Over Reaction???

[sndman]

I like to cut to the chase so my question to the board is: Am I over reacting?

Please read below to understand why I’m asking the question and if I’m being an ass then lets call it that way…  Wouldn’t be the first time…

My wife and I discussed swinging for a couple of years, more fantasy than anything but actually started swinging about a year ago. The couple we swing with have been close friends for about two years.

Anyways, we started out slow with soft-swapping but moved quickly to hard. During the first few nights I found myself jealous and called a stop the swapping friendship. As a group we discussed what was going on and I and the other husband also met to discuss. What was bugging me was his continuous lusting after my wife. Even during general social situations. All things being new he didn’t realize it was that obvious and said he would keep it in check. My wife and I also discussed the situation and agreed to some ground rules. Mainly that nothing happens with out discussing it first and it would be agreed to by both couples.

This summer we went on vacation, we both have boys the same age, and had a good time. Once the kids were down in the other adjoining room the adults were able to play. During the vacation I noticed how often the guy was not walking with his wife and son but always between me and my family. I discussed it with my wife one night and she thought I was just getting jealous again. Maybe, but I asked her to just be observant over the next couple of days and she doesn’t see let me know. After the first day she noticed and it was not just me being jealous.

This past Halloween things went south. We were enjoying the evening dancing and having a few drinks, as I said they are close friends and we have the same circle of friends. So, I’m chatting with another couple and my wife excuses herself for a bio-break. No problem. I then notice the other guy head downstairs. After a few moments, 5 minutes or so, jealousy starts to kick in. I head downstairs and my concerns are realized. I head around the corner and see them in an embrace and kissing. So I’m a little pissed at this point. So my thoughts are what have they been doing and what would they have done?

So yes, I was jealous for the fact my wife didn’t want to sneak downstairs with me when I asked her earlier but also I feel they both let me down. When we first started swinging I became jealous and I talked to both of them and they both assured me I had nothing to worry about. It’s not the kissing that pissed me off but its that I had a suspicion that I could not trust my wife and friend.

Needless to say we are ending the swapping friendship. It took me a couple of days to talk to my wife about how I was feeling and she is apologetic. I’m having beers with my friend when they return from vacation. I believe the overall friendship will survive. Now the other wife believes I over reacted and I’ve blown the situation out of proportion. Now you know why I’ve asked the question: Am I over reacting?

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by sndman

Am I over reacting?

Nope...

I actually think you may be under-reacting.

For us, marriage is first and there is nothing worth jeopardizing what we have together. So, honestly, I'd end the friendship period. And then I would work on rebuilding the trust factor with your wife.

As is always the case with these stories, we are only getting a part of the story - but based on what you have written, I'd be damned if I'd trust him with my wife again - or my wife with him again for that matter. I doubt, if he and she are willing to sneak around and suck face in the basement at a Halloween party, that they are really going to go "straight" just because you put the kibosh on "sanctioned" play time...

Spoomonkey

[Lovethenights]

You're not over-reacting. His refusal to honor your stated boundaries indicates he's not a good lifestyle play partner for you and your wife. Furthermore, your wife's role in this situation needs opened up, as she's either being a passive helpless pawn to this man's attentions (truly pitiful) or she's complicitous and enjoys his attentions and sexual ministrations. How much fun you're having with his wife may enter into the picture, but not without the continuation of any relationship with the couple posing a threat to your marriage.

[Reef99]

I agree with all of the above. Sorry you had to go through this.

[fun4Ds]

I'm going to have to agree totally with spoomonkey. we have learned though that sometimes other couples are just different than us. dosent make them wrong or us wright just different. we were involved with a couple that to be honest, the husband placed Mrs.fun above his own wife.and yes had some ways of over stepping our boundaries.actually Mrs fun saw it first and i was being a little naive i guess.as it turned out they were not to happy with each other and used each other to find better sex than they were having at home. they were honest with each other to a point. but we felt used in a way. as for the kissing while you were not around Mrs.fun has had that happen and felt pretty uncomfortable about it. but it does happen. even to a point that when we have sex with a couple they seem to want to overlook our (we only play together rules). an example, while visiting a couple we have played with and i wasn't there they push the "lets have a 3 some" Mrs.fun stands to our rules that we only play together, but on the other hand i can see the temptation while I'm not there. but none the less they stepped on me in a way. i found it strange i guess that they wouldn't have just called me or something and just been up front instead of placing Mrs.fun on the spot. we moved on. we cant say they are wrong just different than what we look for.

