If you could say one thing to society about swingers, what would it be and why?

[driveajeepnaked]

Doing some research lately, I came across a question that really made me think about how society in general views the Lifestyle... In answering this question, I found that I had quite a bit to say, and that the response differered depending on who I imagined the audience to be... I addressed women, then men, then politicials and clergy, then family and friends...

If you could say one thing to society about swingers, what would it be and why?

V

[intuition897]

"Don't judge others for doing something that you refuse to take the time to understand."

While I might disagree with the reasons that a couple might've reached their conclusion that swinging was not for them, I am not going to try to talk them out of what, for them, is the best decision. Because it is not my place to determine what is best for them.

I might gently voice my concern that, perhaps, they are missing some points that should be considered before reacing a final decision, but beyond that, it's none of my business. But for some reason, folks have no qualms whatsoever about harshly judging us for what we do, when all we want is for them to realize that they have NO stake in our marriage at all, and if it's going to fail, it'll be solely our fault (yes, we know you told us so. :rollseyes ). Their opinion will have no bearing on it at all. So why do they feel they have a right to tell us what is and is not right for our marriage, when they absolutely refuse to consider the merits of our choice? They have pre-judged us and jumped to some pretty hasty conclusions. Their reasoning just screams ignorance, but they just can't see how that can be.

This...drives me crazy.

[Concupiscence]

Swingers are more vocally proud and loving of their significant other than anyone else that I have ever met. Unlike non-swinging couples, swingers are vocal about their adoration of their spouses, adamant about communication and commitment to the other's welfare, and careful about respecting other people's emotional/sexual/psychological growth. Swinger's are more empowering about loving yourself for who you are than any self-help book or feminist website.

[NandTfromCA]

What? “We adore each other. We enjoy doing things with other people, including but not limited to having sex with them. We are among the happiest people we know; in our marriage, family, and the rest of our lives.

That’s just us though…you do what works for you.”

Why? "The more you can be true to yourself, the better off you and everyone around you will be."

[Mike and Jan]

They can be best friends and communicate!

I think that only swinging couples have the ability to be able to talk as openly and honestly with each other as they would when confiding in a best friend.

Vanilla couples seem to spend much more time talking and confiding in thier friends than their spouse.

[fun4Ds]

i guess im a little stuck on this one this morning. i cant seem to think of one thing to say to society because my responces would be diffrent to each group in society. i dont think my answers would be the same to my preacher as it would be to my neighbors.im going to give this some thaught today because it is a very good question.

[NakedInSeattle]

Yes, swingers are the most open, honest people I know. Especially in their significant relationship. There are MUCH fewer divorces among swingers and virtually no cheating. They are self-confident, fun-loving people. The self-confident part because they have no jealousy about their sig-other having sex with people 'cause they know their relationship is on solid ground and when the playing is over, they will be there for each other. The fun-loving part is obvious.

Society in general should realize that, for some people, the man-made rules about sex are archaic and not necesary. They can have fun, enjoy their and somebody else's body and still have a deep, long-lasting love for their spouse. Bottom line? Nobody gets hurt!

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by intuition897

"Don't judge others for doing something that you refuse to take the time to understand."

Dito

Originally Posted by intuition897

So why do they feel they have a right to tell us what is and is not right for our marriage, when they absolutely refuse to consider the merits of our choice? They have pre-judged us and jumped to some pretty hasty conclusions. Their reasoning just screams ignorance, but they just can't see how that can be.

This...drives me crazy.

I believe people (we ALL) become judgamental about others after an identification exercise where we try to put ourselves in those others shoes and evaluate how the situtation would affect us. There's nothing wrong about this, for as long as we can ensuring this proccess to be properly done, and the key factor here is the evaluation. To be accurate it is required quality information, in other words, what you said: "take the time to understand".

I feel most people reacts from their own fears when doing this identification process. They say "what would motivate ME to be swinger? what would motivate MY wife to screw some other guy?". The lack of understanding of the evolution required for a couple as to become succesful swingers leaves them with their own fears to fill the void. If they fear not being loved enough they would answer "I'd be motivated because I don't get enough love and I am unhappy with my marriage. She'd be motivated because she doesn't love me enough and she's unhappy with our marriage". If they have low self esteem issues they would answer "I'd be motivated because I cannot fulfill my wife needs. She'd be motivated because she needs a better one than myself".

We cannot avoid to feel we're the world's bellybutton. We born alone, die alone, and bear with the world with our subjectivity. When we make a judgment about someone's else behavior, we're not judging that one, we're judging OURSELVES being on that one shoes.

Our judgamental attitudes tells more about ourselves than about the ones being judged. The refusal to take time to understand this sort of things is the refusal to open the Pandora box in our own lives: we just don't want to know, don't want to face things that may hurt us while not having the tools to deal with them.

This is something that comes along with being humans, it has nothing to do with being vanilla.

I could formulate the same question about polyamoral relationships to the swingers audience. From the posts in this board I can tell most swingers are adverse to the polyamoral relationship idea, some of us strongly advice against developing emotional bonds with playmates as if this were a pest ("this leads to catastrophe for sure", instead of "beware, it may work out but it's risky"). We're not judging polyamoral relationships here, we're judging ourselves, how a polyamoral relationship could affect our feeling towards each other and threat our marriage should WE were engaging in it.

