First Swing and Other Couples Issues

[De and Ci]

We have been going to a local off-premise couple's club for nearly a year now. We really enjoy cutting loose and playing around with my wife without worring about getting kicked out. We had discussed swinging before and assured each other we wouldn't be jealous or insecure of each other if we decided to. Anyway this couple invited us to their place. We were new to this and decided to follow their moves-we assumed they knew what they were doing. We were on the bed, the woman went down on my wife (my wife not bi-enjoys it only to the extent that the guys like it). The other wife then went to the bathroom and started barfing (we had been drinking). The other dude and I started playing with my wife-she was really getting turned by 2 guys-the guy was commenting on how wet my wife was. His wife came out of bathroom and started getting bitchy with her husband. She left room-her husband left us and they started arguing in the bathroom, She stomped out and left room, he apologized to us--said she "was embarrassed about getting sick". We left. They had invited us to their New Year's party that took place a few days later. We went-huge party-had good time, they invited us to stay after party, we went to their bedroom again-the other woman went down on my wife again-wife thought it was ok, but when I played with my wife she squirted all over the place (she gets very wet and comes easily). Other dude did not touch my wife this time. The women were playing with each other I was playing with my wife, motioned to dude that he could play with my wife as well-He didn't touch my wife and started acting bored and left for hot tub. So us 3 got up as well-monkey see, monkey do (apparently his wife had issues) and joined the hubby in hot tub along with a few other couples who were there at the afterparty. We chatted awhile, My wife and I started getting hot again and I asked the husband if they would like to join us in bedroom. He said they would stay in hot tub. We got back and were 69ing each other. He and his wife came back into room-He said we that was ok for us to continue. They went into bathroom and started arguing with each other again, they then left room and went downstairs. We were confused-we got dressed went downstairs-they were crashing out in living room. Told them we had good time at party-his wife was all nice and stuff and hoped she could see my wife again. I told hubby they needed to have more fun-he agreed. We left and even though the action with other couple was pretty lame-we went home and fucked off and on all day-most sex we had in years. I guess the idea of what we did was a big turn for both of us. The question I have is-did we do something wrong? The couple invites back for some action-we really get in to it and are enthusiastic but they don't seem to enjoy themselves that much-we didn't how to act for sure but I don't think we did anything wrong. Did we take it to literally? Any feedback would be appreciated.

[TeamSoBe]

I can't interpret what happened with the other couple but I can say that this whole thing looks really familiar to me. Unfortunately this is the sort of roller coaster that you ride when you do your experimentation while one or several of you are drunk. Before you get bored and skip my post, note that we have partied a lot while we were drunk and I'm not necessarily proud of it but I do have some experience to relate.

The sad reality for some people is that they just can't get past their inhibitions and really start to party until everybody has at least started to drink. It's like the drinking gives people an excuse to cut loose. I personally hate the fact that we have to do it that way, but the few times that I have tried staying sober it didn't really help much. I had a wonderful conversation with a really hot girl one night instead of fucking her because her husband and my wife had both passed out before we could get to the good part.

Also keep in mind that booze makes people lose control over their emotions, and it can make people go through bizarre emotional states that they don't even consider when they are sober. One time we were progressing into a great full-swap thing with another couple (the same one I mentioned above, fortunately we managed to make most of our mistakes with each other and keep it in the family) and I went into a crazy stupid drunken whiney sweaty rage because the guy was fucking my wife. Well yeah, of course he was fucking my wife, I was in the middle of starting to fuck his wife when I noticed that and flew off the handle. Fortunately it was with old friends who were fully aware that my particular kink is watching guys fuck my wife, so they just stopped the party and didn't take me too seriously, but if it had been with a new couple then we would have alienated ourselves from them forever. Intoxication is the one single reason why we have yet to have a successful foursome with another couple.

If you care about my totally unqualified opinion: My personal take on what happened is that at least one of them has some issues that they are trying to work through. They are both still interested in exploring and they don't want to scare you away so they try to conceal their little fights from you. You are feeling the vibe and it's making you uncomfortable.

The only way that you will ever really find out is by asking them. If you are close enough to them that you can get hammered together and fuck in front of them then it seems like you should be able to ask relatively simple questions like "Do we make you uncomfortable?" or "Do you really want to continue to explore together?" Asking them questions like that might also help to reassure them that you're concerned that their relationship stays healthy.

People here will stomp on me for saying this, but if you're the types that ever use ecstasy then all that you have to do is roll with them once and within 45 minutes you'll know exactly what has been going on and how they feel about you. Suggesting drug use to a person in a situation already complicated by alcohol abuse is maybe not very PC but it's true and the E won't cause any of the frustrating problems that you're having right now.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by TeamSoBe
The only way that you will ever really find out is by asking them. If you are close enough to them that you can get hammered together and fuck in front of them then it seems like you should be able to ask relatively simple questions like "Do we make you uncomfortable?" or "Do you really want to continue to explore together?" Asking them questions like that might also help to reassure them that you're concerned that their relationship stays healthy.

