Downsides of Swinging (from the vets)

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by neoparadigm

...you all lie through your teeth to other loved ones, family and friends.

Why not just live in the truth and accept the consequences regardless?

Because of the tremendous consequences and the people it would needlessly hurt.

In our culture, which is not accepting and very not understanding of our lifestyle choices, people can and do lose jobs/careers if they're not discreet. Businesses owned by swingers "outed" could be boycotted.

If it gets out in the community, family members (including innocent children) could be shunned. "We heard that Brandon's mommy and daddy are freaks, no, you cannot play with him." (or go to his birthday sleep-over party, etc.)

Dad's business goes under, Mom gets fired from her job at the elementary school (pervs should never work around kids, you know), bills aren't paid, and everyone down the line to the finance companies whose bills mom and dad can no longer pay, are hurting over all of that truth & honesty about their private lives.

My point is, people aren't necessarily "liars" to keep their private sexual practices personal and private between them. We wouldn't talk to our parents or children, or the lady at the PTA about what we do in the bedroom, anyway -- why spew it out about what we do with others in the bedroom?

It's selective omission and discretion - not "lying through our teeth". See the difference?
Discretion is an intelligent choice that people make every day, in all kinds of ways -- not just about the Lifestyle.

[BiloxiCouple]

yet in an act of total hippocracy you all lie through your teeth to other loved ones, family and friends

That's a great quote coming from someone who already has said he is a liar in other posts here. This knife is cutting both ways.

And my family and friends do know.

[Swingercast]

Originally Posted by neoparadigm

I find it interesting how everyone here is bent on honesty with your partner and the true virtues of open communication yet in an act of total hippocracy you all lie through your teeth to other loved ones, family and friends.

Why not just live in the truth and accept the consequences regardless?

Hypocrisy? No not all, we're all out of high school, and I can only speak for myself, but I don't go around bragging about the sex I had last night whether it was alone with Allie or with a whole group of people.

Before we started in this lifestyle I never shared the intimate details of my sex life with friends, family and coworkers. Why should I start now because we've added some new spice? I think one's family and friends can recognize when a couple is in love and cares for each other. They don't need to hear about my cunnilungus techniques, Allie's BJ methods or what we do behind closed doors with consenting adults.

In fact, it would not be hypocritical but rather rude of me to force my sexual escapades onto my friends and family. If they ask, and I feel like sharing it with them, then so be it. But I'm not about to go out and put a banner on my back that says "SWINGER HERE." Just as I am not about to wear a T-shirt in public that says "ASK ME IF I SHAVE MY BALLS." It's just common social sense, not hypocrisy.

That would make a good T-shirt though...but i digress.

If I feel like I need to share an experience with other swingers or like-minded adults then I tell my lifestyle friends, I post it over here or my wife and I do it together on our podcast.

I'm sure there are a number of people who do feel like sharing their sex lives with their friends and family so your question is slightly veiled in ignorance or at a minimum poorly stated. So please be careful before you call us all liars. Au contraire, we are open and honest but maybe not crass enough to take a conversation with a loved one somewhere it need not go.

John

[DBL D]

Originally Posted by neoparadigm

I find it interesting how everyone here is bent on honesty with your partner and the true virtues of open communication yet in an act of total hippocracy you all lie through your teeth to other loved ones, family and friends.

Why not just live in the truth and accept the consequences regardless?

Hey it sounds like we have a new role model here. Thanks for the advice, Neo.

See Vegas Lee's posts and a few others who have the freedom to do as you think is necessary to preserve our fragile mental health. Some of you just don't understand and if you did would be able to move on to other things that we can be open about. I've said before that I thought swingers were the most open of people...then I said I didn't think I could say that...mainly because of our underground status. Minor detail and completely understood..by me anyway.

Male D

[AlaskanGrown]

It's not lying if they don't ask. I don't ask my family about their sleeping habits. They do the same in kind.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by neoparadigm

I find it interesting how everyone here is bent on honesty with your partner and the true virtues of open communication yet in an act of total hippocracy you all lie through your teeth to other loved ones, family and friends.

Why not just live in the truth and accept the consequences regardless?

