Bad first experience

[artboy]

Soft swapped Art BOY .....<<Why did you reference me???

I have no beef with you, hell ...I dont even know you.....But from what I read..you 4 seem to have very different versions of the same story relating to this issue...either way it makes no difference to us....All I was saying is "We" being newbies would not have like either version of the above story....your side or there side....

Granted they should have understood where and how you stand on the "swinging issues", perhaps their eyes were bigger than there stomach..ya know, they bit off more than they could chew. Like I said it make no difference to us.....but this is an open forum type chat board, which thereby gives me as well as any other registered member the right to speak up, or comment. I made no reference to you or them directly, just added my own .02. Sorry if I offended you, or stepped on your toes, but YOU responded to their generalization, and in doing so maybe you discredited yourself. Once again Im sorry if you feel "picked on" but you openly brought the fight out by being recognized as the other party in this matter. I do not wish to start a flame war with anyone here...Surrender

Lee ans Stacie

[yawanna]

ampussy: From your posts I gather you want us to get the 'context' of the night with the new couple at the house party.

None of us were there, so we have only what we read to go by in forming an opinion or attempting to offer advice or support. From what I've read it seems that you expected to 'play' with the new couple the night of the house party. It also seems, and I see no harm in this, that the new couple were willing to attend a house party to see what that might entail. The four of you never agreed that you would have sex that night. It was an unaddressed assumption...on your part....and a maybe...on their part.

At some point.... the question is asked directly, and the answer, if it is No, is respected. No one need explain themselves or justify their answer. No means No. You were given a No, which you acknowledge, and yet you tried other ways of being sexual with them.

Many of us have seen or experienced couples where the husband is gung ho and the wife is more reticent. The more reticent party is the one to be respected, and the couple's relationship is always to be respected. That means, hands off and give them the time and space to sort out their feelings on what they are seeing and finding out. I don't think him playing with your wife's breasts means jump in the sack ASAP.

I am honestly shocked at the callousness of your comments. These were people NEW to swinging. NEW to a house party. If you didn't check with them beforehand about getting sexual with them as part of your invitation to the house party, then you made assumptions and tried to read into behaviours and responses the Yes that you wanted.

For the new people..here's an example of how that whole situation could have worked. True story:

We were invited by one couple we'd been talking to online for quite some time, to attend a house party. We'd not been to one yet. Another new couple expressed interest, the inviting couple talked with the house party hosts, and we were all invited.

The host couple have been holding house parties for 7 years, and had safe areas, private rooms, an open room, the kitchen stocked with lots of food and non alcoholic beverages, and had a hot tub on an outdoor deck. The living room was a dance area..the kitchen was the safe area. We had also talked beforehand with other swinger friends who have attended these house parties, and got some insight into what to expect regarding the sexual activities, ie: the open room was to play or watch, private rooms were just that - private - no walking through closed doors, etc.

We also talked a fair bit with the other 2 couples beforehand. The inviting couple told us that they were going to be meeting and playing with one or two other couples and may go off to private rooms for a while at first, but said they would be back later to mingle with us. So the new couple and we decided to stick together and just watch what transpired at a house party.

We were quite comfortable there, and decided to hang in the hottub at first. Gawd that was a blast! (sorry...I digress....).

The other new couple...he was all ready to roll and she was quite reticent. She was visibly nervous, and complained to me that a man had grabbed her ass. We took this couple off to a quiet corner and we encouraged her to tell me what was making her nervous, etc. basically getting her to talk about what was going on for her, and discussing how to deal with these situations, with her and her husband.

Our inviting couple did come back as promised, and we checked in with each other about how the other new couple were doing. And we made sure we knew where they were, that they knew where WE were, and that we were there to talk to.

At no time did any of us grope, kiss, get naked, sit on someone's lap, play with someone's breasts, nothing amongst the six of us.
We were brand spanking new and just checking it out, the other new couple; the she was having some reservations about the behaviours around her and toward her, and the inviting couple were respectful and helpful.


Absolutely the worst thing someone could do to a new, nervous couple, no matter what they might have said or implied before they ventured into this new environment, a house party, the worst thing anyone could do is come on to them sexually.

The new nervous couple did come into the hottub with us, and we talked. Nothing more. At one point there were 16 people in that hottub and no one forced themselves on anyone else. Even though there was sexual activity, all in all..... it was very pleasant and not a source of concern for the new nervous couple.... boundaries are boundaries and they were beginning to have theirs' respected.

