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Friends or Playmates?

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So many profiles state they are looking for Friends with Benefits. I'm curious how much "friendliness "are people really looking. Clearly we all want to meet personable people that can carry a conversation ,share some common interests and that we feel comfortable with. So my question is how incorporated into your "real" life do really want them before you deem them "friend" ?

Below are my thoughts taken directly from our Swinglife profile......

We aren't looking for Pen Pals, Chat Buddies or Bowling Partners nor are we seeking our "perfect "match/ mate or new Best Friends. We're not interested in collecting photos or being a part of your collection . We understand that many of you are looking for "friends first" but we believe "true" friendships and deep connections are terrific when they happen but not our primary reason for being here. We really aren't looking to be invited to your Family BBQ, your daughters Wedding, your sons Birthday party or your Uncle Festers funeral. We also do not feel the need to call you when life throws us a lemon, our car breaks down or we need to borrow a cup of sugar.

Don't interpret that to mean we are sluts as we are FAR from it but we really do try to look for reasons to like others rather then seek reasons to dislike them. This is a hobby for us; one we enjoy greatly but we really have no need to incorporate our "Swing" life into our everyday life.

 

Thoughts ?

 

Mrs Sav

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Personally I think its a way of legitimizing or rationalizing the activity so to speak..."well, we are 'friends' with these other people...not just out trolling for sex to have fun"...it differentiates it in their mind.

 

We got into this to have fun with others...I don't have to be your friend first...we can be friends later if you want, but do need enough chemistry to want the clothes to come off.

 

Everyone has their own way of feeling about it. I think I'm more cynical than some. :lol:

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A swinger friend once told me, I don't need to like you to have sex with you, but I do need to like you to have sex with you more than once:)

 

I suspect that many swingers who develop deeper ties with others don't go into it planning for such. It just happens that way for some. Nothing wrong with it, if they're happy with it. And those who do seek it? I hope it works for them. Certainly there can be challenges, but it's not for me to pass judgment on the choice.

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We see many of our swing friends frequently at parties, meet & greets and have even vacationed (lifestyle themed) with some of them. We didn't start out looking for tons of friends but the friendships developed over time. Some of these couples we have played with many times, others we've not. A variety of reasons for the not, some just haven't the right timing, others just not clicking sexually.

 

We are not adverse to playing right away after meeting a couple, but do enjoy a little more connection beyond the sex, if it develops. Not a requirement though. For some of our swing friends we have met them at non-swing events (hiking, biking, bars, dinner, wine events), a select few are facebook friends and some our daughter has met.

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Thanks for the responses. I agree we've made many friends along the way but we keep that completely seperate from life away from the lifestyle. We had a couple up north when we lived there that mixed the 2 almost daily with the family life etc. On any given day their teen age daughter and younger son might be lntroduced tp their newest aunt or uncle.We and many other lifestylers were invited to their sons 1st communion ; mind you we didn't go feeling quite frankly that was too personal . I guess in part they sparked my curiousity in just how "friendly" others got . As I said sooo very many profiles I see insist on "friendships first" it got me wondering . Perhaps we are the minority in that we really don't want to be invited to the family BBQ.

I make no judgements merely curious where others drew the line.

Mrs Sav

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Guest rdy46227

When I see "friends first" on a profile, I think...

 

This is a "sex on the third date" situation where you've got do all the work of starting a relationship just to play.

 

If I've never met you before and you want to fuck, then all it takes is:

 

1. Do you appeal sexually to me?

 

2. Do I have a good "first impression" of you?

 

And there isn't any reason why we can't work up the scale later to FB or FWB. But if I wanted to invest the effort required for a relationship I'd probably not be on a "hook-up" site.

 

 

PS: A woman once defined "eternity" as "the time after I've finished cumming until I hear the door latch behind him".

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I personally find the "friends first" thing usually means they are inexperienced and don't know any better. Fact is, that is what we thought we wanted when we were new. In reality, most people we meet in the lifestyle we have no more in common with than we turn each other on sexually. And for me at least, that is all that is necessary.

 

Funny thing is, we have found that once we do become friends with someone we have met through swinging, the desire to have sex with them usually diminishes pretty fast. This seems to be true for most experienced swingers we know.

