First Swing experience. Alot of damage done!

[cuzzeyesaidso]

Ok now here is something I'm wondering. How did the husband not know she was't having a good time? We know from a bad experience or two......or four, that it's almost impossible for one half of a couple (especially if they've been married for 14 years), to not recognize that their spouse wasn't being satisfied. Same goes for the wife of the unidentified couple.

When we play with another couple, one of our favorite parts of the evening is watching each other in action. Are we the only ones?

My wife and I had different opinions about this whole thing and the thing that we agreed on for sure is that there were problems in their marriage to begin with. Swinging was just the last nail in the coffin.

Oh and one more thing. Is it common for folks to call up the sitter and ask about the kids when they are out for the evening? Our sitters have our numbers and are very good at using a phone. If something is wrong and they can't handle it, they let us know. UNLESS we are in certain clubs that don't allow cell phones, and we have to request to use the house phone, we let the sitters do what we're paying them for. We don't want to babysit the babysitter.


Jon

[LFM2]

Originally Posted by cuzzeyesaidso

Ok now here is something I'm wondering. How did the husband not know she was't having a good time? We know from a bad experience or two......or four, that it's almost impossible for one half of a couple (especially if they've been married for 14 years), to not recognize that their spouse wasn't being satisfied. Same goes for the wife of the unidentified couple.

When we play with another couple, one of our favorite parts of the evening is watching each other in action. Are we the only ones?

My wife and I had different opinions about this whole thing and the thing that we agreed on for sure is that there were problems in their marriage to begin with. Swinging was just the last nail in the coffin.

Oh and one more thing. Is it common for folks to call up the sitter and ask about the kids when they are out for the evening? Our sitters have our numbers and are very good at using a phone. If something is wrong and they can't handle it, they let us know. UNLESS we are in certain clubs that don't allow cell phones, and we have to request to use the house phone, we let the sitters do what we're paying them for. We don't want to babysit the babysitter.


Jon

Dito

I was wondering the same thing. No, you're not the only one that ENJOYS watching your partner.

As far as the babysitter goes, I haven't had to hire one for years. Our youngest in 16. Before that, his sister usually stayed home with him. I don't ever recall having to call home to see if things were OK. Things aren't that different with sitters these days, are they?

[Tybee Swing]

Originally Posted by cuzzeyesaidso

Ok now here is something I'm wondering. How did the husband not know she wasn't having a good time? We know from a bad experience or two......or four, that it's almost impossible for one half of a couple (especially if they've been married for 14 years), to not recognize that their spouse wasn't being satisfied. Same goes for the wife of the unidentified couple.

I've been thinking the same thing - they stayed in the same room, how could he not see? This is what the husband had been whining and nagging to get for years, and apparently when he finally got it, he was oblivious to everything else. Maybe if he'd been sensitive to his wife and much more aware of her, the outcome would have been at least somewhat different? Even if the wife wasn't forthcoming with her motives of going into this and her distaste for it, he had to at least have sensed hesitation on her part. If he wasn't a complete moron, he would have maintained some eye contact with her, watched to see how she was doing, on their first time out.

Originally Posted by cuzzeyesaidso

When we play with another couple, one of our favorite parts of the evening is watching each other in action. Are we the only ones?

You're not the only one. This is our favorite part. We get extremely turned-on watching each other. For us, it's the best part. In fact, we prefer same-bed whenever possible, to have more contact: eye contact, touching or sexual contact, while engaging with others. It's much hotter for us, this way. We also both like sitting back to watch each other. If something wasn't feeling right, we'd know it. We stay tuned into each other, and have since the very first time. Is there any other way? Not for us.

Originally Posted by cuzzeyesaidso

My wife and I had different opinions about this whole thing and the thing that we agreed on for sure is that there were problems in their marriage to begin with. Swinging was just the last nail in the coffin.

Totally agree. I don't think that either one of them were really hearing the other, and they both had their own agendas to push. There were manipulations on both sides.

[DBL D]

Originally Posted by Charger500

So why didn't the baby sitter answer the phone when you called?

She was asleep...coulda been a late nite...or they don't have caller ID and the sitter didn't answer. Strange thing to do and then also a funny thing to add to the story. What difference would it have made to the outcome?

This is becoming like a murder mystery...Try to solve the crime!