We have since attended another house party with the inviting couple, and they are friends of ours...the nervous new couple continue on, but much more slowly, as is their right.

No means No. Ask first. Never assume. Respect the couple and their relationship. Be clear, upfront and honest about your expectations. Especially when taking new people into an unknown environment like a house party.

[ampussy]

There was never a no there was a I'm not ready to go in the hot tub that was the only thing close toa no all night and for everyones information we were NOT out to have sex with them our intention was to do exactly what we did and that was to meet the other people there we only weanted to comfort this cpl and Iguess by sitting next to them O.K. my wife sat on his lap but I do beleive she said mind if I sit here? It was when I detected his wife was uneasty I put my hand on her knee and said are you O.K. ? Then the "OVERSEXED" "wanting to get laid" his words not ours newbie hubby grabbed my wifes tits! then he said "my wife wants to see me get a blow job" so who was the oversexed cpl it damn sure wasn't us I am stillwaiting for this NEWGUY555 to tell me exactly what it was I did to think Iwas trying to have sex with her? As amatter of fact we did exactly what they asked when he said what he wanted to see I said to wife "blow him" thats what they wanted at least thats what they said. Ask this new guy55 if there was any time in the evening Imade any sexual cxomments towards his wife ? Where is NEWGUY55 why hasn't he disputed any of what we say? I'lltell you where he is he is sitting behind his computer saying "oh shit I got caught again"! This guy is lying through his nose he loves to wear his white hatr and my wife says he is nothing but a "white hat wearing weasel" People who know us know we are one of the sweetest cpls you would meet but we are through trying to convince anyone of anything we just did not want this internet junkie that has 55 diff profiles to get away with the fabricated lies he posted thats the end period!

[ampussy]

Your right and no we were not attacking you we just was wondering when someone would get to the real reason this all happened in the first palce if you read his first post he says when they met us socially at the dance place they did not thinkwe were for them then why the hell did theysay we want to get together again? Why did they insist on meeting us to go to this party we told them we had never been there they could have just as easily contacted the host we told them the host new they were going and they could have said to us gee your not our type but we are still going to the party. See with HONESTY is best policy had they been honest from the beginning none of this posting wouldhave ever occurred. Everyone feel free to tell us how wrong it was to invite them or how wrong it was to take advantage of them but I stillask the same question where is NEWGUY55 why hasn't he refuted anything I'll tell you why because he knows that he fabricated what happened and we just want to let him know that if he keeps DRAGGING his wife to places and situations she does not want to be it will only get worse! TruceSurrender

[artboy]

Surrender Truce accepted......

Good luck and hope you never get in a situation as this again.



Lee and Stacie

[JustAskJulie]

As we've seen here there are two sides to every story and in every case, both sides are both right and wrong. In their own eyes what each person says is completely right... because it's how they saw it from their end. At the same time both sides is wrong because they were not aware of everything that was really going on on the other end.

Too bad we can't all mind-read.

What we can all do, however, is learn from our mistakes.... and the mistakes of others.

What can we learn from this incident?

- No means no. And once no is said once it should not have to be said again and again. It should stand until the person saying it says otherwise.

- Move at the pace of the slowest person, whoever that person may be.

- Attend every meeting with NO expectations.

- If you aren't interested in someone from the first meeting, don't make a date for a second meeting.

- If you are uncomfortable in a setting, remove yourself from said setting.

- It's not nice to point fingers. This board and others like it are here for a reason. They are here so that people can share their experiences, get advice and learn from them. NewGuy came here and posted their experience asking for advice and feedback. They did not point fingers or name names and chose to use an anonymouse handle, not only to hide their own identity (as we all may choose to do to some extent ) but also to protect the other couple who was involved. Unless you were the other couple (or someone who was there and witnessed the entire story) you would not have any way of knowing who the other couple was (and that's how it should be). Unless of course that other couple comes along and screams "IT WAS US! IT WAS US!"

The funny thing is we've had situations like this handled much better by couples with much bigger problems. I recall a year or so ago when we had two competing threads on almost the identical topic. Until one of the two posters (with the permission of the other) told us that they were both talking about each other, no one had any idea. My point? You could have come here and posted your side of the story in your own thread without naming names and pointing fingers and you probably would have gotten a lot more sympathy for your side of the story, possibly even more than the Newbies just because you posted in more detail. But because you chose to come here and point fingers and name names, you created a bad first impression for those getting to know you in this medium and unless you stick around and join in other areas and change that impression... that is the way that the users here will remember you. I hope you opt to change people's opinion of you for the better.

