much time to digest our responses. Once you made up your mind that we were bad people, that was all you needed to go on.

The topic of this thread was originally "Interracial Sex: Taboo or Natural?" and I answered it (very politely and without making personal comments) in post #25.

It's regretful you didn't extend the same courtesy to us.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by SCcpl40

What's odd, in different parts of this country being with certain ethnic groups seems to be taboo. What's your take?

We don't see it, this "taboo" in the lifestyle. We're in deep south GA, we play in this region, and it's not an overriding problem around here.

[redeye69]

Wow this thread has certainly stirred up a hornets nest . I have been lucky enough to have met and gone out with girls from many different country's and enjoyed them all firstly for there company then for the great sex .

[SCcpl40]

Originally Posted by Tybee Swing

We don't see it, this "taboo" in the lifestyle. We're in deep south GA, we play in this region, and it's not an overriding problem around here.

Do people separate couples they will play with in the lifestyle from couples they would openly have dinner with in public? Just curious, the fact that it's not an overriding problem indicates in some instances it would be?

We don't think that color of skin defines a persons attractiveness. Look at the money that's spent on tanning beds, the countless hours people lay in the sun to change their color. Do you think the media as a whole keeps the issue alive in this day and time?

It's not as simple as white/black, even among people of color, there's some issues with how deep of skin color you have.

We started this thread to see if we were alone in our reactions from other couples that because we don't exclude others on the base of race, we become excluded. We see now, that it is common. Thanks for your comments!

[BiloxiCouple]

The wife and I had a talk about this and I decided that I would not have sex with white men either. Or any other man Just too taboo for me right now.

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by SCcpl40

Do people separate couples they will play with in the lifestyle from couples they would openly have dinner with in public?

No. We go out to dinner/public places with the couples we meet...all of them. We don't have lifestyle clubs around here, so it's dinner, drinks, dancing in public places. We have sort of a group that has formed over time, and it's a mixed group. We all go dancing, etc. etc.

Originally Posted by SCcpl40

Just curious, the fact that it's not an overriding problem indicates in some instances it would be?

Mr. Tybee was born and raised down here. I've been in this community for over 10 years, and in the south my entire adult life. Since 2004 (when we started), we've met three white couples that turned out to have "issues" about race in the lifestyle. One of these couples is from here (raised down here). The other two couples were transplants from PA and from NY state. We've met quite a few people; we even used to run an off-premise group around here, open to anybody over 21. So, we've met a fair number of people from around here who are in the lifestyle.

It always irks me when southerners get pointed at first when these issues come up, be it illiteracy, stuck in the time warp of pre-Civil rights, etc. Hey, ignorance is alive and well in the midwest, the northeast, and other places too, as far as we can tell. I'm not saying there aren't racists in the south; but it's not as prolific as some would think.

[hamlet]

Of the four passages that were quoted to "prove" Greg's racism, it seems to me that the only one that's even potentially problematic would be:

"With white men, the problem usually falls into one of two categories. Either they cum too early (after only four or five strokes during intercourse) or they can't get an erection at all (and then make some lame statement like, "This has never happened to me before!"). This has happened at least 60% of the time during swinging encounters with white men. Black men, on the other hand, rarely seem to have these problems."

But, if this passage were prefaced with the phrase, "In our experience," the problem would disappear. Even though these sentences might sound like a swipe at all white men, my guess is that it was just intended as a factual statement of what's happened with the white men Sheryl's been with. And you really can't take exception to that: the facts of their experience are the facts.

Likewise, people's turn-ons are what they are, and they don't necessarily imply racism. For instance, I can say that I would under no circumstances want to have sex with a man of any color. Does that make me sexist?

