A question about bi women

[arvcpl]

Hi, we are fairly new but have been to some parties and have had some experiences and things are going good. We have a question about bisexuality in swinger females. Wife is not that bi and prefers men but she does at times like to have light touch with other women while she is with men but she considers herself straight and is not looking for sex with women. We were at a party and two separate women in two separate conversations told my wife that they like to have foreplay with women but then have sex with either their own spouse or if horny enough swap with other man. On way home we were talking about this and had some question. Is female bisexuality in swingers so common because women don't get enough foreplay from men? We notice women spend a lot of time at parties dancing and flirting with each other and then they have foreplay with women and then sex with men. Is this because men often don't dance or in my case dance well ha ha and don't do a good job of flirting and don't do enough foreplay? Do some women go to parties so they can dance and flirt and touch other women to get turned on while the men watch and talk about sports? Then when women real horny they have sex with men? Just wondering and thank you for you thoughts on this.

[sexcupid]

My thoughts? Please roll out the boulder of salt to take with the following commentary.

Part of it is curiosity. Most women have a lighter touch, softer hands and skin, ect. than a man. I know what your're thinking....duh! Anyway, as far as the touching, for me it just feels nice (one or two times that it has happened...it's been years though). Not sure how comfortable I am at this time exploring it any further, I just like men too much. *lmao*

Also, I have a real issue exploring this issue at a club or party, or even with my partner present. No, I'm not overly neurotic...I just don't want to feel like I'm putting on a show or being put on display while I explore something I'm curious about. I want to enjoy myself when/if it happens, not be self concious about what I may not be doing right, are we at a good angle the guys can see what's going on, ect.

Now, time to hop up on the soapbox (please clear a spot for when I fall off)!

It seems to be more socially acceptable for women to play with each other and even encouraged. Most mens fantasies involve them and 2-20 women to service them and to play with each other. *lmao* And that's ok...however, let a woman say she wants 20 guys to bang her in a night?

For example, you see two nice looking women walking down the street holding hands while they chat. Do you wonder where else they are willing to touch each other? Have they? Do they? What are they willing to do? Or mayby just a simple, "that's hot!"

Now, what about two men walking down the street holding hands? Most people probably just jump to the conclusion that they are gay, maybe think "ew!" and move on.

Oh lordy, I do love double standards.

IMOH (and that's all it is), girl/girl fantasies, play, illusions, ect. are more encouraged and overtly sexualized.

/soapbox


Now to veer back to the OP, obviously your boundaries need to be made clear to whoever you are playing with. If you meet up with other couples whose females are only interested in kissing or caressing as a warm up to playing with the male halves of the couples...great. Just do what it is you/she is comfortable with.

Sorry if I got off on a bit of a tanget,

Maria

[iapr]

Hmmm, I've never given thought that female bisexuality in the lifestyle may be due to male inadequacy but since you mentioned it, now I will have to have some real sef confidence issues

I would imagine the reasons for female bisexuality are as varied as the numbers of female bisexuals but you do pose an interesting question. Mrs iapr describes herself as 95% straight so she does not fall into the catagory of overtly bisexual but has found some limited amount of female contact to be acceptable if not pleasurable. Perhaps both you and sexcupid bring up some possible answers. As sexcupid brought up women are soft and cuddly and have a light gentle touch as well as they also like to be touched and respond to touch whereas guys are..well guys. Maybe a lot of guys just don't have the soft gentle caress that a lot of wome like. Another factor may be women may enjoy the touching just for the sake of touching whereas a man will invariably want it to progress to sex. (men are often a goal oriented bunch and worship efficiency above all else )

You may have some valid points in that at a lot of club parties the women are out dancing and frolicking with each other while the guys are back at the tables talking about guy stuff and enjoying the show. Perhaps there is something for everyone in female/female foreplay. The women can dance and feel each other up and get all hot and bothered while the guys are somewhat off the hook and can talk football for awhile and then indulge their visual natures by watching the gals and then when everyone is all ready they can all get down to business so to speak.