[artboy]

Very well said and very well handled...

kudos Julie!!!!!

[ampussy]

We survived before this board and will surrive after of course this won't be posting seeing as you are moderating this post. Don't worry about banning us we will leave on our own choosing

[JustAskJulie]

While I moderate all of the forums, I do not censor any of them. That has always been a major sticking point with me (much to some of my moderators chagrin). People are allowed to post what they will. The only things we remove are spam and crap that is posted just to incite flamethrowing.

As I said, I hope you decide to stick around and prove everyone's first impression of you here to be wrong. By leaving you prove that the first impression you gave was the one we should accept.

[ampussy]

We want to see if this NEWGUY55 will ever respond and please let us know just what it was we did we want details we have thick skin if we did something we damn sure wouldlike to know exactly whatwe did so we don't repeat it in the future. Generalization like he posted that "I tried to have sex with his wife just doesn't cut it" a arm around a person or a hand on a knee and the fact that no one ver said "NO" does not constitute trying to have sex in our book! Come on NEWGUY 55 you are totally annoymous lets hear it what did we do that was so wrong or send us a e-mail you know it and explain it privately unfortunately we don't have yours as once you said you wanted nothing to do with us we dumped all info so as not to intrude on your life but when someone approaced us at a party and said did you know what NEWGUY55 said about that night at so and so's party you need to go read it. It was then that we joined swingersboardforum and we were shocked to read the untruths about us. Why we chose not to remain annoymous is that we want to stop this guy from doing this to some other cpl meeet them say they like them they want to have sex with them then see what party theycan wangle thier way into only to say oh we never liked you to begin with we just knew you know where the good parties are! Had we done it annoymously no one would have believed our side see we are not the ones hiding behind 55 diff handles! So we wiill say it one more time newguy55 contact us and let us know what it was we did so wrong. Doesn';t matter now as everyone believes his side thats O.K. we just hope you are not the next victims and if it happens to you you can't that you were not forewarned of course you will never know as you will have to guess who they are just which one of the 55 handles are they using when they contact you if you see or hear about Ampussy you will know its us and its O.K. if you bypass us as we have many true friends who know we are not as this NEWGUY55 described that uncaring cpl we did care otherwise we would have just let them wander around that party that night instead we introduced them to who we knew and attempted to ease them into the lifestyle yes NO means NO but a NO has to be said. This was all explained prior to the party and the issue of sex or no sex between us was discussed. We are not going into any details but this cpl new exactly what the party was going to be like it was just we had the timing wrong. If we knew the first thing they would have seen walking through the door would have been a person giving a blow job we would have never told them about the party. We have been to many parties and that was a first even for us. I'm getting tired of posting so you all can cast the stones and we will just sit here and take the hits. Whatwe would like is to see some kind of response either private or on this board to expalin to us just what it was that was so offensive Julie I send a truce Surrender and willget off our soapboxsoapbox head bang

[jcbicouple]

Not throwing any stones, but if we were the new couple we sure wouldn't reply to you. You've made up your mind that you were right and they were wrong. period.
As Julie said: There are two sides to every story. Each of you saw your own. That's human.
People that are new to this often don't know what they are getting into, they WANT to handle it, but find that they can't right away. They also don't know how to deal with the aggresive nature of people: They want to be polite and say "no" at the same time, and in daily life suttle gestures and a simple "I'm not ready" are definate "No's". In swinging, at times and with some people, that's not enough. Those of us who have been around the block will tell you "I told you No once, next time I tell you I won't be so $%@!$ polite". Newbies often haven't learned how to do that well.
From reading these posts we see two BIG things that happened: Newbie....They obviously had an agreement on what was acceptable behavior and he broke it. (Refer to original post, and that's pretty apparent. going by what they said only.) So, That is probably what REALLY set the poor nervous girl off. Hell that would hurt even the most seasoned people: You don't tell your spouse one thing and then do another, but again they are new, and hopefully will learn that quickly. Hopefully she'll also learn to tell him that what he's doing is unacceptable in a very clear manner.
Experienced couple: Sorry, but if we were the new couple (judging from your side of the story only) we would be uncomfortable with you too. You should of respected the wifes wishes. Sitting on his lap was just flat wrong. Even if HE said it was ok, SHE didn't. You were too pushy. period. As far as them not thinking you were the right couple: Maybe they are just inexperienced enough to think, "well maybe after we get to know them. " Again: We hear that from experienced people, that they don't give up just because they aren't immediately atttracted, and being new they probably aren't as good at being verbally aggresive, as you obviously are.