I'll agree with most everything TeamSoBe had to say with the exception of this.

De and Ci,

In my opinion, yes you did swing....BUT you had two very bad swing experiences with a couple that does not have all their P's and Q's in check. Personally, I wouldn't have given this couple a second chance after the first incident. Knowing that the booze was a factor the first time, I can see where you would have given it a second chance though. But the thing is....nothing was any better the second time. In my opinion I don't think you have anything to address with them anymore except a polite "I don't think we are compatible". You don't really need to know their reasons for their actions, it doesn't matter. They shouldn't in my opinion be swinging. Unless these people are good friends of yours, then you owe them no explanations for your reasons to not swing with them and unless they were friends of yours prior to swinging, I don't think you need to be concerned about their relationship staying healthy.

I am going to assume though that you met these people at the club you attended and they are only lifestyle friends and not *normal* friends. If I am correct, I can bet that they have had the same problems with other couples there and many are aware of it.

Now I have a couple of questions.

You said that your wife is not bi and only allowed this woman to do go down on her for the guys. Why is she doing this? Why is it that the two times that you were with this couple that this is basically all that occured?

The incidents that you described make it seem as it is one-sided and all for the other wife or not at all for anyone else. Is that what you are looking for in a swing relationship? Think about what you two are looking for in another couple and seek those that are compatible with you. They are out there and there are plenty of them. I say move on and find someone with a healthy relationship that shares your same desires.

Okay so it was more that a couple of questions...lol

Lori

[austxmark]

I agree with Lori totally. There are to many good couples out there to settle for a couple who is clearly not what you are looking for.

It might also be helpful to talk to the other couple and spell out what your intentions and expectations are ahead of time so there will be less confusion.

As far as TeamSoBe's recommendation on drug use I would be wary of that. I mean if you are willing to go down that road, just get some rohypnol and spike their drinks and be done with it. The point of swinging is that its between CONSENTING adults. Its hard to believe someone is consenting when they are drugged.

Thats my two cents, and its woth every penny.

[TeamSoBe]

Yes yes, I know it was a dumb thing to say, I get to say stupid things every once in a while too damnit.

I think that Lori's right, it all comes down to whether these people are good friends of yours or not. Our past is full of rocky times like yours with good friends of ours, so we were always ready to give each other a second or third or fourth chance when somebody would go and do something embarrassing. If you just met these people for the purpose of swinging and you barely know them then Lori's definitely right, cut them loose and let them work out their problems on their own.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by austxmark

As far as TeamSoBe's recommendation on drug use I would be wary of that. I mean if you are willing to go down that road, just get some rohypnol and spike their drinks and be done with it. The point of swinging is that its between CONSENTING adults. Its hard to believe someone is consenting when they are drugged.

I don't think TeamSoBe was recommeding drug usage, I think he was just offering another point of view of how things can pan out in that sort of atmosphere. Only TeamSoBe can answer that one.

I didn't address this portion of his post as it is something that I don't have the ability to address responsibly for personal reasons. The only thing I can say responsibly about those that use recreational drugs whether it be Ecstasy or Viagra, is don't let me know about it and don't die in my presence. I've seen enough death in the last two years to last me a life time.

Lori

[RnKin Fla]

Just my take on the situation:

This couple that you partied with sounds like so many of the others that R and I have run across in our travels on the internet. Husband wants to, wife doesn't. She is doing things just because he wants her to.

It appears to me that you met them at a club, and are not close friends with them other than for swinging purposes. If this is the case, then I think you should definitely cut them loose.

They are harming their own relationship, and are a definite threat to your own self-esteem. You don't need those kind of poisonous people in your lives!

There are tons of other well-adjusted, happy couples out there, just waiting to meet you. It just takes time and effort to find each other.

Good luck!

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by RnKin Fla
Husband wants to, wife doesn't. She is doing things just because he wants her to.

Interesting, I didn't see this until you pointed it out. In all probablity that is what is going on here.

Great Insight.

Lori

[TeamSoBe]

I wouldn't have thought of that either, since it's the woman that's driving things forward in so many of the couples that we know. Wouldn't she have been more obvious about it if that's what was going on?

I just went back and re-read the story with the hypothesis in mind that the wife is being pressured into something that she doesn't want to do. It doesn't look like that hypothesis is consistent with the story to me. The other wife took a pretty active role at least two different times, it was the husband that kept pulling back. It was the husband that aborted by skipping out to the hot tub and avoiding the fun, and it was the husband that was reluctant to get involved again.

Here's another theory: the other wife got hammered the first night and ended up getting sick. While she's off being drunk and sick her husband is in bed with some couple that they had never played with before. He was coming on to some naked girl instead of taking care of his own wife. She was hurt, she let him know that she was unhappy with him, but they wanted to keep exploring so they tried to keep the fight subtle. The whole issue becomes a thorn that keeps husband from getting too involved on future visits.