Male D

[zzzzzz1]

thank you for your reply...everything i said was absolute...we get married then change the rules...thats ok...but when we try to bring someone else into our train of thought ...we have to be prepared to accept NO....he wasn't prepared...he should have done his homework...i still say its all his fault ....remember she was reacting...he was the driving force...not her...she simply gave in to it.

by the way i married my high school sweetheart in 1979...she passed away in 2004...hmmm thats a pretty good couple dynamic...how many years have you been with your partner?...the fact that you think not even one person should understand her point of view, tells me that you are an advocate...how far would you go to save your marriage? she should not be treated so badly...she opened herself to the idea, even though she didnt want to...i know it looks bad, but she was doing her best...she may have made the wrong decision, but that is all...counseling? NO...she just married the wrong guy (maybe)...if he wanted to have other women...he should have told her before he married her...shes just a good woman, who wanted to live a different lifestyle...isnt that ok....or do you want everyone to be a swinger (smile)...

[intuition897]

Mmkay. zzzzzz1, you sound like a troll. Your tone is argumentative, and many of your points appear to be oppositional to the whole philosophy of swinging. One of the main principles is self-accountability, where you remove your reactionary response and accept blame where blame is due. Was there anything she could've done to avoid the hurt that was caused? Uh...YEAH!

Originally Posted by zzzzzz1

i still say its all his fault ....remember she was reacting...he was the driving force...not her...she simply gave in to it.

She is not responsible for her husband's bad behaviour, but she sure as hell is responsible for her own. So he pushed. But it's his fault that she didn't stick to her principles and she eventually gave in? Not only gave in, but played the martyr in order to punish him. Yes, she was reacting, and that - right there! - is the problem. She was reacting instead of thinking. "...she simply gave in to it." Simply? This is the biggest part of the problem, not a minor detail! She had the power to end this folly at that very point, yet she decided to use it to her advantage to punish her husband...because she was hurt that he wanted other women. Now, I still think her husband is an ass for pushing her like that. Poke a dog with a stick enough times and you shouldn't be surprised when you get bit. If it was her husband on here, don't doubt that he'd have his butt chewed right off for being so selfish and callous. But it's her we're talking to. And my harshness in my assessment of the situation is no indicator of how much sympathy I feel. I feel very badly that anyone has to be stuck in that kind of situation. I truly do. But I get a little frustrated when people complain about being in a destructive rut like this, yet they refuse to help themselves; they just want a pat on the back and to be told "Everything will be okay, you did nothing wrong, it's all your husband's fault." So your post gave her exactly what she sought, but it won't help her one bit. All that does is put a bandaid on a spurting artery. If she wants things fixed, she'll have to do it herself, and it won't be pleasant because she'll have to face up to her own mistakes, too...not just telling her husband about his.

Originally Posted by zzzzzz1

by the way i married my high school sweetheart in 1979...she passed away in 2004...hmmm thats a pretty good couple dynamic...how many years have you been with your partner?

Been married 12 years with two kids. No, not 25 years yet, but I see no reason at all to think we won't be together. Not when marriage is a blessing instead of a chore.

Originally Posted by zzzzzz1

...the fact that you think not even one person should understand her point of view, tells me that you are an advocate...how far would you go to save your marriage?

Oh...about as far as it takes to swallow my foolish pride and question my own actions, motivations and intentions. It takes so much less effort to simply blame someone else. And who says we don't understand her point of view?? Perhaps the reason some of us are so forthcoming about our opinions of it, is because we can directly relate to that very point of view! You don't suppose we were all born swingers, do you? Oh no. Many of us were as "vanilla" as they come.

Originally Posted by zzzzzz1

she should not be treated so badly...she opened herself to the idea, even though she didnt want to...i know it looks bad, but she was doing her best...she may have made the wrong decision, but that is all...

She's not being treated badly. We're just being honest with her, and we do this for her own good. Kudos to her for even considering swinging; many people do not allow themselves to even consider anything but strict monogamy. We promise, the finger-wagging WILL stop once she gives us an indication that she understands what we're trying to tell her. It is out of concern for her and her husband that we respond this way, not because we enjoy pissing in someone's corn flakes.

Originally Posted by zzzzzz1

counseling? NO...she just married the wrong guy (maybe)...if he wanted to have other women...he should have told her before he married her...shes just a good woman, who wanted to live a different lifestyle...isnt that ok....or do you want everyone to be a swinger (smile)...

