Outed by a friend, can't trust him now

[daisy girl]

We have been swinging for about a year and hubby finally told one of his good friends about us. We both thought long and hard about this. We are very private and respect our friends and their privacy as well.

We had a party this weekend and invited a few couples...some vanilla, some not. Everyone knew that this was a vanilla party. So...during the party, the "good friend" told his mother about us. His mother is tres cool and I suspect that she has dabbled in...well, anyway, she was fine with the information. However, hubby and I are annoyed. The friend said that he did it because his mother kept asking questions about us and he didn't want to lie to her. I believe that he just couldn't resist. By the way, this friend has known for about eight months and has always respected our privacy.

By the way, this same friend can't tell his wife because she is very conservative and would "forbid" him from hanging out with us. I find this whole situation distasteful and will find it very difficult to trust him again. In fact, I am not sure how much I want him in our lives. I am definitely going to write about this in my blog . Thoughts??

[MoonLightKiss]

Originally Posted by daisy girl

We have been swinging for about a year and hubby finally told one of his good friends about us. We both thought long and hard about this. We are very private and respect our friends and their privacy as well.

We had a party this weekend and invited a few couples...some vanilla, some not. Everyone knew that this was a vanilla party. So...during the party, the "good friend" told his mother about us. His mother is tres cool and I suspect that she has dabbled in...well, anyway, she was fine with the information. However, hubby and I are annoyed. The friend said that he did it because his mother kept asking questions about us and he didn't want to lie to her. I believe that he just couldn't resist. By the way, this friend has known for about eight months and has always respected our privacy.

By the way, this same friend can't tell his wife because she is very conservative and would "forbid" him from hanging out with us. I find this whole situation distasteful and will find it very difficult to trust him again. In fact, I am not sure how much I want him in our lives. I am definitely going to write about this in my blog . Thoughts??

Well, my thoughts are these are the risks you take when you tell your friends. Probably not what you wanted to hear though. But I also understand your point. You both told him, probably with strict intructions to never tell a soul, and even if the person he told is okay with it, the bottom line is he said he wouldn't and then did. So yes, I understand how you will have trouble trusting him again.

We have outed ourselves to a few select vanilla friends. When we decided to do this, it was because we (or rather my husband) had known them 15 years. After that kind of time, I felt confident enough that they would not breathe a word if they were asked not to. And to this day I truly feel they never have said anything, most especially to their parents who are as conservative as they come.

But I do live by some basic beliefs when it comes to divulging information.
1. I NEVER reveal something to one person and expect them to keep it from their spouse. Spouses are often times our sounding board. Or I believe they should be. Spouses should be the one person you can turn to when the whole world hates you. I do not expect them to keep things from their spouse, I do this because of #2
2. I do not keep secrets from my spouse. PERIOD. So if a friend asks me to not tell a soul, I make sure they understand that does not include my husband. I don't keep secrets from him, because sometimes friends tell you things that make you worry too. And my husband can always tell when I am worried and it worries him if I am not open with him. All of our friends are aware that we have this level of communication and they know they can trust him to never repeat anything I say to him. In fact, many of our friends will come to us to ask us both because they can get a female and male perspective and only tell the story once. However, there are times when its a "female" problem, and I know its not something my husband wants to discuss. For example, a girlfriends complications with her period. At that point, I just tell him its female issues with "Whomever" and he doesn't push. He doesn't really want to know anyway.

[THB]

You have to be careful who you allow to know this kind of information. We have disclosed our predilections to one vanilla friend who has been totally respectful of our privacy. Other vanilla friends don't get that level of information, as much because it would disrupt their world as much as leaking it would disrupt ours. You just have to think it through carefully. As for your friend, his weak resolve is a character flaw. Rethink that relationship. Good luck.

[sexyshelby]

Who the hell would tell their mother something that they wouldn't tell their spouse?

I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you. Definitely sucks. But that's the risk we take when we tell others our secrets. If it were me, I probably would give him one chance to explain himself and then write him off for good. I don't need people around that I can't trust.

~SS

[rpu3]

After I over-thought the situation and perhaps blogged about it, we'd likely be having a talk about it, because in a sense, your friends may have been outed by default. Personally, I'd call that talk an interrogation, because I'd sure want to know the whys and hows of his action, and to figure out how I was so wrong about a person I thought I knew. That's just me, though.

I'd be tempted to cut him out, but I would need to wait until after I/we spoke with him.

[Tybee Swing]

Hi Daisy,

I'm curious -- what was the reason your husband wanted to tell this one particular friend? Your post said that you are private people, and you both thought long and hard about this. Why this friend, and why tell him?

We're private and discreet people, too. I'm not tempted at all to tell any vanilla friends, it just seems too unpredictable how they'd react, and who they might eventually leak it to. You have to admit, containing a juicy fact like this indefinitely/permanently would be very difficult for most vanillas.

We've been outed by indiscreet swingers - it's happened a couple of times. If swingers can't keep their traps shut, I'm not inclined to tell others.

Best wishes to you!

[The Fuse]

It is stressful keeping secrets from people we're close to. It's the price we pay for not being out. It does create constant mental tension, which is easy to underestimate. It's so tempting to tell people, for a variety of reasons. But once you tell someone your secrets, they will almost inevitably tell someone else.

I figure your husband's friend probably told his mom because of a combination of not being prepared for her questions, and from not being able to ignore the reflected tension in the room. The line about not wanting to lie to his mother is bullshit, because he lies to his wife all the time. He probably felt backed into a corner and panicked.

