Why is it wrong to want friendship before sex?

[Sweetness4u42]

(B)xxx(/B)

My husband and I are fairly new at the swinging scene... We have an ad on Swing Lifestyle, that is a very long profile, telling what we want, don't want, etc.... While we have met with a few couples from there, it seems that it does not work out because I insist on some kind of friendship/relationship with the couple FIRST before any sexual activity takes place. I am not comfortable with just jumping in and fucking someone just because everyone else is doing it. My husband says that I am looking for more of a Poly relationship, and after reading a lot of the Poly threads that he printed out for me, that is NOT what I want. I love him and only have enough room in my heart to love him.... But I guess my main confusion comes from why is it wrong for me to want to have friendships outside the bedroom.. like dining, theater, dancing, and not always expect to have to sleep with someone....??? Can someone please enlighten me on this.. what am I doing wrong??? Am I scaring away potetntial playmates by wanting something other than sex?

I know that in a swinging sityation, you check your emotions at the door, you have your fun, and you go home and reconnect with your mate.. that I do understand.. but I would also like to have a few select friends with whom we can do things aside from sex once in awhile....

I am prepared to be flamed and get negative responses, but I am just curious.. our profile on Swing Lifestyle is SensualOnes1994 Take a look and tell me please what to change...

Any help will be very appreciated!!!

Sweetness

[Alura]

I don't think you'll get flamed, Sweetness. There are many couples on this board who are looking for the same thing y'all are, ourselves included.

Now, that said, it's necessary to decide at which point the sex will happen. We are, after all, swingers. Sex is a very important part of what we seek in a lifestyle friendship.

We have, however, had sex early in the relationship, simply because we wanted to see if we were compatible there. In fact, the couples we played with the longest (years) fell into this category. We had sex with one couple on the first meeting and the other on the second. The friendships still developed nicely, and perhaps more easily because the sexuality questions were answered. Come to think of it, we had sex with each other on our first date, and we've been friends for twenty-five years.

Maybe the couples y'all meet are put off because they have no idea how long they will have to "court" y'all before the lifestyle kicks in. Rules are good, but a little bit of flexibility helps, too.

Keep in mind that what has worked for us will not necessarily work for y'all.

We hope things work out and y'all meet the ideal couple.

Mr. Alura

[LikeMinds321]

Hello Sweetness and Welcome to the Swingers Board.

You should feel comfortable with people before having sex with them. It's not unusual to want to get to know people. Some people can determine if they are ready to swing within a few hours of meeting, others need more time.

I've read your profile and the message it sends me is that you're looking for a couple to "marry" more than play with. It's as if you are searching for a permanent play couple for the rest of your life. Most swingers aren't looking for such a committment. Your profile also gave me the impression that you are in greater need of a girlfriend than swing partners. If others are getting the same feeling, it might explain why you're not receiving the response you had hoped for.

How many meets do you want with a couple before having sex with them?

If you can make a decision about swinging with people by the second date, then you're pretty normal swingers I'd say. If you're looking for three or more meets before you are ready, you'll likely have a tough time finding swingers through ad sites.

LM

[JustAskJulie]

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be friends first, nothing at all. You will need to be patient (as will your husband) to find a couple where it works out that way.

In my experiences, the times it has happened that way were in situations where we did NOT meet the couple with the intent of (or through) swinging, so that may tell you something.

You have to do things at your comfort level and you should make that clear up front. As Alura said, sometimes you may feel more comfortable with someone earlier on, other times you may not. I know many couples that have a 3 date minimum before play (if not a 2 date), and it's not at all uncommon to find those who won't play on the first date.

You are also right in that it's not necessarily a poly relationship that you are looking for, they (swinging and poly) are two very different things although often confused. You don't want love, you just want to feel comfortable with and be attracted to whomever you choose to play with when/if that should happen, rather than feeling like it's all about the sex. Guys are often ready to jump in head first with much less worry of a connection than the women are, it's just something that happens.

If you can, get him to sit down with you and read the board together, it will help you both open up and talk about what you are comfortable and not comfortable with as well as what you want and are looking for and hopefully will help you come to an agreement on where the boundaries need to be drawn for you to both come out of this fulfilled.

[Nova]

Hey Sweetness - if it makes you feel better, I agree with you. There's nothing wrong, IMHO, with wanting to be friends first.

Seems to me there are a lot of posts on this board and other lifestyle boards about respecting boundaries. Surely "when to jump into bed" is a boundary to be respected, isn't it?

So don't take it personally - if you're with a couple that wants to head straight for the bedroom, then it's obviously not a good match, and if the couple doesn't accept that as a simple difference of personality, then they're not worth your time.

Best wishes, and never let other people make you think there's something wrong with you - your only perogative is to be happy and have fun.

