Should we explore this? Swinging with a friend

[The Fuse]

Long post ... fair warning.

I think I know what peoples' opinions on this situation will be, but my judgement is admittedly clouded, so I'm throwing it out there to see what comes back. I've seen a lot of threads on swinging with friends, but haven't seen the situation I'm presenting.

Mr. Fuse and I have a longtime friend, H. I am very close with him. We've known him for sixteen years. For fifteen of those years, he's been trying to get me to sleep with him. For about twelve of those years, he's been married to someone else we're both friends with. He knows it's not going to happen, because the answer has always been a resounding "NO", with no caveats. I love H in spite of this, for other reasons having to do with his character, as a dear friend. H is partly joking when he talks about sex with me, but partly not.

H's wife is a nice woman, very cerebral, quiet, and hardworking. They are a good match in many ways, but not sexually. She is pretty well un-interested in sex. They were in their twenties when they got together, and she had never even kissed anyone prior to that. Amazing but true. No religious upbringing influence, just a lack of interest. Her whole family seems the same way. She obviously loves him, and does try to accomodate him. She's not uninterested due to spite or some other negative emotion. But she appears to have a low libido, and can't muster the desire he needs.

H, on the other hand, is extremely into sex, and knew about this problem going into their marriage. He is still happy in the marriage, and has never talked about separating or anything like that. However, he feels "entitled" to pursue sexual relationships with other women, and would definitely have a secret affair if he could. I've told him that I consider this a seriously wrong attitude -- he's not entitled to cheat. He deserves sexual validation as much as anyone, because he is a great husband. He is sweet to her, loves her, cares for their daughter, cares for her aging parents, cooks dinner, cleans house, and works part time. He still tries to have sex with her, but the times they do are few and far between.

As far as I know, he hasn't had an affair. He is not into casual sex -- he wants an affair, with all the emotions that would go with it. He feels unappreciated, not desired, and dismissed sexually at home, and wants validation so badly it's palpable. I told him point blank, years ago, not to tell me if he has an affair, as I would feel obliged to tell Mrs. H. Mr. Fuse knows about everything.

H and I have an affinity for each other. I am not the only woman he's pursued, but I'm definitely the main one. I have suppressed any desire I feel for him. I just don't let it out. It's there, though.

Before Mr. Fuse and I started swinging, I would simply not have considered doing anything with H. Cheating was not in the cards for me, and I wouldn't have enabled him to do it either. H "knows" that I would not have sex with anyone but my husband. Now, I have this guilt (that I admit is misplaced), because I'm having sex with several other men, still can't be with him, and of course he still thinks we're monogamous. I'm dying to tell him about our adventures, because we've always shared so much, and he is so open-minded. But that is out of the question with him tied up in knots the way he is.

Yesterday over lunch, I guess I just wasn't routing what I was saying through the sanity filter. He was saying his usual stuff about sex together. I said that if Mrs. H would be okay with it (ha ha), that I would ask Mr. Fuse... of course H "knows" that Mr. Fuse would never approve of such a thing. It was definitely in the context of a joke, but of course there is that grain of reality in there. Oops; that should not have been said. It's just so hard to remember certain things are secret with close friends!

Mr. Fuse and I talked about it last night. We're concerned that in the unlikely event that we had a threesome (or even less likely, a swap, which would be great if Mrs. H were interested), H would become too needy and demanding after the first time. We trust them to not "out" us or anything like that. I have no idea how Mrs. H would react, because sometimes people surprise you. I would definitely need to speak directly to her to get her approval, if H said she did approve.

I am afraid that the experience would only increase his dissatisfaction with his sex life at home and make things worse for him, not to mention endangering our friendship. On the other hand, it could be a wonderful experience and an ongoing good thing in all our lives. It could deepen our friendship going forward and give him the validation (and the sex) he wants, which could lift a big burden in his life.

I'm well aware that this would not be "swinging" or "playing" like we do with our swing partners. H is not getting what he needs at home. That makes this different than our swinging encounters, where a couple is having some adventure together in addition to a satisfying one-on-one sex life.

So go ahead, tell me I'm crazy.

Please.

Reading the above, it appears clear that we shouldn't explore this... but like I said, my judgement is clouded. I want it to be workable and make everyone happy. Set me straight.

