How to determine if our friends are swingers?

[dallmax1]

My wife and I have a fairly active sex life, we’re coming up on 10 years of marriage, and we’ve been together for 12. We often fantasize about FFM; she is no prude, we are pretty wild for the most part. I had never really thought about swinging until we were at a “Pimps and Ho’s” party when a lady at the party told me that she thought that we were swingers. I asked her why and she said because of the way we were dressed. Since the party I have not stopped thinking about the possibility.

A little about my wife; she is very conservative on the outside but she is quite wild. She doesn’t care when I kiss her friends or when her friends kiss me (usually when we are out drinking). We go to strip clubs with friends; she will point out other beautiful women when we are out. I am an extremely flirtatious person. It doesn’t bother her; she just usually rolls her eyes. She is not the jealous type at all; here is an example, we were at a Halloween party and I was flirting with our friend, grabbing her ass, zipping down her shirt, kissing her. Now my wife jokes about her friend being my girlfriend. She refers to several friends of ours as though they are my girlfriends.

Also, I have a company work party this weekend and I am taking out a coworker because my wife doesn’t want to go and she is fine with that. I am a flirt, but wouldn’t do anything sexual (except for the examples above, which my wife is always present) with anyone because I love my wife, but I love the company of women and love to have a fun time.

We were out with my “girlfriend and her husband (Suzy and Bill)” playing pool, couple vs. couple, after the first game I asked if they wanted to swap partners (a little passive aggressive) my wife’s response was “I am too old for Bill”. It wasn’t “No you are sick” Of course my response was “I was talking about pool, what were you guys thinking”. They had a “Sex on the beach” drink special, I asked Suzy if she wanted to have “Sex on the Beach” she responded with “where is the beach” I just looked at her and she reiterated “I don’t think you heard me, where is the beach” I responded with “I was talking about the drink”. I danced with Suzy that night, when she brought us home, she asked that the next time we go out that we invite her and Bill to go in our hot-tub. Suzy also wants to go on vacation with us in the worst way (she has mentioned it numerous times).

I have casually mentioned swinging to my wife but she immediately shoots it down with a resounding NO, so I don’t push it.

Two part question. Do you think Suzy and Bill are swingers and are beating around the bush “no pun intended” and how can I ask them without jeopardizing a friendship?

[TNT]

Just because a couple is flirtatious with sexually suggestive comments in a social setting, does not mean they are swingers. They could be or they could not be. The only way to know for sure is to ask.

You can either (taken from Mr. Alura)..ask questions that can't be answered with a yes or no answer ....Hey, we saw this program on T.V. the other night and it was about swingers, have ya'll ever heard of such a thing and what do ya'll think about it? Or, just come right out and ask...Hey, you two seem to be very open sexually, are you perhaps swingers?

Either way, if swinging is something that you are wanting to explore, talking to your wife is way more important than finding out if your friends are swingers.

Teresa

[good times]

I agree with Teresa, if your wife isn't open to the idea of swinging yet it really doesn't matter if they are or not.

To answer your question though, I would doubt if they are swingers, they could be, but most likely not. Our non swinger friends behave this way all the time yet they are repulsed by the idea of swinging.

Their is no way that I know of to ask them while being sure ahead of time that it won't mess up your friendship with them. We had a similar situation to yours and when we brought up the subject of swinging with with our long time friends and it became apparent to them that we might be open to doing it, they never spoke to us again. So even if you try to word it in a non committal way, it can still mess up a long time friendship.

[WesternSwing]

I agree also. Sexual inuendo and flirting does not a swinger make. In fact, it's a long way emotionally from flirting to swinging.

Mr. WS

[dallmax1]

I see the point in what everyone is saying. I am more interested in finding out to try to persuade my wife. I think if anything would happen, it would be a spontaneous event VS. a planned event. So that is why I question if "Suzy and Bill" are swingers. It's just a different approach to attempt to swing. If we did swap and had fun, then she may be open to exploring different avenues to meet likeminded people, E.G., Clubs, Ads, ETC.

[Jester]

I personally feel you don't "persuade" your spouse to do this. That tends to take on the sound of manipulation and if a partner is coerced into the lifestyle it is a recipe for disaster. The guilt and resentment will generally tear a marriage apart. It really has to be something a couple does as a couple for the benefit of the couple. To be successful it really needs to be a willing choice by both partners. So having said that, let's hope I don't trip stepping off the soapbox....

In your first post you said when you mention swinging to your wife it is met with a resounding NO. That right there is a very clear answer that she isn't interested. Have you asked why? First you have to explore why her answer is no. Don't counter her reasons or try to persuade her why she should think differently, just hear her out. Establish a line of communication that is with out judgment or confrontation. Also, be prepared for her to ask you why you are interested in this. Is that something you have fully thought about for yourself? Your reasons for wanting this? You might find out her no is because of her fears about your motives. I say that because in your posts I get a sense of I want this for me, how do I get her to agree. It may not be the case, but that is how I perceive it.

