Penis Envy - do you like to watch others have sex because you imagine it was you?

[ohhandahh]

Most men are really turned on watching their wife being impaled with another mans dick or several. Do not in any way think bi, gay or wanting to be a woman. Dont even go there, it is not intended to mean that But having spent developing years physically admiring your own, dont you kind of like it?
Isnt there amoung most men a deep rooted 'specialness' to all nice dicks. Have you ever been turned off seeeing a really big one in a mens shower and have you wished you had it , and appreciate it, and would have looked at it longer if it weren't for fear of being seen looking . There is, I think, a dick washop of dick in general.
And who amoung men and boys has never said 'if i was a girl I would be fucking all the dick I could get' :surrender .
Just a thought. I am no phsyciatrist, dont even know if I spelled it right, but I do cum to conclusions ! Is maybe being turned watching his wife a man's idea of what he would want to be doing if he were a female? He would want to be getting as much dick as a female as he wants her to get, in a way that turns him on to see, and her responces to the pleasure of being fucked that he would like to experience if he were a female?
Just a thought for a thread. What do you think? Is there dick envy going on deep inside men?

[ohhandahh]

And as far as females, does a wife who likes to watch her husband fucking another woman, deep in her mind see herself as giving dick to another woman the way she wants it given to her? Does she share the same dick envy in a reverse role?

[lovinher]

If your asking that if a man somehow turned into a woman would he, who is now a she, would want to be fucked by a man. I have to say of course. What woman wouldnt? I better be multiorgasmic though. I would love to experience that. Speaking as a straight man, If I was a woman, I would definatly be bi-sexual.

I don't think that would make a man bi-curious if that is what your getting at.
Sorry, I know you didnt want to there but the question seems to assume just that. Maybe I am misunderstanding you.

[2much]

Dick envy, or fascination, exists in this man. I consider myself very straight but also very secure and open. I can appreciate and actually can get turned on by seeing a nice dick. Now, that said, a dick is not worth a whole lot by itself; there needs to be a beautiful woman along side it, playing with it and sucking it to keep it nice and hard
I think many guys get very defensive when the subject comes up, something to do with a fear of being labeled gay. I understand this, and for this reason none of my even closest guy friends know how I feel. In fact, even many women may find this odd.
I always get turned on like crazy hearing my wife (and gf of the past) talk dirty about the other dicks they have had. It is clearly linked to this fascination.

In closing, there is this porn site called Mr Big Dicks Hot Chicks - the guy has a monster, very nice looking. I would love to watch him bang the Mrs.

[Spoomonkey]

I am comfortable around male nudity - mostly because I am fairly disinterested in looking at other men. It does nothing for me - neither exciting or making me uncomfortable.

I am sure there is plenty of what you describe out there, but I can't personally relate to it. For me, my thrill in watching my wife play with someone else is pretty much an out-of-body version of what I enjoy when we play together - seeing her in the throes of ecstasy...

I am completely fascinated by her - but not the guy she is with.

I don't particularly think that what you are describing is bisexuality. I think it is probably fairly normal and common - but it doesn't describe my personal experience.

Spoomonkey

[sereneiders]

I guess what you describes fits perfectly the "cuckold" mindset.

You started your post claiming "Most men are really turned on watching their wife being impaled with another mans dick or several". The choice of the word impaled this may be what turn you on the most, and honestly, my personal statistics about lifestylers hardly would allow me to say "most" of them are turned on this way... I'd say, few... unless they're couples playing the cuckold/hot wife fantasy in the same boat swingers do their stuff.

