A cautionary tale... Our First Experience

BradAndJanet · 10-07-2002, 04:52 PM

This past weekend we had our first swinging encounter. It did not turn out as we had hoped and I wanted to share a little of what happened so that other newbies might benefit from our experience.

We had been contacted through our ad by a single male. He seemed nice enough and we proceeded cautiously. Both of us chatted with him, online and on the phone. He was soft-spoken, funny and talked a lot about how much he enjoyed pleasing women. We discussed a few of our desires and limits and no 'red flags' popped up during those conversations. We made plans to meet for dinner and possibly more.

Our first mistake (in retrospect) was to allow him to get a room at a motel before we had dinner. Since the place we had planned to meet was closed, and the motel was on the way to the new restaurant we had selected, so we went along with that and even took our things up to the room.

Dinner went well and we decided to go back to the room, as there was nothing about him that gave us any concerns. We both had been nervous about meeting him and because that part was over we began to relax a little and drop our guard (mistake #2).

When we returned to the room, things began to get a little weird. Looking back now it is easy to see that things were getting out of hand, but at the time, with all of this being new to us, we didn't fully realize it. As soon as we entered the room, he began to disrobe. This didn't strike us a too strange; after all we had come there to have sex with him. Then he began to kiss and paw J in a manner that I thought was a little rough, but she seemed to be responding positively to the attention.

This is where mistake #3, perhaps the biggest error, came into play. We had not set up a signal to use between each other if one of us felt uncomfortable or discussed what we would do if that happened. He continued to be fairly rough with her and I did have to caution him about a few things he was attempting to do. She wasn't really enjoying much of it, as I found out later.

In short, as we can see now with 20-20 hindsight, he treated her like a piece of meat, pretty much ignored me and took his own pleasure first. J quickly became too sore to continue and at the first opportunity we said our goodbyes. It was all very bewildering and it was only the next day we that we fully realized what had happened.

I will let J speak about how she feels, but I feel used and angry. I am angry at him for what he did and at myself for not stopping what was happening and for not having a plan to deal with it. I'm not sure if he deliberately took advantage of inexperienced people or was just an incredibly lousy lover.

We're pulling back a bit, as you might imagine, and reassessing ourselves. We're not giving up, because we know from all of you wonderful people here that it's not always going to be that way. But, we are re-examining everything, trying to determine where things went wrong and what to do differently next time. This experience shows us how important it is for a couple to have a strong relationship. This kind of event could tear apart a couple very easily. We are fine, each of us blaming ourselves, but not each other. It is also good that we have talked at length about swinging, what our limits are and what we want to get out of it (although obviously we have more talking to do about some things!)

I posted this for several reasons: first, as a cautionary tale for others, second as a way for me to release my feelings, and third, to ask some questions of the group.

- We have identified some mistakes we have made. Are there any others you can see?

- Has this every happened to you, and if so, what did you do?

- Are many single males this way? Is it likely we would have a better experience with a couple? (I know those are subjective and I'm asking you to make a generalization, but I feel compelled to ask.)

Thanks for listening. I do feel better having composed this post.

-B

C@YWMI · 10-07-2002, 05:22 PM

I'm sorry about your misfortunate expierance. And will heed your advise my wife and I have decided to take the next step from fantasy to reality, thanks again for your warning and honesty

***JustAskJulie*** · 10-07-2002, 05:50 PM

From what I can see it looks like you have already found what your mistakes were.

No, not all single guys are like this, it's sad that you ran into one who was. Obviously he was someone who was there to get his rocks off with no regard to what the other people involved wanted. That should not have happened.

The best thing you can do is (as you already have) learn from these mistakes. Don't put yourself in a position to have sex on the first encounter. Regardless of there having been no red flags prior to going to the hotel room.

1. You might have seen something later looking back that struck you as odd.

2. Talking to him more after dinner via phone/online something might have come up or he might have shown some true colors (ie. being perturbed that you didn't have sex with him at the first meeting, etc).

I think sometimes we feel pressured into situations. Like for instance, knowing that he had a room, you dropped your things off there before you even had dinner with him. Having already left your things there meant you had to go back to his room regardless of your plans. So you may have in a way pressured yourself into something.

Quin · 10-07-2002, 06:38 PM

Wow, sorry that your first experience was not a good one, BradandJanet.

I think you realize your first and probably most fatal error...letting him get the room beforehand and dropping your things off there before dinner. That doesn't provide you much of an out if you had decided during dinner, that things weren't going well unless of course you reimbursed him for the room when backing out, but then how is that done tactfully? It really isn't. This automatically puts strings on the meeting. Julie is correct, you left yourself no means of an easy way out.