[JTcamp05]

Your jeleous cause they were kissing when you were not there..... hmmmmm but its ok if you were there, cause you have to be in control!!

Your wife did this willingly.... so why is the problem all about this guy, your fustration as I see lands on your wife.....

You have known this couple for a long time, spending vacations together, yet you worry about kissing..... I don't get it...... mabye your not cut out for this activity, nothing wrong with that......

[fun4Ds]

Originally Posted by JTcamp05

Your jeleous cause they were kissing when you were not there..... hmmmmm but its ok if you were there, cause you have to be in control!!

Your wife did this willingly.... so why is the problem all about this guy, your fustration as I see lands on your wife.....

You have known this couple for a long time, spending vacations together, yet you worry about kissing..... I don't get it...... mabye your not cut out for this activity, nothing wrong with that......

would you have the same responce if it were the wife who started this thread?

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by sndman

The couple we swing with have been close friends for about two years.

Anyways, we started out slow with soft-swapping but moved quickly to hard. During the first few nights I found myself jealous and called a stop the swapping friendship...What was bugging me was his continuous lusting after my wife. Even during general social situations. All things being new he didn’t realize it was that obvious and said he would keep it in check.

From the start you found yourself jealous. From reading your complete post I think you are a jealous man by nature and jealousy will continue to be a problem for you if you continue to swing with anyone.

My wife and I also discussed the situation and agreed to some ground rules. Mainly that nothing happens with out discussing it first and it would be agreed to by both couples.

This is a vague statement in this story. "Nothing happens" seems later explained to mean "no kissing if I'm not watching you" because this is the event that you mentioned in your post that seemed to push you to the breaking point.

We were enjoying the evening dancing and having a few drinks, as I said they are close friends and we have the same circle of friends. So, I’m chatting with another couple and my wife excuses herself for a bio-break. No problem. I then notice the other guy head downstairs. After a few moments, 5 minutes or so, jealousy starts to kick in. I head downstairs and my concerns are realized. I head around the corner and see them in an embrace and kissing. So I’m a little pissed at this point. So my thoughts are what have they been doing and what would they have done?

Were you at a swinger club? I think what environment you were in is important to know. Was everyone you were socializing with swingers?

When Mr LM and I have been to swinger clubs or out socializing with swinger friends we often get separated and may find ourselves smooching for a minute with one of our sexy friends or playmates. We both love spontaneous moments when someone gives us a kiss. I can't imagine stopping a guy from kissing me - who I wanted to be kissed by - and saying "Wait! My husband has to approve this first and watch you kiss me! I'll be right back!"

Maybe your rule "nothing happens without discussing it first" is much too all encompassing. Maybe it is your attempt to be in control of everything all the time, and if you think that is possible to do, I think you will forever be frustrated and jealous.

I don't have your wife's or your buddy's input in all this. Maybe they're just having fun and not trying to put anything over you. Maybe your buddy acts like a drooling dog when he's around your wife and he shows no class...but your wife enjoys his attention anyway. Since their enjoyment of each other is bugging you then it's time to break the play off. But I think at this point you'll have a hard time cooling things down with your longtime friend. He'll probably still feel "lust" for your wife. And that word "lust" is again too vague a reference for me, since I don't know what that means to you I can only say that, as a swinger, I like the word myself.

Maybe I'll add more later. But I have to head out the door.

LM

[WesternSwing]

I think Spoo called it the way it is and said it very succinctly. You need to end the friendship all together and work on your relationship with your wife. Either they are developing a real, loving relationship together, they are both caught-up in the newness of being appreciated by someone other than their spouse (which can be real high), or they simply do not understand, recognize or care about boundaries you've set-up as a couple and a foursome.