[ohhandahh]

I guess the real question of my post, precisely put, is this. Is there a burried feeling that you wish you counld change places with your wife to experience all the excitement and pleasure she is feeling, to receive a fucking and the attention she is getting instead of being the pleasure giver. (Yes I know, a pussy is pleasurable to a man. Please dont write)
And does a wife watching her husband 'do' another female sometimes have a feeling she would like to be the one with the dick, fucking her, giving it to her, making her moan and groan.
This idea of bi coming (wrongly) into the picture opens almost another thread. First off let me say I have seen some ugly guys in a shower, but I have never seen an ugly dick. I think as in the commercial, dick is good. Man Rule. Not gay, bi, curious or a sexual preference or tendency. Just a dick thing. Some you recognize as nicer than others. Period. Some you wish yours was as big as. Period.
I am sure girls look at other girls tits and think the same thing. And I am sure they also notice each others pussy too. This brings about the bi thing. No one would think a thing about 2 females dancing and exchanging a kiss at a party. I wouldnt necessarily think they were bi, could be, but at least they are open to the appeal of their own sex and not homophobic about how they will be judged. Men are not allowed to wonder if they could become a woman for a few minutes wouldnt they enjoy dick too? Wouldnt it be exciting for them also? It is sex fun they cant experience that looks like sooooo much fun! And does a woman wonder what fun it would be to have a dick, mount a female and drive it into her?
Also note that using words like "impaled", "driving it in", and others are a sign os hornyness and bad writting. Not an attitude or any other interpretation.
So in a nutshell, when you are seeing your spouse haveing a great time with someone else, is all your feelings about just seeing nim or her having a graet time or is a little tiny bit of the excitement you wishing you could be him or her right then?
Does anyone want to open a new thread about the number and acceptance of females who enjoy same sex fun and guys who may too, but are afraid, and rightly so in todays sexual world, that they would be labeled bi or gay. Women dont. What is the difference there? I cant see how a woman could watch her husband playing with another man and still maintain their view of his masuclinity. This is my thoughts.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by ohhandahh

I think as in the commercial, dick is good. Man Rule.

I can't imagine the men of the Square Table canonizing this into the Man Law Constitution.

But - to answer your question (as I did above), no - I don't sometimes wish I were getting fucked. I also do not fantasize about having a vagina or evaluate men's dicks.

What they should adopt into the canon is this:

"My dick is fine! Man Law!"

Spoomonkey

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by ohhandahh

I guess the real question of my post, precisely put, is this. Is there a burried feeling that you wish you counld change places with your wife to experience all the excitement and pleasure she is feeling, to receive a fucking and the attention she is getting instead of being the pleasure giver.

Ummm...nope.

Not in the least. Can't say I've ever thought, boy I wish he was fucking me.

Hope this helps

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by ohhandahh

I guess the real question of my post, precisely put, is this. Is there a burried feeling that you wish you counld change places with your wife to experience all the excitement and pleasure she is feeling, to receive a fucking and the attention she is getting instead of being the pleasure giver.

I would imagine a number of men have wondered the same thing, but few will admit to it.

Since it is a very erotic thought to you, why not give the bisexual experience a try? You sound like you're on the verge of discovering something that could be a satisfying sexual adventure.

Have you discussed your feelings with your wife, as you have here with us?

LM

[luv2buck]

Originally Posted by ohhandahh

I guess the real question of my post, precisely put, is this. Is there a burried feeling that you wish you counld change places with your wife to experience all the excitement and pleasure she is feeling, to receive a fucking and the attention she is getting instead of being the pleasure giver. .

... getting boinked by a group of guys is some sort of paraphilia where the husband has a subconscious wish to trade places with the spouse? :rollseyes

Well I don't think that this pseudo-Freudian hypothesis explains why many guys enjoy sharing their dear sweet wives with other dudes. Wielding Occam's Razor, I think the desire for reciprocation - getting to fuck the other guys hot wife is a more obvious direct motivation.

And that certainly doesn't even apply in all cases. For instance, despite being straight, a MFM threesome is more fun for me than being in bed with two women. Sure, being the sexual focus for two women is incredibly fun and a wonderful ego trip.