I think many here will agree that having dinner at least twice or maybe dinner one time then drinks at a club (doesn't have to be a swing club, could be a nightclub, out of the way tavern, hotel bar <Marriot has excellent hotel bars exactly for this> whatever) where you're a bit more freer to flirt and *play* a little is the best way to go. While you may *click* with someone or a couple thru email and on the phone, meeting the first time in person that *click* may disappear quickly. By not making firm sexual commitments (such as someone getting a room beforehand), you're free to graciously excuse yourself and go home should you find things not working as you had hoped or planned.

I, personally, like dinner the first time specifically with the understanding that everyone will go home afterwards. That allows the two of you to talk and find out if there may possibly be an still be attraction there...then a club for the next meeting. By that time, you should be a little more relaxed with the person/couple and the club atmosphere allows you more space and anonymity in the establishment to flirt, talk, dance, etc with the person/couple whereas you don't have that space and anonymity in a restaurant. You also have the opportunity moreso at a club than a restaurant without being overtly obvious for you and Janet to get together away from the couple/person and decide if this is a go or a no go.

Is there a specific reason you chose a single male instead of maybe a couple? Personally, I don't think you'll necessarily run into the problems with a couple as you did this man. And if you decide to go with a couple, maybe the first time you may just want to soft swing (having sex with your own respective partners in the same room) just to become comfortable in having others around while you're indulging then the next time swap partners. Many couples within swinging will take the time with you if you explain that you're basically new to all this, and will take things at your speed. Sorry to say, probably 99% of the single males won't.

There are a lot of things you both need to discuss and rethink as I'm sure others here will chime in with their recommendations and advice.

I hope your next time, when that time comes, is much more enjoyable for both of you as it should be something to enjoy! <img border="0" alt="[kiss]" title="" src="graemlins/kiss1.gif" />

Quin
<img border="0" alt="[Smiley_sex]" title="" src="graemlins/smilysex.gif" />

dave_susie2001 · 10-07-2002, 08:03 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JustAskJulie:
 Don't put yourself in a position to have sex on the first encounter. Regardless of there having been no red flags prior to going to the hotel room.
<hr /></blockquote>Exactly. Very well stated.

Brad and Janet,
Susie and I are sorry that your first experience was such a bad one. We all have had swinging encounters that weren't the best of times. We were lucky in that our first encounter was at least average and didn't turn us off of swinging.

After 2 years of thinking about it, and meets and greets, we actually took the plunge just over a year ago and we haven't looked back. Our sexual experiences have been varied, but in general they just keep getting better and better. Partly because I think the longer that we do this, Susie and I are more in tune with what we both want out of swinging.

Julie was exactly right when she said what she did about putting yourselves in a position to have sex on the first meet. As much as you have talked and chatted with a potential playmate (s) you really don't know until you actually meet them what they will be like. We're big on body language. It speaks volumes about yourself. Even when you actually do meet and you're SURE that you would like to play...it's usually best if you don't that first time. Give youselves a chance to discuss the encounter with each other and express your true desires and feelings when you're thinking a bit more clearly.

We have met two couples from this board alone in the last couple of months. As much as we flirted and wanted to play, we knew that we shouldn't. And we didn't. But when we were alone we discussed it together...which consisted of the following exchange of dialog:

Dave: What do you think?
Susie: I like them. You?
Dave: Yep. So it's a go the next time if they're up for it?
Susie: Yep.
Dave: Ok.

Your exchange of dialog may be a little more detailed than ours <img border="0" alt="[ROFL]" title="" src="graemlins/rofl.gif" /> and if you are new to the lifestyle...it should be.

Bottom line guys...it looks like you've identified what you feel you did wrong and you've learned from it. You're relationship with each other sounds like it is strong and can handle these little speed bumps in the road. Remember that there are bad apples out there just like in everyday life. We've met some of them. But we've also met some of the finest people we know in this lifestyle. People that I would give the shirt off my back. And my pants...shorts...etc <img border="0" alt="[ROFL]" title="" src="graemlins/rofl.gif" />

Don't let this experience get you down. In our humble opinion, swinging is the greatest thing that has ever happened to us in terms of our relationship. It's worth the occasional less than perfect experience to get to the wonderful friendships and mind blowing sex.

Good luck!

**TNT** · 10-07-2002, 10:03 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by BradAndJanet:
[QB] Then he began to kiss and paw J in a manner that I thought was a little rough, but she seemed to be responding positively to the attention.

