First Time Last Saturday (Tame MFM) - Have Questions

[blue.freckles]

well after many months about talking about "taking the plunge", my wife and i had a SUPER soft swing this last saturday...

we went out to a vanilla club with some friends this last saturday and my wife (pink.freckles on here) and one of my best buddies and i have been joking about messing around for awhile now..

anyway, here we go:

Pink dresssed up really cute, (she got a new outfit) so her, Friend (i'll call him this) and I met our other friends at the club.. after a few cocktails it was decided that we should dance (we're all very dancey people).. Friend became handsy with all the ladies in our group, but seemed extremely focused on Pink... the night continued this way for several hours... towards the end of the night, i told Pink that i thought she wasnt showing me enough attention.. Friend made out with my ex girlfriend who is a good friend to all of us and they have a brief history with each other.. dancing continued until close, Pink continued to not really pay attention to me..

On the way to the car, i jokingly said "Pink, you should sit in the back of the car and make out with Friend" but she sat next to me in the passenger seat and smiled.. about half way home, Friend started massaging Pink's back and then started feeling her breasts over her coat; she seemed very ok with this behavior.. he jokingly tried to kiss her but her seat was inclined too much.. he popped the recling button and she just laughed and leaned back... he leaned forward and they started making out, her smiling the entire time.. he was pretty sloshy and feeling confident so he once again reached for her breasts and went inside her coat this time and then inside her bra... they made out the entire way home..

once we got home and parked, Friend and i got sick once the cold air hit us, me more for the reason that we mixed entirely too many different kinds of drinks and my stomach felt unsettled, and him because he was drunk..

anyway, we got into our house and i turned on the tv (i didnt know what else to do! haha) and started watching shows that i had taped previously in the week... their kissing continued until Friend needed to go and be sick again in the kitchen sink... while he was there, i said to Pink "go put some stockings on".. she jumped up and ran to the room without giving it a second thought and returned before Friend was finished being sick.. she sat next to me and upon his return, he was awed that her legs now had his favorite sexy woman adornments on...

they continued to kiss and he was feeling her breasts through her shirt (she changed into short little spanky's, a tank top and the stockings) and then in her shirt.. he tried feeling her pussy through her shorts but she pushed his hand away... one more time he tried it while her hand was there, but then she moved her hand so that it was around his neck... his hand tried one more time and she let it linger there for a moment before she said "no no Friend" but in a kind, flirty way...

kissing continued to happen and then i took her shirt off.. his eyes were bulging at this point before he went in for more smooching.. then, out of bhe blue, stupid me says "well, if you're just going to let him play with them without seeing them, you're being too unfair" so i reached up and unclipped her bra... she became defensive immediately and the kissing pretty much ended there... he tried to go up her leg one more time but after she shunned him, i said to her "time for me to have some fun in the bedroom" and he smiled and told us to go in there and have fun...

we went into the bedroom and it old her she was a bad girl and when i went to feel her, she was drenched (and she never gets drenched anymore)... i got her naked and went down on her and in between licks and sucks, i told her that she was my whore and she agreed.. after she was really getting into it, i told her that i was going to wake up friend and have him come in and fuck her.. she said that she needed to be fucked.. i pressed on and told her that she was a whore and that if i got Friend to fuck her, then things would change and that she would have to fuck anyone i wanted her to.. she agreed that she would and that she is already... after several more minutes of fucking around with her and telling her that she better be ready for him, i decided that i couldnt go through with it, and i fucked her myself...

i couldnt sleep that night, and i felt like i was upset about something.. i was fine seeing her fuck around, i really was, but i told her the next morning that i was upset that i didnt feel included... not while at the club nor while back at home... she also told me that she was only "playing along" with the intention to actually fuck him and that she knew that i wouldnt go get him.. i tell you friends, the look in her eyes meant business and she wanted to fuck.. i think she got defensive on several "facts" that happened after i told her i was upset that i wasnt included enough, and she shelled up (its her style of fighting as im more confrontational and she is more meek).. i ensured her that i was not mad at her, but rather upset that i was not included.. she also told me that the reason why she didnt pay enough attention to me while at the club was because since we're so new to this, she didnt know how much attention should be shown to any party involved (even though later she admitted that she had no intentions of messing around with him before it actually happened).