Now women happen to have way more capacity for sexual pleasure than us guys. So two or more guys taking care of the needs of one woman provides an opportunity for her to test the limits of her sexual stamina. And having two or more guys on a regular basis, greatly increase her capacity for pleasure. Because of physiology, us guys really can't ever come close to having the sexual stamina a woman can. A couple of examples f

For close to four years, my ex-wife and I had our threesome partner living with us. About once a week my nasty slutwife, the housemate and myself would have an all nite fuck and suck fest. Before one of these raunchy, raw, rousing events began, the housemate and I got to talking about how many times our lascivious, lewd, libidinous, lustful little fuck toy could cum during one of our all-nite sexual marathons...

So before we all got naughty, we asked my wanton wife to keep track of how many orgasms she had this evening. Later when my licentious, lubricous, lustful spouse told us that she had lost count after thirty or so orgasms, he and I were awestruck. That was because my wife's disclosure was when we were only half way thru that all nite session!!



Another example of my insatiable wife's s inexhaustible capacity for sexual pleasure was a gangbang during a party at the home of a local adult actress. This cluster fuck fulfilled my wife's all time favorite fantasy. My slutty spouse fucked and sucked a dozen horny guys, two or three at a time, for at least three hours. At that point, the majority of us guys had fucked and filled my wanton wife's fuck holes at least twice. Except for this one black porn actor. He must of fucked her at least three times. Geez, think my wife enjoy his huge dick or what?

Now contrary to what our thread starter may think, I didn't want to trade places with my wife. Hell, no! The guy's fucking my wife kept her cumming like crazy. My wife looked into my eyes as she sucked my cock. Best head I've ever had in my life.

Plus I had the perfect place to watch her getting fucked. My slutbucket spouse was so turned on, smiling, laughing, moaning, screaming, talking dirty and begging us to fuck her harder or shove it in her deeper.



As the gangbang began to wind down, depleted, exhausted, drained male bodies lay scattered all over the bedroom. Seeing all these spent bodies, some wag commented that it looked like a hurricane had blown thru the bedroom!! And that hurricane was that wicked slutwife of mine. Cum soaked head to toe, man juice running down her legs, she was ready for more guys to fuck and was disappointed when we told her that we had run out of talent.

As if you couldn't tell, I was so proud of my cum-loving wife. Even the normally jaded pro porn folks who were at the party mumbled how impressed they were by her performance. At this and every other group scenes, I really enjoy basking in the nasty red hot glow of my very wicked and nasty slutwife. So based on my own anecdotal evidence, the person who started this thread is way off the mark, Although his beliefs provide us with some insight into his subconscious. Projection I think its called. At least Sigmund was very correct when he said - "Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar..."

best regards,

buck

[wifes_sex_slave]

Hmm...

I can't say that I have ever wanted to be a woman, but if I were, I'd get fucked as many times as I could. I have that feeling now as a man!

As Spoomonkey put it - I am comfortable with mine and seeing another guys meat realy does nothing for me personally.

As for watching my wife getting impaled, sure, I'd love to see her get ridden hard and put away wet, why not.

There is no better pleasure to me than seeing my wife with an ecstatic look on her face when she is enjoying great sex. As a man who will do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to make sure my partner is getting off (multiple times if possible) would enjoy watching her get the biggest, deepest, thickest dick she could handle and to enjoy every inch of it.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by ohhandahh

I guess the real question of my post, precisely put, is this. Is there a burried feeling that you wish you counld change places with your wife to experience all the excitement and pleasure she is feeling, to receive a fucking and the attention she is getting instead of being the pleasure giver. (Yes I know, a pussy is pleasurable to a man. Please dont write)

This is PRECISELLY my point about the "cuckold" mindset, and I agree with you, this have to do with the "bi thing", working EXACTLY this way.

lov2buck said: "I don't think that this pseudo-Freudian hypothesis explains why many guys enjoy sharing their dear sweet wives with other dudes". He's right, however, this isn't so pseudo if you limit the hypotesis to the "cuckold" lifestyler.