Hmmm. Well...I believe that it is possible for any two people to be in love with one another, because love is a choice we make, not something we wait expectantly for. However, I'd agree with you that it's still unwise to pair two people together whose basic goals and personalities are constantly at odds with one another. I guess the question now is whether or not there is a point to their marriage, considering how different their outlooks/goals are. But you can't blame swinging for that; these outlooks/goals were already there, hidden, before this situation revealed them. And no, we don't want anyone who isn't into it to try swinging, because this kind of drama is the result. And it really is like someone pissing in the pool of potential play-partners. It means everybody's got to get out of the pool while they drain it and clean it. :rollseyes In other words, the other couple likely had a crappy evening, too (or at least the other guy did). If these two had had their act together before they jumped in, no doubt everyone would've had a fabulous time. But instead, one couple dragged their emotional baggage into a situation that shouldn't have had any.

[DBL D]

Part of my mind is trying to convince me that she must have felt she had the World's Most Indestructable Marriage..."Let's see how he handles this morta(r) Or (l) attack...He He!"

Sheesh!

Male D

[Amanda69]

I only agreed to do it because he wouldn't let it go, and I didn't think of any other way to stop his want/need to do it.

The famous first and last mistake. Anyone who does this just because they are talked into it or who talks someone else into it is just asking for trouble...

[bigjoehd]

Originally Posted by zzzzzz1

you did the right thing...you are right about him not giving up...even if you said NO...he would have gone behind your back and did it anyway....this way you brought it to the top...now its in his face and yours, and you people have to do SOMETHING about it...you may have avoided a lifetime of misery with a cheating husband to go along with a disfunctional family...good girl! now he has to do his job! he married you and he knew what that meant...take one for the team? Man, you better take this one on the chin...do whatever she needs you to do until she forgives you...never stop apologizing...or you will leave a legacy of a broken family, that will last forever...Step up and make it right...Sweetheart, none of this is your fault...however, you must realize that, in a way, he was trying to save his marriage... you have to show trust in him...he probably thought it was the right thing to do and you must always consider the possbility that this will always be something he wants to do, even if he never does it.

what a line of s#!t your spewing out ! your post reads like something out of the old ann landers column or an oprah episode.

you speak of a legacy of a broken family caused by the husaban,this marrige was in big trouble way before this whole episode even began,it dont take a mental giant to read between the lines to see whats really going on here if this actually happened EXACTLY the way she said it did which i highly doubt.

the way i see this whole mess is this episode is her way at getting back at her husband for something that she's not letting us know about,this whole mess just dont add up,what this whole deal sounds to me like is that THEIR marrige has been on the rocks for quite a while & they agreed to do this in hopes of bringing back the feelings they once had for each other & all it has done for her is harden an allready hard & vindictive attitude twords their marrige.

as far as im concerned she got exactly what she was looking for out of this & thats ammunition for the upcomming battle,shame on her.

[TwoLittleBirds]

Poor zzzz1. We're attacking him more than the problem we're reviewing. As far as I'm concerned, you can mention whatever you think is right. (not that you need my permission!) But welcome to the forum, and congratulations on diving right into the storm!

But zzzz, it takes two to make a marraige work, right? In this case, I think it's taking two to "dick it up". Hubby for being clueless, and wife for doing something I usually saw girls doing in my younger dating days: They expect you to be a mind reader. I'm sure there are guys who did the same.

Anybody remember that from your younger years, or was it just me? It's a passive agressive type thing where GIRLFRIEND really doesn't want Mexican food, but they say, "Fine. Let's eat Mexican food for, like, the 50th time in a row." And being somewhat clueless to the emotions of others at that age (not to mention the art of sarcasm), the BOYFRIEND (me) would say, "Yay! Mexican food! Thanks, honey." Then you get to the restaurant, she orders nothing but a glass of water and sits there looking pissed off. Then I say, "Is something wrong, honey?" and, of course, she says, "Nope. I'm fine."

And Clueless Boyfriend goes back to his burrito.

As I matured, I solved this problem. (And no, it wasn't by marrying a woman who likes Mexican food. )

The things I've learned on this board act as reinforcement for what I already knew back when we got engaged: Communicate. Care about your partner as much as you care about yourself. Be honest about your feelings. Keep your priorities straight; what is number one goal? What's number two or three goal? I haven't met anyone on this forum who's number one goal is swinging. Not one person here. Interesting and instructional, don't you think? Oh, and because I think it's the thing stressed on Swingersboard the most, I'll say it again. Communicate.