while talking about the issue further, she said that she didnt think she should do that with Friend again because she was worried that either he would become too attached or that he wouldnt seek the "friendship" of another woman if we went out and the 3 of us continued to mess around.. she also said that if there are too many expectations from any party, then if she didnt want to do anything, she'd feel pressure...

also, she said that she wanted me to be the person to "get some" this time so she could test her ability to take it in or not...

yesterday, however, she seemed to go back to a "if there arent expectations and the moment was right, i cant say that i wouldnt make out with Friend again if you were ok with it.."

hmm

ok.. so i guess my questions are these:

do you think she really wanted to go further but since she felt like i was pushing too much, she backed off?

do you think she really wants to mess around some more but doesnt want to tell me because she thinks i'd get upset again?

since Friend is vanilla and has NO clue about this lifestyle, do you think his involvement with us could deter him from seeking out his own mate(s)?

how do i avoid feeling left out? (i must admit that i am about 30-40 lbs heavier than i normally am due to a myriad of emotional issues currently going on with me, and i'm usually the confident one who has no problem flirting with women or men alike)

she told me, while we were talking, that she wished Friend would have told her that her attempts to dress sexy and trendy had worked and that she looked cute.. later on however, she rebuked that statement and told me that she just wished "any guy" would have commented on the cuteness of her outfit.. why did she go back on what she said?

she told me that when they were making out and i tried rubbing her legs and stomach, she felt like if i put her my hands on her then she felt like she should switch to me.. is this out of guilt? obligation? etc?

anyway, i hope you guys liked the story and any feedback would be appreciated

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by blue.freckles

do you think she really wanted to go further but since she felt like i was pushing too much, she backed off?

It's possible. You said she told you she was just playing along and didn't intend to go further. When you tried to undo her bra that may have been pushing past the boundary she had already set. She was wearing spanks (those things ain't easy to get off) so just with that I'd say she didn't intend much to happen.

Add to that that the guy was sick drunk, and if she was thinking straight at all she wouldn't have wanted to go further. I'm surprised she still wanted to kiss him after that. :ick:

Originally Posted by blue.freckles

do you think she really wants to mess around some more but doesnt want to tell me because she thinks i'd get upset again?

It's possible. You say she gets defensive and clams up when you address issues. You know her better than we do. The only way to find out the answer to this is to work on the communication issues that are here and get past them.

Originally Posted by blue.freckles

since Friend is vanilla and has NO clue about this lifestyle, do you think his involvement with us could deter him from seeking out his own mate(s)?

The fact that friend is
1. a friend
2. vanilla

are definately issues you should look into more. Take some time and read through some of the threads in the archive regarding swinging and friendship. You'll find that it is often a bad mix. If things take a wrong turn, are you willing to lose a friend over this?

As far as it detering him from seeking out his own mates/ getting attached to your wife. That's a possibility with any single (whether or not they are previously vanilla) and something to be careful of.

Originally Posted by blue.freckles

how do i avoid feeling left out? (i must admit that i am about 30-40 lbs heavier than i normally am due to a myriad of emotional issues currently going on with me, and i'm usually the confident one who has no problem flirting with women or men alike)

perhaps you would both be better off if you put your focus on finding other couples rather than a single guy. It seems that most of your issues center around the fact that you are dealing with a single guy (therefore she is getting attention and you are not, and there is no female for you to get attention from).

It is very hard for anyone to split their attention equally between two people. So many people have the wrong idea about threesomes... guys especially... seem to think that if they are with two girls that it's all about them getting attention. On one hand it can be, but on the other hand, think about it, how hard would it be for you to really give attention to two different women? For that reason, I've always said that when in a threesome situation like that it really should be about the middle person. If it's two guys and a girl then it's up to the guys to be giving her attention and make sure they are getting what they need. If it's two (straight) girls and a guy, then it's much simpler (dick and mouth).