Now, this is my take on this subject. It borrows a lot from the Freudian hypotesis, and many others after him, not necesarily psichologists (just to mention a couple, Lacan, Foucault, Levy Strauss, Gödel), but for those who want to critisize, I don't buy everithing they said, leaving aside some arguments on seldom solid grounds:

Not every desire you have correlates with the permission you CAN give to yourself to satisfy it, WHILE preserving your own identity.

By your "identity" I mean the portrait you made for yourself, wich differs from the portrait other people made for yourself, and from what you currently are. So your identity refers to another guy but yourself, in such a way that you can stand living every moment in your life with that guy you think you are. The mind machinery preserves itself from the toughts it could procuce about itslef, by means of avoiding thinking of itself and insthead, thinking of someone else standing for itself. When this machinery doesn't work properly, it suffers and you're in pain, thus you have a mind health problem besides (or overlapping) those problems coming for chemical or functional problems in the brain. The former are psychological problems: your brain is working ok, but producing symbols colliding with the rest of the symbolic representation it made about everithing, in such a way that the mind keeps producing new symbols attemtping to acomodate them all in a balanced system, but failing to do so. It's much like a software parametrization problem, insthead of a flaw in the program or in the hardware. So, in order to avoid this problem, your brain forces you to work with a limited set of parameters, and since some of them comes from the way you perceive yourself, it takes those parameters from your identity, from that other guy's portrait wich stands for yourself to serve this purpose.

Of course, you may change the way you perceive yourself, your identity, but you cannot afford big changes along your life. Most poeple facing this (for example, "closet gays"), do it just once in their life. This is because the change require a huge effort to rearragne the entire symbolic structure made up so far by your mind. But the mind works by following the "less effort" rule, so it's cheaper to work around problems by means of adding few symbols than to rearrange the preexistent ones.

And here it comes the "bi thing" as something you may have, but your identity shouln't have in order to ensure your mind will keep working with the intended set of parameters. So you deny the desire at first, but it becomes a crave, and your mind start looking for a work around allowing you to fulfill them without modifying your identity at the risk of changing the parameters that already proven to do it well enough.

The work around is what you described. Your mind is already proficient on the game of "making yourself change places with someone's else", in fact, it is what it already does with your identity: "making yourself change places with this someone else", so it's a well known pattern to follow wich proven to work fairly well. The less effort rule, reusing resources to feed the crave enough as to keep it in control. Problem solved.

Notice this isn't the only case while it makes sense to aply this theory to be explained. For example, a fairly big percentage of women enjoy fantasizing about rape. This doesn't mean they actually want to be raped, it's just that in a rape scenario allows them to enjoy the fantasy of performing some activities that those women's identity aren't supposed to engage without a major change, thus, there is a "change of places", the one expressing their own desires would be the rapists "forcing her" to fllfill them.

The "hot wife" as perceived by the cuckold, takes a similar place than the rapist in the rape fantasy: she's the one "to blame for" the cuckold own desires, and then, she's the one he "change places with" to fulfill the "bi" desires.

So, the theory seems to close for me. It doesn't mean we can generalize it on the grounds that it close for some cases. It doesn't NECESARILY explains why some other guy would like to swing or "share" his wife.

Notice that cucoldry involves a degree of humilliation. The cuckold mind requires some "feasible" justification for the "hot wife" motivations to fulfill her desires outside the marriage, and some "feasible" justification for himself to remain with her as a couple, and those justifications necesarily leads to humilliation. Even when humilliation could be a pain in the ass, it presence veryfies the justifications can stand and that they're there to provide support to the whole symbolic game required for him to fulfill his desires.

The fact that most swingers guys doesn't feel humillated because of sharing their wifes should be proof enough that this theory doesn't apply to them.

Originally Posted by ohhandahh

And does a wife watching her husband 'do' another female sometimes have a feeling she would like to be the one with the dick, fucking her, giving it to her, making her moan and groan.