Nova

[Sweetness4u42]

Thank you very much for the advice given me so far.. as it is, it is my Husband that brought up the fact that it was like I was wanting to have a Poly or "Marriage" so to speak... That is NOT what I am wanting at all.. I just want to feel some kind of mutual interests aside from sex, and also mutual attraction. To me at this point, I would rather see a couple maybe 2 or 3 times before anything sexual happens.. after all, there has to be some kind of mental stimulation as well as physical attraction. Yes, you are right, i would LOVE to have another female of the couple be bisexual or straight, makes no diff to me, to do ordinary things with such as shopping, coffee, talking, whatever... and I do not see that as a problem. I am not at all ready to emotionally attach myself to another couple, as I have a lot on my plate now, what with family, health, trying to get my business going, keeping my marriage alive, raising children. And there is NO way I wish to share my husband with another woman for more than a couple of hours at the most. To me, it would be perfect to meet for dinner, go dancing or a club, flirt, and see where it takes us.... but with the understanding that nothing sexual is to happen until after at least the 3rd date....

Hope to get more advice, and thank you again very much!!

Sweetness

[Dynamar]

My opinion is that your profile just comes across as very, very serious. I'm certainly not saying that you shouldn't be serious about your wishes, your needs, your desires, your boundaries, your communication and commitment as a couple.

But let's just say that you send me an email, and I look at your profile... I get way too much of a "commitment" vibe from the way your profile is written. Meaning it sounds like you may want much more of a commitment than I am looking for.

I swing because I enjoy sex as a recreational activity, it's fun, and I meet great, fascinating people. Do some of them become friends? Of course. Some are friends I talk to/chat with more than once a week, even every couple of days. Many of these I play with on a fairly regular basis, and some of them I see in social situations that don't involve playtime. Others are like good acquaintances, that I like a lot and feel warmly about, and we might see each other on an occasional basis.

The problem, in my view, of becoming too close friends-wise with people, is what if once you know them better and play with them, you don't want to have sex with them again? How do you tell your now good friends that you don't want them as play partners any more? And what might that do to your friendship?

However, if you establish early on that there is chemistry and an initial desire to play with them (since that's the ultimate goal anyway, isn't it?)... I agree with other posters... play with them. If it doesn't work out, it's a lot easier for everyone to walk away without higher expectations or hurt feelings.

Bottom line?... for me it's the "fun factor." You're obviously intelligent, articulate and high functioning people. It's just that you don't come across, to me... at least in your profile, as being very much fun.

Am I suggesting you lower your standards, or do things you don't want to do? Heavens, no! But you asked for opinions... and yeah, I know what they say about opinions...

Do wish you the best, though.

[Sweetness4u42]

Thank you for your advice... after reading our profile over and over again, I realize that not only is my husband right, but so are you all... I will be re-writing our ad.. and your comment that we are not fun people, well, may be true to some because we don't want to play right away, but that is our decision.. we are very fun once you get to now us.. I just tend to be nervous and a bit apprehensive about just giving my body to anyone that I may find attractive, thats all... just would like to know more about them.. such as their playing habits, condom useage, std safe, drug use, heavy drinkers.. and yes, on occassion, jobs, hobbies... My husband on the other hand is more easy going on that part than I am... he will play right away, but he respects my wishes, and that is a good man... Plus, there are requirements for him to play too...

Thanks for your advice.. It is well heeded...

Sweetness

[EvilMJ]

I think there are a great number of people who want friendships as well as play. We tend to have sex pretty early on, mainly to ensure that that end of things are compatable. We have a couple that we are friends with, who we got to know before we had sex with them, and now we are in a pickle becuase it is become apparent that the other hubby and I are not all that compatable in bed. Now we may have to tell these people who we have now come to see a good friends that we probably won't be playing together any more. I think if I had had a chance to play with him before we spend so much time getting to know each other then it would made things so much easier to break off the play aspect of things, as i don't want to hurt them.

So you can see there is good and bad to both sides of the coin here. You have to do what is right for you. HOwever I agree with a lot of people that you may want to tone down any over commitment type vibes that you may be putting out. THere are a lot of people that are going to be scared off by that.

[Sweetness4u42]

[b]

Thank you again... I guess my Husband is usually right... lol... we will be toning down the add and damnit, if i want to play when I go to a party, I think I may just do that... what the hell, it is for fun.. and if a friendship develops afterwards, great, if not, oh well.... Thanks, you are all great! Keep the advice cumming though!!!

Sweetness

[Alura]

EvilMJ wrote:

...now we are in a pickle becuase it is become apparent that the other hubby and I are not all that compatable in bed.

