Vanilla friends who express and interest in swinging...

[MoonLightKiss]

Alright, really gonna work hard at keeping this short, so wish me luck.

Last night, a vanilla couple, very good friends of ours who know we are swingers, brought up the subject of swinging. They wanted to know what swinging actually is, how do we meet couples, is it fun, yada yada yada. We were as honest with them as possible without revealing details into whom we had been with. We don't believe in kissing and telling.

Some background on their marraige. The wife had an affair and called it quits a couple of months ago. They separated for a couple of weeks and are currently involved in counseling with their pastor to work through it. They fight constantly, I am the one getting phone calls from her at 2 a.m. in regards to the fight they are currently having, and I get these calls at least three times a week.

They asked us if they should get into swinging. IMHO they have no business getting involved in the lifestyle, because their relationship isn't strong enough for this yet. Not to mention the fact that when I asked them why they were doing this her answer was, because she likes to have sex with other people becuase her husband isn't doing that much for her, and his answer was if they do this then he doesn't have to worry about her cheating. I quickly told them if that was their reasons they got no business doing this, because all they are going to do is bring their drama into other peoples lives. I also told them, that it was too soon in their marraige, especially considering it was already on the rocks. I also told them, that if they wanted to end up in divorce court, to go ahead with swinging at this point in their marraige. However, I also told them about this board, gave them the site, and told them to visit, look around and ask their questions here, because so many others have been doing this longer and have more experience and would probably be able to answer their questions better than I can.

Anyway my problem is this. Now they are mad at us because they think we are being hypocritical. Saying we are swingers, and how dare we discourage them from doing it. I tried to explain again, its not that I do or don't want them to, its that I care for both of them and don't want to see them do it this soon after so many problems.

Was I wrong about them not being ready? Should I have kept my mouth shut and just told them to come here, that I was too new to answer their questions?

[CuriousInOregon]

NO WAY I think you were 100% on the money how many times have we heard the seasoned Vets of this lifestyle express WHOLE HEARTEDLY not to get into this lifestyle to save a relationship? MORE times than I care to try and remember thank you, I think you were being a friend and said some good things. I guess if you want to salvage the friendship your best bet is to let them know that you will be there for them no matter what they chose to do BUT you want nothing to do with it from any standpoint other than a friend. Then your not really stuck in the middle. as far as the 2am calls go Turn off the ringer silly thats what we do hehehehe

[Drknow]

Perhaps they should try the open marriage course. It seems like they are on a path of destruction any way and probably would do less damage to another couple. If they don't have a change of heart I think they are doomed. Especially the way they jumped on you for giving them sound and concerned advice. Hope I am wrong, hang in there and don't be discouraged.

[Tantra]

Hate to be a pessimist, but those guys are probably going down in flames and if they ever get into the lifestyle before that, they'll probably leave some of their debris for a bunch of other people to clean up.

I'm crossing my fingers that your friends stay far far away from the lifestyle.

[The Fuse]

What you told them sounds like common sense to me. I'm sure that part of their reaction stems from simply being worked up about the idea of having sex with other people in a context that makes it okay. They see something that looks really good, and perhaps they aren't thinking clearly. Horniness has a pesky quality of doing that to people (at least to me). They apparently don't realize yet that if they are insecure in their relationship, having sex with others isn't going to help! Maybe you should ask the husband how he would feel if and when he saw his wife really enjoying having sex with another man, and vice versa for the lady. Maybe that image would help them realize what they are considering.

[starryeyes]

You are being a good friend and letting them know what is in store should they proceed while thier relationship is on thin ice. A good friend would tell them the truth, even when it hurts... they of course will make the final choice. They seem to be looking for that quick fix to problems that are deep rooted. The sad part is that by going into the lifestyle for the wrong reasons, others will become collateral damage.
We for one would not want to have any part in a break up/divorce, we would feel horrible.

Like Curious says "if you want to salvage the friendship your best bet is to let them know that you will be there for them no matter what they chose to do BUT you want nothing to do with it from any standpoint other than a friend. Then your not really stuck in the middle."

If and when they are back on terra firma and they are proceeding as a couple with with clear heads and with honest hearts, lots of communication, then they may be able to test the waters and see if it is for them.

We wish you well. We wish them well.

[Mrs Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by MoonLightKiss

Was I wrong about them not being ready? Should I have kept my mouth shut and just told them to come here, that I was too new to answer their questions?

You were right on to tell them the truth and what you thought about them getting into the lifestyle. You're all friends and they asked you for information and advice. Spoo and I talk about this all the time...people thinking it will fix a marriage that is already in crisis. We have seen enough, and that's not even as much as some have, to know that it takes a very strong and solid marriage to navigate through this lifestyle.

We always "debrief" as we call it after an encounter or even a night at the club...play or no play involved. We talk about the good stuff, the things we picked up on in conversations, things we saw that didn't involve us and how we felt about this or that. It gets us hot for each other on the way home reminds us that we are on the same page about everything and let's us enjoy the lifestyle together.

Your friends sound like they have a long way to go before they should think about anything other than building a stong marriage. One that has what they are obviously lacking...trust, communication, understanding, care for each others feelings and a united front.

Good luck and remember to stay out of the line of fire.