If you want more attention in this type of situation then you have to take action to get it. If she's dancing too much with another guy then go out there and cut in. If she's spending too much time/attention on someone else then go out there and get her attention.

Originally Posted by blue.freckles

she told me, while we were talking, that she wished Friend would have told her that her attempts to dress sexy and trendy had worked and that she looked cute.. later on however, she rebuked that statement and told me that she just wished "any guy" would have commented on the cuteness of her outfit.. why did she go back on what she said?

Let me translate this for you: "Honey, I wish you would have told me that my attempts to dress sexy had worked and commented on how great I looked."

Originally Posted by blue.freckles

she told me that when they were making out and i tried rubbing her legs and stomach, she felt like if i put her my hands on her then she felt like she should switch to me.. is this out of guilt? obligation? etc?

See my above statement about trying to split attention. If you can cope with what I've said and agree that if it's a threesome with two guys and a girl that they should be giving her attention and she shouldn't feel like she has to split hers, then tell her that and let her know that she can just relax and enjoy the attention without feeling like she has to be splitting her attention. Unfortunately, from all that you've said, I don't think you can agree with that. And she was probably right to feel that by you putting your hands on her you were looking for attention from her. From everything you've said that appears to be the case.

You have to talk to her openly and find a way so that you can both enjoy without anyone feeling obligated or over-stressed.

[blue.freckles]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

It's possible. You said she told you she was just playing along and didn't intend to go further. When you tried to undo her bra that may have been pushing past the boundary she had already set. She was wearing spanks (those things ain't easy to get off) so just with that I'd say she didn't intend much to happen.

Add to that that the guy was sick drunk, and if she was thinking straight at all she wouldn't have wanted to go further. I'm surprised she still wanted to kiss him after that. :ick:



It's possible. You say she gets defensive and clams up when you address issues. You know her better than we do. The only way to find out the answer to this is to work on the communication issues that are here and get past them.


The fact that friend is
1. a friend
2. vanilla

are definately issues you should look into more. Take some time and read through some of the threads in the archive regarding swinging and friendship. You'll find that it is often a bad mix. If things take a wrong turn, are you willing to lose a friend over this?

As far as it detering him from seeking out his own mates/ getting attached to your wife. That's a possibility with any single (whether or not they are previously vanilla) and something to be careful of.



perhaps you would both be better off if you put your focus on finding other couples rather than a single guy. It seems that most of your issues center around the fact that you are dealing with a single guy (therefore she is getting attention and you are not, and there is no female for you to get attention from).

It is very hard for anyone to split their attention equally between two people. So many people have the wrong idea about threesomes... guys especially... seem to think that if they are with two girls that it's all about them getting attention. On one hand it can be, but on the other hand, think about it, how hard would it be for you to really give attention to two different women? For that reason, I've always said that when in a threesome situation like that it really should be about the middle person. If it's two guys and a girl then it's up to the guys to be giving her attention and make sure they are getting what they need. If it's two (straight) girls and a guy, then it's much simpler (dick and mouth).

If you want more attention in this type of situation then you have to take action to get it. If she's dancing too much with another guy then go out there and cut in. If she's spending too much time/attention on someone else then go out there and get her attention.



Let me translate this for you: "Honey, I wish you would have told me that my attempts to dress sexy had worked and commented on how great I looked."



See my above statement about trying to split attention. If you can cope with what I've said and agree that if it's a threesome with two guys and a girl that they should be giving her attention and she shouldn't feel like she has to split hers, then tell her that and let her know that she can just relax and enjoy the attention without feeling like she has to be splitting her attention. Unfortunately, from all that you've said, I don't think you can agree with that. And she was probably right to feel that by you putting your hands on her you were looking for attention from her. From everything you've said that appears to be the case.

You have to talk to her openly and find a way so that you can both enjoy without anyone feeling obligated or over-stressed.

Julie, thank you so much for the input! I was dying to get some answers from anybody willing to help.