As a male I hate to say that female bisexuality is a direct result of men dropping the ball but lets face it, women are nicer to look at, softer to touch and have more sensuous and touchy-feely natures than your garden variety man. Women are often less threatening to other women (and to their husbands too for that matter) than are other men. If a woman comes up and wants to dance with a woman and maybe even get a little touchy-feely with her it is less threatening than if a male were to do the exact same thing.

[prettylady]

And we smell sweeter too.
I would put myself at closer to 99% strait and 1% maybe bi.
I like the strong touch of a mans hands, I prefer football over dancing (ok Hockey, but I am Canadian after all).
I have yet to find the allure of another woman intriguing, but I can't say I have never found another woman sexy and beautiful and sweet smelling.
I'm not sure you guys dropped the ball with us women.....it is hard to drop something you never really had in the first place.
**because you guys don't know me well I will put in a disclaimer here, NEVER TAKE PRETTYLADY SERIOUSLY** Unless I tell you to, understand!!!
Your friend,
Prettylady

[WesternSwing]

From our experience... First, Mrs. WS is truly bi, but she is what she calls "selectively-bi", meaning her strike zone with women is smaller then her strike zone with men. She definitely is attracted sexually to wider variety of men then she is women.

We have found women that run the gamut from fully bi to just (as you said) dance with other women at the club. Some women like to kiss other women, some like to fondle, some like full-blown sex with them.

But, also in our experience, most bisexual women are like Mrs. WS, meaning they can take it or leave it when it comes to having sex with another woman. It is not THE reason we are in the lifestyle (although it was a factor of why we first got into it). As she says, she loves dick. The bisexual play is fantastic for her, but if another woman is not, or she is not attracted to the other woman sexually (or visa-versa), then no big deal. It's not the be-all-end-all of sex for her. It is simply part of it. When it happens, great. When it doesn't, no big deal.

Mr. WS

[Mrs Spoomonkey]

Good question but since I can only answer for myself I'm going to get on a bit of a but remember just my opinion and my point of view.

First of all I am like prettylady...99% straight and 1% bi. When we first started going to the club I had issue with a lot of the ladies that would take it upon themselves to feel me up on the dance floor or try to drag me out to dance with them. I think now that I am more well known where we go and have learned how to deal with it I don't get that as much. Do I dance with ladies?...Yes occasionally, when it feels right, when I am already out there maybe with a guy or Spoo and we split off. I also see pretty many guys dancing at our club. You don't have to dance great or even good...no one really cares just get out there and bump and grind with your girl (or any girl) it's sexy, fun, and flirty!

I also get tired of the male bashing of how bad they are at this and that so us women turn bi to get everything we want. I like men...the way they smell, their stong arms, their sexy winks and looks. I love it when a guy isn't afraid to dance and in the lifestyle there are more like that then they are getting credit for. Now the foreplay issue...well I've had about 50/50 here, I prefer it but I'm not going to run to a female if I don't get it. Chance are if things are lacking there we just won't play again. :rollseyes

So the bottom line to your question

Originally Posted by arvcpl

Is female bisexuality in swingers so common because women don't get enough foreplay from men?

Do some women go to parties so they can dance and flirt and touch other women to get turned on while the men watch and talk about sports? Then when women real horny they have sex with men?

I don't think so but then I can't answer for everyone. From what I've seen more women are flirty with the men then the women at our club.

I also have to agree with prettylady on this too about men watching and talking sports...I love Football and other than loving to dance as much as possible at the club I'd pick the pool table and game time talk over hanging with the ladies any day. Sorry girls I'm just that way, nothing wrong if your who you are.

Also, I'm pretty much horny all the time and will take a man over a woman any day. I don't just get horny because I am making out with a woman and then want to have sex with a man.

Mrs Spoomonkey

[The Fuse]

I believe that women who want sex with other women mostly want it for reasons that have very little to do with what they get from men, or don't get from them. I'm talking about women who aren't just putting on a show, or indulging a little idle curiousity, or (sadly) the ones who have been scarred by bad people... I mean the ones who crave women.

In my opinion, it's about who you're attracted to... not what you've been turned off by. I think women who are more bisexual are that way because they are organically, naturally attracted to women. It's who they are.