Now you talk about how you kiss her friends, go to strip clubs and she points woman out to you and so on. So she lets you have a little safe flirty fun. That may be all she is willing to do and you might have to accept that. Does she do the same with your friends or other guy's or woman?

You friends may not be swingers, they just may be a fun loving couple that flirts around for the entertainment of it. We have a set of vanilla friends where the woman is jokingly referred to as my 2nd wife because we are so close. Yes we have gone on vacations together, gotten naked in the hot tub, danced very closely and kiss on the lips and all. The 4 of us have really good times together and all, but that is it. From what I have seen, it is not unusual for vanilla couples to have that kind of friendship with other couples so don't assume because they go so far, they want to go all the way. Be careful there if you really like the friendship.

While being spontaneous can be hot and fun, I don't think getting drunk one night and doing this because it happens is the way to go. To many emotions to sort out after the fact. Don't fantasize that well if I get her to try she will really be into it. That may happen in the movies, but real life is very different. The reactions and emotions are not scripted, they are very unpredictable and should considered before it happens not after.

[swing52001]

Wow Jester, you said a mouthful. And I don't think you tripped either. Very interesting insight and most agreeable IMO. I'd like to comment a bit on a couple of things.
You mentioned your close vanilla lady friend who has been naked in the tub with you. I admire your self control and restraint. It that were to happen with me, I'd have a raging erection before you could blink. Then I'd be soooo embarrassed.
I wonder if spontaneity can be planned. If a couple is of the same mind, but wishes not to engage in planned sex with others, rather to enjoy social interaction with others who may or may not become friends and/or playmates, would it be possible and/or probable to have the ground rules and communication guidlines planned should a favourable opportunity arise? Yikes, since it took that long to say it, it might be a lot of work. Might be worth it tho.

My apologies for not addressing the original question. It seems simple to me. Ask carefully. Observe quietly. Listen intently.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by swing52001

You mentioned your close vanilla lady friend who has been naked in the tub with you. I admire your self control and restraint. It that were to happen with me, I'd have a raging erection before you could blink. Then I'd be soooo embarrassed.

My wife and I have done the nudist thing, so to us it is no different then something like that. Just because they are comfortable enough to be naked around us doesn't imply sex. Besides there is another point at play here, one that is big with me. The friendship is more important to me then sex. Why risk a lifetime of friendship for a night of sex. After all in this day and age there are more opportunities for sex then there are for truly great friends so it is a matter of keeping priorities straight.

Originally Posted by swing52001

I wonder if spontaneity can be planned. If a couple is of the same mind, but wishes not to engage in planned sex with others, rather to enjoy social interaction with others who may or may not become friends and/or playmates, would it be possible and/or probable to have the ground rules and communication guidlines planned should a favourable opportunity arise? Yikes, since it took that long to say it, it might be a lot of work. Might be worth it tho.

My apologies for not addressing the original question. It seems simple to me. Ask carefully. Observe quietly. Listen intently.

Planned spontaneity ....hum I find the idea humorous but I think I know where you are going with it. And I would have to answer Yes to your question for the simple reason that is how my wife and I are. We don't belong to any sites or reguarly attend swing clubs. We have a clear idea of what we want as a couple and if we find ourselves in such a situation we already have a set of rules about what is and isn't acceptable. So to be honest we probably play a lot less then the average couple, but when we do it is a lot of fun.

[intuition897]

Yay! This is my 1000th post!

You know what? I think she just doesn't like the negative connotations of the label "swinger". Call it something else. Or call it nothing at all. Just call it having fun. And if she says, "Oh, we can't do that..." you say, "Says who? Who else are we married to, here? I'm okay with you [blankity-blank-blank]ing Bill if you like. I think that's really hot. I just want to see you enjoying yourself."

I still inwardly cringe at the term "swinger" myself. Draws up nasty images of dinner-plate sized gold medallions, leopard-print purple spandex encasing bodies that are not designed to wear it, and enough body hair to keep a sasquatch warm. It just ain't the truth, but it's ingrained there. If she's thinking Austin Powers, don't use the word swinger.

[jennandjamesinm]

Originally Posted by intuition897

Yay! This is my 1000th post!

And here's to 1000 more insight, helpful posts - WHOOT WHOOT Intuition!!!

Ok - back to your regularly scheduled thread!

Jenn

[Botcpl]

Originally Posted by intuition897

Yay! This is my 1000th post! :
I still inwardly cringe at the term "swinger" myself. Draws up nasty images of dinner-plate sized gold medallions, leopard-print purple spandex encasing bodies that are not designed to wear it, and enough body hair to keep a sasquatch warm. It just ain't the truth, but it's ingrained there. If she's thinking Austin Powers, don't use the word swinger.