This is where mistake #3, perhaps the biggest error, came into play. We had not set up a signal to use between each other if one of us felt uncomfortable or discussed what we would do if that happened. He continued to be fairly rough with her and I did have to caution him about a few things he was attempting to do. She wasn't really enjoying much of it, as I found out later. <hr /></blockquote>The only thing that I would like to add to all the previous post, and I fully agree with all of them, is that in this situation it does not matter what was agreed upon before hand, if you get into a situation where you or your spouse is uncomfortable in any way, don't ever be afraid to speak up, either of you. If once you have voiced your concerns and things still are not going in the direction you feel comfortable in, LEAVE, immedately. All you have to say is sorry, this is not working, put your clothes on and get out.

I am sorry that your first experience was not a good one, but I can assure you that not all single men are like this, as we play with quite a few of them and they have all been very respectful of both of us.

Hang in there, learn from your mistakes and go forward.

Good luck,

Teresa

HARLEY &LEXI · 10-07-2002, 11:10 PM

WE ARE ALSO NEW TO THE LIFESTYLE AND HAVE LEARNED A FEW THINGS.
#1 - Try going to a swingers club where you can meet people face to face and where there is security.
#2 - Don't ever meet strangers at a hotel room (VERY DANGEROUS: ie: rape, cameras, even murder!!) Not to mention you went to his territory instead of having your own.
#3 - Definitely learn to signal each other when one feels uncomfortable.
#4 - Please don't let this bad experience taint your desire to continue this lifestyle. We, on the other hand, have only been in the lifestyle for a month, but have thankfully not had any negative experiences. Good Luck !!!!!!! <img border="0" alt="[Kissing]" title="" src="graemlins/kissing.gif" />

OhioCouple · 10-08-2002, 08:47 PM

Sounds like you did your homework Harley and Lexi! Great advice. As you have only been actively swinging for a month, where did you get your info/advice. On this board or one like it? Or through other experienced swingers?

BradAndJanet · 10-08-2002, 09:31 PM

Thanks for the advice everybody, we really do appreciate it. The bottom line is we got over excited, went too fast and paid the price (or I should say J did, for which I feel about an inch tall.)

Next time we will take it much more slowly. We'll have dinner first with no expectations, maybe a little flirting in a safe place and perhaps soft swinging on the next meeting if things proceed. I particularly like the soft swing idea, as it will give us some idea of what kind of lovers they are. We have already decided on a 'stop' signal and we won't be afraid to speak up next time things get uncomfortable.

Quin, to answer your question, we chose a single male for two reasons. One, an MFM is a fantasy we both have and two, we have had a lot of difficulty meeting real couples online (not unlike what we have heard from everyone else.) This seemed like a good way to have some fun fulfilling our fantasy, and obviously single males abound. We're still shy about going to a club where we don't know anyone, but that is starting to look like a safer and more attractive alternative.

J says, "Thanks!", too and wants to post some of her thoughts here, but also says the feelings are too raw and that she's still sorting things out.

-B

curious24 · 10-09-2002, 09:53 PM

great another jackass single male ruing my reputation... <img border="0" alt="[sad]" title="" src="graemlins/sad.gif" />

I'm glad to hear that you won't let this one experience stop your exploring. That still leaves some hope for us nice guys out there

Sin D · 10-15-2002, 11:44 AM

sorry to hear that your "first time" was a bad experience. like some of the other posts, here are some things that have helped us:

1. however you communicate with them, do it until you both feel comfortable with the "read" you get on their personality.
2. never meet a stranger on their ground. meet in a public place, and if everything works out...and they are what you expected...you can then invite them to join you if you both choose to.
3. have a signal system between you, both for the initial go-ahead (if needed) and a distress signal.
4. your partner is the most important thing in any situation...if someone ignors either of your wishes...or things get out of hand...leave.

most of these were already covered, but that's our 2 cents worth. it sounds like you have learned these lessons the hard way. good luck in the future.

L&K · 10-15-2002, 04:14 PM

Well your not alone in your story , our first and last attemp at full swing sounds just like your story , though we were with a couple , the male half was just like the single fellow you ran into . we too did not have it together with signals though we had dicussed them , they were lost in the moment of need . Things went much better with our second couple and it was soft swing only . S the female here , didnt feel she should stop things at the point she became uncomfortable , even our second event went a little like that but not with terrible results as had happened the first time . Ladies have to speak up , if your not having fun bail out of the situation, you do not OWE the person any thing , if they can not respect your limits and interest then to bad for them , dont let it become to bad for you .