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Funny thing is, we have found that once we do become friends with someone we have met through swinging, the desire to have sex with them usually diminishes pretty fast. This seems to be true for most experienced swingers we know.

 

Now THAT is interesting! Any idea on why??

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Now THAT is interesting! Any idea on why??

 

I speculate it is because you get to know too much of the everyday drama that life can entail...the "normal" bitching and griping about someone that can take that air of, oh let's call it mystery and sexiness away from a playmate.

 

I don't need to know your hubby is the same as mine and doesn't pick up his laundry or do things around the house when you ask or whatever the gripe du jour is...that I deal with at home myself, I don't want to deal with it in a play scenario. :lol:

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It's going to depend on the people and this is probably one of the more frequent discussions we have on this site, in various forms.

 

For us, it means we want to be able to occasionally go out for a drink or do something non-sexual. We aren't really into making appointments for sex, so we want to be able to go out and do other things and if those things lead us back to our house for sex... great!

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Now THAT is interesting! Any idea on why??

 

I speculate it is because you get to know too much of the everyday drama that life can entail...the "normal" bitching and griping about someone that can take that air of, oh let's call it mystery and sexiness away from a playmate.

 

I don't need to know your hubby is the same as mine and doesn't pick up his laundry or do things around the house when you ask or whatever the gripe du jour is...that I deal with at home myself, I don't want to deal with it in a play scenario. :lol:

 

Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself.

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Well, most of my friends are swingers (or folks who dont, but know about it and think its cool and know all the rest of my swinger friends). But, that said....

 

I am in this for the sex. Sex is easy, friends are hard.

 

If I become friends with you, that's awesome. I dont go to events looking for that though. I go looking for fun times and sex, lol.

 

There are plenty of people I've played with that I probably would not remember their name if it were not for my list. yes, I keep a list with first names and dates, just for the hell of it.

 

I know some people are looking for just a very small group of friends with whom they can get naked if the feeling arises. That is totally cool, just not for me. While I prefer it fi there are people I know at whatever event I go to, my goal at any event is to meet new people and play with new people.

 

So, friendliness is great..."friends" is optional ;)

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Amen to the above few posts; "friends" is a word I do not use lightly. A friend to me isn't someone who shares only the best times in my life but can and willingly will share the worst. Life happens and my "friends" are people I can depend on when life kicks me in the stomach. Perhaps I place too much value on the word to use it randomly. We have many playmates who I consider friends in a much looser defination, people we enjoy hanging out with repeatedly sexually or not but their still not folks I'm going to call in a crisis. They're not coming to my daughters wedding, Uncle Festers funeral or help me with my dead battery (on the car ya pervs!!) We have NO desire to "date" anyone while they figure out if there's sexaul attraction or not. If we as adults can seperate love from sex why does it seem so many can't seperate sex from friendships? Or perhaps it really is there way of saying we're not REALLY sluts lol???? BTW WE"RE NOT REALLY SLUTS.......well not 7 days a week anyway (smirk)

I once read "The more I get to know people the less I actually like them " in the swinging world there's a lot of truth to that or at least the less I am attracted to them.

Mrs Sav

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I have been offline for a while so forgive me for coming late to the party on this post (and anymore I see tonight, lol).

 

We have been thinking about this a lot lately. We have small children, so getting out to play is no easy task and we don't get to do it as often as we like. We have been thinking about it so much because when we started out a year ago, we made it clear that we wanted to be friends first. Our thought process was that we wanted to get to know people before jumping into the sack. We did not want to bed hop or wake up the next morning having slept with someone whose name we did not know.

 

Flash forward a year, we are considering a change in the wording on our profile because we have met several couples that REALLY want to make friends before playing, I mean having dinner with their family, kids and all, cook outs etc.

 

We have no problem with the concept of friends in the LS, we have made more than a few, some we play with some, just as friends. But it is getting to the point that we have met a few couples several times, they are interested (or at least they say they are), we are interested, but they want to "get to know us better first" but "REALLY want to hook up".

 

They are bewildered that we are lucky to get out play once a month, they are frustrated that it is taking so long because of the limited frequency we can manage to get out. We are frustrated because we don't feel it takes six meetings to decide that we have chemistry.