Because, Neo, this is a hobby for us. We have 9-5 jobs and kids in school. We have neighbours and friends. Outing ourselves means we are imposing upon the lives of others...such as our friends, who become guilty by association, our families, who suffer the shame of having such "deviants" in the same genetic pool, our kids, who suffer because their friends' parents won't let them play with them anymore, and because they become social pariahs.

The lifestyle is very poorly understood by the world at large, and that is largely because they do not wish to understand it. Well, far be it from us to shove it down their throats. Really, it's none of the world's business anyway. We have nothing to prove. This is just a really cool hobby. When our co-workers describe their nifty weekend of golf and stamp collecting, we just have to stifle a grin when they ask about what we did. "Oh...nothin'. Just the usual." <EG>

I have tried explaining it to vanillas...but not only do they not get it...they don't WANT to get it. Pardon me for not banging my head against the brick wall.

[WesternSwing]

I agree Intuition. Our local NBC affiliate ran an "expose" on swingers a few weeks back. Their message board lit-up like Christmas immediately following the story. Most all the posts from vanillas were of the opinion that we are all deviants and wicked people. Some swingers and some even in the poly community posted messages trying to explain it to the vanillas, but they have already made-up their mind about swingers and there was no way in hell that they were going to change their opinion, it didn't matter how much facts, figures, and reality you shoved in their face. Even the TV station was guilty of it, the moderators filtering messages that didn't support the station's angle on the story.

Finally, it came down to "just let the subject die", which it did in a couple of days and the same morons moved on to posting their closed-minded opinions about other news subjects.

In our society, outing yourself as a swinger is akin to burning at the stake 6oo years ago. It's not worth trying to change their minds. Like all forms of inequality and discrimination, it just has to die with the people that hold the antiquated opinions.

Mr. WS

[danni654]

On a lighter note...
John-
I love the idea for the tshirt. And I wish more men did shave their balls! There's just something gross about accidentally flossing with pubic hair. And, I love to teabag (my guys and others) when they're fucking a g/f. Just something about nice smooth balls slapping against my cheeks - face cheeks, that is!

Originally Posted by Swingercast

But I'm not about to go out and put a banner on my back that says "SWINGER HERE." Just as I am not about to wear a T-shirt in public that says "ASK ME IF I SHAVE MY BALLS."

That would make a good T-shirt though...but i digress.

We keep our sex lives to ourselves, too. I do miss being able to kiss my female friends on the mouth when we meet. The US is way too uptight.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by neoparadigm

I find it interesting how everyone here is bent on honesty with your partner and the true virtues of open communication yet in an act of total hippocracy you all lie through your teeth to other loved ones, family and friends.

Why not just live in the truth and accept the consequences regardless?

So, I am figuring out this scenario. You're at work and a coworker you barely knows pass by and, as usual, says "hi, how are you?". Since you're not hypocrit, you stop the coworker and start thelling your story "I am fine, a little tired because the nighbohrs kids didn't let me sleep last night. I am also pissed off because latelly when I am fucking with my wife, it's hard for her to reach an orgasm. I know she's a little scared because she may have an infection, we both are being tested now and on preventive pills, and in the other hand... you know, I am always honest about everithing, I am a little overweighted and not in my best shape, and this may prevent me to properly arouse my wife".

Ok, you're not swinger, nor told a swinger related story, but I bet this coworker will start avoiding you. He/she have enough bullshit in his/her own life as to start absorbing every non-hypocrit bullshit hs/she bumps against.

But hey! Honesty is the highest value we have to stand for, we must sacrifice everything it IT name!

Moreover for you, being the world's bellybutton, supposing everyone is interested in your virtues, your vices, your glorious times and the pathetic times as well. You give it a shit about what happens to other people, how they're affected by your words, if they can or cannot deal with it, nor about the vaules these people have the right to have even when they don't fit yours. Let's tell the truth, who care hwo's being hurt in the process!

As for me, taking care of other people feelings is a feature I embrance from people, as much as I embrance honesty. These two values usually lead to conflicts and you use your intelligence to make your choices.

Among the first feelings I take care of are my own ones. People that doesn't take care of themselves aren't likely to be in shape enough as to care of others. They may burden do it as an exception, but not as a rule.

