Our first swaps - Unresponsive partners - HELP!

[BloomoCoupleFun]

We have well fallen off what hubby calls 'Mount Newbie' and have now had two full swaps in as many weeks. But in doing so we've confronted a problem we're not sure what to do about. One that is briusing my man unfairly.

Both swaps were preceeded by vanilla meets, flirting, touching, etc. And this after exhaustive chats, emails and pic swaps. So all partners had spoken, seen each other, and expressed their attraction. In each case my guy had extensive chats with the other female and there was tangibly mutual attraction between them and he. Or at least they said so, and we believed them.

Yet in both swaps the female of the other couple was completely unresponsive. Like staring at the ceiling, not making eye contact, and not showing any postive or negative response to the oral, penetration, etc that was going on. Both would kiss and "make out" with great motivation before and during the play. He says both were decidedly 'wet' and receptive -- but about as boring and inactive as you can get. I know because I watched them. Even when he would shift for deeper penetration in the missionary position, the women would just lie there with eyes closed or staring off into space. Awk!

This has left our male somewhat ego damaged. Nothing seemed to work for him. His oral technique got zero response. The women would not barely touch him without being asked, and no postions were changed during sex without him specificially asking the female. I heard him say stuff like "is doggy style ok?" and "would you like to be on top?" At all times the females agreed and appeared happy -- still giving him the impression all was OK and proceeding normally -- at least to them. Unsure what was going on, he stopped for "are you alright?" and "are you sure you are ok?" solicitations more than was needed. During the play he lost his erection once or twice just from sheer lack of interest from them. Each time it only took the female touching him to get the blood flowing again immediately -- but each time he had to specifically ask to be touched. And this happened consistently over 4+ hours of play in each session.

To make it almost worse -- after the sessions both women reported back their great satisfaction with the play and indicated interest in meeting again for a re-match!! BOTH said he was a wonderful lover and how pleased and satisfied they were!!!

Now he feels like a "lousy lover" (he's NOT!) or that he is unattractive (he's NOT!). Where he would normally climax 3-4 times in a 3-4 hour session, with these two he was challenged to provide just one climax for each. The experiences have left him hesitant about trying again. And although I did not have that good a time in the first session (NO means NO guys!! - not try it again!!) the second session was wonderful for me. Had my first effortless orgasm from oral within the first 30 minutes, and the same pace was kept almost the whole night -- for me. But while that is happening for me, he is struggling to please a non-responsive woman.

You name it - he tried it. Being gentler, being rougher, being directive, being passive, taking breaks, tender touches -- the poor guy worked his ass off with an increasing worried and hurt look on his face. When the second one was over and the couple had left, I know I saw tears in his eyes (he says no) at one point. I could tell he was feeling rejected, feeling very unattractive. He is a hell of a sensitive person and confused by it all, and I don't blame him. He deserves better. He was very attracted to each of the women, maybe that made it worse?

What gives? Have we just fluked into 2 bad lovers or are we seeing symptoms of "wife manipulation" from our partners? I say that if it happens again all play stops and we hit the door. To me it means that someone is/was simply not being honest. Is that wrong?

Most important -- what should we do to ensure this does not happen again next time? He says if we push the issue during negotiations it will sound like he's asking for a "mercy fuck", and that spirals him downward again. His ego is all mush right now -- HOW DO I HELP HIM GET IT BACK?

Are we alone in this situation?

B

[Nymph an' Satyr]

The times where we have experienced the disinterested lover were cases where we believe that the wife was doing it to make the husband happy. At least that's what we think was going on. And definitely an erection killer...

[twoplayful2]

Asking too many questions might factor into the problem a little bit. 4-hour sessions might be part of it (maybe we're just lightweights though lol). Could be true that the other guy is pushing things, not both of them together. It definitely looks like there just isn't any real compatibility though, whatever the reason. In looking back on it when we started in the lifestyle I think the first few women I was with weren't all that responsive or interesting either. And my wife wasn't too interested in the guys she was with, for that matter, though she acted out the part okay. But we just moved on and moved on. There are tons of couples out there with different styles, preferences, etc, and I think more are not going to be a match than are. Even if those two women weren't interested in your guy, it only means that they werent compatible sexually. And if they weren't interested, I think the fact that they continued (and even want to get together again) even though they did little but stare at the ceiling doesn't say much for them or their skills.