I understand what you are saying regarding the "3rd wheel" kind of arrangement, and with it being a friend, I could see how it could definitely lead to some sticky situations.

I agree that we have communication issues to work on; I need to be more forward about my expectations and she needs to be more upfront about her boundaries as well as her expectations are.

When I used to be more self confident, I probably wouldnt have second guessed her not showing me enough attention, because I would have taken her cues to flirt with other women.

I think there are three main issues here: not enough communication, messing around with a vanilla friend and my own self image.

I think that we work on all 3 of the aspects, this could be a very good thing.

[Willing29]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

I'm surprised she still wanted to kiss him after that. :ick:

I was going to say it sounded like a 'Penthouse Letter' until the getting sick and just continuing part. Just not for me i guess tio each their own

[Edison Carter]

Susan here-- No one can see past the choices they do not understand.

You made these choices and you need to understand why you made them. Then, and only then, can you get past them to what you really want.

[lustylearning]

Blue.freckles, I find myself wondering what your goal was when you went out. You were clearly uncomfortable about the way things were progressing with Pink and Friend. Nevertheless, you continued to encourage a progression - sit in the back, put on the stockings, take off the bra... This feels to me like a test or a control game of sorts. So again, I wonder, what was your goal?

[knb2004]

I see three red flags that I'd suggest you address before trying again, most of which have already been hit at least a little.

1- Swinging with friends. While it occasionally works out, it also frequently leads to problems.
2- Swinging with vanillas. They don't understand how this works. As newbies, you don't really get it either. Blind leading the ultra blind.
3- I don't think you guys have communicated enough about this. You should both know, and agree to your boundaries. You shouldn't have to wonder if you crossed a line, you should know where the lines are before you start. You shouldn't have to have an issue with feeling left out, as that is something that should be discussed, at least to a point, ahead of time.

You guys need to talk, the most important thing is you must both be on the same page with regard to your boundaries. Beyond that talk some more, then talk some more, then talk some more.

Then go to a club or a meet-n-greet where you can find bona-fide swingers.

[NCfuncouple98]

Facts:
1.

Friend became handsy with all the ladies in our group, but seemed extremely focused on Pink... the night continued this way for several hours...

2.

i jokingly said "Pink, you should sit in the back of the car and make out with Friend"

3.

he popped the recling button and she just laughed and leaned back... he leaned forward and they started making out, her smiling the entire time

4.

i said to Pink "go put some stockings on"..

5.

stupid me says "well, if you're just going to let him play with them without seeing them, you're being too unfair" so i reached up and unclipped her bra...

You encouraged this all night. If YOU were uncomfortable at any point during the evening, you had the responsibility to speak up and stop it.

Obviously there was way, way too much alcohol involved in this night. My husband and I enjoy alcohol, but when it's at the point that people are getting sick? Time to pass out. It should've stopped there.

Maybe she did want to go further, maybe she didn't. Only she knows the answer to that, and you two need to talk about this until you are both talked out.

A couple that gets engaged in swinging should be doing it for mutual pleasure and excitement. Sounds like you were encouraging it, because you wanted to see her pleasure, but you weren't really ok with it happening. That's called "Taking one for the team". Good thing you did not invite him into the bedroom that night, you were not ready.

If there are issues, between the couple, or personally, then you are not ready for swinging. You mention self-esteem issues. You need to work those out before you invite someone else into the bedroom. You've watched your wife make out with another man, and you did not feel good after. How are you going to really handle watching her give someone else a blowjob? Someone else inside of her? Her on top of him? Those are questions you both need to ask of each other, and think about honestly, before you decide to take this any further.

Lastly, listen to everyone else when they say "No friends", and "No Vanillas". My husband and I are currently working through that exact issue with MY best friend, and it involves emotional attachment and jealousy from the "Friend", and I'm afraid it's going to end badly, and this man has been a very close friend of mine for 3 years. DON'T DO IT!

Continue to talk this out and communicate, without any alcohol, and take baby steps from here. And I highly recommend looking for couples, not singles at this point. Do it together.