I guess this may happen. It'd be good to know women oppinions about this, because we belong to different worlds.

However, here's another example of the way our mind work around things to protect ourselves. As I see, even Freud made his own slip about this in his theories (well, it's a cultural thing he cannot be blamed for not noticing by then). He talked of the "women envy for the penis", giving a pretty weak argument about "being something protuding from male's bodies they realized they don't have" (which brings the question of why we don't have "the envy for the breasts"... when breasts are way more notorious than penises)... Pretty much like what you said about "the dicks" later in your post.

The awfull truth we, males, barely can stand, IF we can, is that we have something to envy from women, that matherhood is for granted, while fatherhood isn't, it is just an act of faith, wich requires women to take a role and a place in society, submitting their sexual desires to the male for him to be able to claim she have no need for other partners who may threat his faith about his fatherhood.

This also mean women don't impose a threat to each other. Once they have a child, it's obvious that there wasn't any other woman involved. Envy may have to do for both males and females with our hability to meet a suitable partner, but once meet, it is no longer a female's problem, but only a male problem. When the male's mate have a child, there's no guarantee that there wasn't other males involved.

Because of this, I say we belong to different worlds. I believe the "bi thing" among women have way less ramifications that the "bi thing" among males. As for us, the "bi thing" involves this envy, the challenge of being with someone who may treat our faith because of his "manhood", since once we can tell for sure such a "manhood" is enjoyable for us, we "switch places" with our wife and admit it would be enjoyable for her as well, making him a potential partner for her who may be involved in her pregnancy.

So, this is something thrilling us, the males.... to measure how well grounded our faith is. Women doesn't have this problem, nor anything to compare or measure. A woman may enjoy switching places with a guy, being the one penetrating him, but the thrill would be related to challenging the social role she was taught to take, without the payload we, the males, carry on along our life.

As an aside, I said several times I dislike to swing with cuckolds, that they may impose a threat and even be "dangerous" for swingers. The question is about how we deal with this payload.

A cuckold use this payload to build up the justification for the "hot wife" motivations. He's being "forced" to fulfill his own desire, and for this to be a forcefull act, it involves a difference of power and a proof of this difference of power existence. For example, the hot wife cheating on him could be such a proof, since this implies it was her will and not his the involved one.

Swingers guys deals with the payload in a different way, because swinging shouldn't impose a threat for our faith abouth fatherhood. A big amount of swingers engage in swinging after they had kids, wich solves the problem (notice, a big amount of cuckolds fantasize of having their wives pregnant from another guy) and reduces it to the "chosing of a mate" (i.e., ensure our spouse will keep choosing us after being with someone else). But in any case, we focus on "honesty" and "communication" as the mechanism replacing the socially imposed one to reinforce male's faith.

So, we have a different way to deal with the payload, if not an plain opposited way. The swinger guy pushes it against the wall, trying to keep it safe and in controll, while the cuckold push it towards the edge of the cliff, wanting someone else to give it the final push to make it fall and lose the control.

[luv2buck]

Originally Posted by sereneiders

This is PRECISELLY my point about the "cuckold" mindset, and I agree with you, this have to do with the "bi thing", working EXACTLY this way.

lov2buck said: "I don't think that this pseudo-Freudian hypothesis explains why many guys enjoy sharing their dear sweet wives with other dudes". He's right, however, this isn't so pseudo if you limit the hypotesis to the "cuckold" lifestyler.

Now, this is my take on this subject. It borrows a lot from the Freudian hypotesis, and many others after him, not necesarily psichologists (just to mention a couple, Lacan, Foucault, Levy Strauss, Gödel), but for those who want to critisize, I don't buy everithing they said, leaving aside some arguments on seldom solid grounds:

Not every desire you have correlates with the permission you CAN give to yourself to satisfy it, WHILE preserving your own identity.