M

10-19-2002, 08:02 PM

Sorry you had that bad experience, chalk it up to a lesson learned. My gf and I aren't HC swingers but we love to go to the sex clubs and go a little bit beyond stictly soft core. She (and I) like to be watched and she'll often give me a blow job while she's on all fours with her ass up in the air, legs spread back arched etc. Our boundaries where firmly set, we did not want to have intercourse with anyone else. A guy approached and started going down on her from behind, no problem. Then he started to mount her for intercourse and she pulled away at the same time I waved him off. He moved along, no problem. But when we discussed it, she said that she "was asking for it" but the position she was it, with her butt up. I said, "wait a minute". That's not what this is all about. You can wave your ass in the face of anyone you want to at a sex (swingers) club, you make the boundaries. The lesson here is that women need to understand that just because they're naked and in provocative position in a place where sex is totally acceptable, it doesn't mean that they're "free meat". She now understands. completely. Women: please understand this, you decide how far to go and you will be respected. If not, I'll open up a can of whoop ass!!

dave_susie2001 · 10-20-2002, 09:09 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by <User>:
Sorry you had that bad experience, chalk it up to a lesson learned. My gf and I aren't HC swingers but we love to go to the sex clubs and go a little bit beyond stictly soft core. She (and I) like to be watched and she'll often give me a blow job while she's on all fours with her ass up in the air, legs spread back arched etc. Our boundaries where firmly set, we did not want to have intercourse with anyone else. A guy approached and started going down on her from behind, no problem. Then he started to mount her for intercourse and she pulled away at the same time I waved him off. He moved along, no problem. But when we discussed it, she said that she "was asking for it" but the position she was it, with her butt up. I said, "wait a minute". That's not what this is all about. You can wave your ass in the face of anyone you want to at a sex (swingers) club, you make the boundaries. The lesson here is that women need to understand that just because they're naked and in provocative position in a place where sex is totally acceptable, it doesn't mean that they're "free meat". She now understands. completely. Women: please understand this, you decide how far to go and you will be respected. If not, I'll open up a can of whoop ass!!<hr /></blockquote>My friend, I think you need to register here and become a regular poster. Your post is exactly the kind of story I like to hear.

Now, I don't falult the guy for wanting to mount your GF, but I do fault him for not checking with you both to make sure it was OK before trying. And you both did the right thing by waving him off, and he did the right thing by stopping.

You were in a club where people understand the "No means No" rule. This is how it's supposed to be done, and to the credit of vast majority of swingers, this is how the lifestyle works.

Like I said at the beginning of this post...you need to register my friend.

***JustAskJulie*** · 10-20-2002, 04:32 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by <User>:
 But when we discussed it, she said that she "was asking for it" but the position she was it, with her butt up. I said, "wait a minute". That's not what this is all about. You can wave your ass in the face of anyone you want to at a sex (swingers) club, you make the boundaries. The lesson here is that women need to understand that just because they're naked and in provocative position in a place where sex is totally acceptable, it doesn't mean that they're "free meat". She now understands. completely. Women: please understand this, you decide how far to go and you will be respected. If not, I'll open up a can of whoop ass!!<hr /></blockquote>This is an interesting slant to this whole thing and something that I don't think has ever really come up here.

I really thinks this idea that we (as women) may often feel like we have to go through with something because of the position we are in or the fact that we are already there ass-out naked, comes from things that have been grilled into us since childhood.

Whenever a woman gets raped and tries to go to court they defense always tries to find a way to show that she was "asking for it". I can recall many times my mother making comments to me about things I wore saying that I was just "asking to get raped". ETC.

It's funny how our society claims that "no means no" but when it comes down to it they always want to prove that "no meant maybe".