 

I guess we are getting to the point that we feel that while we want to get to know you, we don't feel the need to know you THAT well before we play. Let's cut to the chase a bit sooner, it's time to play, if get grow closer as friends along the way, great, but we don't need to be your kids God parents before we fuck.

 

A bit cynical for me I know, but I can't help myself.

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^^^^yup. I know a lot of couples who reached that mindset after being in it for a while.

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Coupleerotic, yeah that seems to be a common thread among beginners. Including ourselves, that was the first thought we had, and we still have it to some degree.

 

We dont want to just meet up and hit the sack in minutes, but again, babysitting isnt easy to come by, so we dont want to drag it out needlessly either. It's all about the fun for us, and if doing some non sexual activity is really fun, let's do it. And when that fun has subsided, let's move on to sex.

Sitting around talking all night can be fun, but doing that every time you meet isn't quite what we are looking for.

 

Seems to me the mindset that most people migrate towards is playmates first, friends later if you find you have more in common.

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Guest rdy46227

Perhaps the phrase "friends first" should be replaced with "connection first".

 

Explain this as "something more than instant lust" and "enough time together beforehand to evaluate character beyond a first impression" or "attraction after the hormones have worn off", or "happy to wake up beside".

 

 

-------

Also, someone has a replacement for "bi-curious" which I can't remember exactly, but was something like "bi-accommodating" or "bi-accepting".

 

And since my brain can't devise a search that doesn't get a million hits, could someone repeat it for me, please? Thanks!

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Mr. Co here. We are hardly “newbies” yet we are a steadfastly “friends first” couple. If we can’t enjoy each other’s company, say over dinner, a game of pool, heck a snorkel or dive, we sure have zero interest in any clothless play. If we are going to do this, we require opening the option for repeated performances and the possibility for exclusivity. We want, no we “require” getting to know you well enough to understand that you will respect our limits, and we want you to know us well enough to know equally we are a very respectful couple. And unlike the masses on Julie’s board, we have come to this conclusion from NOT being a “friends first” couple. Vice-versa! We could go to parties, hop in the sack with people we just met, but we don’t, and we won’t. Also unlike those posting here, we really don’t have a problem if you are not a “friends first” couple, does not bother us in the least. I’m curious why the non friends first folks have such an issue with our preference?


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I think my orginal post needs rereading before anyone thinks anyone else is passing judgements. My question was more of HOW Friendly not why.

For the record we "don't jump into bed with just anyone" on the same token we aren't inviting you to the family BBQ, Uncle Festers Funeral or my daughters Wedding. If we can't have an intelligent conversation with you Before During and After we won't be "jumping" into bed .

Never occured to me I'd have to write "friends first" in my profile to be treated respectfully and have people abide by our rules. In our several years of swinging we have yet to meet anyone overly too aggressive, not a single couple that was disrespectful and not meet ONE person who lied to us about their ages, size or looks with fake photos.

We are on several swinging web sites and for some funny reason we have no issues with fakes, liars or cheaters. We have met honest, genuine, attractive and intelligent people and some DO become "Friends " but "friendship" isn't our motive for swinging.

 

Mrs Sav

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We had experiences with both. With couples who were friends first, and with couples we knew were swingers first.

 

For me, it was the excitement of finding out after all the usual dancing, flirting, and speculating that there would be more that was so appealing. It was like being a young single and dating again.

 

Now going in knowing there would be sex was fun, just not as much fun as the spontaneity of our, previously thought, vanilla friends.

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Mr. Want here........

 

I think the "connection first" is more appropriate. The problem I have found when looking is the ones contacting us for the most part want to just chat a minute and then get naked right then. This may be fine if we meet you somewhere at a party or meet/greet but not online.

 

We would like to make that connection first because we do have limits and we want to make sure the other person respects those. We are still new to this LS and trying to raise the limits but it's hard when we meet others that expect too much from us without giving us the chance to explore more of what we are comfortable with.

 

I have found that online "hookups" are not going well for us and I think we are just going to concentrate on the in-person meetings to find our playmates. Granted, we have found a few (oh 2 out of 1000) that we met online and have formed a "connection" with but they are far and few between.

 

Our main goal is to find someone we "connect" with and we feel some level of trust with.