By your "identity" I mean the portrait you made for yourself, wich differs from the portrait other people made for yourself, and from what you currently are. So your identity refers to another guy but yourself, in such a way that you can stand living every moment in your life with that guy you think you are. The mind machinery preserves itself from the toughts it could procuce about itslef, by means of avoiding thinking of itself and insthead, thinking of someone else standing for itself. When this machinery doesn't work properly, it suffers and you're in pain, thus you have a mind health problem besides (or overlapping) those problems coming for chemical or functional problems in the brain. The former are psychological problems: your brain is working ok, but producing symbols colliding with the rest of the symbolic representation it made about everithing, in such a way that the mind keeps producing new symbols attemtping to acomodate them all in a balanced system, but failing to do so. It's much like a software parametrization problem, insthead of a flaw in the program or in the hardware. So, in order to avoid this problem, your brain forces you to work with a limited set of parameters, and since some of them comes from the way you perceive yourself, it takes those parameters from your identity, from that other guy's portrait wich stands for yourself to serve this purpose.

Cool dude! You just re-invented a really old theory about motivation by social psychologist Leon Festinger. In Leon's own words:

• Dissonance and consonance are relations among cognitions that is, among opinions, beliefs, knowledge of the environment, and knowledge of one's own actions and feelings. Two opinions, or beliefs, or items of knowledge are dissonant with each other if they do not fit together; that is, if they are inconsistent, or if, considering only the particular two items, one does not follow from the other (Festinger 1956: 25).

Leon's theory of "cognitive dissonance" had three ways to reduce this uncomfortable noise in your head:

• Change your B.S. beliefs

• Gather new data to validate your B.S. beliefs

• Forget or pretend your old B.S. ain't important to ya any more

Hey man, I'm afraid there are two flaws with your new theory (and with good ol' Freud's psychoanalysis and Leon's CD): testability and usefulness in explaining other things we observe in the universe. The scientific term used to describe and categorize this type of theory is " complete, utter bullshit".

A theory that just sounds really cool but provides no test of validity or some way to verify what it describes, is called a "crock" , as in "a crock of shit". Freud's psychoanalytic theory is the classic example of a "crock". He just pulled it out of his butt - no experiments, nothing except his anecdotal stories about ex-patients. It's an elaborate set of scientific-sounding ideas which are supposed to explain the mechanisms of consciousness and behavior. This is why its called a "crock"

An example of a good, useful theory is Richard Feynman's QED where theoretical results match experimental data to six decimal places. Psychological theories are always tuff to quantify because of the bogon flux field.

Sorry dude, if you apply your theory to a subset of folks like "cuckold" guys, I'm afraid it is still bogus. We know from quantum bogodynamics that nothing can change that aspect of your theory.

Yeah, I know I'm being a hard ass on ya. Sorry, comes from being a damn engineer for three decades. My bogusity detectors went off the scale when I read your posting. Sharpen up your analytical thinking skills. Throw in a little scientific skepticism. Your bogusity detectors need calibration. Stay away from pseudoscientific theories about how our glorious universe works. Be nice to crazy people. Fuck more.

[ohhandahh]

Gee guys, I didnt mean to ask a question which needed phsycological insight into the workings of the subconcious mind and an analysis of my sexual preference. I am just a simple minded male, an electrician, asking if anyone, just for a second, ever felt like they would like to experience the magnitude of nearly ensatiable pleasure many females can experience, as well as the thrill of taking on several at once, which a male cannot do. I never had a thought of enjoying dick as a male, only as females experiences it. I dont have bi thoughts, desires or tendancies. I am proud of my normal 6 1/2 inches. Have thought one time or other I would have been happy to have been born with 8" inches like someone I might notice in a shower. Doesnt make me bi, gay, or anything other than a straight male who is not so homophobic as to deny someone elses dick is a nice one and thinking it would be fun to be able to change sexes with my wife just once to experience what she is getting out of being fucked and for her to experience the physical pleasure the male has in slipping his dick into a tight wet pussy and pounding her ass off