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10-07-2002, 04:52 PM	#1 (permalink)
BradAndJanet Only slightly cracked... Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 7,071 Location: Seattle Status: Married Couple	A cautionary tale... Our First Experience This past weekend we had our first swinging encounter. It did not turn out as we had hoped and I wanted to share a little of what happened so that other newbies might benefit from our experience. We had been contacted through our ad by a single male. He seemed nice enough and we proceeded cautiously. Both of us chatted with him, online and on the phone. He was soft-spoken, funny and talked a lot about how much he enjoyed pleasing women. We discussed a few of our desires and limits and no 'red flags' popped up during those conversations. We made plans to meet for dinner and possibly more. Our first mistake (in retrospect) was to allow him to get a room at a motel before we had dinner. Since the place we had planned to meet was closed, and the motel was on the way to the new restaurant we had selected, so we went along with that and even took our things up to the room. Dinner went well and we decided to go back to the room, as there was nothing about him that gave us any concerns. We both had been nervous about meeting him and because that part was over we began to relax a little and drop our guard (mistake #2). When we returned to the room, things began to get a little weird. Looking back now it is easy to see that things were getting out of hand, but at the time, with all of this being new to us, we didn't fully realize it. As soon as we entered the room, he began to disrobe. This didn't strike us a too strange; after all we had come there to have sex with him. Then he began to kiss and paw J in a manner that I thought was a little rough, but she seemed to be responding positively to the attention. This is where mistake #3, perhaps the biggest error, came into play. We had not set up a signal to use between each other if one of us felt uncomfortable or discussed what we would do if that happened. He continued to be fairly rough with her and I did have to caution him about a few things he was attempting to do. She wasn't really enjoying much of it, as I found out later. In short, as we can see now with 20-20 hindsight, he treated her like a piece of meat, pretty much ignored me and took his own pleasure first. J quickly became too sore to continue and at the first opportunity we said our goodbyes. It was all very bewildering and it was only the next day we that we fully realized what had happened. I will let J speak about how she feels, but I feel used and angry. I am angry at him for what he did and at myself for not stopping what was happening and for not having a plan to deal with it. I'm not sure if he deliberately took advantage of inexperienced people or was just an incredibly lousy lover. We're pulling back a bit, as you might imagine, and reassessing ourselves. We're not giving up, because we know from all of you wonderful people here that it's not always going to be that way. But, we are re-examining everything, trying to determine where things went wrong and what to do differently next time. This experience shows us how important it is for a couple to have a strong relationship. This kind of event could tear apart a couple very easily. We are fine, each of us blaming ourselves, but not each other. It is also good that we have talked at length about swinging, what our limits are and what we want to get out of it (although obviously we have more talking to do about some things!) I posted this for several reasons: first, as a cautionary tale for others, second as a way for me to release my feelings, and third, to ask some questions of the group. - We have identified some mistakes we have made. Are there any others you can see? - Has this every happened to you, and if so, what did you do? - Are many single males this way? Is it likely we would have a better experience with a couple? (I know those are subjective and I'm asking you to make a generalization, but I feel compelled to ask.) Thanks for listening. I do feel better having composed this post. -B
	__________________ "If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain All about us...

10-07-2002, 05:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
C@YWMI Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 241 Location: West Michigan Status: couple	I'm sorry about your misfortunate expierance. And will heed your advise my wife and I have decided to take the next step from fantasy to reality, thanks again for your warning and honesty
	__________________ Nothing fails like success. Gerald Nachman

10-07-2002, 05:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
*JustAskJulie* Your Hostess Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 29,294 Location: In my House Status: Female Swing Lifestyle Name:swingersboard	From what I can see it looks like you have already found what your mistakes were. No, not all single guys are like this, it's sad that you ran into one who was. Obviously he was someone who was there to get his rocks off with no regard to what the other people involved wanted. That should not have happened. The best thing you can do is (as you already have) learn from these mistakes. Don't put yourself in a position to have sex on the first encounter. Regardless of there having been no red flags prior to going to the hotel room. 1. You might have seen something later looking back that struck you as odd. 2. Talking to him more after dinner via phone/online something might have come up or he might have shown some true colors (ie. being perturbed that you didn't have sex with him at the first meeting, etc). I think sometimes we feel pressured into situations. Like for instance, knowing that he had a room, you dropped your things off there before you even had dinner with him. Having already left your things there meant you had to go back to his room regardless of your plans. So you may have in a way pressured yourself into something.
	__________________ Julie - your hostess The Swinger Manual - all the info from the Swingers Board in one convenient book