[turnuptheheat]

The fact that you are asking the tough questions means you are not crazy.
You need to follow your head on this one as your heart may be too tied in to your past with the other man.
If you are uneasy going in, there is good reason to step back and move v-e-r-y slowly.
Nothing is more important than your relationship with your husband, IMO.
Good luck working this out together.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by The Fuse

Reading the above, it appears clear that we shouldn't explore this... but like I said, my judgement is clouded. I want it to be workable and make everyone happy. Set me straight.

If it works out:
You get to help a guy cheat and get laid.

If it doesn't work out:
TOTAL DISASTER OF EPIC PROPORTIONS, CATS AND DOGS LIVING TOGETHER, MASS HYSTERIA, TOTAL ANARCHY.

My risk analysis is follow your gut, I've found in sex, not following your gut but following your gonads leads to bad things.

[WesternSwing]

Mrs. Fuse, I hear where you're coming from. Here's my concerns from the outside looking in.

IF Mrs. H was okay with you two playing together because she recognized that she just doesn't want to give him all the sex he needs, then it would be cool. She may like not having that pressure put on her. Having known each other for so many years makes it a bit easier for you two also. And knowing he has desired you for so long is a huge turn-on for you.

But from what you said here:

As far as I know, he hasn't had an affair. He is not into casual sex -- he wants an affair, with all the emotions that would go with it. He feels unappreciated, not desired, and dismissed sexually at home, and wants validation so badly it's palpable.

he is looking for more then just a sexual outlet. He is looking for a relationship. You'd turn into his emotional tampon. You already have a relationship with your husband, and I can guarantee trying to fix his relationship will put stress on your relationship with your husband. It's one thing to validate him sexually, a whole 'nother thing to fill the other voids his wife should be. This will lead to nothing but a clingy boyfriend, as you seem to already of thought of.

Basically, you can't save him. He's chosen this life and chooses to continue in it. You are right when you say (based on the above quote) that having sex with him could just make his situation at home worse.

I'd say drop it. Let him find his own way. You'll end-up losing a friend over it.

It's easier to make friends of swingers than swingers of friends.

Mr. WS

[2jersey]

Originally Posted by The Fuse

...Mr. Fuse and I talked about it last night. We're concerned that in the unlikely event that we had a threesome (or even less likely, a swap, which would be great if Mrs. H were interested), H would become too needy and demanding after the first time. We trust them to not "out" us or anything like that. I have no idea how Mrs. H would react, because sometimes people surprise you. I would definitely need to speak directly to her to get her approval, if H said she did approve...

We bolded the statement which concerns us the most.

H may not understand the swinging mentality - and he may not be unable to suppress the emotions that vanilla people often associate with physical encounters.

You are a very well spoken and intelligent women - and you may be able to figure out a way around this issue. But the prospect of H becoming emotionally attached to you may become a major headache for you, and a significant problem for H and his spouse.

[Couple_N_Ark]

I agree with everyone else that you should stay clear of the situation. Since he has been pursuing you for so many years it sounds like he is not looking for just a one time thing, and if you were to do anything he would most likely be expecting an ongoing sexual relationship.

Are you ready to give him sex whenever he wants it? Ready to risk losing what appears to be a good friendship?

On a side note.....(and I'm not trying to solve the world's problems here)....we hear so often that some women are just too tired to really be into sex. Once they get home from a hard days work they just want to rest and take it easy.

I find it interesting that you mentioned that she is such a hard working woman, and that he works part time? Maybe she is simply too tired to really care about sex.

[The Fuse]

Thanks for all the great responses. I know it would be a bad idea. It just helps to hear others say so too.

Whew... I guess our friendship is changed regardless of what we do, or don't do. It's changed now because I swing, and so have to lie about why I won't sleep with him. I have to live with how I feel about that. The friendship would certainly change if we went ahead and tried to make swingers of Mr. and Mrs. H. Mr. H might get something he thinks he wants, but then... things would probably go downhill in a hurry. No need to go "screw" with a situation that is functional and stable.

Thanks again.

[NandTfromCA]

Regardless of what Mrs. H would accept, the line about Mr. H becoming needy is one of the more concerning things to me as well.

Originally Posted by The Fuse

Whew... I guess our friendship is changed regardless of what we do, or don't do. It's changed now because I swing, and so have to lie about why I won't sleep with him

Surely your friendship has changed but what do you need to lie about?

You can tell him that you don’t want to sleep with him because it would be cheating on his wife. That one is pretty straightforward.

It seams you could also tell him that what you do with other men, and what he would be looking for, are two different things. He is looking for an affair, whereas that is not what you and Mr. Fuse are into at all (at least I don't think so).