Mr. Little Bird

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by zzzzzz1

thank you for your reply...everything i said was absolute...we get married then change the rules...thats ok...but when we try to bring someone else into our train of thought ...we have to be prepared to accept NO....he wasn't prepared...he should have done his homework...i still say its all his fault ....remember she was reacting...he was the driving force...not her...she simply gave in to it.

by the way i married my high school sweetheart in 1979...she passed away in 2004...hmmm thats a pretty good couple dynamic...how many years have you been with your partner?...the fact that you think not even one person should understand her point of view, tells me that you are an advocate...how far would you go to save your marriage? she should not be treated so badly...she opened herself to the idea, even though she didnt want to...i know it looks bad, but she was doing her best...she may have made the wrong decision, but that is all...counseling? NO...she just married the wrong guy (maybe)...if he wanted to have other women...he should have told her before he married her...shes just a good woman, who wanted to live a different lifestyle...isnt that ok....or do you want everyone to be a swinger (smile)...

Well, I guess the previous answers you got from other members cover up most of what I had to tell you.

I just want to call your attention to something pertaining the dynamics of a forum like this one.

There are couples that participate togheter in the forum, both under the same nickname (signing up as the Mr. or the Mrs.) or under two different nicknames. But most of the members doest it on their own.

Then, when someone ask for advice about a situation, he/she is providing only one half of the story. Even when being face to face with someone we could be proficient enough to make a good guess about the other half of the story, in this written media we lack the tools to do the same. So, we shouldn't give for granted what's the other half of the story just from this one, because we risk to make a HUGE mistake by reinforcing the missunderstanding the OP has about his/her own problem. And I believe this is a perfect example of this.

I'd invite you to read some of my other posts when someone asked for advice. I take care of talking ONLY about the OP, and about the information provided by the OP, and I AVOID assuming the OP properly addressed the intentions of everyone's else mentioned, nor the the OP properly understand theyr behavior, moreover because the OP is the one who's showing the problem's "symptom" to the point of coming here to ask for the advice of a bunch of strangers, thus I may assume the OP is in pain and the pain is likely to cloud the OP mind.

Should the OP husband were here giving us his half of the story, telling us his wife framed him by engaging into a swinging activity after being pushed to be able to punish him, I would be disregarding all he said her wife did to punish him, and criticizing him for being so pushy that he leaded her to take this "punishment measure". And if indeed he were feeling punished here, then, that he asked for it and deserves it.

But you should realize this is theoretical, the fact is, this theory would assume this guy is here telling the same story, the same way. But he isn't here, right? So, I'd rather save whatever I could say about him until he actually show up asking for advice.

In the other hand, I have the impressiong that you may believe this is some sort of "swingers support group" where people gather to feel better about "the problem". Swinging isn't "a problem", nor it was the problem for the OP, but it can be seen as a amplifier of what a couple already have, the good and the bad things.

We're not here to make people "feel better", but to help them think, understand, and isolate the problems that may lead them into troubles inside the lifestyle. It'd be pointless to give the OP a "cyber hug", the OP is supposed to have friends and people around to hug him/her for real, and because of the closeness these people oppinion is likely to be less "asceptic" than the one the OP could get from here, so I try to be as "asceptic" as I can.

So, I won't tell her ANYTHING about her husband, but about HERSELF, and the fact is, she screwed things up big time and she're facing three options here:

1) get divorced.
2) keep married by playing dumb.
3) keep married by working on the problem.

The options 1 and 2 are the easiest ones, she doesn't need our advice for this matter, nor I am interested to provide such an advice. I will advice with the third option in sight, and for this option, she needs to stop whining, she have to stop looking around for people supporting her mistakes, and she have to take responsibility for her own actions. She may not want to do it, I know, but I won't lie to her just to "help her feel better", but I am telling her: do it, or else pick options 1 or 2.

Your advice, in the other hand, seems to have the option 2 in sight, and option that wouldn't stick to the standards this forum memberst stand for, and I'd say, the standards most swingers stand for. It was because of this that I was harsh on your post, and that I questioned your marital experience.