And yes, I use my own intelligence to decide when the truth deserve to be said, when it deserve to be keept for my own, and when it deserve to be mislead by means of lying. When I lie, I am proud of it, because I only do it when there's another value that I am preserving by means of lying.

I lie every day. Let me give you an example: "I love you". That's it, I just lied to you, and this won't prevent me from sleeping tonight. Nor made me an hypocrit under my definition.

Hypocricy is "The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness." (www.answers.com).

For example I would be hypocrit if I publicly deem other people because of swinging while I hide the fact that I swing myself. Lying or hiding facts isn't hypocricy by itself.

I deffend a set of beliefs and values I have, and try to do it with consistence, something called integrity, and from the same source:

Honesty is "The quality or condition of being honest; integrity", which doesn't mean you won't EVER lie, just that you won't lie sistematically, in a calculated fashion as to take adventage of others, and disregarding any moral priniple in the process (one of the examples for this is hipocricy).

[djjwp]

Just remember... it’s a free country... as long as we do everything "their" way.

We have freedom of religion as long as you do not believe in polygamy.
We can live our own morals as long as it’s not against the corporate morals they force on us or we get fired.
We can pursue happiness as long as we are not naked when we do it even on our own property.

And on and on and on… Surrender

A bit off subject but it's what comes to mind. We are not free to be whom and what we are without penalty.

[JM153]

Originally Posted by djjwp

Just remember... it’s a free country... as long as we do everything "their" way.

We can live our own morals as long as it’s not against the corporate morals they force on us or we get fired.

A

And it is not sweeps week at the local TV station!

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by OttawaCuple

I think NOT discussing the BIG annoyances of swinging is the point of this thread. There are lots of threads about the big issues like cheating, lying to your spouse, marriage failures, etc. It's nice to hear about those little annoyances that ARE common to swinging.

Remembering when I was an active swinger, one of the minor annoyances to me was having to dance "normally" when we got invited to the office Christmas party ... it was so hard to remember not to hike my dress up to my hips and to not sidle up to the couple next to me and start a sandwich dance (you know, a group of people all sandwiched together in a long line, bumping and grinding together)

MrsOttawaCuple

I think this is a great thread. I have always found the above to be rather difficult. Or any vanilla situations that involved dancing or the like. I also find it annoying to have to "explain" where we are going or why we go out of town so much, or how we know those friends in .....

For me the biggest thing is a MAJOR annoyance. What is it that you do online Julie? Internet Marketing.

[Pepper & Drew]

This is an awesome thread! The downsides, to us, are definitely what others have said.

Drew felt really guilty when he didn't want his mom to come to visit on his 40th birthday because that was going to mess up his real party plans.

It's exhausting to hang out with vanilla people, because I have to run everything through my internal censor before saying it.

We have to make up stories about why we know so many people locally, even though we didn't know a soul here two years ago when we moved. (As an aside, I think it's sad that in the vanilla world you can't meet people that quickly).

We have no pictures to show friends and family from our vacations or pictures of our close friends in general.

I worry about getting an STD even though I've been in a monogomous relationship for 12 years.

We used to do a lot more home improvement projects.

I've lost a lot more clothes, earrings, beach towels, tupperware dishes...

Yeah, our life sucks

Pepper

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by Pepper & Drew

We used to do a lot more home improvement projects.

OMG! This one killed me becuase were were just sitting here a few minutes ago looking at our weekend schedule for the next few months and I was feeling really guilty because we've been talking about all the things we want to do around here but we never seem to have time because we always seem to be out of town....

The entire month of April does not have a weekend free (although we are at least at home most of the weekends), and May is half full already with two trips.

[TNT]

Originally Posted by Pepper & Drew

We used to do a lot more home improvement projects.

I had a laugh with this one as well I work my butt off during the week around the house taking care of all those things that need fixing so that we can have the weekends free for play (luckily, I'm pretty damn handy around here). There are still those things I can't take care of that I really need Ted's help with but...given the choice, he will always chose playing over home improvement projects.

All of the other things you mentioned I was nodding my head to also.


Teresa