Mrs Spoomonkey

[MoonLightKiss]

Thank you all for your replies...I feel better knowing I did the right thing. I did call them last night and told them that I was sorry if something I said came across as judgemental, that its ultimately their decision, and that I am their friend and I support them, even when I cannot support their decisions. So hopefully this will all work out for the best.

[dayhiker]

moonlightkiss,
I casually knew a years ago taht verbally fought all the time. After a few years of hearing that they regularly fought, I started to wonder if they loved the verbal fighting? I personally hate it, so I have a really hard time understanding why people like it. Well, I can undestand it from a debating point of view. I love a good decussion.
What does the raised vioces have to add to the argument?

dayhiker

[Edison Carter]

Susan here--I had a friend going through marriage issues and called me every night to talk about the latest issues. It got old. I explained that she needed to get counselling, evenif she went alone because I could not really help. The calls kept coming. Then, each time I got called I'd ask,"Are you seeing a counselor ?" and if the answer was 'no', I'd hang up. After a week of that she got a counselor and got real help .

[Additude]

I think you were right in your reason but maybe wrong in your action.

Sure, if their marriage is in trouble by your observance and the reasons they gave you didn't quite fit your position on reasons to swing, then you, as a friend and confidant should relay your thoughts and feelings to them.

However, I think the action you should have taken was one that would explain a generic concern to their understanding only. Maybe referencing that many couples feel that as a prerequisit, anyone entering the lifestyle should have a strong and committed marriage. Keeping in mind that it was just information you were providing them to help them make their decision and not some advise and surly not persuasive advise.

You said they "Asked you if they should get into swinging". For me I don't think that is a question I would personally want to answer for any couple and I would say that right up front. I would have truly left out the, "I quickly told them if that was their reasons they got no business doing this", because that statement is just your judgement call. I think that statement is imposing.

If some couple wants to get into swinging, then that's their call. If they ask about it then keep it informative and respectful.

None of us know what's going on in another couples marriage or lives or what's in their heads and ways of thinking on the subject. For all that may be known, it's nothing but assumptions that swinging would further detriment their marriage. For all that is known, swinging could be the marraiges salvation, providing the wife her sexual outlet and the husband a certain amount of composure and trust.

I've seen marriages stay together for far more treacherous reasons such as money, family, children, abuse, etc.

I think you gave them good advise on references to this site. Give them references and allow them to investigate their own course. Leave your personal feelings out of it and you'll avoid the accusations and frictions.

With that in mind, I wouldn't allow you and your husband to have a swing experience with them unless at some time in the future it seems their marriage is progressing in a positive manner.

[EvilMJ]

I think you did the right thing 100%.

You told them about swinging, you told them why you didn't think it was for them. You told them you will be there for them what ever they decide.

There is no way they can come back to you when (and yes I mean when not if) things fall apart and blame you for not warning them about what was going to happen.

I think they should count themsevles fortunate to have such honest and caring friends.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by MoonLightKiss

Was I wrong about them not being ready? Should I have kept my mouth shut and just told them to come here, that I was too new to answer their questions?

You answered exactly as I would have, and I hope they read this post, too. You were not being hypocritical, just brutally honest and they didn't like the answer.

Our favorite analogy of swinging is: Swinging is like a cake. The marriage is the cake and swinging is the frosting. If the ingredients are not in the cake to make it solid, all the frosting in the world is not going to keep it from falling falling apart.

They are considering swinging for the wrong reason, to avoid and thus "fix" in their own minds what is wrong in their marriage. All they're going to do is intensify those problems, and as you've pointed-out, bring unneccessary drama into other's lives, too.

They may have a hard time at it, also, unless they meet someone that is as inexperienced as they are. I think the veterns would see right through them within 30 minutes of meeting.

Mr. WS

[MoonLightKiss]

Originally Posted by Edison Carter

Susan here--I had a friend going through marriage issues and called me every night to talk about the latest issues. It got old. I explained that she needed to get counselling, evenif she went alone because I could not really help. The calls kept coming. Then, each time I got called I'd ask,"Are you seeing a counselor ?" and if the answer was 'no', I'd hang up. After a week of that she got a counselor and got real help .

Well, I took your advice, somewhat. I realized all the late night, early morning calls were not going to stop. And don't get me wrong, I love them both dearly, but lets get real, I am no proffesional, and while I am completely sympathetic to the situation they have gotten themselves into, I cannot fix them, and that is how they are coming across. "Give us the fix all cure all". I told her I would be happy to listen and let them vent if they needed, cause hey we all need to at some point but to please quit calling at 2 am. I have children, husband and life too. That 2pm would be adequate to come over for a cup of coffee and a bitch session about spouses.

She called. I saw caller id on my cell phone, and answered the phone just like hubby and I discussed. "Are you bleeding?" No, she replied. "Are you on the way to the hospital?" No again. "Are you on the streets?" No. "Any other type of emergency?" No, just the husband. "Call back in the morning."

She did, with a big apology. Its been a quiet couple of nights since. THANK YOU for the advice. Hopefully my sleep patterns will become normal again.

[Operator]

There is an old saying : "Swinging will not heal a bad relationship, but it will sure as hell don't kill a good marraige"