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We want, no we “require” getting to know you well enough to understand that you will respect our limits, and we want you to know us well enough to know equally we are a very respectful couple.

 

We agree wholeheartedly. And I am not making judgments on how anyone else chooses to live in the LS. However, I was referring to the situations where we have gotten to know the couples very well, over vanilla dinner, drinks, lunch, even breakfast. We chat, email and even talk often over the phone. Our families have even met in some cases. I am talking about people that know us as well as some of our vanilla friends, better than our vanilla friends if you count what they know about our sex lives (something we don't discuss with vanilla friends). People that we see and talk to more often than some of our life long friends.

 

We have met couples that were ready to get naked right after we said hello, that turns us off. We have never had sex with someone we did not know pretty well and I can't foresee it ever happening. But getting to know someone well and being poker buddies or having regular cookouts are two different things. We have no problem with a LS friendship growing into that, but are starting to believe that many people want that level of friendship before going further. But that type of friendship takes time to develop. With vanilla friends we have gotten to know each other in just about every way except sexually, including politics and religion. But in the LS, sexual topics are one of the first thing you learn about others, politics and religion are two topics we avoid, at least at first.

 

We are also all too glad to have non sexual friends in the LS, and have several, but we clear that up with in a reasonable time. What has frustrated us is when we are told over and over that they want to play but it never seems to materialize.

 

With small children and busy schedules we don't get as many opportunities to play as we would like. So when we get the rare opportunity to stay out late and play we would like to actually play. We love good conversation and friendships, but we can, and have, done that without hiring difficult to find and expensive overnight baby sitters, renting motel rooms etc.

 

We go to socials with zero expectations of playing, but the opportunity usually arises with one of our current playmates. So when couple A makes it clear they want to spend time with us at the social, and we do, it is somewhat disappointing to not play, particularly when we have turned down an invitation to play with others.

 

I guess it comes down to opportunity and setting. The opportunities for us to get to know people in vanilla settings is far greater than the opportunities to play. Combine that rare opportunity with a swing setting, like a social or house party, and we would rather play than spend all night chatting.

 

I like the idea of "connection first" or "chemistry first" rather than "friends first". Real friendships take time. Given the whole concept of swinging, chemistry, connection and sexual compatibility are something you can discover long before a real friendship develops.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't swinging ALL about consensual, casual, NSA sex and the methodology for pursuing it? The only requirement being mutual PHYSICAL attraction? Why would there need to be ANY emotional involvement? I would think that any emotional closeness would , in fact, detract from the experience. Talk about the weather, talk about sports, but when you start to tell me your life story, I would be backing waaaaaaay the eff, off.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't swinging ALL about consensual, casual, NSA sex and the methodology for pursuing it? The only requirement being mutual PHYSICAL attraction? Why would there need to be ANY emotional involvement? I would think that any emotional closeness would , in fact, detract from the experience. Talk about the weather, talk about sports, but when you start to tell me your life story, I would be backing waaaaaaay the eff, off.

 

There's no right or wrong answer. It's the initial attraction. It could be flat out physical, or could be a combination of physical and personality. Yeah, if I'm not attracted physically or plain turned off for whatever reason, then personality is not going to tip things. It's not a requirement to know my playmates lifestory to play but we do enjoy repeat encounter so we usually learn more as time goes on. What I do know about myself is that I enjoy some emotional/sensual connection. Pure physical sex is not as enjoyable an experience (but no unenjoyable).

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There's no right or wrong answer. It's the initial attraction. It could be flat out physical, or could be a combination of physical and personality. Yeah, if I'm not attracted physically or plain turned off for whatever reason, then personality is not going to tip things. It's not a requirement to know my playmates lifestory to play but we do enjoy repeat encounter so we usually learn more as time goes on. What I do know about myself is that I enjoy some emotional/sensual connection. Pure physical sex is not as enjoyable an experience (but no unenjoyable).
For me, the chief danger would be getting too close to another couple. I think it would increase the dangers of personality conflicts or boundary violations. What if H-A wants to play with W-B, but H-B isn't interested in W-A, but because they are "friends", they go along with the party or even worse, the marital distinction becomes blurred? If you invest nothing emotionally, then there isn't as likely to be resentment or hurt feelings. I say that friendship and swinging should be kept as far apart as possible.