10-07-2002, 06:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
Quin Swingers Board Addict Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,136 Location: Ohio Status: Single Female	Wow, sorry that your first experience was not a good one, BradandJanet. I think you realize your first and probably most fatal error...letting him get the room beforehand and dropping your things off there before dinner. That doesn't provide you much of an out if you had decided during dinner, that things weren't going well unless of course you reimbursed him for the room when backing out, but then how is that done tactfully? It really isn't. This automatically puts strings on the meeting. Julie is correct, you left yourself no means of an easy way out. I think many here will agree that having dinner at least twice or maybe dinner one time then drinks at a club (doesn't have to be a swing club, could be a nightclub, out of the way tavern, hotel bar <Marriot has excellent hotel bars exactly for this> whatever) where you're a bit more freer to flirt and play a little is the best way to go. While you may click with someone or a couple thru email and on the phone, meeting the first time in person that click may disappear quickly. By not making firm sexual commitments (such as someone getting a room beforehand), you're free to graciously excuse yourself and go home should you find things not working as you had hoped or planned. I, personally, like dinner the first time specifically with the understanding that everyone will go home afterwards. That allows the two of you to talk and find out if there may possibly be an still be attraction there...then a club for the next meeting. By that time, you should be a little more relaxed with the person/couple and the club atmosphere allows you more space and anonymity in the establishment to flirt, talk, dance, etc with the person/couple whereas you don't have that space and anonymity in a restaurant. You also have the opportunity moreso at a club than a restaurant without being overtly obvious for you and Janet to get together away from the couple/person and decide if this is a go or a no go. Is there a specific reason you chose a single male instead of maybe a couple? Personally, I don't think you'll necessarily run into the problems with a couple as you did this man. And if you decide to go with a couple, maybe the first time you may just want to soft swing (having sex with your own respective partners in the same room) just to become comfortable in having others around while you're indulging then the next time swap partners. Many couples within swinging will take the time with you if you explain that you're basically new to all this, and will take things at your speed. Sorry to say, probably 99% of the single males won't. There are a lot of things you both need to discuss and rethink as I'm sure others here will chime in with their recommendations and advice. I hope your next time, when that time comes, is much more enjoyable for both of you as it should be something to enjoy! <img border="0" alt="[kiss]" title="" src="graemlins/kiss1.gif" /> Quin <img border="0" alt="[Smiley_sex]" title="" src="graemlins/smilysex.gif" />
	__________________ One thing about me is that I'm consistant in my behavior, my thoughts, and my posting. I don't sell out or change for any reason outside of my own self wanting to. What you see is what you get: today, tomorrow and every day after that.

10-07-2002, 08:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
dave_susie2001 Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 284 Location: Michigan Status: Married Couple	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JustAskJulie: <strong> Don't put yourself in a position to have sex on the first encounter. Regardless of there having been no red flags prior to going to the hotel room. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly. Very well stated. Brad and Janet, Susie and I are sorry that your first experience was such a bad one. We all have had swinging encounters that weren't the best of times. We were lucky in that our first encounter was at least average and didn't turn us off of swinging. After 2 years of thinking about it, and meets and greets, we actually took the plunge just over a year ago and we haven't looked back. Our sexual experiences have been varied, but in general they just keep getting better and better. Partly because I think the longer that we do this, Susie and I are more in tune with what we both want out of swinging. Julie was exactly right when she said what she did about putting yourselves in a position to have sex on the first meet. As much as you have talked and chatted with a potential playmate (s) you really don't know until you actually meet them what they will be like. We're big on body language. It speaks volumes about yourself. Even when you actually do meet and you're SURE that you would like to play...it's usually best if you don't that first time. Give youselves a chance to discuss the encounter with each other and express your true desires and feelings when you're thinking a bit more clearly. We have met two couples from this board alone in the last couple of months. As much as we flirted and wanted to play, we knew that we shouldn't. And we didn't. But when we were alone we discussed it together...which consisted of the following exchange of dialog: Dave: What do you think? Susie: I like them. You? Dave: Yep. So it's a go the next time if they're up for it? Susie: Yep. Dave: Ok. Your exchange of dialog may be a little more detailed than ours <img border="0" alt="[ROFL]" title="" src="graemlins/rofl.gif" /> and if you are new to the lifestyle...it should be. Bottom line guys...it looks like you've identified what you feel you did wrong and you've learned from it. You're relationship with each other sounds like it is strong and can handle these little speed bumps in the road. Remember that there are bad apples out there just like in everyday life. We've met some of them. But we've also met some of the finest people we know in this lifestyle. People that I would give the shirt off my back. And my pants...shorts...etc <img border="0" alt="[ROFL]" title="" src="graemlins/rofl.gif" /> Don't let this experience get you down. In our humble opinion, swinging is the greatest thing that has ever happened to us in terms of our relationship. It's worth the occasional less than perfect experience to get to the wonderful friendships and mind blowing sex. Good luck!