[LikeMinds321]

It could be that these two women are used to having sex with their husbands in a very passive and unresponsive way. This would tell me that their behavior had nothing to do with how Mr B performed.

I had some of these same concerns with my first male partner. He wasn't verbal, didn't even make a sound when he orgasmed. I was concerned he wasn't pleased with me. Yet, afterwards, he said he had a great time and was eager to see me again.

We liked this couple so much that we decided it was best to tell him about the things that I would like him to do during sex that would give me greater pleasure. He has since been more vocal and tells me what's on his mind, which turns me on all the more. I, in turn, try to fnd out what I can do that will make him happiest. We learned that we each had a different style in bed but that we could make some changes for each other that has made our play better. We continue to play with them on a regular basis.

On the other hand, as has been suggested, the women may be going along just to please their husbands. In this case, I'd discontinue playing.

Mrs B - Was there anything about how the husbands behaved with you that would lead you to think they are used to wives who just lay there? In reveiw, you might see some signs there.

If you really like these people, and would want them as friends even if you didn't have sex, then it may be worth the time to open up and talk with them about techniques that can enhance your play. If you don't feel they would handle your honesty, I'd say move on and look for more compatible playmates.

Mr B sounds like a great lover! Make sure you tell him I said so.

LM

[Vespertine]

Originally Posted by LikeMinds321

Mr B sounds like a great lover! Make sure you tell him I said so.

Dito

I was thinking the same thing!

[Vantabulous]

Is it possible, unlikely as it seems, that you ran into two ladies, back-to-back, who were afraid to be very demonstrative in bed for fear of offending their husbands? Perhaps even afraid to let themselves express the pleasure they felt during the encounter that they expressed afterward?

If you absolutely, positively promise to take this in the proper light, I would agree whole-heartedly with LM. Mr. B went "above and beyond" and deserved better than to walk away feeling "insufficient".

(I'm keeping this post away from Mrs. Van. If she finds out that Mr. B will go to those lengths to please a woman, it could jeopardize our "vanilla" status! )

Van

[graygo98]

Originally Posted by BloomoCoupleFun

To make it almost worse -- after the sessions both women reported back their great satisfaction with the play and indicated interest in meeting again for a re-match!! BOTH said he was a wonderful lover and how pleased and satisfied they were!!!

B

I think that there is just a lot of bad sex happening out there. Most people don't know its supposed to be fun, or how to make it so.

The two women that you met probably just don't know any better. But they can learn. Sounds like they were fortunate to run into you guys, Mr. B does sound like a "wonderful lover." Might just be their first step on the road to learning just how amazing a gift our bodies really are and how great sex can be.

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by Vantabulous

Is it possible, unlikely as it seems, that you ran into two ladies, back-to-back, who were afraid to be very demonstrative in bed for fear of offending their husbands?

This is such a great point!

I was concerned about my pleasurable response to another man, and whether it would hurt Mr LM's feelings if I was screaming in delight from what another man was doing to me!

I nearly had forgotten that I worried about this, we have long since overcome that threat to our play, but it is a real concern for many people starting out.

LM

[intuition897]

I particularly agree with Vantabulous and LikeMinds. There's no such thing as the perfect couple; we all have our demons to deal with and it shows when you get such an intimate glimpse into the private lives of others. I wondered myself if maybe these women were afraid of 'cutting loose' their inhibitions. Maybe they were somehow intimidated? I understand that he is a very giving lover, but I know that I tend to be better at giving than receiving myself, and maybe these women (like myself) don't know exactly what to do when they're in the spotlight so to speak. Deer in the headlights effect. Women get stagefright too; it's just a little less obvious. I liked the suggestion to communicate with these play partners and let them know that the Mr. would really appreciate some feedback so he knows how he's doing.

Now when it comes to finding future play partners, I'd suggest searching specifically for 'spirited' or 'passionate' partners that really love giving 100% in the bedroom. In your ads, specify that you're looking for energetic couple(s) that are very verbal or responsive. Some people are just more reserved than others! Could be that you coincidentally ran into two such women one after the other.