Swinging isn't the ultimate step in the relationship evolution, nor polyamoral relationships are.

We born alone, die alone, and we're trapped in this selfish cage. Some of us strauggle to get out of the cage, to extend our arms beyond the cage bars, to increase the cage size.

Swinging is just another sample of this struggle, we dare to face the same world vanilla people face every day, but after giving up some of our selfish feelings. We find this rewarding. And from this reward, the sex ends up being the iceberg tip, most of the reward is under the surface, it is a very personal experience hard to put in words. I am pretty sure that if the reward were just what can be seen above the surface, many of us wouldn't be swinging. At least, I wouldn't.

However, we're the ones emphatizing the recreational sex aspect as the one defining the lifestyle. It is true, it's the activity we engage into, but we fail to transmit this is the tip of the iceberg. Then, we cannot blame on others because they're unable to see what's under the water.

[MoonLightKiss]

Intuition's way of putting it was so much nicer, that anything I could come up with, so I would say I gotta go with her statement. But I have a basic philosophical belief that everyone has their own "rule book" for life. Some people have Don't lie in that book, others have Lying is okay. I have never tried to rewrite someone else's book, and it burns me to have someone try to rewrite mine.

[RANDJ4FUN]

This is what I DO TELL my "vanilla" friends,
"I have more fun than you and I'm happier."

What's really sad is that it is all too true!!
Russ

[The Fuse]

I'd say this:

"We understand that sex and love are two very distinct things, and that our marriage is not based upon any physical act. Rather, our marriage is based on a strong foundation of mutual trust, love, respect and communication. Standing on our strong foundation, we choose to include others in our sex life as a shared adventure; as an enhancement, not as a replacement. Enjoying ourselves this way has made a happy marriage even happier."

[WesternSwing]

Very well put sereneiders! People judge what they fear, and what the fear is usually something within themselves. It's easier to go along blindly following what your told then to question and delve into some deep introspection that may be painful, no matter how liberating or growth promoting it may be.

Just like the Marriage Amendment debate. I have not heard one logical, rational, or well thought-out answer to the question "if homosexuals are allowed to marry traditional marriages will crumble." Every answer I hear is given from emotion with nothing to back-up the opinion. However, the amount of information against the amendment is overwhelming.

Same goes for swinging. In May the local CBS affiliate ran an expose on swingers in Utah. It was the typical sweeps/ratings crap. When all was said and done it was a non-story. Nothing was exposed. They couldn't prove any harm to society. But they had the usual suspects to support their story. When their message board lit-up with the discussions afterward the channel would censor pro-swinging comments and not allow them to be posted.

The angle of this story is how swingers were leading good Mormon men into adultry. How we are luring them away from their wife. In this story the news channel posted a fake ad on Swingular and in their report they noted they had 70 responses within a week, "most from married men". So is that the swingers fault or the married man looking to cheat? The married men solicit swingers, not visa-versa. But they had already made-up their mind on the story they were going to brainwash the public, err... tell the public and that's what they did. Truth be damned.

And loaded with that little bit of misinformation, the general public forms it's uninformed opinion. Why educate yourself when you can just believe what you saw from the comfort of your Lazyboy?

People know nothing about swinging, but condemn it because it's not how they live their life. It's not for them, so it must not be for anyone else either. They fear what they do not know, and it's easier to hate and condemn then to learn and develop their own opinion. They don't listen, and when they don't have a good argument they can back-up with facts they go directly to the "swinging leads to child molestation and beastiality" angle, which they can't support either.

Okay back to the original question. What would I say to someone? That is difficult because what I'd say to someone that knows us well would be different than what I'd say to someone that does not know us and our relationship at all. When we've told friends we felt could handle it, it has required very little explanation because they know how good our relationship is already. They don't have the immediate "you're looking for replacement sex" attitude because we are already the most sexual couple they know.

If is someone that we don't know the message would be different, more along the lines of what swinging is, and what it isn't. The problem here is you'll have two categories of people, those that are swinger-friendly and those that are not. The latter is not even worth talking to because whatever you say will fall upon deaf ears (much like the newstation's target audience) and you won't change their opinion.

Mr. WS

[intuition897]

WS, would you happen to have the link(s) to that article?

[WesternSwing]

Here you go. I think the video of the actual story is still available there too.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=254254&nid=148

Mr. WS

[prettylady]

I may not have started swinging yet but I have already started to feel the effects of the lifestyle . More confidence, I feel sexy ALL THE TIME. I spend more time getting ready in the morning. I can't explain exacly why, but the feeling is there, and it is a feeling I have NEVER felt in a nonswinging relationship . My lover is more affectionate than anyother I have. Communication is key in this lifestyle, you really need to know and trust your partner. You can't get that level of communication from a relationship that is not as open as a swinging couples relationship.
Did I ramble, or better yet did I get my point across effectively?
Your friend,
Prettylady