As with any story involving booze and swinging failures, this story has happened to us. We were with a couple, I was pretty sober but the other three were all hammered silly. We were trying to get into a hot tub and the other husband got in. Two drunk girls wandering around a house, I'm trying to round them up and motivate them into the tub. Husband in a drunk stupor started convincing himself that there was a party going on without him, and by the time I managed to get the girls to the hot tub he was pissed off and throwing a drunken tantrum. They didn't do such a good job of keeping the whole thing subtle, never did anything with them after that.

Too much booze really is a bad thing when you're swinging. Any time actually, but especially swinging.

[4sum]

One of our first experiences was with a couple that had previously had a few MFM encounters with a friend of the husband. The couple had had a wonderful time but wanted to have more of a relationship and so they went looking for a couple and found us. They were very nice people and we tried every which way from sunday to make her comfy, but every time her husband laid a hand on K, she started to meld down. We tried same room, separate room and soft swing, but every encounter would end up with a tearful angry exchange between them and us feeling awful for having been, to some extent, the cause of it.

I don't know what ever became of it for them. Hopefully they just dropped the idea and went back to what they were more comfortable with. For some people, no amount of revvving up is enough to get them over their own insecurities no matter how hard they try to convice themselves otherwise.

I'm sure the couple here is an iteration of the above story. There's some communication on their end that isn't going on, or is being misunderstood. It's not up to you to figure this out for them. Lick your wounds and move on.

Cheers!

[RnKin Fla]

TeamSoBe, I hadn't thought of the fact that the wife might be the driving force. That is an interesting take on the problem, and I think you are probably right.

hmmm....

[TeamSoBe]

Originally posted by 4sum
There's some communication on their end that isn't going on, or is being misunderstood. It's not up to you to figure this out for them. Lick your wounds and move on.

And there you have it, there's the magical nugget of wisdom that we have been trying to produce. That's exactly correct, and summed up so succinctly. Very impressive, I wish I were so efficient with my words.

This is a pretty cool advice column format that this forum has going on. It took five of us responding before narrowing in on the nugget of wisdom, but eventually somebody hit it perfectly.

[Handyman69]

We have also been involved in a relationship with another couple. Rules were set but not followed. The woman seemed to want to continue but after attempts just wasn't able to handle it and ended with problems between her and her husband. We would just get the door closed with no real answers. We don't have any hard feelings to them to this day. Actually would like to continue on as just platonic friends but they are unable to separate the two.

We have learned to watch for the signs and if any appear, we politely back away. We aren't into this for head games. Also we try to stay away from excessive alcohol use. We are in it for the fun and want to enjoy it.

Rhonda

[De and Ci]

Originally posted by TeamSoBe

Here's another theory: the other wife got hammered the first night and ended up getting sick. While she's off being drunk and sick her husband is in bed with some couple that they had never played with before. He was coming on to some naked girl instead of taking care of his own wife. She was hurt, she let him know that she was unhappy with him, but they wanted to keep exploring so they tried to keep the fight subtle. The whole issue becomes a thorn that keeps husband from getting too involved on future visits.

I believe you got it right. When we met, it was the hubby who approached my wife and said his wife wanted to met her. His wife came over and started chatting and flirting with my wife. During the 2nd go around-the hubby didn't touch my wife at all and seemed to make a point of it-and it was clear he wasn't excited this time. His wife did actually play with me for little bit-but it wasn't much. I do think now that her getting sick the first night caused everything to go downhill after that. We have no hard feelings at all for the other couple-they were very nice to us and we would go out with them for a drink anytime.

I guess my wife and I were looking for more M on F action with the FF action being more or less incidental. Him and I getting after my my wife then his, full swap, etc. We do realize now that we are very secure with each other, I wasn't jealous at all and it turned me on like crazy seeing the other guy play with her and my wife loved the idea of 2 guys on her. My wife told me it would turn her on to see me fuck another woman. We are not that disappointed-considering what we did the next day. I guess we need to discuss beforehand with potential couples what we want and expect.

Thanks everybody for the great advice.

[De and Ci]

Originally posted by OhioCouple


You said that your wife is not bi and only allowed this woman to do go down on her for the guys. Why is she doing this?

She is doing this because she wants to! Since we started going to couple's clubs you always see the women dancing and playing with each other. She is always getting hit on by other women!
At first she was shy but since then, its been our perception thats whats expected and its just the icebreaker for the other stuff. The guys like it and she does like the Male attention. Myself-I think woman on woman in porn movies is boring-I'm not a woman and I can't relate-when I see a woman going down on a man it turns me on because I can relate to what that guy is feeling. In person-FF action is a little more exciting and I like it when she's playing with the other women because I see her as being "a hot, sexy bitch". Its mostly a mental thing