[ampussy]

Thanks for someone who finally said it like it is that he stepped over the line your still missing one very impotrtant point this cpl met us socially decided they didn't like us but PRETENDED that they did just so they could get a invite to a PRIVATE party re-read his post he admits they wrote us off after the first social meeting then if that was the case why did they keep in contact and wanted us to take them to this party which by the way they made references to us all playing together. It was only after we read what they said on this board that we figured out they didn't really like us and USED us to gain entrance to a PRIVATE party. Don't worry about responding to us as we do not contact a whole lot of people they contact us

[yawanna]

ampussy wrote:

Had a NO been given we wouldhave honored the no we are not mind readers

[B]she said "no I'm not ready"[B]

That right there was your 'no'. Asking permission before doing ANYTHING else was the rule of the day after that

ampussy also wrote:

"She was wearing a shirt with a knot so I playfully attempted to untie it she said "no I'm not ready" so I backed off. I was not about to violate the no means no rule. One thing about no means no you have to say no first (NEWBIES remember that)
people are not mind readers!

Seeing as they did not want to do the hot tub my wife and I decided to to the hot tub. after we got out we went to see how theywere doing they were nervously sitting on the couch we only wanted to help them and seeing as we were the only ones they knew we figured time to see if they were the slight bit interested so my wife came out wrapped ina towel and me seeing alot of other people naked decided no towel and we sat next to the newbie cpl on the couch.


Now we thought we were being very gental trying to introduce them to some touchy feely but I did not do anything accept put my hand on her leg my wife got on his lap (funny same thing newguy55 that happened to you according to your original post).

It was very apparent he liked this and he even played with my wifes tits then made some comment to his wife about not being right him playing with her and her not playing with me as they knew our rules were all play or no play as this was discussed at the first social meeting. The newbie hubby said his wife wanted to see him get a blow job so I told my wife "blow him" Iguess this was toomuch for the newbie wife and she jumped off the couch but only after she let us know in her words" I didn't mean nessecarily your wife" it was at this point we began to feel very very used.
They were nice enough to take thier argument to a back bedroom but there isnothing worse than acpl arguing ata lifestyle party now mind you the host knew we were the ones who invited them so it really made our integrity look bad as normally you would not invite a newbie cpl to a event such as this but we thought this cpls maturity could make uo for thier lack of experince."

Breaking this down:

She was wearing a shirt with a knot so I playfully attempted to untie it she said "no I'm not ready"

theywere doing they were nervously sitting on the couch

so my wife came out wrapped ina towel and me seeing alot of other people naked decided no towel and we sat next to the newbie cpl on the couch.

Now we thought we were being very gental trying to introduce them to some touchy feely

so I told my wife "blow him" Iguess this was toomuch for the newbie wife and she jumped off the couch

They were nice enough to take thier argument to a back bedroom

so it really made our integrity look bad

ampussy: from just these few paragraphs from your many posts we saw 'predator'...intentioned or not.

I've taken a few moments to break it down for you just what was so offensive to us, and how what we read means we felt for the new couple and saw how your behaviour was anything but respectful or taking care for a new couple. Yes context has a part in this...the action started before you arrived. I'm probably not the first or the last woman on earth to walk into a room and see a woman performing fellatio on a man when we'd been invited back for 'a drink'. IF the couple who had invited us back THEN began to behave as you two did...I would have run away, too.

You also seem to care more about how this made you two look to others, and not for the experience of this new couple you say you so 'graciously' chose to bring to the party, and who you claim 'used you' to do what, get to a house party, have a horrible time and run for their lives? Makes NO sense.

[ampussy]

Surrender

[cplnswga]

ONE THING EVERYONE SHOULD ALWAYS REMEMBER NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE WITH A CPL ........ MOST PPL FAIL MIND READING 101 SO YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO SPEAK THE WORD NO!
AND AS MANY HAS SAID PPL GO TO PARTYS TO ENGAGE IN SEXUAL CONTACT NOT TO LED PPL ON SO IN MY OPTION NEVER ATTEND A PARTY IF U ARE NOT FULL SWAP SWINGERS AND LIKE MULTI PARDS!!!

AND THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS ISSUE !