[zzzzzz1]

Originally Posted by intuition897

Mmkay. zzzzzz1, you sound like a troll. Your tone is argumentative, and many of your points appear to be oppositional to the whole philosophy of swinging. One of the main principles is self-accountability, where you remove your reactionary response and accept blame where blame is due. Was there anything she could've done to avoid the hurt that was caused? Uh...YEAH!



She is not responsible for her husband's bad behaviour, but she sure as hell is responsible for her own. So he pushed. But it's his fault that she didn't stick to her principles and she eventually gave in? Not only gave in, but played the martyr in order to punish him. Yes, she was reacting, and that - right there! - is the problem. She was reacting instead of thinking. "...she simply gave in to it." Simply? This is the biggest part of the problem, not a minor detail! She had the power to end this folly at that very point, yet she decided to use it to her advantage to punish her husband...because she was hurt that he wanted other women. Now, I still think her husband is an ass for pushing her like that. Poke a dog with a stick enough times and you shouldn't be surprised when you get bit. If it was her husband on here, don't doubt that he'd have his butt chewed right off for being so selfish and callous. But it's her we're talking to. And my harshness in my assessment of the situation is no indicator of how much sympathy I feel. I feel very badly that anyone has to be stuck in that kind of situation. I truly do. But I get a little frustrated when people complain about being in a destructive rut like this, yet they refuse to help themselves; they just want a pat on the back and to be told "Everything will be okay, you did nothing wrong, it's all your husband's fault." So your post gave her exactly what she sought, but it won't help her one bit. All that does is put a bandaid on a spurting artery. If she wants things fixed, she'll have to do it herself, and it won't be pleasant because she'll have to face up to her own mistakes, too...not just telling her husband about his.



Been married 12 years with two kids. No, not 25 years yet, but I see no reason at all to think we won't be together. Not when marriage is a blessing instead of a chore.


Oh...about as far as it takes to swallow my foolish pride and question my own actions, motivations and intentions. It takes so much less effort to simply blame someone else. And who says we don't understand her point of view?? Perhaps the reason some of us are so forthcoming about our opinions of it, is because we can directly relate to that very point of view! You don't suppose we were all born swingers, do you? Oh no. Many of us were as "vanilla" as they come.



She's not being treated badly. We're just being honest with her, and we do this for her own good. Kudos to her for even considering swinging; many people do not allow themselves to even consider anything but strict monogamy. We promise, the finger-wagging WILL stop once she gives us an indication that she understands what we're trying to tell her. It is out of concern for her and her husband that we respond this way, not because we enjoy pissing in someone's corn flakes.


Hmmm. Well...I believe that it is possible for any two people to be in love with one another, because love is a choice we make, not something we wait expectantly for. However, I'd agree with you that it's still unwise to pair two people together whose basic goals and personalities are constantly at odds with one another. I guess the question now is whether or not there is a point to their marriage, considering how different their outlooks/goals are. But you can't blame swinging for that; these outlooks/goals were already there, hidden, before this situation revealed them. And no, we don't want anyone who isn't into it to try swinging, because this kind of drama is the result. And it really is like someone pissing in the pool of potential play-partners. It means everybody's got to get out of the pool while they drain it and clean it. :rollseyes In other words, the other couple likely had a crappy evening, too (or at least the other guy did). If these two had had their act together before they jumped in, no doubt everyone would've had a fabulous time. But instead, one couple dragged their emotional baggage into a situation that shouldn't have had any.

intuition 897...you called me a troll? ok if you say so...im a troll..if you say so...im whatever you want me to be...but i would never call you out of your name...i am developing an argument...therefore it would be the act of argumentation, not argumentative at all, i am fond of sex, not arguments...remember we are talking about them..not us..we have already made our decision...wait! actually, i am brand new to the pursuit, but not the thought...he should have known that it takes two...but he pushed anyway...id like to think that if you asked your partner to do it and he said NO, that you would have respected his decision...she could care less about the philosophy of swinging...like i said, you're an advocate... i agree that she should share the responsibility, but there wasn't much said about his responsibility...imagine your partner asking you to eat s##t because it turned him on...what woud you do? leave? well she decided she did not want to break up her marriage because of his fetish, so she tried it, didnt like it and did not have the emotional academics to resolve HER problem...