I'm with Prettylady and Mrs. Spoomonkey -- mostly straight. I like some women up to a point (and usually that point is somewhere in the waist area), but I don't crave women. There have only been maybe two so far who have really turned me on, to the point of entering my fantasies, because of that mysterious thing we call chemistry. It didn't happen because I was missing anything from Mr. Fuse or the ladies' husbands.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by The Fuse

It didn't happen because I was missing anything from Mr. Fuse or the ladies' husbands.

I think it is possible - and probable - that there are women out there who are into the lifestyle in general because there is something that they are missing at home. But I would like to think that this would be the rare train wreck...

Word of warning to the husbands out there - if you aren't good at foreplay stay out of the lifestyle. If your wife is getting something in swinging that she can't get at home - then find a way to keep her at home. And then, buy a few books, maybe some instructional videos, stuff like that. Improve the product...

Mrs Spoo's good experiences in the lifestyle have been with men who are pretty damn good at foreplay - so they are out there. I'd like to think that I'm not bad either. My personal goal has always been to be the kind of man that when the playing is done, Mrs Spoo isn't giving anything up

I think that is a worthy goal...

As for dancing - some us do - some of us don't. And I have danced with some brick footed women before; women you just want to tell to stand still and try not to hurt themselves.

Bisexuality is about a person's sexuality - not about their dissatisfaction with men. Men don't turn women bi anymore than "Studly Jones" is the guy who can turn a gay woman straight ("She just hasn't been with the right man" :rollseyes ).

But - if you just happen to be the guy chasing your women to other women by your sexual apathy - sort it out. You'll be glad you did and you'll thank me later

Spoomonkey

[sexyshelby]

Interesting question...kinda makes ya think.

Generally, I agree with what has been posted above, women who are bi are bi because they want to be, because of a genuine curiousity rather than a lack of satisfaction. However, in the flirting/dancing element, it may be true that some women get turned on by dancing with other women, if only because many men don't like to dance.

Although, like sexcupid said, women do have a lighter, softer touch, which some women may find arousing. There was a girl I used to work with, ok not a girl she was older than me, but anyway, she was about 4 feet tall and had the tiniest little hands and they were so soft. She would always touch me, not sexually, on the arm, or leg, or back (we worked overseas and she came from a very touchy-feely-type culture). I have to say, her touch was so soft and calming. It didn't really turn me on, but it did feel amazing. So I can understand why women enjoy the touch of another women even if they don't want to have sex with them.

However, the truly bi women, are bi because thats the way they are, not because they're lacking foreplay at home.

~SS

[des1re06]

From a bi woman perspective, I love the touch, smell and taste of a woman. We fit well together on the dancefloor, being closer to the same height.

This is not to say I don't love the touch, smell and taste of a man. My hubby is the most incredible lover, and engages in foreplay for hours. I've never had that in a man before, and I'm lucky.

So, I for one, dispell the idea that being bi means I'm missing something in my sex life. I am simply attracted to both men and women, and knew this years before entering the lifestyle. I am not aggressively bi, so if the wife of the couple is straight, that is fine with me, and I'll focus on the husband. I never touch without asking.

Do make your wishes known to the couples you meet.

Mrs. D

[lovinher]

Female to female contact, sexual or not, has always been more acceptable in our society and even more so today. So it makes sense that women would be more open about it and more comfortable revealing it. If society accepted male bisexuality as much as it did female bisexuality, I think you would see more men admitting they were bi.

And... as somebody mentioned, Women are much prettier to look at. I know if I was a woman I would definitely be bi. facelick

[gnb4u]

I stumbled across this old thread and thought I would chime in.

I have wondered the same thing as the OP for some time and have enjoyed reading this thread. While I don't think that men drive women into bisexuality or think women are so desparate for attention and foreplay that they turn to each other for comfort I will add a couple observations I have had.

#1. I have seen quite a few women that claim to be very bi but when they are "engaged" by a man that is attractive and attentive, they don't show any interest in other women at all. I am a bit of a forum junkie and I have seen other bi women ripping on gals like this in the forums saying they are fakes and "pretend bi" or "bi untill a guy" etc etc. I guess you only win the acceptance of the Bi-Sisterhood when you only play with the girls.

