Am I alone in thinking that "friends first" doesn't make sense?

[deadparrot911]

Ok so i have finished reading a great post by Uomo....but one question keeps coming up....am i alone in this thought. This is the one part that i keep heating over and over friends first. So i'm gonna cut and paste the part from his post about it and what i feel under that. Just curious if any feel the same as i do.

Uomo wrote....
Before anybody is going to consider you for anything intimate, they have to like you as a person. Now I could be wrong on this (and I am certain exceptions exist) … but the first thing most swinging couples want to know is: Do I like you? If I do … then maybe something will come of it. Or maybe it won’t. But if you go into it with the attitude (and intention of) shacking up with the guy’s wife … they will see right through you … and it will never happen. You have to be genuine. I don’t mean genuine as a “tactic for scoring.” I mean genuinely genuine. That’s why I think “Friends with Benefits” is spot on. You have to be “Friends” first.


my reply....
I wonder how many swingers take this view or if maybe i just don't belong here. I share most of the ideas from the original post except for this part. I always hear separate sex from love with swinging...and that's how i feel. Now do not get me wrong just because i want to play with you does not mean we cannot have idle chit chat....but to me a friend is someone who is always there....i love my friends. It is possible that maybe i don't use the term friend as lightly as most...if u are my friend i will go to hell and back for you. I don't have sex with friends because there is only one person who gets the complete friendship/love/sex package and that is my husband. So basically if i have sex with you its just that sex...doesn't mean i don't like you...and i will never lead anyone to believe that its anything other than that. For me honesty is always the best policy even if it is sometimes a little harsh. To me being good friends and having sex is a nono. Maybe my term for "friends with benefits" should be "acquaintance with benefits".

So am i really alone in this line of thinking?

[jennandjamesinm]

I think that it depends on who it is. Some people want true friends, some people want to just know that the person can grunt a few intelligible words, and there are those that are in between. You ask 20 different people and you are going to get 20 different answers.

Jenn

[dragonblade]

I don't think you are, as I said in my reply to Uomo, there are definitely those who want one night stands, or even repeat performances, but don't want the hassle or attachment that goes along with truly being friends with someone you swing with.

I personally look for friends because we tried that basic, random, get to "know" someone thru the internet and phone and meet up to possibly hookup, and we had a bad experience. Of course I realize that it was the people we were with and the actions that ensued, not that portion of swinging in and of itself, but we feel more comfortable being friends with whom we swing with. For instance, my hubby's best friend of 9 years is our #1 swing partner, and we're looking to hookup with a female friend of mine of the last 2 years that happens to be that "elusive single bi-female" there's a different friend possibly in the mix, but we won't get into that right now Anyway, like what has been said in the past "different strokes for different folks".

I think the portion of what he learned was that someone wants to know that they have more than just a body, that we do in fact enjoy the conversation, the dancing, or the hanging around rather than some random guy coming up and being like "Hi my name is Joe-Bob and I want to screw you like pigs in muck in the summertime!" :rollseyes: We do in fact want to be seen as real people, not just hedonistic sex toys without feelings right? But for most people with the majority of their swing partners (from what I've seen and read) have the same or mostly the same attitude as you do. Acquaintences with Benefits. facelick

But hey, I'm still fairly new to this wonderful world of swinging so this is just IMHO Surrender

~~Blade~~

[good times]

I agree with Jenn, everybody is different. In our case we have sex with more people that we like for sex than we do with people we consider real friends. And while I would say we love our friends it is a totally different thing than the love we have for each other. We have found that it is pretty rare to become real good friends with the people we play with and in actively swinging for over 3 years have only met a few people through swinging that we would consider true friends. So, for us, if it was required that we be friends first we probably wouldn't be swinging as their are a lot of people we find sexually stimulating and fun to play with but don't have enough in common with to be friends beyond that. On the other hand, if we make the kind of friends that we enjoy outside the lifestyle and also enjoy playing with, that is fine with us too.

In reference to the quote of Uomo that you cite though, if we meet someone and just don't like them or mesh personality wise we won't be having sex with them. So I would say that it is true that I would have to like the person to have sex with them, that doesn't mean we are going to be best of friends though.

[intuition897]

There are friends and then there are friends. While we can differentiate between love and sex, for us it would be highly unusual to have sex with people we didn't like. If all we were after was a simple orgasm, hell, that's what sex toys are for. But I think most would agree that personality plays a part in attraction. For us, a major part. It has nothing to do with whether or not they would make good life-mate material, and I could care less about someone schmoozing me with flowers and candy... But I can't help but be turned off by huge egos and the constant preening that goes with it, mean-spiritedness, lying, cheating, or just blain classless personalities. Life is just too short to voluntarily spend even one evening in the company of people whose company you don't enjoy. And I don't care if they look like supermodels.

Having sex with people you don't "click" with, just because they're physically attractive, doesn't feel right to us. It sort of feels like we're A) wasting time that we could be spending actually enjoying another couple's company, and B) a bit like we're using these other people, jerks though they may be. We don't like to feel like we've been used, so we're uncomfortable doing it to anyone else.

[deadparrot911]

But I think most would agree that personality plays a part in attraction.

I completely agree...

We don't like to feel like we've been used.

Sometimes feeling used is fun...but I'm twisted and not ashamed to admit it. However I am brutally honest and would never lead anyone that i was "using" to believe it was anything else. Doesn't mean we cant talk or have dinner...or even enjoy non sexual time.