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For me, the chief danger would be getting too close to another couple. I think it would increase the dangers of personality conflicts or boundary violations. What if H-A wants to play with W-B, but H-B isn't interested in W-A, but because they are "friends", they go along with the party or even worse, the marital distinction becomes blurred? If you invest nothing emotionally, then there isn't as likely to be resentment or hurt feelings. I say that friendship and swinging should be kept as far apart as possible.

 

This has been my initial thoughts of swinging. I have thought getting too close and comfy with play partners may be a bit much. To me it encourages intimacy and that's not something I want with anyone but my spouse.

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Swinging is what swinging is to the individual couple. There are not hard and fast rules as to what swinging is. There are no rules except those set by the couple (or single) involved. If they want straight up FB's that they don't know much about, then that is what they should look for and will likely find. If they want to get to know a couple better, then that is what they should look for. Some will jump into an anonymous orgy where they don't even know the names of people involved, on the other end of the spectrum is poly (or poly-like) relationships. And of course there is everything in between.

 

Is there ANY emotional involvement with "friends"? Sure, but it is no where near the emotional involvement of a lover, or spouse. If there is a likelihood, or even possibility, that a relationship is not strong enough to survive getting to know someone because one party might fall in love, then they shouldn't be swinging to begin with.

 

If getting to know someone is a "danger" for you or takes away from the "experience" then by all means don't do it. You will find people who feel the same. On the other and there are people who feel it adds to the experience and it is not a danger for them. If they want to closer relationship then that is there prerogative. It is unlikely that you two would become playmates in the first place, so I wouldn't worry about it.

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Big rock, it's all a matter of how a person builds the attraction.

 

For many, attraction initially starts with appearance. Then, when you meet, personality takes over, and can either enhance or detract from the initial attraction.

 

If you are able to meet up with someone and have sex without saying a word, then go for it. I would dare say most aren't that way, to each his own.

 

Also depends on the meeting location/premise too, if you are meeting at an on premise club, sex is much more of a primary goal than it is when you meet at some public non takeover location. It would be pretty hard to not talk to some degree if you are meeting out in public. And boring too.

 

 

I can see the view of not wanting to get too close, for the fear of one person realizing that they dont want to do "that" with the other after hearing something unappealing. It can happen, and if someone is just looking for sex and cares not about friendships, then they should avoid those situations.

For those looking for friendships or a deeper connection, it's a risk they take.

 

On the other hand, some people have very little desire to have sex with random people they barely know. They need a buildup of some sort to feel comfortable.

 

So, just play with what works for you. And realize that at times it might change.

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Interesting discussion, the majority lean of this thread so far seems to be towards why would you want to be such good friends as well, or that's just an inexperienced view. Seeing that mine and mrs.parisien (we aren't swingers just curious at this point) outlook is that the only reason to get involved in this would be through meeting up with people who would become our friends as well as anything else. I would have thought someone who knows you better might have better sex with you.

 

Having sex with someone I barely know is really off the wall for me. Emotional attachment or not, it's still a very intimate act, and I would want to choose very carefully. There are all the other issues of discretion, trust, cleanliness and respect also. So I wouldn't really seeing the need for friendship to change, even though this thread kind of implies that it would!

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So we are 18 months into the lifestyle and while we don't use the "friends first" as a requirement we do state in the very first sentence that we are looking for "really great friends with amazing benefits" or something like that.

 

Will we meet a couple and say "wow, they're hot, lets get them in a bedroom!" you better believe it...

 

BUT

 

We ARE very much looking for that one or two couples that will be great friends. We met one such couple and unfortunately we had to move. It took us about five months but we eventually found another couple looking for the same (ps - they have been swinging for 18 + years). There is no exclusiveness expected and we still go out with other couples but about once or twice a month we get together for dinner and drinks. Sometimes there is sex, sometimes it's just fun hanging out.

 

We want that friendship because we want a couple that we can call and say "hey, want to get away this weekend?" and they say "sounds great" and we take off. You know, something you would do with any of your vanilla friends except we want to have sex with them while we are gone. We don't want to get to some place we have never been and "hope" we can find someone to have sex with while we are there.