Mr. WS

[lovinher]

Unless all their freinds are swingers, let's not forget this was not a swinger party. I'm with Spoo. Just because we may be swingers doesn't mean we would go sneaking around kissing past or present play partners whenever our spouse isn't around. They had a rule, regardless of how petty some might think it to be and that rule was ignored in a deceptive way. I think you sensed something and your senses were right.
Why would somebody risk being caught by other guests at a party with vanilla freinds? I don't put all of this on just the guy. Unless the guy grabbed her and smashed his face into her's she is just a guilty.
Whatever, the trust is gone and it's time put the brakes on until you both are on the same page.
Not everybody is an "anything goes" swinger.

would you have the same responce if it were the wife who started this thread?

Good question and I think we all know the answer.

[2fromNM]

Add another + to the purple monkey's post. Once again, he hit the nail right on the head. I wonder if he ever misses?

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

Maybe your rule "nothing happens without discussing it first" is much too all encompassing.

I agree. It may be, but I am not sure that is the point. The point is it was their rule, it had been discussed and apparently readdressed a time or two. His wife and the other husband understood it, apparently acknowledged it and then broke it.

The lifestyle is all about re-visiting rules and changing them as you evolve in the lifestyle. I know a lot of our old "sacred" rules are getting seriously revised lately because of who we are as a couple and who our friends have proven to be. We have found that our rules, ultimately, were not about a mistrust of each other, but a mistrust of the people we might run in to. Now - we have friends we trust, which makes us more open to a lot of ideas.

That said - if Mrs Spoo had simply taken it upon herself to play out of bounds - after we had both clearly established the boundaries, there'd be at the very least a long discussion and perhaps some damaged trust.

In this case, the wife and the friend stepped over a line that - based on what has been posted - was very clearly drawn in the sand.

Spoomonkey

[des1re06]

I've tried looking at this from both sides of the issue, his and hers. I'm going to answer from a woman's perspective.

First, these are long-time playmates, not new to you or her.

Questions I asked myself, if I were you:

Did you have a firm rule, even if at a house party that we do nothing without the other there watching?

See this is hard for me because we're not actually having a conversation and can't get both sides.

We've been swinging for a year, and I have no issues if hubby kisses someone else, or even goes off in another room and has sex, if we're at a party with our regular playmates. We do our own thing at parties, and I'm not shackled to his side. You felt jealous when she was gone just 5 minutes??

So, I guess I would need to hear both sides of the issue before I could let you know about the overacting. I'm sensing a bit of jealousy/control issues. From a woman's perspective, I really dislike being controlled.

My only advice: Step back and talk about what's bothering you with your wife. I don't think we would end a good relationship with another couple over this though.

Mrs. D

[bdrcc1]

I don't care who my wife kisses and the same for her. But I think this is a trust thing and must be delt with.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by des1re06

From a woman's perspective, I really dislike being controlled.

I don't think it is about control, it is about respect.

Over the few years we have been in swinging we have gone from having a long list of rigid rules (all discussed and agreed upon) to having one simple rule: respect. I know what would hurt my wife, and I choose not to do that. Conversely, Mrs Spoo knows what would hurt me - we talk about everything - and she chooses not to do it.

Could she go up to a room with a man she really wanted to be with? Of course, she could - regardless of what I might have to say about it. I don't own her or control her. However, it would hurt me and damage our relationship. So she doesn't do that. She respects me and values what we have.

I agree, we are not having a conversation with all the sides involved and that makes whatever advice we might give very one-sided. But we can't fill in the blanks. The basic question is - did they establish the boundaries? Yes, based on what the OP wrote. Did the wife and the husband cross them? Yes - again based on what is written.

To me, that shows a fundamental lack of respect for the OP and his wishes, desires, feelings and comfort zones. And as we all know - in the lifestyle you have to run at the pace of the slower partner.

Spoomonkey