To me a friend is someone i know inside and out....someone i tell anything to. So while i'm not opposed to "nice shoes wanna fuck" I'm also not opposed to hey u are a really nice person lets have dinner and see where it goes. To me tho either will probably never been a good friend because if you are not my husband and i will be playing with you there is a distance that must be kept so that attachments are not formed. i don't know if that makes me classless...honest...or somewhere in-between lol

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by deadparrot911

Sometimes feeling used is fun...but I'm twisted and not ashamed to admit it.

I suppose. Not my cup of tea, but everyon has their own thing...

Originally Posted by deadparrot911

To me tho either will probably never been a good friend because if you are not my husband and i will be playing with you there is a distance that must be kept so that attachments are not formed. i don't know if that makes me classless...honest...or somewhere in-between lol

I guess maybe that's it. It depends on your comfort level. We're not lovey-dovey with our playmates; we have our own emotional barriers set up as well, and there are no doe-eyed looks, loving caresses or 'I love you's. Just like physical personal space, everyone has their emotional personal space. That crosses it for us. But while we don't want to know every detail of your personal life, nor do we want to get involved in it, we have no problem treating our playmates with the same level of consideration that we extend to our long-term friends. It's just that by mutual agreement, this friendship has an expiry date. As in, possibly the next day.

I get the funny feeling we're arguing the same point, deadparrot911.

[mrs good times]

I view a "friend" as someone I trust implicitly. Someone I would not be afraid to speak my mind to, be open and honest about my thoughts and feelings with or give the keys to my house. While we aren't "friends first" types we have made friends like this through swinging. Usually by means of sex first, that was fun, lets have dinner and things evolve from there. I never worry about there needing to be a distance because we have sex together. If I am willing to trust them with all of the other aspects of my life why not my husband. I think friends such as these are even more precious because they are the only friends that TRULY no us "inside and out". Our vanilla friends no nothing of our extra curricular activities.

So my question is deadparrot do your friends really know you inside and out?

[deadparrot911]

I think you may be right Intuition. See i dont call many friend and i guess the idea that almost everyone here says friends first kinda freaks me out...by my definition of friend thats i line i wont cross and refuse to let anyone i talk to along these lines think i will. I feel if u are gonna swing honesty is essential both with your husband/partner and with any potential playmates. Once i call or look at someone as friend that is what they are untill exreme circumstances rip that apart...not for a day a week or even a month.

It seems we only differ on how casual we are willing to be.

[deadparrot911]

In reply to Mrs good times...yes. I am extremely honest with my friends. If i was with another couple one night a friend called and asked me what i was doing id tell them. I will give you the point that they havent had sex with me...but they can ask me any sort of odd question..and do and i never hold back. I have no secrets from them....have they actually been inside me no...but with them i wear my heart on my sleeve and hold no details about my life from them (no matter how straight they are).

[WesternSwing]

deadparrot911, you bring up an interesting point. The level of intamacy outside of sex is different for everybody. For us, our litmus test for having sex with you is we ask ourselves "if sex was not in the picture would we still be friends with these people/this person?" If the answer is yes then we're on for sex. If it is no, then it won't happen.

Because of this many of our playmates have also become good friends. Friends that we do stuff with outside of the lifestyle, too. We still seperate love and sex very well. Like you said, there is only one person that gets the whole package of love/sex/friendship, and that is us. Other's may get friendship or sex and friendship, but they will never get love. Maybe in this we are partially polyamorous. Hmmm. Many of our new friends we've met in the lifestyle are truly poly, but we haven't played with them for that reason, they are looking for something more than just a casual sexual relationship. But, we have so many other things in common that we have become good friends. In fact, I could call them "our tribe".

So there it is. Yes, we develop friendships with most we swing with, and we would go to hell and back for a couple of them, but not all. Just like in vanilla life I think there are different levels of friendship for us.

Mr. WS

[mrs good times]

Originally Posted by deadparrot911

I have no secrets from them.

In this I think you are very lucky because most of our non-swinging friends would definately be opposed. We in fact lost, what we thought was a good, friendship because we told them we were swingers. This one of the reason I find that my friends that I have made in the lifestyle are really the only friends in which I can be 100% honest with therefore more cherished.

[WildMiCouple]

Originally Posted by mrs good times

This one of the reason I find that my friends that I have made in the lifestyle are really the only friends in which I can be 100% honest with therefore more cherished.

It's too bad how this is, Mrs Good Times......but we find it the same way. Although we don't have what I'd call true friends in the lifestyle, just couples we consider friends that we see every few months. Our AFF ad states "not looking for long term friendships, but if it happens......great" We really don't want the baggage or complications that becoming true friends with playmates might bring.

So yes, Deadparrot, there are others like you

But I still think it would be cool to be open and honest and share some stories with our vanilla friends without freaking them out and ruining a true friendship

Brett

[Dynamar]

Originally Posted by intuition897

There are friends and then there are friends. While we can differentiate between love and sex, for us it would be highly unusual to have sex with people we didn't like.

Dito My main rule: I won't have sex with someone I wouldn't have as a friend. Doesn't mean we are friends, but definitely means we could be or might be.

[EvilMJ]

I guess we are in between here. I have some good friends in the lifestyle that we play with , and there has been a time or two that we played and I can't remember their names.

I don't need you to be my friend to play, if we click and things are going well, then great. It just depends on the mood I am in and the situation. But I have found that sometimes having them as friends has caused more problems in the long run. I have some friends that we no longer play with becuase it just got to be too much, but we remained good friends. I also have some friends that we always have a good time together as friends and if the mood hits us then we play too and that has worked fine too.

Everyone is different, so i guess you just do what works for you.