Have you tried to teach him what you would like him to do, EvilMJ? Mrs. Alura was successful in doing that with one of our long-term husbands. (His wife was quite grateful!)

She was not able to teach another how to carry on a conversation, though.

Mr. Alura

[txduo2000]

My take on the whole thing is that swinging is primarily a recreational sex pastime … so we aren’t necessarily in it for the “friends” as a primary goal, and our profile states that.

We can make friends anywhere, with anyone … but having friends that swing is entirely different, and not all that easy.

If swinging is fundamentally about finding recreational sex, then of course there has to be a compatibility … but it’s a different compatibility metric from which you would gauge finding "typical" friends, or in our case anyway. There’s a sex appeal and attraction and arousal factor that you use to measure swing friends, whereas you don’t typically use that metric to make “typical” mainstream friends.

Our ad basically reads that we are seeking playmates … and if friendship develops that’s great, if it doesn’t then that’s fine too, because in this sector of our lives, we aren’t looking for deep-rooted, long-lasting friendships. Like I said, we can find those anywhere.

And to me, if you aren’t looking for an emotional tie, then you can’t be looking for friends as your primary goal. I know that my husband and I, and all our “vanilla” friends have emotional ties to each other. We co-miserate with them when they are feeling low, stay with them at the emergency room if a kid is hurt or sick, talk for hours on the phone, share and discuss decorating ideas, help each other move … that sort of thing. Those are emotional connections.

We aren’t looking for emotional attachments, which is why we stipulate that playmates is what we seek. Of course, we want to have more than sex to talk about, but we aren’t looking to replace our existing friends with friends who have added benefits.

Several years ago, when we were brand new, hubby wanted to make friends first with the people that we intended to swing with. That turned out to be very uncomfortable for me. I was more of a "one-night stand" kind of swinger at the time. I liked the anonymity of not truly knowing our swing partners. For that reason, I loved the house parties where you could play and never have to worry about hooking up with anyone again if you didn't want to. No feelings hurt, no discussions to be had. We had one couple we became close friends with. We never played with them. I couldn't; we had gotten too close with them, and knew all their issues with their kids, the drama in their lives, and they knew ours. It was just too close for comfort for me and I could not even entertain the idea of playing with them. That has changed for me now. I don't have a problem being friends and swinging, but it is not and probably won't ever be my main goal.

Our goal is to have our fantasies realized and experience the thrill of seeing each other playing with others, satisfying each other through different experiences. That to me is a totally different goal than trying to find people that I can go shopping with, talk on the phone with, and share all my typical life aspects with.

I don’t know if I am getting across the point I am trying to make, and I don’t know if it even helps. Just my .02.

[WesternSwing]

Hey Sweetness4u42. We wouldn't think you are crazy for what you want. We look for the same things. Since we've been in the lifestyle we have had some encounters with couples that were just one-night stands, but we put ourselves in those positions - like at a house party.

But we look to, and prefer to have, some kind of connection with others besides just sex. Just sex can be good, but Mrs. WS and I feel that it is better when we really like the people, not just be physically attracted to them. They say most of sexual excitement is in the mind, and we believe it is true. People can be very attractive to us sexually, but if they don't turn us on through conversation and personality we really don't look to carry the relationship further. Not saying it hasn't happened in the heat of the moment, but it is the exception, not the norm for us.

We have developed several close relationships with couples through swinging that we would continue even if the sex stopped. The friendships work because we are very similar in education levels, personalities, and outlook on life. The same reasons you become friends with anybody, vanilla or swingers. It's the friendship that makes encounter with them better for us (and we hope for them too) because we are more comfortable with each other.

So keep looking. You are not asking for anything strange or out of the ordinary from swinging. Many people think the same way you do.

Mr. WS

[EvilMJ]

Originally Posted by Alura

Have you tried to teach him what you would like him to do, EvilMJ? Mrs. Alura was successful in doing that with one of our long-term husbands. (His wife was quite grateful!)

She was not able to teach another how to carry on a conversation, though.

Mr. Alura

I am hoping that i can . We haven't fully given up on him yet. His problem is that he is a bit 'selfish' in the sack. upon our next encounter I hope to be able to be clear that he needs to be a little more giving and a little less taking. If he can learn to do that a lot better than he has been then things will be fine. He's quiet too...so I may have similar conversation problems

[driveajeepnaked]

Hello Sweetness and Welcome -

Here's a suggestion that worked for us... try a same room "make out" sesion with your own spouse during a first meet... just to get a flavor of the other couples' style, if you will.

If you are comfortable with the other couple, but not ready to do anything with the other couple - try some same room stuff... you can learn so much by seeing what they do to/with each other first.. That may give you a clue to what may be in store, should you decide to play at some point in the future-

Val