Mr.

[sexyshelby]

Dito Huge red flag here.

I'm glad that you can recognise that this is a bad idea - despite how fun it might be at the time, the end results are not worth it.

~SS

[LOL_OMG]

It sounds like you know the answer to me. My only input is that if you do anything with H the dynamics of the relationships (everyones) will change, and I would guess for at least one of the four of you (possibly everyone) for the worse. It's quite a dice roll, and I don't think you want to gamble what you would have a stake.

[Mr. Truelove]

Originally Posted by Chicup

If it works out:
You get to help a guy cheat and get laid.

If it doesn't work out:
TOTAL DISASTER OF EPIC PROPORTIONS, CATS AND DOGS LIVING TOGETHER, MASS HYSTERIA, TOTAL ANARCHY.

My risk analysis is follow your gut, I've found in sex, not following your gut but following your gonads leads to bad things.

Haha...Ghostbusters.....

[Mike and Jan]

It does sound like he's just wanting to get laid.

If you and your husband are really that close friends with him then I'd think you should simply confide in him first that you two have experimented in swinging. No details, just let him know that you've done it, worked through the usual problems, liked it and will likely continue in ideal situations.

Now if his immediate reaction is that since you've done it with other men you'll certainly do it with him then I'd back off. He just didn't get it.

But if it leads to a real conversation about all the positive aspects of swinging then find out if he'd also be OK with his wife being with others. And, get his permission to talk to her.

It seems that you would like to be with him about as much as he wants you so maybe it'd be better for your husband to talk to his wife. Or at least the two of you together so you don't get traped having to admit to her how many times her husband has hit on you. Perhaps all four of you could approach the topic during a game of Truth or Dare or something.

But, unless she agrees without reservations I'd forget it. And if she agrees let her set all boundaries. She's likely going to feel defensive.

Who knows? It just might open up a whole new world for her. But it sure could cause more problems with thier marriage too. Tip toe and use extreme caution.

Good luck to you,

Rich

[fun4Ds]

maby im missing something here and im sorry if im wrong but you seem to know him better than her? you seem to know what she does and dosent do... but not how SHE feels... it seems that might be very important. i know mrs.fun would want to know everything about the other womens feelings.. [girl stuff}.. if they have a bad sex life at home dont you think he should be working on that first? most affairs start with " oh im not satisfied at home" sorry but im a guy that works with alot of guys, and when i hear that (at work) they are not gettin it good enough at home, i usally ask do you treat your wife like she is #1 ? i usally get a dumb look followed by well i do this or that.well how about forgettin all about yourself and sit down with your wife and ask questions {without giving your opinion and solutions}, but more of HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL. AND LISTEN DONT INTERUPT. maby im wrong but it dosent sound like this guy truly knows the women hes with. it would be interesting to know how she FEELS about things. Surrender

[Additude]

Dont tell him you are a swinger and ask him if he has ever considered swinging with his wife to fill the sexual void in his life?

Plant a seed.

That way you can kind of kill two birds with one stone.

In the meantime, just tell him you haven't asked your hubby about yours and his conversation because you feel uncomfortable asking your husband such a question and that when you said it you wern't really thing about it right.

He will explore the possibility of swinging with his wife. If she doesn't want to swing then maybe she will tell him it is fine for him to swing alone.

Maybe she will want to swing with him as a couple.

Maybe she won't want to have anything to do with it either way.

But one way or the other, you will know and you didn't make any committment, just a suggestion.

But this is a touchy situation. If he is looking for a full blown affair with the emotions and everything, then he isn't looking for just sex. If he's not looking for just sex then you probably don't want to be his "emotions and everything".

But I hope it works out for you.

[The Fuse]

Originally Posted by NandTfromCA

Regardless of what Mrs. H would accept, the line about Mr. H becoming needy is one of the more concerning things to me as well.

Surely your friendship has changed but what do you need to lie about?

If I'm not going to sleep with him, then it's for sure I'm not going to tell him we're swinging and I'm sleeping with other men. That would only make him upset.

Originally Posted by NandTfromCA

You can tell him that you don’t want to sleep with him because it would be cheating on his wife. That one is pretty straightforward.

It seams you could also tell him that what you do with other men, and what he would be looking for, are two different things. He is looking for an affair, whereas that is not what you and Mr. Fuse are into at all (at least I don't think so).

Mr.

We're not into including him without Mrs. H's permission.