If his mom noticed something between you or your husband and a member of another couple, then to be blunt, you all should hide your feelings better or stop mixing vanillas and non-vanillas. I know this is not the "fun" answer, but are you more interested in being discreet or in a little additional turn-on? Sorry if I sound harsh, but I don't like the situation at all.

Personally, I am reluctant to introduce my playmates to vanilla friends, because I cannot keep a poker face around some people. I've been tempted to have a mixture of people over for a party, because all involved are quality people. But now I'm on the "don't mix swingers with vanilla friends, or with family" side of that fence. It's not worth the risk.

Recently, I told a vanilla friend about Mr. Fuse and me. This friend moved most of the way across the country years ago and doesn't really keep in contact with anyone else from this area. Even so, I regret telling him. Any release or exhilaration I felt quickly went away, and now... he just knows. He could out us anytime he wanted. He wouldn't want to hurt us, but he might let it slip at some point.

As far as your husband's relationship with his friend, I think many people are too quick to say "throw the bastard out" when they are not in the situation themselves. He betrayed your husband's trust, your implied trust, and now knows things about others in the room. (I'll go out on a limb and say I bet they wish it weren't so.)

So, your husband knows he cannot absolutely trust his friend with these secrets. Is that a reason to throw away the friendship? I doubt it. He should just be aware of that friend's limitations in the future and act accordingly. As to whether you want the friend in your lives, that's between you and your husband, since he's your husband's friend. Just keep in mind that the friend has been keeping something from his wife in order to keep you in his life, and he didn't ask to be put in that position either. Sometimes we all put up with things we'd rather not, to gain something we want more.

About secrets between the friend and his wife, that's the friend's problem, not yours. Unless you want to kick up a storm that will harm people and help no one, my opinion is that you shouldn't go there except in your own thoughts.

[Additude]

1. Your friend was wrong for telling his mother; or telling anybody. "I don't Know" is not really a lie. It can also be a polite way of telling someone it's none of their business.

2. What ever course of action you take is rightfully yours. Short of physical violence of course.

3. If you have to debate over wether or not to tell someone about your "Stuff" then don't tell them.

Sorry to hear you found out you couldn't trust a friend. Hopefully the mother will not pass that info on "Over Coffee".

[lovinher]

The problem is now you risk pissing the guy off and him shooting his mouth to someone else. Better tread carefully.

[havefuninsun]

Daisygirl,

I know why your husband told his friend ... this is very exciting stuff! Especially in the beginning. I remember wanting to talk to my vanilla girlfriends about it, then feared they'd tie me up and lock me in a closet until I "came to my senses." So I resisted. As time has passed, I feel the need to share less and less. So my guess is that your husband was probably in the "newlywed" stage when he shared this exiting information with his friend.

Now, just because he let his mom in on the secret doesn't mean he knows who among the group were swingers, if any of them were, right? So unless HE knew who in the crowd played on which side of the tracks, he couldn't have pointed and said, "see that blonde over there? Yep, her. She's one of their playmates."

I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that this guy doesn't have NEARLY the same sort of relationship with his wife as you and your husband have, and how anyone on this board has with their mates. Once you've gotten to be tight as ticks, it's hard to imagine a life where husband and wife really ... well ... don't even like each other much. And if this woman would actually have the nerve to "tell" her husband who he could and couldn't hang out with ... well, they've got bigger issues. I feel sorry for the guy, actually.

I'm sorry you feel so betrayed and hurt. That sucks. And I think some of the advice above is good ... your husband needs to have a chat with him (NOT a confrontation) and just explain your feelings. If he's been friends all these years, he is probably a reasonable man and cherishes his relationship with your husband.

[daisy girl]

Thank you so much for all of your wonderful advice. I think this has taught me a lot about human nature. I will keep you posted on this situation.

[clutch]

Hi Daisy

I'm sorry for your situation. It's extremely frustrating, and unfortunately people do talk, sometimes. Always have; always will.

Personally I've almost had to force myself to shift my thinking over the years. (Note: I'm over 50, now. And Gail Sheehy is right in her book Passages. One of the things she said is that when you hit 50, you simply stop giving a shit about what people think of you. I know, that's way over-generalized, but there is an element of truth to it).

However, pre-50, it was a whole lot more important. But, even before I hit 50, I realized that people do talk, and I just anticipated taking some lumps about our lifestyle.

Interestingly, when the relatively few found out about us, most were more curious and non-judgemental than not. In fact, there was only one set of friends that had a big problem with it, and pain in the neck that it was, we got through it just fine.

I don't know if this is helpful or not. If it is, good; if I'm missing the mark, sorry. It's mostly just to empathize and to encourage you that in the long run, things will be okay.

[hmr]

I have a slightly different take on this. In your original post you said something about his mother havind "dabbled in.... well" . Some people have a much better relationship with their mother than others and may have had suspicions that this may be something she had an interest in. For all you know he may have suspected she was a swinger and this was a way of getting the info from her. Plus, he apparently suspected that this would not have caused an issue wiith her, which from your post it did not, so no harm.
Although my mother does not know about our lifestyle, I suspect she would not be totally shocked or upset by the information. She would never have gone here, but we have discussed some pretty interesting things over time and I would expect it to be a nonjudgemental conversation.
JMHO
Mr

[oncewere]

I try never to tell anyone anything I wouldn't want to show up in the newspaper. Less trouble that way.

I also don't like being put into the position of having to keep a secret so when someone asks me if I can keep a secret I tell them:

Your secret is as safe with me as it is with you.

That usually discourages them and leaves me curious but that's better than having to get involved in someone else's problems. If they insist I'll still keep it from everyone but my wife.