10-07-2002, 10:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
TNT Julie's Helper Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 5,003 Location: baker, fl, usa Status: couple Swing Lifestyle Name:tblonde312	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by BradAndJanet: [QB] Then he began to kiss and paw J in a manner that I thought was a little rough, but she seemed to be responding positively to the attention. This is where mistake #3, perhaps the biggest error, came into play. We had not set up a signal to use between each other if one of us felt uncomfortable or discussed what we would do if that happened. He continued to be fairly rough with her and I did have to caution him about a few things he was attempting to do. She wasn't really enjoying much of it, as I found out later. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The only thing that I would like to add to all the previous post, and I fully agree with all of them, is that in this situation it does not matter what was agreed upon before hand, if you get into a situation where you or your spouse is uncomfortable in any way, don't ever be afraid to speak up, either of you. If once you have voiced your concerns and things still are not going in the direction you feel comfortable in, LEAVE, immedately. All you have to say is sorry, this is not working, put your clothes on and get out. I am sorry that your first experience was not a good one, but I can assure you that not all single men are like this, as we play with quite a few of them and they have all been very respectful of both of us. Hang in there, learn from your mistakes and go forward. Good luck, Teresa
	__________________ Ted and Teresa No lifetime is enough unless you live it in such a way as to make it enough.

10-07-2002, 11:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
HARLEY &LEXI Registered Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 6 Location: SLIDELL, LA.	WE ARE ALSO NEW TO THE LIFESTYLE AND HAVE LEARNED A FEW THINGS. #1 - Try going to a swingers club where you can meet people face to face and where there is security. #2 - Don't ever meet strangers at a hotel room (VERY DANGEROUS: ie: rape, cameras, even murder!!) Not to mention you went to his territory instead of having your own. #3 - Definitely learn to signal each other when one feels uncomfortable. #4 - Please don't let this bad experience taint your desire to continue this lifestyle. We, on the other hand, have only been in the lifestyle for a month, but have thankfully not had any negative experiences. Good Luck !!!!!!! <img border="0" alt="[Kissing]" title="" src="graemlins/kissing.gif" />

10-08-2002, 08:47 PM	#8 (permalink)
OhioCouple Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,619 Location: Ohio Status: Married Female	Sounds like you did your homework Harley and Lexi! Great advice. As you have only been actively swinging for a month, where did you get your info/advice. On this board or one like it? Or through other experienced swingers?
	__________________ Remember that human beings are complicated creatures. We like our bedtime routines but dislike routine in our bed times. - Sallie Foley, M.S.W.

10-08-2002, 09:31 PM	#9 (permalink)
BradAndJanet Only slightly cracked... Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 7,071 Location: Seattle Status: Married Couple	Thanks for the advice everybody, we really do appreciate it. The bottom line is we got over excited, went too fast and paid the price (or I should say J did, for which I feel about an inch tall.) Next time we will take it much more slowly. We'll have dinner first with no expectations, maybe a little flirting in a safe place and perhaps soft swinging on the next meeting if things proceed. I particularly like the soft swing idea, as it will give us some idea of what kind of lovers they are. We have already decided on a 'stop' signal and we won't be afraid to speak up next time things get uncomfortable. Quin, to answer your question, we chose a single male for two reasons. One, an MFM is a fantasy we both have and two, we have had a lot of difficulty meeting real couples online (not unlike what we have heard from everyone else.) This seemed like a good way to have some fun fulfilling our fantasy, and obviously single males abound. We're still shy about going to a club where we don't know anyone, but that is starting to look like a safer and more attractive alternative. J says, "Thanks!", too and wants to post some of her thoughts here, but also says the feelings are too raw and that she's still sorting things out. -B
	__________________ "If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything." - Mark Twain All about us...

10-09-2002, 09:53 PM	#10 (permalink)
curious24 Swingers Board Addict Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 696 Location: austin, tx Status: Single Male	great another jackass single male ruing my reputation... <img border="0" alt="[sad]" title="" src="graemlins/sad.gif" /> I'm glad to hear that you won't let this one experience stop your exploring. That still leaves some hope for us nice guys out there
	__________________ Rules for swinging By curiousagain. My Interview

10-15-2002, 11:44 AM	#11 (permalink)
Sin D Here to Stay Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 46 Location: U.P. MI Status: couple	sorry to hear that your "first time" was a bad experience. like some of the other posts, here are some things that have helped us: 1. however you communicate with them, do it until you both feel comfortable with the "read" you get on their personality. 2. never meet a stranger on their ground. meet in a public place, and if everything works out...and they are what you expected...you can then invite them to join you if you both choose to. 3. have a signal system between you, both for the initial go-ahead (if needed) and a distress signal. 4. your partner is the most important thing in any situation...if someone ignors either of your wishes...or things get out of hand...leave. most of these were already covered, but that's our 2 cents worth. it sounds like you have learned these lessons the hard way. good luck in the future.
	__________________ And when you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.