B, make sure you let Mr. know that I, too, think he sounds like a terrific lover. He just needs to be himself with these women, and be honest and fair to himself with what he needs to make the experience enjoyable. It sounds like he's going WAY out of his way to make sure they're having a good time; the least they could do is reciprocate.

[TNT]

There are soooo many reasons why a woman would not be responsive, ranging from not knowing any better, to being afraid of letting her husband know how much she is enjoying herself, to just not being a very verbal lover.

We have both experienced people who were not as vocal or energetic as we are, especially with each other . However, even in those situations we have always tried to let the person we were with know that we thought they were doing a good job, by doing so it seemed to bring them out of their shell a little and they started responding in a way we were accustomed to.

It seems like Mr. B did everything he possibly could and there is no need for him to be beating himself up over this. All anyone can do is ask what can I do to make it a more pleasurable experience for you...it's up to the other person to answer.

[BloomoCoupleFun]

Mr B here, red faced and all sheepish-like from the kindness shown by folks on this board. Mrs B is sweet in intention to my embarassment sometimes. We read through all the answers together and learned a lot we had not considered before. LM shocked us both the idea of thinking about signs from the other guys behavior and seeing that cool wiggling Vespertine pic proved it further. There were not any signs but better yet was the idea of simply expressing the problem to them. Then all the added twists in responses and very nice flattery, thank you all very much for your opinions. And we thought that Van might have pointed to a good logic.

I had a long chat with the other female tonight and think that the sage GreyGo was closest. But it got worse after I explained my problems. Until I did she thought we had a wonderful time and that everything was just great and saw no problems at all until I said there were. Then she got mad, then she got hurt. It did not go entirely too well and was a bit like sticking your willy in a light socket. So on one hand I feel better from hearing all these flattering things said about me but worse for peeing on her parade and hurting her feelings. She said she came and it must not have been noticed and she was right and all I could think was wanting to ask when it was. I didn't and felt cruel for thinking it. Never seen such a passive lack of response but now think that was the pinnacle of passion for her. Thank God for Mrs B who never leaves a doubt.

This is just one damned weird situation to be in. Hurting other peoples feelings is not a good thing to do so now I wonder if I should have not said a word to her and feigned pleasure over it all.

Mr B.

[twoplayful2]

I've heard people ask "did you come?" right after the fact, while the couples were winding it all down. Sometimes it's just not obvious and I think the question mainly comes off as simple concern that the other had a good time also. But it does seem that it could go the wrong way (as apparently happened with you) so I've kind of avoided the question myself when I was in doubt. I definitely wouldn't continue with it beyond the question right after the fact though, but maybe that's just how I am. It seems like over-talking this stuff isn't a great thing, especially for me Without some sort of feedback while you're going at it, even just body language would be good, how much can you do? But if it's me, I chaulk it up to incompatibility and move on. It's not my place to get her to change, and I'm not feeling too comfortable about having sex with her like it is. This doesn't really help with your current problem at all though so I'd just say live and learn. And good luck with that

[graygo98]

Originally Posted by twoplayful2

It seems like over-talking this stuff isn't a great thing, especially for me Without some sort of feedback while you're going at it, even just body language would be good, how much can you do?

... over-thinking and agonizing over every detail isn't a great thing, either. Your responsiblity is to yourself and your SO. Making sure that you both have the best time imaginable is Job 1.

It's the other person's responsiblity to let you know, verbally or, even better, non-verbally, what floats their boat. Of course we all try to please our partners and get a real charge out of it when we do. But, if they don't seem to have enjoyed themselves , don't beat yourself up. Especially if they didn't act to help themselves.

[johnintx1]

This is why we want to only do 3ways,so one of us dosent feel left out,or end up with the short end of the stick,...so to speak.
With a 3way it seems the we have one less person to worry about getting mad or jealouis.
We can control what we do,but cant control what others do or dont do.
We also dont have to wonder what happened in the other room. We are both there sharing the same thing at the same time.

[midnight hour]

I tend to agree with either the woman were scared their husbands would know they were having a great time, or are not very verbal at all. Me now I am a verbal woman....I have been accused of letting the neighbors know so even if I am not as verbal as when I am with Mr. Midnight they at least know I am there...and alive...
Kudos to your husband for trying so hard...it must have been mentally tiring more then anything...

midnight hour