12 years of marriage? thats good...congrats...you know 892 i have to beg to disagree with your statement about who we love...love chooses us...we dont choose love...we can't...love is a gift to us, a gift that must be given...its the reason we are here...just my take on that....can you imagine life without your partner...there are reasons beyond your control that could separate you and your husband...please dont take anything for granted...marriage is a blessing that comes with chores...you may hate your chores or love them...but there are chores in anything that is successful...we must maintain....it sounds like you have the perfect relationship with yours, indeed you are blessed...

welcome to cyberspace...i dont know who im talking to until i see that person.. for all i know it could be the husband thats writing and getting all this feedback...so, he will know what to do (smile)...smart man, if so...because the raw feedback from the posted comments, seemed to be genuine...i like that...so, if he planned on doing it..he won't now...

you know, if everybody knew what to do all the time, it would change the world drastically...she didnt know what to do, period...therefore she did her best...shes not any of the things she was called...she is all/any of us making a mistake and being misunderstood...

good talking to you...wish me luck

p.s. it took me all day to answer all your responses...i laughed when i saw how many...
i had a great time answering each one of them...your punctuation, grammar and writing skills are impressive....

[zzzzzz1]

Originally Posted by TwoLittleBirds

Poor zzzz1. We're attacking him more than the problem we're reviewing. As far as I'm concerned, you can mention whatever you think is right. (not that you need my permission!) But welcome to the forum, and congratulations on diving right into the storm!

But zzzz, it takes two to make a marraige work, right? In this case, I think it's taking two to "dick it up". Hubby for being clueless, and wife for doing something I usually saw girls doing in my younger dating days: They expect you to be a mind reader. I'm sure there are guys who did the same.

Anybody remember that from your younger years, or was it just me? It's a passive agressive type thing where GIRLFRIEND really doesn't want Mexican food, but they say, "Fine. Let's eat Mexican food for, like, the 50th time in a row." And being somewhat clueless to the emotions of others at that age (not to mention the art of sarcasm), the BOYFRIEND (me) would say, "Yay! Mexican food! Thanks, honey." Then you get to the restaurant, she orders nothing but a glass of water and sits there looking pissed off. Then I say, "Is something wrong, honey?" and, of course, she says, "Nope. I'm fine."

And Clueless Boyfriend goes back to his burrito.

As I matured, I solved this problem. (And no, it wasn't by marrying a woman who likes Mexican food. )

The things I've learned on this board act as reinforcement for what I already knew back when we got engaged: Communicate. Care about your partner as much as you care about yourself. Be honest about your feelings. Keep your priorities straight; what is number one goal? What's number two or three goal? I haven't met anyone on this forum who's number one goal is swinging. Not one person here. Interesting and instructional, don't you think? Oh, and because I think it's the thing stressed on Swingersboard the most, I'll say it again. Communicate.

Mr. Little Bird

im just trying to see what swinging is all about...its getting even more interesting, knowing that the intellectual level is so high...intuitive892 wore me out...

[zzzzzz1]

Originally Posted by bigjoehd

what a line of s#!t your spewing out ! your post reads like something out of the old ann landers column or an oprah episode.

you speak of a legacy of a broken family caused by the husaban,this marrige was in big trouble way before this whole episode even began,it dont take a mental giant to read between the lines to see whats really going on here if this actually happened EXACTLY the way she said it did which i highly doubt.

the way i see this whole mess is this episode is her way at getting back at her husband for something that she's not letting us know about,this whole mess just dont add up,what this whole deal sounds to me like is that THEIR marrige has been on the rocks for quite a while & they agreed to do this in hopes of bringing back the feelings they once had for each other & all it has done for her is harden an allready hard & vindictive attitude twords their marrige.

as far as im concerned she got exactly what she was looking for out of this & thats ammunition for the upcomming battle,shame on her.

wow! i guess you are very opinionated...thats cool...you disagree...but a line of shit?...not...just a different opinion...however, i do share your cynicalness...we really dont know enough about their situtation or the veracity of the statements to come to a definitive conclusion...

thanks
have fun

[JustAskJulie]

I think it's funny how so long after the OP has even responded, people are arguing points on a situation they don't even know all the details of... because we never know all the details in someone else's situation.

I won't say what the differences are, but I will say I've heard a different version of this same situation from the OP. The reason I dind't reply in this thread was because it differed so much from the version she gave me privately. Basically, she left a few details out in this public version (which I hope she returns and fills in) as well as some of her own feedback/reaction to the situation.

Again, I hope the OP returns and fills in the blanks that she knows she left in this story. In the meantime, there's no point in debating the topic.