It is funny what lables can do. If I invite someone for dinner at the "yacht club" their eyes roll and I can see the images of mega yachts and and silver buckets to ice the champagne down. If I say my "sailing club" the reply is, "oh, that sounds like fun." even though it's the same building and the same people. The only time I've seen a silver bucket was from a visiting boat when they asked me where they could get some ice. It was pretty funny, but they did know how to sail.

P

[dallmax1]

"...I say that because in your posts I get a sense of I want this for me, how do I get her to "agree. It may not be the case, but that is how I perceive it."

Wow, that is what you perceive after 3 posts; I think that may have been a little quick to judge, that is how I perceive it.

I think it (swinging) would be a blast for my wife. I think it would add to our relationship. Believe me, if this was all just about "Me" there are plenty of "Me" things I could do, but won't do; the fact of the matter is its about "us".

intuition897 and botcpl maybe on to something; perhaps its semantics.

[txduo2000]

Originally Posted by dallmax1

"...I say that because in your posts I get a sense of I want this for me, how do I get her to "agree. It may not be the case, but that is how I perceive it."

Wow, that is what you perceive after 3 posts; I think that may have been a little quick to judge, that is how I perceive it.

I think it (swinging) would be a blast for my wife. I think it would add to our relationship. Believe me, if this was all just about "Me" there are plenty of "Me" things I could do, but won't do; the fact of the matter is its about "us".

I think the reason Jester said this was because in two of your posts, you discuss how your wife has already stated she was against swinging and also you ask how you can "persuade" her to participate.

I agree, the term "persuade" correlates to many to also mean "manipulate" and most of us are against heavy-handed tactics such as arm-twisting to get someone to do what you want to do, and what they have already professed to be against.

Maybe it is semantics. But maybe your wife just enjoys flirting heavily and is simply not interested in having sex with anyone else, nor having you have sex with anyone else.

My suggestion would be to talk alot with her, invite her to read this board and find out we are not a bunch of perverts. And talk some more. And some more. Between the two of you.

Usually it is one part of a couple that first brings up the idea of swinging, and many times the other partner is reticent to agree, but with continued talking and hashing out the pros and cons, and talking openly and honestly to your desires for being in the lifestyle, the other partner starts to realize that it is not something that diminishes, but enhances a relationship. Perhaps this is what you meant by "persuading" your wife. But no one can give you advice on how to do that. Only you know your wife and how best to talk to her. I would be very reluctant to tell anyone specifically what to say or do to convince someone this is right for them, other than suggesting researching and communicating.

[DBL D]

Originally Posted by intuition897

Yay! This is my 1000th post! .

Congratulations Girl!

Originally Posted by intuition897

You know what? I think she just doesn't like the negative connotations of the label "swinger". Call it something else. Or call it nothing at all. Just call it having fun. And if she says, "Oh, we can't do that..." you say, "Says who? Who else are we married to, here? I'm okay with you [blankity-blank-blank]ing Bill if you like. I think that's really hot. I just want to see you enjoying yourself." .

Or maybe she has reached a place where she is entirely comfy...what with your flirtatiousness and all. You say she's wild, but besides having fantasies about ffm's nothing seems to happen. How about addressing the sex/love angle or "sharing"?

Originally Posted by intuition897

I still inwardly cringe at the term "swinger" myself. Draws up nasty images of dinner-plate sized gold medallions, leopard-print purple spandex encasing bodies that are not designed to wear it, and enough body hair to keep a sasquatch warm. It just ain't the truth, but it's ingrained there. If she's thinking Austin Powers, don't use the word swinger.

You just killed me there. I swear Intuition. I know your imagination isn't that active...is it?

Male D

[twoferfun69]

Originally Posted by intuition897

Yay! This is my 1000th post!
I still inwardly cringe at the term "swinger" myself. Draws up nasty images of dinner-plate sized gold medallions, leopard-print purple spandex encasing bodies that are not designed to wear it, and enough body hair to keep a sasquatch warm. It just ain't the truth, but it's ingrained there. If she's thinking Austin Powers, don't use the word swinger.

Congrats Intuition!! We are not worthy!!!
There is a gentleman high level administrator in my son's school district who is rumored to be in the lifestyle. HE fits that Ron "the hedgehog" Jeremy look that most of the people I know, including myself, envisioned as the type of person being in this lifestyle.
This is such a shame, because most of the people we have met do not look or act anything like this, and do not act any different than anyone else you might see on the street.
My ex and I had a couple that we would hang out every weekend for a couple of years. Very flirty, etc. Naked in the hot tub was normal. Hand jobs from the ladies were normal(never to completion though). Never once did we even so much as have sex with our spouses in the same room, or even at their house. An inquiry was made as to whether or not they would "do such a thing" and they very gently told us that they would never "do such a thing". But, the relationship continued on like that for a couple more years, until my ex and I split.
So, goes to show, ya never can tell, even when all the signs are there.