 

We don't require it but we want everyone to know that's eventually what we are looking for. If they aren't the fit, well, doesn't mean we still can't have fun.

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Interesting discussion, the majority lean of this thread so far seems to be towards why would you want to be such good friends as well, or that's just an inexperienced view. Seeing that mine and mrs.parisien (we aren't swingers just curious at this point) outlook is that the only reason to get involved in this would be through meeting up with people who would become our friends as well as anything else. I would have thought someone who knows you better might have better sex with you.

 

Having sex with someone I barely know is really off the wall for me. Emotional attachment or not, it's still a very intimate act, and I would want to choose very carefully. There are all the other issues of discretion, trust, cleanliness and respect also. So I wouldn't really seeing the need for friendship to change, even though this thread kind of implies that it would!

 

Parisien, don't read too much into this thread as it relates to the general swinging population. First, the range of TAS "time as swinger", commenting in this thread ranges from "have not swung yet" to "many years in th LS". We have been in the LS just over a year ourselves. Second, what people want and who they interact with has a wide range of variance, from anonymous to poly-like and everything in between. This thread is just a snap shot and is no more valid as a gauge of the status of swinging than anything else.

 

For us, we want to get to know people before we play. We started as "friends first" type couple but have gradually move away from that statement a bit. We still want to get to know people before we have sex and certainly enjoy making long term friends in the LS. But what has been frustrating to us is how deep a "friendship" some people want BEFORE playing, even if they have stated that they absolutely want to play with us.

 

For us it is becoming more about striking a happy balance between friends and playing. We still want get to know people before we have sex, but we want to use more of our limited play opportunities to play.

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I see Couples point, but would think that maybe, like everything else, different people will have different definitions of what friendship is. Friendship , to me , is a very intimate emotional and personal bond, and usually comes after long acquaintance. Perhaps a better definition for this thread, would be "comfort-level"? I don't think that I would want to have sex with anyone, whom I was not comfortable with, but I wouldn't take it any further than that.

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We want that friendship because we want a couple that we can call and say "hey, want to get away this weekend?" and they say "sounds great" and we take off. You know, something you would do with any of your vanilla friends except we want to have sex with them while we are gone. We don't want to get to some place we have never been and "hope" we can find someone to have sex with while we are there.

 

If I was fortunate enough to have a willing partner, this is just how I would like to have my lifestyle friends. Of course every relationship is unique, but as a general desire, this would be ideal.

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This is a thought provoking topic. We have developed fwb from our playmates but that is the exception rather than the rule. I agree with the sentiment that we don't have to be friends to boink which is why we've had some of our best times with couples we've met at clubs. Conversely, we have almost completely eliminated the "lets meet for dinner and see what happens" couples because those evenings more often than not are tedious and the equivalent of social dry humping. Over the years, we've come to the conclusion that swinging really is about sex for us. If a friendship happens great, but its no longer a requirement.

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Padoc, I have a question on your elimination of "meeting for dinner".

 

How do you go about this? Do you just not meet prospective new couples at all or do you plan your first meeting at a hotel room or some other onsite capable spot?

 

It sounds like an interesting change of pace to us, although considering our hosting ability is very limited (and we have no clubs here) it leaves us scratching our heads a bit in terms of logistics. We have found that it's very hard to tell by profile alone if we will click with someone, we have to meet them in person. And we wouldnt want to pay up a hotel room just to find that the match is a dud.

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Our preference is to meet a new couple at a club or M&G. We have not totally eliminated the meet for dinner evenings but they have become few and very far between. We will occasionally meet a couple at a bar for drinks. Pictures and email exchanges can be quite deceptive and we've found ourselves trapped at a table with people who in person, have no "curb appeal" for us at all. In the end, rather than be rude, we struggle through an unsatisfying meal and ultimately a wasted evening. At a club or M&G, we can apply our 20/20 rule. Generally speaking, we know within 20 seconds to 20 minutes of meeting a new couple if there is a mutual attraction. If we're at a club or M&G, both couples can move on with neither a loss of face or a blown evening. If there is a connection, then we can move on from there in a positive manner.

 

We don't seek lifelong friends in the lifestyle although it has happened. This is about erotic adventure for us and we find that we just don't require a long "courtship" to get where we're all trying to go.

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