Though it's never happened to me, I don't think I'd be bothered if a woman were to say to me, "Sorry, I don't swing with white men." (I might be disappointed, but that's another story.) I might even consider it to be tactful. We've sent face pics to a couple of couples who've declined to meet us because "Mary just doesn't go for men with beards." Now the truth may well have been that Mary just didn't go for me, but putting it the way they did made it feel a lot less personal. Granted, if a woman were to snarl at me "I don't even touch vile honky bastards like you," I think I'd be perturbed, but if she politely told me that she prefers black men, I can't imagine that that would be a problem. And, judging from the tone of Greg and Sheryl's posts, it doesn't seem likely that they'd ever be anything but polite.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by hamlet

Of the four passages that were quoted to "prove" Greg's racism, it seems to me that the only one that's even potentially problematic would be:

"With white men, the problem usually falls into one of two categories. Either they cum too early (after only four or five strokes during intercourse) or they can't get an erection at all (and then make some lame statement like, "This has never happened to me before!"). This has happened at least 60% of the time during swinging encounters with white men. Black men, on the other hand, rarely seem to have these problems."

But, if this passage were prefaced with the phrase, "In our experience," the problem would disappear. Even though these sentences might sound like a swipe at all white men, my guess is that it was just intended as a factual statement of what's happened with the white men Sheryl's been with. And you really can't take exception to that: the facts of their experience are the facts.

Exactly. And as Greg said the comments have been taken out of the context of the rest of the post around the comment. This is a common tactic for spreading internet rumors about politics, immigration, etc. Taking a portion of someone's speech, letter, writings, etc. out of context to support a third party's agenda. Numbskull should have linked back to each post the comments were taken from so that each of the readers here could read the complete post and decide for themselves. References are always good, unless they wouldn't support your agenda by listing them.

[NumbskullsX2]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

Exactly. And as Greg said the comments have been taken out of the context of the rest of the post around the comment. This is a common tactic for spreading internet rumors about politics, immigration, etc. Taking a portion of someone's speech, letter, writings, etc. out of context to support a third party's agenda. Numbskull should have linked back to each post the comments were taken from so that each of the readers here could read the complete post and decide for themselves. References are always good, unless they wouldn't support your agenda by listing them.

The only reference was to the original link. I didn't link back to each post because if anybody want's to read it "in context", they should follow the thread from beginning to end. I thought it was inflammatory, and didn't want to give it any more attention than it originally received.

Agendas-

A policeman in a large city could easily say that 60% of the black people he meets are criminals, or that 60% of the interracial couples he pulls over are holding drugs, and be telling the absolute truth. A person who works in an inner-city health clinic could say that 60% of the interracial couples she sees have one or more STD's A psychologist could say that 60% of the women he sees in interracial marriages suffer from low self esteem. All of these statements could very well be "facts." He could then use these "facts" to justify discrminating against ALL black people, based only on the color of their skin. Would he be right or wrong?

To us, it doesn't matter what HE does. We don't have an agenda in regards to color, or who we consider as playmates. We're mature enough to make up our own minds about people. We're mature enough not to lump them together because of the color of their skin, or where they're from. Even if we thought it was true, we're also smart enough and sensitive enough not to post on a message board "WE no longer play with interracial couples because in OUR experience, they've all been druggies, criminals, and nut cases" Even if it didn't make us sound like racists, it would make us sound like IDIOTS.

I wouldn't say anything to anybody on a message board that I wouldn't say to their face.

Apparently, "making up your OWN mind about people" on a case by case basis requires too much mental horsepower for certain individuals. Maybe it's better that those individuals make their decisions based on only upon race. ESPECIALLY if it means we're "excluded".

[NumbskullsX2]

Originally Posted by Pepper & Drew

All she said was that she wasn't going to have sex with white men any more. You see, it smarts a bit when people say they're not interested in you--no matter what the reason may be.

Do I pop a blood vessel when people say they're not attracted to black women? Hell, no! As it stands now, it's just weeding people off of my dance card.

It wasn't that "she wasn't going to have sex with white men anymore" that was offensive, it was everything that came after the word "because"

I don't care if she never has sex with anybody ever again. What I care about is that somebody else used "her" words and "her" decision to insult an entire race.

Saying that you're not attracted to somebody doesn't give you a right to insult them.

There are nice ways to say a thing, and ways that are going to cause trouble.

[VegasLee]

Originally Posted by NumbskullsX2

What I care about is that somebody else used "her" words and "her" decision to insult an entire race.

She did not insult an entire race.

I am part of that race and I was not insulted by what she said.