#2. One thing that makes me wonder if arvcpl has a point is that I have seen a lot of guys at the clubs that I would describe as being almost downright sexually inert. You know they probably dragged their wife to their first party because they had visions of threeways with Jenna Jamison dancing in their heads but now they sit in the back of club and don't approach women, don't flirt, don't dance and when approached by a woman just kind of smile and answer a few direct questions with as few words as possible and just stand there. I know a lot of people have varying degrees of shyness and I am not an aggressive person myself but c'mon.

#3. Somewhat related to #2 I have also seen a number of guys that sit at the table and send their wives out to bring back women like their own little huntress. If this works for them in the end fine, but it seems to me if it is the female half that has to do all the talking, flirting, dancing and schmoozing it also stands to reason that in the end if the clothes come off it is going to be the women that are mashing flesh and the guy is going to end up doing what he did all evening and that is pretty much just sitting there.

IMHO having a huntress is just laziness and lack of initiative and in the end you get what you pay for.

#4. I have run into a number of couples that really don't even allow each other to play with members of the opposite sex. They are both ok with her doining some stuff with other women but they get real squeemish at the thought of the other doing anything with the opposite sex. Since guys aren't going to mess with other guys then while the girls are out dancing and feeling each other up the guys are in the back talking sports and monster trucks.

#5. I have run into a number of newbie couples at their first club party who came in search of a single Jenna Jamison look alike who would join them for an FMF. They each had a huge fantasy of FMF and came to the club to find a unicorn and had such a specific scenario laid out in their heads that they had no interest or intentions of befriending any couples (other than to have them point out where all the single Fs where....you think I am joking but I'm not). When they realized that there truly were only 2 single Fs in the building and one was 300lbs and the other was 55 years old but looked 68 they were out of there and I haven't seen them back.

#6. There are truly only men who only want to see their wife roll around with other women and they themselves have no interest in being with another woman. At first when I came across guys like this I thought they were just saying they don't have interest in other women to keep their own wife happy but in getting to know them a little discover they are sincere and truly don't have an interest. they are just so hung up on seeing their wife with other women that is all that the couple pursues even if the wife herself is 99% straight. These couples scare me because one or both of them have such a specific fantasy that they are pushing themselves and each other into things that are probably an unnatural state for each of them.

Those are just a few of the thoughts I had at 8 in the morning, I'm sure I'll come up with something else before too long.

[Miss Sunshine]

I think those that flirt and dance are trying to turn on their partner. I for one love foreplay with women, as well as going all the way, but i have been sneaky with some women who just want light touching, I get them to the point of no return, if you know what I mean, then the change their attitude and want it all the way, at least a few orgasms anyhow.

[lustylearning]

I don't perceive an increase in bi activity as signaling any kind of lack. I think the activity may be born of the freedom of the environment and encouraged by the obvious interest of onlookers. There are a couple of women I am just as comfortable with as any man. The nifty thing about interacting with them is that the interaction alone will heighten arousal in others. Why knock it?

I'm probably one of those women who can engage in bi play, but when with the male, loses all track of my female counterpart. That awareness is lessened if she happens to be one in my strike zone. Is that a bad thing? Depends on what you're looking for.

If the definition of bi-female is "a woman who can have a sexual experience with another woman and enjoy it," then I am a bi-female. But for the same reason that I won't engage in sexual activities with every man, I won't engage in sexual activities with every woman.

[arvcpl]

Wow, now there is a blast from the past! Thanks for bumping that back up. Since it has been over a year since I originally posted this we have put on a few miles and have had a chance to experience things a little more. I would say that we have seen gnb's #1 quite a few times. My wife has always been a little afraid of and intimidated by the thought of being around overtly bisexual women but now that we have been with a number of bi women that didn't even give her a look or a touch once the action started she has gained a lot more confidence.

We have also seen some of gnb's #2, #5 and a lot of #6. In fact it makes me wonder if most of these women that call themselves bi could actually be called "bi for the guys". I think a lot of people are actually pretty straight but just like to put on a show for the guys. But that's ok if it gets everyone worked up and everyone has fun.