10-15-2002, 04:14 PM	#12 (permalink)
L&K Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 197 Location: michigan Status: couple	Well your not alone in your story , our first and last attemp at full swing sounds just like your story , though we were with a couple , the male half was just like the single fellow you ran into . we too did not have it together with signals though we had dicussed them , they were lost in the moment of need . Things went much better with our second couple and it was soft swing only . S the female here , didnt feel she should stop things at the point she became uncomfortable , even our second event went a little like that but not with terrible results as had happened the first time . Ladies have to speak up , if your not having fun bail out of the situation, you do not OWE the person any thing , if they can not respect your limits and interest then to bad for them , dont let it become to bad for you . M

10-19-2002, 08:02 PM	#13 (permalink)
<User> Guest Posts: n/a	Sorry you had that bad experience, chalk it up to a lesson learned. My gf and I aren't HC swingers but we love to go to the sex clubs and go a little bit beyond stictly soft core. She (and I) like to be watched and she'll often give me a blow job while she's on all fours with her ass up in the air, legs spread back arched etc. Our boundaries where firmly set, we did not want to have intercourse with anyone else. A guy approached and started going down on her from behind, no problem. Then he started to mount her for intercourse and she pulled away at the same time I waved him off. He moved along, no problem. But when we discussed it, she said that she "was asking for it" but the position she was it, with her butt up. I said, "wait a minute". That's not what this is all about. You can wave your ass in the face of anyone you want to at a sex (swingers) club, you make the boundaries. The lesson here is that women need to understand that just because they're naked and in provocative position in a place where sex is totally acceptable, it doesn't mean that they're "free meat". She now understands. completely. Women: please understand this, you decide how far to go and you will be respected. If not, I'll open up a can of whoop ass!!
<User> Guest Posts: n/a

10-20-2002, 09:09 AM	#14 (permalink)
dave_susie2001 Swingers Board Addict Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 284 Location: Michigan Status: Married Couple	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by <User>: <strong>Sorry you had that bad experience, chalk it up to a lesson learned. My gf and I aren't HC swingers but we love to go to the sex clubs and go a little bit beyond stictly soft core. She (and I) like to be watched and she'll often give me a blow job while she's on all fours with her ass up in the air, legs spread back arched etc. Our boundaries where firmly set, we did not want to have intercourse with anyone else. A guy approached and started going down on her from behind, no problem. Then he started to mount her for intercourse and she pulled away at the same time I waved him off. He moved along, no problem. But when we discussed it, she said that she "was asking for it" but the position she was it, with her butt up. I said, "wait a minute". That's not what this is all about. You can wave your ass in the face of anyone you want to at a sex (swingers) club, you make the boundaries. The lesson here is that women need to understand that just because they're naked and in provocative position in a place where sex is totally acceptable, it doesn't mean that they're "free meat". She now understands. completely. Women: please understand this, you decide how far to go and you will be respected. If not, I'll open up a can of whoop ass!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My friend, I think you need to register here and become a regular poster. Your post is exactly the kind of story I like to hear. Now, I don't falult the guy for wanting to mount your GF, but I do fault him for not checking with you both to make sure it was OK before trying. And you both did the right thing by waving him off, and he did the right thing by stopping. You were in a club where people understand the "No means No" rule. This is how it's supposed to be done, and to the credit of vast majority of swingers, this is how the lifestyle works. Like I said at the beginning of this post...you need to register my friend.

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10-20-2002, 04:32 PM	#15 (permalink)
*JustAskJulie* Your Hostess Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 29,294 Location: In my House Status: Female Swing Lifestyle Name:swingersboard	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by <User>: <strong> But when we discussed it, she said that she "was asking for it" but the position she was it, with her butt up. I said, "wait a minute". That's not what this is all about. You can wave your ass in the face of anyone you want to at a sex (swingers) club, you make the boundaries. The lesson here is that women need to understand that just because they're naked and in provocative position in a place where sex is totally acceptable, it doesn't mean that they're "free meat". She now understands. completely. Women: please understand this, you decide how far to go and you will be respected. If not, I'll open up a can of whoop ass!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is an interesting slant to this whole thing and something that I don't think has ever really come up here. I really thinks this idea that we (as women) may often feel like we have to go through with something because of the position we are in or the fact that we are already there ass-out naked, comes from things that have been grilled into us since childhood. Whenever a woman gets raped and tries to go to court they defense always tries to find a way to show that she was "asking for it". I can recall many times my mother making comments to me about things I wore saying that I was just "asking to get raped". ETC. It's funny how our society claims that "no means no" but when it comes down to it they always want to prove that "no meant maybe".
	__________________ Julie - your hostess The Swinger Manual - all the info from the Swingers Board in one convenient book

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